Solo release thread (spoilers)

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Mange
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Re: Solo release thread (spoilers)

Post by Mange » 2018-07-06 02:58am

Elheru Aran wrote:
2018-07-05 06:10pm
Clone Wars is mostly Dave Filoni's baby with Lucas' blessing, is my understanding.
No, that was not the case. George Lucas was heavily involved with the show and changed Filoni's proposed format, that resembled what later became Rebels with a Jedi Master and his Padawan based on a ship run by a smuggler. Filoni wanted to stay away from the rest of the canon, but that changed when Lucas became actively interested in the show and made Anakin (to whom the Padawan was transferred) and Obi-Wan the main characters. Lucas also came up with specific storylines, had scripts rewritten and was more or less involved in every single episode. He also set limits on what the show could tell, but they would change.

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Re: Solo release thread (spoilers)

Post by Q99 » 2018-07-06 09:51am

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2018-07-05 05:03pm
Which just reinforces my view that the fundamental problem with the Disney era of Star Wars is not on the creative end, but on the executive end.

What's baffling is that Disney handled the MCU much better than this. Is it just different people overseeing the two franchises, and for some reason the MCU got all the competent execs?
People busy with the MCU don't have time for another huge franchise.

And in their defense, this is leeeagues above the DCCU, Dark Universe, or Transformers franchise. And IMO above Star Trek's management too.

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Re: Solo release thread (spoilers)

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-07-06 03:57pm

True. Its far from the worst.

As an aside, one thing I did enjoy in Solo was the revelation that Han could speak a bit of the Wookie language before meeting Chewbacca (indeed its key to his winning over Chewbacca and not getting killed a quarter or a third of the way into the film). Given how many people I've heard claim that Rey is a "Mary Sue" in part because she can speak to Wookies, without the film having explicitly shown that she has a Wookie friend. Because obviously, someone living in a multi-species, multi-lingual settlement* knowing more than one language is highly implausible, and requires extensive justification (at least if they have a vagina).

I don't know if Solo was doing a deliberate take-that at those fans, but I appreciated it nonetheless.

*Given the diversity of species and cultures in the galaxy, and the ease of rapid travel between them, I would actually guess that most people in the galaxy should realistically know at least a bit of multiple languages. This is in no way unrealistic- its pretty much the status quo in Europe, for example.
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Re: Solo release thread (spoilers)

Post by ray245 » 2018-07-07 05:37pm

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2018-07-06 03:57pm
True. Its far from the worst.

As an aside, one thing I did enjoy in Solo was the revelation that Han could speak a bit of the Wookie language before meeting Chewbacca (indeed its key to his winning over Chewbacca and not getting killed a quarter or a third of the way into the film). Given how many people I've heard claim that Rey is a "Mary Sue" in part because she can speak to Wookies, without the film having explicitly shown that she has a Wookie friend. Because obviously, someone living in a multi-species, multi-lingual settlement* knowing more than one language is highly implausible, and requires extensive justification (at least if they have a vagina).

I don't know if Solo was doing a deliberate take-that at those fans, but I appreciated it nonetheless.

*Given the diversity of species and cultures in the galaxy, and the ease of rapid travel between them, I would actually guess that most people in the galaxy should realistically know at least a bit of multiple languages. This is in no way unrealistic- its pretty much the status quo in Europe, for example.
I find Han's relationship with Chewie too underdeveloped in my opinion. It's a little too easy and convenient for the plot.
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Re: Solo release thread (spoilers)

Post by Q99 » 2018-07-07 10:49pm

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2018-07-06 03:57pm
True. Its far from the worst.

As an aside, one thing I did enjoy in Solo was the revelation that Han could speak a bit of the Wookie language before meeting Chewbacca (indeed its key to his winning over Chewbacca and not getting killed a quarter or a third of the way into the film). Given how many people I've heard claim that Rey is a "Mary Sue" in part because she can speak to Wookies, without the film having explicitly shown that she has a Wookie friend. Because obviously, someone living in a multi-species, multi-lingual settlement* knowing more than one language is highly implausible, and requires extensive justification (at least if they have a vagina).

I don't know if Solo was doing a deliberate take-that at those fans, but I appreciated it nonetheless.

*Given the diversity of species and cultures in the galaxy, and the ease of rapid travel between them, I would actually guess that most people in the galaxy should realistically know at least a bit of multiple languages. This is in no way unrealistic- its pretty much the status quo in Europe, for example.
Yea, and Wookie might not be the *most* common, but it's not unknown. Heck, Chewbacca being a hero of the rebellion probably bumped up it's popularity.

