Solo release thread (spoilers)

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tezunegari
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Re: Solo release thread (spoilers)

Post by tezunegari » 2018-05-30 04:09am

PREDATOR490 wrote:
2018-05-29 11:31pm
Pointless Love Interest is going off to train under Darth Maul and be an apprentice... ?
Fuck knows because its a film about Han and Chewie
Wait what? Either something was lost in translation or I missed something.

When was PLI made Mauls apprentice?
During his cameo scene?

Maul promoted her to Dreyden Vos' position as his Lieutenant.
He never took her as apprentice, and she is never displayed as force-sensitive.

At least that's how I interpreted the scene.
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Re: Solo release thread (spoilers)

Post by eMeM » 2018-05-30 04:11am

Patroklos wrote:
2018-05-30 01:27am
Juubi Karakuchi wrote:
2018-05-29 03:05pm
That's quite plausible; probably more plausible than him surviving without assistance for an extended period. Unfortunately, the part about him escaping via the trash disposal system was apparently listed in 'Star Wars: Absolutely Everything You Need to Know'; and the Databank adds that Maul augmented himself while on Lotho Minor; where Savage Oppress found him ten years later.
Plausible? Hardly. Its not just that he survives bisection, he falls down a bottomless pit into got knows where. We have seen this happen before to a far more powerful and completely uninjured Sith. It didn't work out the same way. We saw it yet again with Luke, who needed multiple named protagonists to get him out of a similar situation. Granted he was not a Jedi by that time but he also wasn't nearly as badly injured either.
The difference here is that Luke's pit was actually bottomles, and Palpatine's ended in a reactor of a battlestation that exploded shortly after.

Maul was simply to angry to die, very much like Darth Sion.

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Re: Solo release thread (spoilers)

Post by Patroklos » 2018-05-30 05:06am

Palpantine did not die by power reactor explosion, something very different and unexplained but certainly force related happened to him mere seconds after falling and long before the DS reactor was destroyed. And no, we have no idea where that pit went to (not from the movie anyway). If it was to the reactor Palpantine would still be falling long after the credits were rolling, as it would take him roughly 30 minutes to fall from his position on the surface of the station to the center of the station assuming a normal atmosphere and constant gravity near 1g (we observe nothing other than this in every DS scene) and ignoring that the throne room is on a 100 story tall spire over the surface of the DSII.

Ironically given your comment Maul actually did fall into a pit having something to do with a power reactor, but probably not into a reactor.

Lukes pit wasn't bottomless either, he hit the bottom. They opened a door into a bottomless atmosphere (effectively anyway), but that was a separate thing.

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Re: Solo release thread (spoilers)

Post by eMeM » 2018-05-30 05:25am

Patroklos wrote:
2018-05-30 05:06am
Palpantine did not die by power reactor explosion, something very different and unexplained but certainly force related happened to him mere seconds after falling and long before the DS reactor was destroyed. And no, we have no idea where that pit went to (not from the movie anyway). If it was to the reactor Palpantine would still be falling long after the credits were rolling, as it would take him roughly 30 minutes to fall from his position on the surface of the station to the center of the station assuming a normal atmosphere and constant gravity near 1g (we observe nothing other than this in every DS scene) and ignoring that the throne room is on a 100 story tall spire over the surface of the DSII.

Ironically given your comment Maul actually did fall into a pit having something to do with a power reactor, but probably not into a reactor.

Lukes pit wasn't bottomless either, he hit the bottom. They opened a door into a bottomless atmosphere (effectively anyway), but that was a separate thing.
The fall not killing Palpatine only enforces the point that it's nothing like Maul's situation, unless we are to assume that a Dark Side user falling down a shaft will always be Force Disintegrated™.

Luke hit the bottom and survived, he only needed urgent saving because of the bottomless atmosphere still below him.

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Re: Solo release thread (spoilers)

Post by houser2112 » 2018-05-30 08:27am

eMeM wrote:
2018-05-30 05:25am
Luke hit the bottom and survived, he only needed urgent saving because of the bottomless atmosphere still below him.
From what I remember, Luke didn't fall all the way down that big shaft the fight took place in. He was sucked into a side shaft, which he then fell through to the bottom of Cloud City and clung to the weathervane/antenna thing.

