Vympel wrote: ↑2018-01-08 09:43am
I like it how you keep asserting that they're 'made out of thin air', like they were just invented during the movie. We saw them inventing it in the MacGuyver Room. Heaven forbid that they just have that technology - no, it has to be 'made up out of thin air', because prejudicial language to explain a really mundane plot point makes your argument stronger
1.) DJ literally invents his cloaking out of thin air on the spot
2.) Lets think real hard about the opening of this movie, where cloaks would have been really useful for an activity ongoing. You know where it would have been really great to escape something without an enemy seeing you, yet despite having those exact ships this was not done.
So its either they are not a normal thing, bashed together. Or they had them the whole time, and for some reason didn't use them. Even when they were evacuating the smaller ships to the Raddus later on. Both situations are equally stupid, which stupidity do you choose?
Yes, yes, you're so intelligent. You saw cloaking devices and instead of just going "oh ok, they have those now", you had an aneurysm because in your made-up head space you think it's impossible for something to exist unless you had seen it before you walked into the film.
Being an uncritical sycophant like yourself, I don't expect you to understand intelligence. But as you would know if you had reading comprehension, I have no issue with cloaking devices existing at all, just how they exist and are used in this movie. If you want cloaking devices, fine. Establish you have cloaking devices, and then think about the ramifications of that inside your universe.
For instance, why did the bombers not have cloaking devices in the opening? You don't even need Poe to charge, the dreadnought would never have known they were there according to you (visible light being an intrusive, sciency thing you have not time for). They had the tech at this very site, why would they put it on transports and nothing else? Would that be incredibly disruptive to warfare in SW. Yep, Does its ready existence invalidate a good bit of the previous films, especial the last one that you doggedly insist MUST have been immediately before this? Yep.
Also, Needa establishes ships MF size can't have cloaking devices in TESB. I don't have an exact size on the TLJ transports in question, but they look maybe just a bit bigger.
It's not a concession at all. You're appealing to Atomic Rockets, as if anything at all in Star Wars has ever obeyed those sorts of sci-fi considerations. There's nothing in the actual movies to support you.
I'm sorry, does physics scare you? Do you know what site you are on.
If you would like to discuss this as pure fantasy I suggest you start a thread in the appropriate forum. This is the SciFi section, and even if you want to call this SciFantacy that pesky "Sci" part is still there.
Oh no! Clearly that must mean it cannot exist. No movie can actually add anything, no matter how inconsequential or tangential - ever - it always has to be something that's happened before, or else its prima facie invalid.
Again, you are quibbling. Its not the existence of the tech, its the lack of consistent and uniform application of it to the setting, wherever and in whatever movie that happens.
What the fuck are you talking about? You are just flat out making shit up:
I don't see jack shit about communicators there, or anywhere else in the script. Please, quote the part from the script which says any of this utter bullshit you're spewing. No one ever says "oh the communicators worked because the hacked DS control room argle bargle". It's a fantasy you invented in your head. Nothing ever seen in Star Wars remotely precludes the use of a fucking space radio between ships.
I didn't say anything about the communicators worked because they hacked the controls. I said they got the communicators from the control room AND hacked the controls. Together that allowed them to do what they did. Though you make a good point, the fact that R2 had access the their computer, including communications, makes the case why they were not discovered using said communications. Thanks for once again proving the superior story craft of a group of upstarts using 1970s tech and a shoe string budget over people with literally limitless technology and money in comparison.
The point being they didn't just bring in their own random shit and magically it worked. They used the facilities own equipment, which unsurprisingly worked in said facility). The writers realized this, and made sure R2 did what he did and we see them acquire the comms. You probably didn't register this at the time because the whole point of such details to make thinks smooth and seamless, not so haltingly improbable that you have to stop and ask why.
That's really what you are missing. You think its stupid to have to have these things explained, but what these things are doing is making explainations unnecessary.
Who says? You? Prove it.