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Re: Solo release thread (spoilers)

Post by Elheru Aran » 2018-07-09 05:07pm

Mange wrote:
2018-07-06 02:58am
Elheru Aran wrote:
2018-07-05 06:10pm
Clone Wars is mostly Dave Filoni's baby with Lucas' blessing, is my understanding.
No, that was not the case. George Lucas was heavily involved with the show and changed Filoni's proposed format, that resembled what later became Rebels with a Jedi Master and his Padawan based on a ship run by a smuggler. Filoni wanted to stay away from the rest of the canon, but that changed when Lucas became actively interested in the show and made Anakin (to whom the Padawan was transferred) and Obi-Wan the main characters. Lucas also came up with specific storylines, had scripts rewritten and was more or less involved in every single episode. He also set limits on what the show could tell, but they would change.
Okay, this I didn't know. I probably confused it with Rebels.
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Re: Solo release thread (spoilers)

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-07-09 06:35pm

Q99 wrote:
2018-07-07 10:49pm
The Romulan Republic wrote:
2018-07-06 03:57pm
True. Its far from the worst.

As an aside, one thing I did enjoy in Solo was the revelation that Han could speak a bit of the Wookie language before meeting Chewbacca (indeed its key to his winning over Chewbacca and not getting killed a quarter or a third of the way into the film). Given how many people I've heard claim that Rey is a "Mary Sue" in part because she can speak to Wookies, without the film having explicitly shown that she has a Wookie friend. Because obviously, someone living in a multi-species, multi-lingual settlement* knowing more than one language is highly implausible, and requires extensive justification (at least if they have a vagina).

I don't know if Solo was doing a deliberate take-that at those fans, but I appreciated it nonetheless.

*Given the diversity of species and cultures in the galaxy, and the ease of rapid travel between them, I would actually guess that most people in the galaxy should realistically know at least a bit of multiple languages. This is in no way unrealistic- its pretty much the status quo in Europe, for example.
Yea, and Wookie might not be the *most* common, but it's not unknown. Heck, Chewbacca being a hero of the rebellion probably bumped up it's popularity.
I'd expect Huttese to come second after Basic, although at least in the NR, I expect Wookie and Mon Calimari might be in the top five or ten.
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Re: Solo release thread (spoilers)

Post by Elheru Aran » 2018-07-09 07:04pm

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2018-07-09 06:35pm
Q99 wrote:
2018-07-07 10:49pm
Yea, and Wookie might not be the *most* common, but it's not unknown. Heck, Chewbacca being a hero of the rebellion probably bumped up it's popularity.
I'd expect Huttese to come second after Basic, although at least in the NR, I expect Wookie and Mon Calimari might be in the top five or ten.
*shrugs* We only ever really see Huttese being used as a lingua franca on Tattooine IIRC.

The simplest explanation is probably local areas of influence and personal experiences will influence what secondary languages people learn. Solo learns Wookiee on Corellia or perhaps during service with the Imperials; odds are good that he encountered Wookiee slaves during either of those times (working in the Corellian shipyards/warehouses or on Imperial bases). Tattooine, IIRC, is within the Hutts' sphere of influence, and has at least a couple of Hutts based there (Jabba and Gardulla).

I don't think it's particularly a situation of various languages being common across the entire galaxy-- more like where you go and what you do will affect what you learn. It seems Basic is pretty universal; while some individuals from alien species don't speak it (by choice or by biology? we don't know), they certainly seem to understand it. At the very least, I'm pretty certain I can't recall anybody in the movies (can't say for Clone Wars or any of the shows) not understanding Basic. Someone here on the board has in their sig a line that goes something like "the global language is English as spoken by foreigners"-- I'd say that's probably a pretty good description of Basic.

All this mostly to say that I suppose in terms of how many people speak them, sure, perhaps Huttese, Wookiee, Mon Cal and such are pretty common languages, but I doubt they're so common as to arguably supplant Basic. They might be comparable to, for example, Mandarin Chinese-- one billion-plus people speaking it is a hell of a lot of people, but English is still more common, and how many English speakers *also* speak Mandarin as a second language?
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Re: Solo release thread (spoilers)

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-07-09 07:12pm

Elheru Aran wrote:
2018-07-09 07:04pm
The Romulan Republic wrote:
2018-07-09 06:35pm
Q99 wrote:
2018-07-07 10:49pm
Yea, and Wookie might not be the *most* common, but it's not unknown. Heck, Chewbacca being a hero of the rebellion probably bumped up it's popularity.
I'd expect Huttese to come second after Basic, although at least in the NR, I expect Wookie and Mon Calimari might be in the top five or ten.
*shrugs* We only ever really see Huttese being used as a lingua franca on Tattooine IIRC.
Perhaps, though I'd think it would be common on the major Hutt worlds, at least. IIRC, they were once rivals to humans for dominant species in the galaxy (or is that just fanon/old EU canon).