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Re: Solo release thread (spoilers)

Post by Vympel » 2018-05-30 08:31am

PREDATOR490 wrote:
2018-05-29 11:31pm
Darth Maul - Why ? This is one of the most pointless scenes I have seen in Star Wars. Darth Maul adds nothing to this story and turns the entire film into a colossal WTF. This just feels like the people behind this KNEW Solo was shit and someone decided to pull a stunt that would generate some buzz. What creates more Buzz than pulling the reveal that a character that has been dead for a decade even though it makes no sense and really undermines the entire film.
But Darth Maul died in Season 3, Episode 20 of Rebels, and he's been confirmed alive since Season 3, Episode 14 of Clone Wars (i.e. January 2011). This isn't out of nowhere - there's a huge gap of time between his final appearance in Season 5, Episode 16 of Clone Wars and his first appearance in Season 2, Episode 21 of Rebels (i.e. after Solo).
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Re: Solo release thread (spoilers)

Post by Elheru Aran » 2018-05-30 10:29am

Vympel wrote:
2018-05-30 08:31am
PREDATOR490 wrote:
2018-05-29 11:31pm
Darth Maul - Why ? This is one of the most pointless scenes I have seen in Star Wars. Darth Maul adds nothing to this story and turns the entire film into a colossal WTF. This just feels like the people behind this KNEW Solo was shit and someone decided to pull a stunt that would generate some buzz. What creates more Buzz than pulling the reveal that a character that has been dead for a decade even though it makes no sense and really undermines the entire film.
But Darth Maul died in Season 3, Episode 20 of Rebels, and he's been confirmed alive since Season 3, Episode 14 of Clone Wars (i.e. January 2011). This isn't out of nowhere - there's a huge gap of time between his final appearance in Season 5, Episode 16 of Clone Wars and his first appearance in Season 2, Episode 21 of Rebels (i.e. after Solo).
I suspect we will see a lot of negative reactions from people who haven't watched either Rebels or Clone Wars and are thus unaware of Maul's survival in canon, and don't agree with the idea. While both were pretty decent shows (at least CW was, can't say about Rebels, this is just hearsay), it's not like they were HUGE shows, and aren't particularly well embedded in the pop consciousness.
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Re: Solo release thread (spoilers)

Post by Mange » 2018-05-30 10:55am

Elheru Aran wrote:
2018-05-30 10:29am
Vympel wrote:
2018-05-30 08:31am
PREDATOR490 wrote:
2018-05-29 11:31pm
Darth Maul - Why ? This is one of the most pointless scenes I have seen in Star Wars. Darth Maul adds nothing to this story and turns the entire film into a colossal WTF. This just feels like the people behind this KNEW Solo was shit and someone decided to pull a stunt that would generate some buzz. What creates more Buzz than pulling the reveal that a character that has been dead for a decade even though it makes no sense and really undermines the entire film.
But Darth Maul died in Season 3, Episode 20 of Rebels, and he's been confirmed alive since Season 3, Episode 14 of Clone Wars (i.e. January 2011). This isn't out of nowhere - there's a huge gap of time between his final appearance in Season 5, Episode 16 of Clone Wars and his first appearance in Season 2, Episode 21 of Rebels (i.e. after Solo).
I suspect we will see a lot of negative reactions from people who haven't watched either Rebels or Clone Wars and are thus unaware of Maul's survival in canon, and don't agree with the idea. While both were pretty decent shows (at least CW was, can't say about Rebels, this is just hearsay), it's not like they were HUGE shows, and aren't particularly well embedded in the pop consciousness.
I don't think the general audience with some SW experience and casual fans (or fans that doesn't care about cartoons/animated shows) are aware of that.

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Re: Solo release thread (spoilers)

Post by Elheru Aran » 2018-05-30 11:05am

Mange wrote:
2018-05-30 10:55am
Elheru Aran wrote:
2018-05-30 10:29am
Vympel wrote:
2018-05-30 08:31am