Your right. Its actually worse than that for you. Maz is in the Mid Rim, but Crait is not just in the Outer Rim, its in the a remote region of the outer rim. In other words, that comm signal went even farther than I thought.
They had the ability to communicate far beyond the Outer Rim and did so on screen. Discontinuity proven.
I'm not even sure what this means. Do we have some reason to assume Maz has access to the kind of powerful communications facility Crait has, and which they need? You seem to think so, but you're not explaining why.
It doesn't matter, as they already proved they can communicate inside the outer rim and beyond. Its not my fault the Rebels are idiots and not only don't know they can communicate, but DID communicate.
Is there something about "come to XXXXXX" that requires some sort of special communication? They don't even have to encrypt it, they are already discovered.
Or are we supposed to believe that there is nobody who can relay a message or is even some of the people they actually want to communicate with inside this giant swath of the galaxy that includes at least a radius extending from the remote outer rim to some point inside the mid rim? I can't actual assume you know anything about SW geography, this means a good chunk of the outer rim is is inside direct communications range of the Raddus. And that's assuming Maz's inner rim location is the extent of their range, and that she is on the closer side of the inner rim.
Also, since its been established that the Rebels can hyper in and out of the battlefield at will with no problem, and galactic travel times being what they are, this is all a red herring. At any time they could send someone wherever they want. To a place with all the power required (as if that matters, but given this abandoned thirty year old base could do it any Galactic Union telegram service will suffice), or directly to whomever they were trying to contact in the first place (some of them at least).
And since you seem intent to believe that Crait's armored shell must be compromised after 30 years, or Pink must be wrong because she has never been there, you must think she is really stupid to think there is a working shield generator and "powerful" communications system on ready standby for use.
This is such a stupid non-problem for so many reasons it boggles the mind that this is a plot point. I am not surprised you are hung up on though.
It's not a "discontinuity" at all, you're just being a bloody-minded a moron who refuses to listen to the film's dialog.
Show, don't tell. They showed the comms working just fine. I did here the dialogue of them talking to someone vast inter galactic distances away from them just fine too, so your dialogue defense betrays you. We see them do exactly what we are told they can't do. From that very ship, before we factor in they can go almost wherever they want, whenever they want, to do the same.
Ah yes, because "allies" in this context clearly must mean treaty allies engaged in active hostilities, as opposed to say, friends who can provide them with material aid.
Material aid? Is that what Leia was calling them for, material aid? Yeah...
But lets have a conversation about this with General Hux
Hux: "Destroy that Rebel SCUM!!!"
Crewman: "Ummm, sir, those technically aren't Rebel. That's the Continuum of Sarkon, who have pledged only limited bomber support and have only ratified portions of Organa's program. In fact, the refused to actually sign up to the self styled Rebellion, and will only commit a maxium of 20% of their combat forces."
Hux: "Oh, well, that changes everything! I would hate to mischaracterize someone hostile to us, actively called into battle by the Rebels we are pursuing. That would just be dreadful!
Crewman: "Perhaps if I had the bridge log record your command as "rebel" instead of "Rebel," this would alleviate any slight to the Sarkon's."
Hux: "You're right. We all know part of the First Orders ideology is meticulous attention to diplomatic technicalities and the scrupulous adherence to courtesies."
Snoke: "HUX!!!!. Did I just here you improperly logged Sarkons as the proper noun Rebels!!!!" *Force Choke*
This is your world dipshit.
Where is the part about where you spend 20% of your movie in service to characters with no meaningful contribution to the movie? Hey, you know who had stories as described in that article and were relevant to the plot. All the rest of them.
To tell the story they wanted to tell.
Exactly, regardless to the entries of previous artists. Such a great way to handle a vast setting crafted by thousands of craftsmen and artists, doing whatever you want regardless of the legacy of the IP you bought precisely because of that previous work.
That's a great value bulding strategy if I ever saw one. I believe its called scorched earth. How did TLJ do int he box office compared to TFA again?