Might be a common language for black-market transactions on the Outer Rim, you know.
The simplest explanation is probably local areas of influence and personal experiences will influence what secondary languages people learn. Solo learns Wookiee on Corellia or perhaps during service with the Imperials; odds are good that he encountered Wookiee slaves during either of those times (working in the Corellian shipyards/warehouses or on Imperial bases). Tattooine, IIRC, is within the Hutts' sphere of influence, and has at least a couple of Hutts based there (Jabba and Gardulla).
Makes sense.
I don't think it's particularly a situation of various languages being common across the entire galaxy-- more like where you go and what you do will affect what you learn. It seems Basic is pretty universal; while some individuals from alien species don't speak it (by choice or by biology? we don't know), they certainly seem to understand it. At the very least, I'm pretty certain I can't recall anybody in the movies (can't say for Clone Wars or any of the shows) not understanding Basic. Someone here on the board has in their sig a line that goes something like "the global language is English as spoken by foreigners"-- I'd say that's probably a pretty good description of Basic.
English is basically the international business language, having superseded Latin as the international language (except for scientific terminology and some Catholic stuff), right?
All this mostly to say that I suppose in terms of how many people speak them, sure, perhaps Huttese, Wookiee, Mon Cal and such are pretty common languages, but I doubt they're so common as to arguably supplant Basic. They might be comparable to, for example, Mandarin Chinese-- one billion-plus people speaking it is a hell of a lot of people, but English is still more common, and how many English speakers *also* speak Mandarin as a second language?
Yeah, they'd probably be akin to Mandarin, French, Spanish, etc.- widely-spoken, but more so in some regions than in others.
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Re: Solo release thread (spoilers)

Post by Elheru Aran » 2018-07-09 07:26pm

The Hutts rivaling humanity for the galaxy is old canon, yeah, but as Disney hasn't said otherwise yet... mind you we're talking a LONG time ago, as in the double-digit-thousand-years BBY. I want to say it's painted as something along the lines as being the last really big alien movement against humanity as they were using alien allies and armies of their traditional subjects like Weequays, Nikto and Klaatonians. Been awhile since I read the 'Warfare of Star Wars' book that really went into it, though.

By the prequel era they've long since slid into irrelevancy on a galactic scale, their main strength being black-market gang activity and economic control of a relatively small group of worlds along the Rim or wherever the hell Tattooine is. They were important enough for Darth Maul to pull them into his criminal coalition alongside Black Sun and the Pykes and whatnot, but that's about it.

So their language being a lingua franca on some worlds and perhaps among underworld elements is possible. But it's not really the sort of thing that, for example, a Jedi might be expected to know, particularly with such ready access to translator droids as is possible in the Star Wars universe. Which does bring up a question-- if Basic is so genuinely universal in SW, why the hell do they need a droid that knows literally millions of languages? Are there *even* a million languages for it to know? Is there some sort of political convention where, for example, visiting dignitaries are expected to use their own language at official functions (where a droid programmed to facilitate protocol would come in well useful)?

Biological incompatibility with Basic is the most likely possibility, I suppose-- it's obvious that some species such as Ithorians and whatnot might simply be incapable of vocalizing the language in the same way as humans, and while it's implied in the old EU that Wookiees can speak Basic with a heavy accent, they never display the ability otherwise. While some alien speech might be 'Basic as spoken by aliens' and thus easily understood by some characters used to the 'accent', it could well be their own language, and might require translation. Conversely, human speech might be incomprehensible to some alien species incapable of hearing certain frequencies or which communicate in a completely different fashion such as ultrasonics.
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Re: Solo release thread (spoilers)

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-07-09 07:52pm

So, is the film pretty much implying that Qi'ra is an untrained Force-sensitive, given Maul's interest in her?
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Re: Solo release thread (spoilers)