But Darth Maul died in Season 3, Episode 20 of Rebels, and he's been confirmed alive since Season 3, Episode 14 of Clone Wars (i.e. January 2011). This isn't out of nowhere - there's a huge gap of time between his final appearance in Season 5, Episode 16 of Clone Wars and his first appearance in Season 2, Episode 21 of Rebels (i.e. after Solo).
I suspect we will see a lot of negative reactions from people who haven't watched either Rebels or Clone Wars and are thus unaware of Maul's survival in canon, and don't agree with the idea. While both were pretty decent shows (at least CW was, can't say about Rebels, this is just hearsay), it's not like they were HUGE shows, and aren't particularly well embedded in the pop consciousness.
I don't think the general audience with some SW experience and casual fans (or fans that doesn't care about cartoons/animated shows) are aware of that.
...which is pretty much what I'm saying?
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Re: Solo release thread (spoilers)

Post by PREDATOR490 » 2018-05-30 11:10am

tezunegari wrote:
2018-05-30 04:09am
PREDATOR490 wrote:
2018-05-29 11:31pm
Pointless Love Interest is going off to train under Darth Maul and be an apprentice... ?
Fuck knows because its a film about Han and Chewie
Wait what? Either something was lost in translation or I missed something.

When was PLI made Mauls apprentice?
During his cameo scene?

Maul promoted her to Dreyden Vos' position as his Lieutenant.
He never took her as apprentice, and she is never displayed as force-sensitive.

At least that's how I interpreted the scene.
Dreyden Vos is play acting like a Sith complete with red veins when he gets angry and the double sided red daggers. Does this mean he is actually force sensitive and ACTUALLY an apprentice in the normally recognised Star Wars method - Probably not. However, the way this entire situation comes across is that Darth Maul is going to be personally training Kira much like Snokes line about completing Ren's training at the end of Force Awakens.
Vympel wrote:
2018-05-30 08:31am
PREDATOR490 wrote:
2018-05-29 11:31pm
Darth Maul - Why ? This is one of the most pointless scenes I have seen in Star Wars. Darth Maul adds nothing to this story and turns the entire film into a colossal WTF. This just feels like the people behind this KNEW Solo was shit and someone decided to pull a stunt that would generate some buzz. What creates more Buzz than pulling the reveal that a character that has been dead for a decade even though it makes no sense and really undermines the entire film.
But Darth Maul died in Season 3, Episode 20 of Rebels, and he's been confirmed alive since Season 3, Episode 14 of Clone Wars (i.e. January 2011). This isn't out of nowhere - there's a huge gap of time between his final appearance in Season 5, Episode 16 of Clone Wars and his first appearance in Season 2, Episode 21 of Rebels (i.e. after Solo).
TPM released in 1999. That is a decade for Darth Maul to be dead and he was meant to be dead. His survival is completely infeasible without back breaking writers fiat and pulling on the pathetic thin justification of villain not being dead until you actually see a fucking body or in this case, half of one.

The audience that has not watched the animations or the endless EU of SW that go into Solo are going to be thinking Darth Maul has been dead for nearly 20 years and ultimately it is out of nowhere. Darth Maul adds nothing to the story of Han and Chewie so it is completely pointless beyond shock value and it is exceptionally cheap value at that. In a film about Han and Chewie, the attention is drawn to Darth Maul and Kira. That is fundamentally stupid. Even if this is meant to be an on-going continuity build up A.K.A Thanos and the Infinity War, it is really stupid. Darth Maul's fate is sealed for anyone that has watched or paid attention to the EU so, they are going to generate an arc on film that has already been played out.
This undermines the animated series since it solidifies the impression that anything they do only really matters / happens if it is referenced or / and pulled into the movie market for mass consumption. What is going to happen if the movies decide to alter or overwrite the animated series ?
This is why setting this stuff in the over saturated PT / OT period is not a good idea let alone trying to generate some sort of mysterious ongoing character arc build up.

The only pay off this thread can have is in the Boba Fett film or in a Obi-Wan film since the animations have apparently sealed Darth Maul's fate anyway. The amount of characters to play with in this period are exceptionally limited without bringing in new ones which will inevitably suffer the same fate of Rogue One cast or need to be plot disappeared.

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Re: Solo release thread (spoilers)

Post by Elheru Aran » 2018-05-30 11:23am

...I really don't get where you're reading that Dryden Vos is 'play acting like a Sith'. The daggers are clearly some kind of vibro-weapon or powered weapon, Enfys Nest uses a similar blade on her stick. I also figured the marks on his face were either because he's some form of near-human or human-alien hybrid, possibly scars, which might also explain the red eyes.