What the fuck does "TIE Fighters find them easily enough" (are you suggesting that 'armored' means 'hidden' too?) have to do with the price of tea in China? It's not even clear what your complaint is anymore. That the plot is somehow flawed because the First Order didn't send out surveyors to find a tunnel through which they could enter the base without a frontal assault? Oh no!
Practical:
Q. Vympel has to build a hardened bunker that must be able to resist ground and air assault of a highly futuristic and destructive character. Do you:
a - Build your bunker in a geographically stable area of dense, uniform, sold bedrock with zero unnecessary exposure to foundations?
b - Build your bunker in a fissue ridden substrate with access large enough for dozen meter wide freighters to safely transverse, including passages that penetrate directly into your facility that masses of animals and people can trasnferse?
Extra Credit: If you were to pick b, would you waste your time creating armored doors that can resit all but DEATH STAR!!!! technology when there are obvious surface accesses any enemy can just waltz through with a simple earth mover?
The worst part about this whole thing was what did those few seconds of the MF and some TIEs flying through some crysal encrusted fissues actually get us? It was throwaway shit emblematic of the worst of the Prequels. And what is the problem with the base just having a secret armored back door a la the Endor shield generator complex so Pink, C3PO and R2 don't have to be boobs?
Didn't you? "There was an open rock entrance into there, which means the FO could easily have bombarded them to death."
Oh, you think things have to be bombarded from orbit or not at all. Interesting...
I suggest you rewatch some of the other SW movies and re-access.
ZOMG, you mean that Admiral Holdo trusted the plans of a 30 year old base which she had never fucking seen as opposed to the extensive survey of potential tunnels? What a dumb plot!
The extensive survey, you know where the droids assessed the base that was in good enough shape to have a functional shield, echoed her assessment. But damn, even that couldn't not be contradicted just minutes later. Is this a nitpick. Yep. But that's why its so baffling that it exists at all, its so excruciatingly unnecessary.
I mean, were you sitting in your seat going "Oooooooh man, I was really sweating bullets! I was so shocked they flipped the switch on me! I mean, both Pink AND the droids were wrong. Holy fucking suspense!"
Nah, you didn't give a shit because you knew it was the case. You knew, the second that door was breached, that like clockwork a plot honey hole would open up right where it was needed, what the movie already established be damned.
Why would his face melt off? What, you didn't notice the windshield?
Oh, I don't know, something to do with space age supper durable future materials going molton around me makes me think the air might be a bit warmer than comfortable. That staring directing into a laser beam, windshield or no, isn't good for your eyes. Especially a laser one meter wide already melting metal before it even fires.
But then there is that part where that windshield, even if its made of of whatever magic death star laser proof material you think it is, doesn't cover their fucking heads.
Yes, he does. He goes from a cowardly defector doing anything he can to run from the First Order to being deeply loyal to his friends (chiefly, Rey). In TLJ he goes from just caring about his immediate circle of friends (hence his attempt to abandon the Raddus) to accepting his identity as a rebel.
Except he didn't abandon the Raddus because he didn't care about the Rebellion (and we know him staying there would have accomplished nothing, just like Poe accomplished nothing), but because he wanted to help Rey (which might have accomplished nothing). Then he directly contradicts the leadership of said Rebellion, later getting most of them killed as you kindly reminded me.
Then when he was actually going to sacrifice his life for the Rebellion, selflessly attempting to save all of them, not just his friends, he is physically stopped from doing so. At which point what he learns is to save who/what you love rather than destroy that which threatens everyone. Its better to live for the few, than die for the many. This is your movie dude...
"Most". Most what? A handful of delusionals who think movies are wikipedia articles, and everything needs to stop so some character can explain shit to the audience?
Again, this thing was out of the top three by week three.