Post by Elheru Aran » 2018-07-09 07:56pm

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2018-07-09 07:52pm
So, is the film pretty much implying that Qi'ra is an untrained Force-sensitive, given Maul's interest in her?
It's open-ended enough that you can read it that way, but honestly the parsimonious view is simply that Maul told her to come to Dathomir because she's now the leader of the Crimson Dawn and therefore needs to be told whatever is appropriate for her rank to know. She obviously didn't know everything that whatshisface knew, though she probably knew a lot. In any case, when a peon is knocked off, the replacement needs training for the new position.
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Re: Solo release thread (spoilers)

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-07-10 05:17pm

ray245 wrote:
2018-07-07 05:37pm
The Romulan Republic wrote:
2018-07-06 03:57pm
True. Its far from the worst.

As an aside, one thing I did enjoy in Solo was the revelation that Han could speak a bit of the Wookie language before meeting Chewbacca (indeed its key to his winning over Chewbacca and not getting killed a quarter or a third of the way into the film). Given how many people I've heard claim that Rey is a "Mary Sue" in part because she can speak to Wookies, without the film having explicitly shown that she has a Wookie friend. Because obviously, someone living in a multi-species, multi-lingual settlement* knowing more than one language is highly implausible, and requires extensive justification (at least if they have a vagina).

I don't know if Solo was doing a deliberate take-that at those fans, but I appreciated it nonetheless.

*Given the diversity of species and cultures in the galaxy, and the ease of rapid travel between them, I would actually guess that most people in the galaxy should realistically know at least a bit of multiple languages. This is in no way unrealistic- its pretty much the status quo in Europe, for example.
I find Han's relationship with Chewie too underdeveloped in my opinion. It's a little too easy and convenient for the plot.
Its not the main focus of the film, and arguably a little rushed, but Han just seems like the kind of man who makes friends easily. In this film, he quickly befriends Chewie, and the gang of criminals he pretty much shoved his way into to get off-planet. In TFA, he offered Rey a job on the Falcon after knowing her for... maybe a day? In A New Hope, he offered Luke a spot on the Falcon under similar circumstances, then when Luke refused came back and risked his life to help Luke in a seemingly hopeless battle. So I think Han is just someone who forms attachments easily.

Chewie... Han helped him escape from slavery, and unlike a lot of humans in the Imperial era, doesn't look down on him as inferior because of his race. I suppose that's as good a basis for friendship as anything.
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"Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow though."

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Re: Solo release thread (spoilers)

Post by ray245 » 2018-07-10 05:43pm

The Romulan Republic wrote:
2018-07-10 05:17pm
Its not the main focus of the film, and arguably a little rushed, but Han just seems like the kind of man who makes friends easily. In this film, he quickly befriends Chewie, and the gang of criminals he pretty much shoved his way into to get off-planet. In TFA, he offered Rey a job on the Falcon after knowing her for... maybe a day? In A New Hope, he offered Luke a spot on the Falcon under similar circumstances, then when Luke refused came back and risked his life to help Luke in a seemingly hopeless battle. So I think Han is just someone who forms attachments easily.

Chewie... Han helped him escape from slavery, and unlike a lot of humans in the Imperial era, doesn't look down on him as inferior because of his race. I suppose that's as good a basis for friendship as anything.
I'm saying that should be the main focus of the movie. Because Han's origin story itself isn't that interesting. We don't really need to know how Han became the scoundrel he is by the start of ANH. He's a self-centered scoundrel, out for his own interest. You don't need a long character arc to show how he became such a person. For a movie, there isn't much character development to be done for a character like young Han Solo.

Han's and Chewie's relationship, on the other hand, is worth exploring because we know so little about the relationship between both of them prior to ANH. There's loads of room for character development if you focus on their friendship.
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Re: Solo release thread (spoilers)

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2018-07-10 07:06pm

Perhaps, but you could also end up with an entire film built around Chewie and Han bickering (and we can only understand what one of them is saying) before finally becoming friends. And a film built around something where we already know the outcome.

Focusing on other characters more has the advantage of focusing on characters' whose future is uncertain (though granted, pretty much the only options with Qi'ra were "leaves" or "dies").
"Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?"

"Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow though."

Generals William T. Sherman and Ulysses S Grant, the Battle of Shiloh.


"You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?"-Terry Pratchett's DEATH.


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Re: Solo release thread (spoilers)

Post by PhoenixKnig » 2018-09-25 10:52pm

Finally got the chance to see it not too bad great sci-fi movie not so sure about being a Star Wars movie a lot of Easter eggs
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