Honestly the whole bit about Maul training Kira? I didn't get that at all. It was more like 'come to Dathomir, if you're going to run a crime syndicate you need to know the ropes, oh and I'm more badass than you so you need to obey me'.
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Re: Solo release thread (spoilers)

Post by tezunegari » 2018-05-30 01:06pm

Elheru Aran wrote:
2018-05-30 11:23am
I also figured the marks on his face were either because he's some form of near-human or human-alien hybrid, possibly scars, which might also explain the red eyes.
Vos is near-human according to "Solo: A Star Wars Story The Official Guide" and human according to StarWars.com.

And with the glowing scars I'D go with the near-human explanation as we have never seen a human force-user with such markings when using the force.
"Bring your thousands, I have my axe."
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"Bring your mighty... I am my own champion."
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Re: Solo release thread (spoilers)

Post by PREDATOR490 » 2018-05-30 02:02pm

Elheru Aran wrote:
2018-05-30 11:23am
...I really don't get where you're reading that Dryden Vos is 'play acting like a Sith'. The daggers are clearly some kind of vibro-weapon or powered weapon, Enfys Nest uses a similar blade on her stick. I also figured the marks on his face were either because he's some form of near-human or human-alien hybrid, possibly scars, which might also explain the red eyes.
The guy has a double edged weapon with red blades - Like Maul a Sith who runs around with a double bladed red lightsaber.
The guy is only seen in a clothing style and colour similar to how all the Sith operate.
The guy has emotional / anger issues that manifest physically on him - Like a Sith

The movie is making him into a cheap Sith knock-off which was stupid to begin with but with the reveal of Darth Maul. Vos is either mimicking Darth Maul / Sith intentionally or was groomed into this by Darth Maul.
Elheru Aran wrote:
2018-05-30 11:23am
Honestly the whole bit about Maul training Kira? I didn't get that at all. It was more like 'come to Dathomir, if you're going to run a crime syndicate you need to know the ropes, oh and I'm more badass than you so you need to obey me'.
Darth Maul is going to teach Kira the ropes... by training her since the film is completely vague and Darth Maul has 0% introduction or backstory. The exact training she is going to get is equally vague. That said, she has been in this organisation for years and met Darth Maul before since he knows her, openly speaks to her and the multiple dropped hints that she knows the Big Boss will not let Han get away. What training is Maul going to provide as an attack dog Assassin that Kira should not already have received as her martial arts, assassin, top henchmen job for years ?

How is Darth Maul going to teach her to run a crime syndicate if he has not been running it himself. Kira should know more about it than he does.
If Kira shows up in another film dressed in black, wielding a double bladed weapon then the common denominator in that training is going to be Darth Maul.

The bottom line is that this entire scene is a clusterfuck of stupidity and vagueness.

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Re: Solo release thread (spoilers)

Post by KraytKing » 2018-05-30 03:03pm

I just got that Dryden Vos may be related to the Vos clan of Kiffu. Might that be the reason for his face lines?
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Re: Solo release thread (spoilers)

Post by tezunegari » 2018-05-30 04:55pm

KraytKing wrote:
2018-05-30 03:03pm
I just got that Dryden Vos may be related to the Vos clan of Kiffu. Might that be the reason for his face lines?
Nope. Coincidence.
http://ew.com wrote:Vos is a familiar name to Star Wars diehards, since Quinlan Vos was a Jedi featured on The Clone Wars animated series (and a background figure in The Phantom Menace.) But, sorry, Lucasfilm says the similar last names are just coincidence.
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"Bring your mighty... I am my own champion."
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Re: Solo release thread (spoilers)

Post by Rogue 9 » 2018-05-30 05:12pm

KraytKing wrote:
2018-05-29 11:25pm
The lightsaber duel being short was the best part: it ended sooner. Their faces move too much. The voice acting is terrible, along with the dialogue. Why did Maul let them talk for so long? He should have attacked while they were talking, to get the drop on an old man. Why did the droid have a rocket engine? How did a lightsaber put out a fire? And for God's sake, why do they spend so much time staring at each other? It's worse than Luke at the end of TFA.