Oh I see, so your argument is that the Rebels should have per-emptively arrived at the Battle of Endor with uncrewed ships so they could suicide them, because they have a TARDIS and can see the future! Heaven forbid that mass suicide might not be high on their list of priorities and they may prefer to, you know, live to fight another day. Everyone in fiction is a Japanese kamikaze pilot now.
I can only assume you are sensing the weakness of your argument, your flailing is getting entertaining.
I am saying if you know or expect you are going to die, and you have zero way to seriously damage your enemy conventionally in a desperate situation, that's exceptional sacrifice becomes appealing because there is no down side. People don't charge machine gun nets because everything is going to plan and we are going to win anyway, they do it when desperate or they are out of choices.
If you are at Endor, you just found out the DS shield is up, you just got caught in a pincer attach between the DS and a fleet many more times powerful than yours, and you happened to hear that exchange between Ackbar and Lando, you are in that type of situation.
Ackbar outright says this, but he closes with the SDs anyway. That's a suicidal move by his own admission. Maybe not instantly so, but he expected eventual death.
So if that's the case, if you have reconciled yourself to a fight to the death, are you going to pick the manor of your death to cause the maximum damage on your way out or something less?
Now Endor has a special circumstance in that the Rebel fleet was always expendable. Their sole job was to keep any Imperial pretense away from the strike craft making the actual run on the DS via setting up a perimeter. I think we can all agree that while not desirable, if they lost all their cap ships bet still succeeded in destroying the DS that's still a win. Especially since this was the only chance. This is why they made their suicidal charge vise retreating. But it also means that they needed to exist as long as possible to cover the DS attack, so maximum damage to the Imperial fleet is not the goal, delaying it is. It does no good for the cap ship to destroy 99% of the Imperial fleet instantly if that 1% is left unopposed to spoil the attack.
That said, as the TLJ just showed us the damage effectiveness between conventional warship to conventional warship tonnage is FAR more effective using hyperspace attacks vice turbo laser exchanges. So while it might not make sense to sacrifice MC80s for ISDs if you are trying to remain in being as long as possible, it is an unbelievable deal to trade on MC80 for an Executor many hundreds of times as large and maybe equally as advantaged in combat power.
But they didn't. These Rebels who were ready to die. Expecting to die. Resigned to dying. They decided to not use this tool at their disposal. And this is even though the mass disparity between and MC80 and the Executor is FAR more favorable than the Raddus and the Supremacy. Why.
Why. Why. Why. Were they cowards? Were they stupid? Were they just not dedicated to their cause? And we aren't even into purposely designed hyperspace weapons. This is just adhoc shit.
No, she didn't take 'several minutes' of pounding at all. The Rebel's cargo frigate was destroyed first, and Raddus was briefly under fire while Kylo Ren tore her up in his starfighter. Again, you have fuck all idea about story-telling. You see Hux ignore the cruiser and think "hur durr, I guess this scene doesn't matter".
If by briefly you mean several minutes, you are correct. Its actually worse than you think. Rabbus survived that time under the COMBINED power of the Supremacy's fire and effective starfighter attack.
The fact is whenever the Rebels wanted to, they could have done exactly what they did. You have no good reason to provide why they didn't, instead slowly letting their fleet be whittled down before doing it anyway.
Also, since again we see they can use transports to hyper in and hyper out unmolested at any time, instead of wasting their time at that casino Finn and Rose could just have slowly ferried the entire crews of all of the vessels back and forth to safety. To be honest, none of the Rebel lives were actually in danger during that entire chase, the only thing that had to be in jeopardy was their hardware. Pride fucking with them I guess, but thats a hell of a stupid way to die.
The only person displaying 'fanboy rage' here is you. You're the one having a big sooky cry about how you're so much more valuable than casual fans after all, in probably one of the most absurdly entitled displays I've ever seen.
Valuable you can call it. Lucrative is probably more accurate, and strictly in the sense that I am a mark for merchandising. You call that privilege, I often think of it as being a sucker.