I could go on, but I think you get the picture.
How dare they have facial expressions, I guess? Maul clearly wasn't interested in a surprise attack; if that was his objective he'd have jumped them right away. What he wants to do is hurt Obi-Wan, not just kill him; he was prepared to let him rot in the desert until he figured out/sensed that he was protecting someone, prompting Obi-Wan to do some protecting (because Maul's obvious next move would have been to locate Luke and attempt to train him). The droid had a rocket engine for the entire run of the show. Besides, so does R2-D2. The lightsaber put out the fire because he didn't hit the fire. Watch it again; he threw a bunch of dirt onto it. They spend so much time staring at each other because flinging oneself headlong into combat against an experienced opponent without taking the measure of his guard is fucking stupid, and the animators were deliberately imitating duels from old samurai movies.

Anyway, yeah, most viewers aren't going to know Darth Maul was brought back in the TV shows. As mentioned, my brother started ranting about it being the worst Star Wars movie since the prequels after that bit; when trying to figure out where the movie is in the timeline he was stuck on trying to place it before The Phantom Menace and yelling about how Han is nowhere near that old until I pointed out that couldn't possibly be it because the Empire exists.
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Re: Solo release thread (spoilers)

Post by eMeM » 2018-05-30 07:05pm

PREDATOR490 wrote:
2018-05-30 02:02pm
Darth Maul is going to teach Kira the ropes... by training her since the film is completely vague and Darth Maul has 0% introduction or backstory. The exact training she is going to get is equally vague. That said, she has been in this organisation for years and met Darth Maul before since he knows her, openly speaks to her and the multiple dropped hints that she knows the Big Boss will not let Han get away. What training is Maul going to provide as an attack dog Assassin that Kira should not already have received as her martial arts, assassin, top henchmen job for years ?

How is Darth Maul going to teach her to run a crime syndicate if he has not been running it himself. Kira should know more about it than he does.
If Kira shows up in another film dressed in black, wielding a double bladed weapon then the common denominator in that training is going to be Darth Maul.

The bottom line is that this entire scene is a clusterfuck of stupidity and vagueness.
Those parallels are stretched thinner than the plot of TLJ.

There is nothing about training in the scene. Maul tells her to come to him to Dathomir to decide what to do next, and then ignites a lightsaber and says that they will work much more closely now.

First of all obviously they will be working more closely now that she answers directly to him, and while you may interpret his words as "I will train you to become a Sith" because why not, an explanation that is simpler and fits the context better is that he just threatens her, signaling that he knows what she told him was bullshit.

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Re: Solo release thread (spoilers)

Post by KraytKing » 2018-05-30 09:00pm

R2 having jets was just as stupid. But at least his didn't sound like solid fuel.

Humans don't move their faces nearly as much as Maul and Obi-Wan do in the scene. Sure, cheap animation, but it seems like it would be pretty easy to just not have them keep squinting. My problem with the face-off is how poorly handled it is; a good face off, with enemies sizing each other up, doesn't flick back and forth between headshots of way too much facial activity. I'm honestly not sure why you're defending it; I thought it was common knowledge that the show was worth about as much as Mickey Mouse Clubhouse, along with TCW.
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Re: Solo release thread (spoilers)

Post by Vympel » 2018-05-30 09:19pm

PREDATOR490 wrote:
2018-05-30 11:10am
TPM released in 1999. That is a decade for Darth Maul to be dead and he was meant to be dead.
It's 2018 now dude, not 2009. It's much closer to two decades. :)

(how do you know you're getting old? Someone says "10 years ago" and your mind goes to whatever date was actually 20 years ago for you :D )

Unless you're referring to the 1999-2011 gap, of course!
His survival is completely infeasible without back breaking writers fiat and pulling on the pathetic thin justification of villain not being dead until you actually see a fucking body or in this case, half of one.
Eh, I'm cool with it. This happened in 2011, not 2018, so its already been litigated.
The audience that has not watched the animations or the endless EU of SW that go into Solo are going to be thinking Darth Maul has been dead for nearly 20 years and ultimately it is out of nowhere. Darth Maul adds nothing to the story of Han and Chewie so it is completely pointless beyond shock value and it is exceptionally cheap value at that. In a film about Han and Chewie, the attention is drawn to Darth Maul and Kira. That is fundamentally stupid.
It's merely a sequel hook that comes at the end of the film, very common trope. It doesn't really undermine Han and Chewie at all.
Even if this is meant to be an on-going continuity build up A.K.A Thanos and the Infinity War, it is really stupid. Darth Maul's fate is sealed for anyone that has watched or paid attention to the EU so, they are going to generate an arc on film that has already been played out.
This undermines the animated series since it solidifies the impression that anything they do only really matters / happens if it is referenced or / and pulled into the movie market for mass consumption. What is going to happen if the movies decide to alter or overwrite the animated series ?
This is why setting this stuff in the over saturated PT / OT period is not a good idea let alone trying to generate some sort of mysterious ongoing character arc build up.
Wait, what? How does it undermine the animated series to put a character in a live-action film whose only alive because of the animated series? It does the opposite - it confirms that what happened in the Clone Wars actually happened and mattered as far as continuity is concerned.
The only pay off this thread can have is in the Boba Fett film or in a Obi-Wan film since the animations have apparently sealed Darth Maul's fate anyway. The amount of characters to play with in this period are exceptionally limited without bringing in new ones which will inevitably suffer the same fate of Rogue One cast or need to be plot disappeared.
Well if they had brains, they'd know to set the Boba Fett movie after ROTJ, not before.
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Re: Solo release thread (spoilers)

Post by Lord Insanity » 2018-05-30 09:22pm

Just saw the movie today. So that is two for two now that the random one-shot movies are far better than the numbered episodes. It is really amazing to me that Rogue One and Solo, despite being far more locked into a specific plot arc, are more fresh and original than the actual sequels. They both adhere to established canon far better too. The Clone Wars and Rebels references are great and really illustrates how seriously they take "equal with the movies" canon status.

While watching the movie they kept name dropping all the organized crime groups and I thought whoa they might actually make a Maul reference.


CLONE WARS SPOILER WARNING:


Maul upon finding out he has been replaced by Dooku set out to win back his master's favor. He systematically hunts down or brings into line all the various crime group heads such that they report directly to him. Palpatine senses this and shows up and flat out tells Maul; "You are no longer my apprentice, you are now a threat." Palpatine then utterly smacks him down. Maul asks why he doesn't finish him and Palpatine says he has other plans for him. For now he will keep his position while reporting directly to Palpatine.

END SPOILER:

So in Solo when the young random rebel-cell lady mentions that the organized crime groups are merely helping the Empire I was impressed they made such a subtle reference. Full on Maul cameo later in the movie was awesome.

Reading through this thread makes me surprised at how many apparently haven't watched the TV shows. The Clone Wars was everything the prequels should have been in the first place. I would certainly rank the TV shows as being better than Force Awakens and Last Jedi. Of course at this point I pretty much rank those two dead last below Phantom Menace so your mileage may vary.
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Re: Solo release thread (spoilers)

Post by houser2112 » 2018-05-31 09:52am

Lord Insanity wrote:
2018-05-30 09:22pm
Just saw the movie today. So that is two for two now that the random one-shot movies are far better than the numbered episodes.
I agree that the one-offs are better than the numbered episodes. I think that has a lot to do with Abrams directing 7, and Johnson needing to clean up his mess in 8 (and making it worse).
It is really amazing to me that Rogue One and Solo, despite being far more locked into a specific plot arc, are more fresh and original than the actual sequels. They both adhere to established canon far better too.
Now that I think about it, it actually shouldn't be surprising that the one-offs would be better BECAUSE they're more tightly constrained. They don't give the writer/director as much rope to hang themselves with (see: Episodes 7 and 8).
The Clone Wars and Rebels references are great and really illustrates how seriously they take "equal with the movies" canon status.
This is debatable. I haven't seen the entirety of either series, but what I've seen hasn't impressed me. I tried getting into Rebels, but Ezra being a whiny bitch turned me off.

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Re: Solo release thread (spoilers)

Post by Captain Seafort » 2018-05-31 10:25am

houser2112 wrote:
2018-05-31 09:52am
It is really amazing to me that Rogue One and Solo, despite being far more locked into a specific plot arc, are more fresh and original than the actual sequels. They both adhere to established canon far better too.
Now that I think about it, it actually shouldn't be surprising that the one-offs would be better BECAUSE they're more tightly constrained. They don't give the writer/director as much rope to hang themselves with (see: Episodes 7 and 8).
In a way, while it might appear that the one-offs are both more tightly constrained (since they have to be consistent with the existing canon around them), in practice they're far less so. The saga films have to follow on from the previous film, leave plot threads trailing, or both, which means the freedom to tell their own story is inherently restricted. The one-offs can get on with telling their own story in semi-isolation without having to worry about preceding or following films with a freedom that only ANH could surpass. Indeed, I think the greater restrictions imposed by the presence of saga characters as the focus of the film is the reason Solo isn't as good as Rogue One.
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Re: Solo release thread (spoilers)

Post by Vympel » 2018-05-31 11:26am

Solo's a better film than Rogue One. Rogue One has a kickass lizard brain Star Wars battle third act but there's little 'there' in the movie otherwise that speaks to me on a deeper level.