What I am not, however, is an unquestioning consumer who has zero ability to parse quality from gilded turds. I bet you are far more lucrative a fan than me since you like this latest stuff.
But no, your argument is a big load of bullshit. The "Imperial fleet was ordered not to attack" excuse only goes so far as to the moment the Rebel fleet engaged the Imperial fleet.
Says...nobody? Do you have the annexes to the Emperors OPORD, because I didn't hear Piett say anything other than "we need only keep them from escaping." Which they did, even if it was made easier by the Rebels not trying to escape.
There is zero evidence that the Imperials ever went all in, because the most decorated fleet officer of the Rebel Alliance told us what that would look like. And to be perfectly honest there is very little to show the Rebels were doing much damage to the Imperials either. Sure, I won't claim NO damage, we see an ISD explode based on nothing related to the Executor. But the Executor itself is written to be a fluke, an Imperial Hood to the Alliand Bismark. That was obviously an unexpected development by both sides.
At that point, the Executor - employing your logic - should have been capable of wiping out the Rebel fleet all by itself. This never happened. Or is your brilliant argument going to be "the Imperial fleet never went full bore during the whole battle because they're retarded but this is better than the First Order because ... hey look over there, a giraffe!"
So they take out the Executor because of a fluke. An unfortunate occurrence but also unpredictable. Its irrelevant. Destroying the Executor didn't win the day for the Rebels. In fact, its didn't matter to the Emperor whether ALL of the star destroyers were destroyed, as long as they succeeded in keeping the Rebels there to be destroyed by the DS. And should that have been what transpired it would still be a decisive win for the Empire. They have Star Destroyers to spare, the Rebels would be nonexistent. Of course we know the Emperor would have died anyway, but that wouldn't have mattered to anyone on the Rebel fleet. Its not like the was just going to surrender to Luke if it wasn't exposed due to the Endor mission.
The only event that allowed the Rebels to win in space had nothing to do with anything the Imperials or the Rebels did over Endor, the only thing that mattered was what happened on Endor. Up until that point the Rebel fleet was completely without agency from the second they arrived, it was either be destroyed by the DS or be destroyed by the fleet if they attempted to escape.
I suspect the Emperor knew they would fight to the death, which is why he felt comfortable telling his fleet to just accept the damage and instead showcase his new toy. Again, nothing outside the surface of Endor changed that state of affairs.
Yes, heroic figures often engage in suicidal attacks. That's why they're heroic figures. They also don't make that choice for subordinates.
Oh yeah? Did the Iron Brigade take a poll? Did the 101st hold a vote to stay put during the Bulge? Stop talking nonsense, history is replete with units put into such situations en mass and being considered heroic to the man. The distinction between hero and forgotten is generally success or luck.
It's not about "criticisms of the OT", its pointing out your bullshit about "the setting" is just that. It's a fantasy you've concocted in your head. It doesn't match any fucking movie.
So there not being hyperspace weapons doesn't match any other movie?
If there is no problem with shields being inconsistent, why did RotJ go to such lengths to explain them away? We went over this already. Would the demise of the Executor be better to you if there was no exploding tower/bridge shield failure confirmation/panicked call for firepower? Its all fluff to you apparently.
Wait, what are you even talking about now? Of course the Raddus smashed through the shields. Why would admitting that blindingly obvious fact mean I "hate" (presumably) Star Wars?
Because you want a poorer universe. You aren't the thinking type, just like TLJ's writers, so lets go through this.
You might hate physics, but that's irrelevant because physics loves you and your world and the SWs world with a loving iron embrace. Physics tells us you can't get to c. You can approach it with ever greater levels of effort, but not reach it. This is true in SW, which is why they have hyperspace. In SWs when you get close to "light speed" the hyper-drive transitions you to hyperspace where the rules are different. So the real question here is how is the damage mode applied here.
If the Raddus hit the Supremacy while in realspace before transitioning to hyperspace, its by definition doing so at something less than c. The problem here is that this means relativistic weapons become effective in SWs. These weapons are down right primitive given the tech levels in SW, its the equivalent of spear men beating tanks in civilization as an intentional game mechanic.