Heck, it's widely acknowledged to be best moment is Darth Vader arriving and killing a bunch of extras, which is as a matter of story and character totally irrelevant because all the characters we care about are already dead. This is in retrospect plainly bad writing papered over with - again - pretty effective action.

Also, I defy anyone to tell me that Krennic's final confrontation with Jyn Erso is at all as meaningful or satisfying as Han's final encounter with Beckett.

Not to mention, the likely seams between what Edwards shot and what Gilroy shot - way more obvious than whatever happened with Solo.
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Re: Solo release thread (spoilers)

Post by houser2112 » 2018-05-31 11:45am

Captain Seafort wrote:
2018-05-31 10:25am
In a way, while it might appear that the one-offs are both more tightly constrained (since they have to be consistent with the existing canon around them), in practice they're far less so. The saga films have to follow on from the previous film, leave plot threads trailing, or both, which means the freedom to tell their own story is inherently restricted. The one-offs can get on with telling their own story in semi-isolation without having to worry about preceding or following films with a freedom that only ANH could surpass. Indeed, I think the greater restrictions imposed by the presence of saga characters as the focus of the film is the reason Solo isn't as good as Rogue One.
The saga films are only constrained plot-wise in one direction. Before TFA, things were WIDE open. They could have started right after the Battle of Endor or wait X years. They could have started after the New Republic (or whatever entity fills the power vacuum left behind by the Empire) is established, or tell how that entity is established. The one-offs are pretty constrained in time and plot, comparatively. They didn't even HAVE to include any established characters, although that would have been a poor choice, IMHO.

As for comparing the one-offs to each other, I think Rogue One was more constrained than Solo at what questions the respective movies set out to answer (Rogue One: how did the Death Star plans get into Leia's hands?; Solo: how did Han Solo become the awesome dude he is?). With Solo, there are only a few constraints within the "legit" canon (the movies) that it must work in, but ultimately it's pretty wide open how it achieves its goal: Han worked for Jabba and botched a job, Chewie somehow became incredibly devoted to Han, 12-parsec Kessel Run (and maybe not even this needs to be included, because you could argue Han boasted on behalf of the Falcon and not himself), and Han won the Falcon from Lando "fair and square" (That it was via Sabacc isn't even mentioned. Come to think of it, is Sabacc even mentioned in the movies at all?). Rogue One is telling a more specific story, and there are tighter plot points that must be included as to how that question is answered. ANH's opening crawl provides a few ("Rebel spaceships, striking from a hidden base", "Princess Leia races home aboard her starship, custodian of the stolen plans"), and Vader provides a couple more ("Where are those transmissions you intercepted?" and "Several transmissions were beamed to this ship by Rebel spies.").

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Re: Solo release thread (spoilers)

Post by Captain Seafort » 2018-05-31 12:04pm

Vympel wrote:
2018-05-31 11:26am
Solo's a better film than Rogue One. Rogue One has a kickass lizard brain Star Wars battle third act but there's little 'there' in the movie otherwise that speaks to me on a deeper level.
Solo is a film about characters. The core of Rogue One was more a film about character types - showing the real rebellion, the hodge-podge of petty crooks, terrorists, Imperial deserters and professional insurrectionists who were responsible for the bulk of the fighting, and doing so without the idealism or glamour of Jedi and starfighter pilots.
Heck, it's widely acknowledged to be best moment is Darth Vader arriving and killing a bunch of extras, which is as a matter of story and character totally irrelevant because all the characters we care about are already dead.
With the obvious exception of Vader himself. If it had been any other character performing the exact same actions that scene would still have been pretty impressive, but it wouldn't have had the same impact as showing Vader truly being Vader for the first time since ESB - the impassive, relentless and unstoppable style that created such an aura around him both in-universe and out.
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe - Albert Einstein

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