Normally we excuse things like this by invoking fantastic defenses, like shields. We don't actually know how shields work, what they do to incoming fire, how they are maintained etc. We do know how they are used, they essentially can block anything except fantastic weapons, things like turbolasers which we also don't understand but know how they are used. If Supremacy had its shields up, and Raddus did its damage in real space, that means cheap R-bombs can kill anything. On the cheap. Even worse, given the size disparity between the two, the volume of the Raddus to the volume of the Supremacy means you don't even need a large R-bomb. Raddus was to Supremacy what a .22 is to a human. In other words an X-wing can be one shotted with a .50 cal slug or there abouts. And WORSE, the level of damage was so extreme its probable you can use a value significantly below c and get a lesser but effectively as devastating effect. And worst of all most is that these will be CHEAP, real space damage means you don't need a hyperdrive on every munition, just a launcher of some sort.
If the weapon delivers its damage from hyerspace that fundamentally changes everything we know about how hyperspace works. We have seen things exit hyperspace onto things (it was not as devastating as we see in TLJ), and we know matter of a certain mass will pull things out of hyperspace, but I don't think things interact until they are either both in or both out of hyperspace. Its also worth a thought about whether you are actually traveling faster in hyperspace, or the distances are just shorter. If its the first and you are interacting with real world objects you are talking energies delivered based on moving many times faster than c. I don't even know how to calculate that, it poor mans planet popper stuff surely.
In any case this means hyperspace munitions are expensive, but they are no undetectable and have infinite range. Galaxy Gun shit, only the authors of that trash didn't understand warheads don't matter at that point.
The damage we see is also interesting. If its just a realspace mass on mass collision I would expect the damage to radiate out from the point of impact, maybe with a crack along a seam or other structural. I would actual expect no visible ship left at all, but if the energies are less than catastrophic its definitely going to be a point impact, an no slice.
If the damage is inflicted in hyperspace who knows. From what I am seeing perhaps if you transition through the target you drag the matter along your route into hyperspace with you, and the collision reaction takes place inside hyperspace, explaining the lack of explosion destroying the rest of the ship. That could be useful if you want to penetrate a target vice just blow up on the matter you first make contact with, like maybe a facility deep in a planet (assuming you can address the gravity well issue), but this yields significantly less damage than expected. Though as I type this the true uniqueness of the damage seen might be because it had to crash the shield first, which has some unknown effect on follow on kinetic impact characteristics.
This is what that scene means Vympel.
Luke's 'power' has no bearing on whether he'd be a good teacher. These two things are not related at all.
Just like how good at math you are has no bearing on how well you teach it. We can save a lot of money having our history teachers take over calculus.
Yes yes, this is rapidly becoming a theme now. Movies aren't allowed to do anything new, ever. If it wasn't in the previous movies, even though you've offered not a single good reason in what circumstances it'd be remotely essential, it must be criticised.
This is the opposite of what I said. New things just have to be integrated into the setting as it exists. That's all. The problem is not that the exist at all, its that they are dumped in without a thought to the logical consequences.
Good god you're obtuse. You think the Force is a bunch of magic fucking spells, not a basically mystical philosophy.
You, an idiot: "Yoda didn't teach Luke anything about astral projection!"
Using the force is a skill. Like anything else it is learned and practiced and exercised. You said Yoda did something, and now Luke can do this. We saw Yoda do nothing that should lead to this specific result. There is nothing about Luke and Yoda's interaction that is not applicable to any other Jedi we have seen.
Oh hey, I wonder if Luke projecting his image to distract Kylo Ren without ever once attacking him fits that bill!
Yeah, there is zero reason this can't be used offensively. None at all.
I believe I already pointed out that's obviously false, since, you know, things change following actual events, but hey, you do you.
I am not saying they didn't happen that way, just that your shitty movie did so without providing a plausible reason how anyone could or would know these things. The only way anyone can know what happened when Kyko and Luke met is because the FO sources told people. They were the only ones there.
They didn't do any such thing. That he's not really there is deliberately telegraphed for an attentive viewer from the moment he appears. He looks different, and younger. He has the saber that was broken. His feet aren't making prints in the salt. This is deliberate. It's not a mistake.
Fuck what an intentionally boring next ten minutes if we are just supposed to sit around and watch Kylo learn what we already know.
Yes, there should be clues for the attentive viewer because the way this trick works is you see the reveal and you think back and go "Fuck, that's right, it all makes sense now! Mind fuck!" The Usual Suspects 101. You thinking this was an intentional spoil by the writers is hilarious. They did spoil it through incompetence as discussed, but no writer gives away the twist intentionally.
Yes, I'm sure you could write a better Star Wars movie, you, the dumbass who thinks Yoda's lessons to Luke involved teaching him fucking magic spells.
This is precious. You think the Force isn't indistinguishable from magic...
This is just incoherent, nonsensical ranting at this point. It's not making any sort of actually intelligible point. There's nothing 'wasteful' about his manner of death at all. He goes out in a display of massive Force power that's exactly in tune with the idealised vision of what Jedi are supposed to be. That's all there is to it.
He did something a hologram, basic SW tech could accomplish (HAS accomplished in many SciFi plots). So amazing.
So what? Luke's also holding a lightsaber that isn't actually there. There's no reason to assume Leia can actually 'feel' him in a real way.
Thanks for substantiating the my claim. I can only assume you talked yourself into circles in all this ranting. The point I made was Luke CAN interact with real matter, which means he could have done all sorts of far more useful things through his astral projection.
Being able to be anywhere, and interact with anything physically, now THAT is impressive and useful.
I don't know what version of the movie you watched, but I saw multiple Resistance fighters watching Luke stand out there in front of the First Order units before they left.
Nope, they all leave in the middle of the sequence. Thats why they don't all die when Kylo raids the place immediately after he is duped.
Are deer subterranean creatures now?
Its funny you mention that. Do you know who else had no knowledge about a particular species subterranean characteristics? I will give you a hint, their names end with "bacca" and "Sue".
Given that hyperspace travel has never taken weeks, I can only assume this is yet another made up thing that exists in your head which you think consitutes "the setting".
I didn't say the travel took weeks, I said she could have taken weeks in between. She could have sat and Finns hospital bed for a few days. Rolled in the sheets with Poe. Taken a vacation. Helped the Rebels with any of her plethora of unearned and unsubstantiated Mary Sue powers. Hey I have an idea, practice with her fucking light saber so her proficiency on the island later makes some sense over what we see at the end or TFA, which you say was like yesterday.
It doesn't matter, there is nothing in TFA or TLJ that says the events we see in TLJ are linear.
"All the major systems" = the galaxy now?
Oh, you think there are only thousands and thousands of worlds in the galaxy period, vice thousands and thousands of major worlds and MILLIONS of other worlds?
Are you new to this franchise. This isn't like the colonies of Kobal, its a bit grander. I agree is easier if you can count the scenery on your fingers which I guess you probably have to do, but that won't suffice here.
I repeat my question. Feel free to answer it.
And I repeat my answer. If you know what information theory is, you would know why what you imagine the answer is to your question is stupid. Remember, you are the one why decided the Force wasn't magic.
No, that's exactly why Poe called it off. Because it wouldn't work. Sorry - he literally says this.
Nope. But lets assume you are right. This invalidates the entire arc of Poe, because the lesson Leia was teaching was that winning with no reckoning with the consequences is Pyrrhic. Leaders can understand that winning isn't everything. The battle isn't the war.
If Poe wasn't going to win on Hoth2, the lesson couldn't be learned. All he did was quite over fear of loss, not sober assessment that the likely win wasn't worth that loss. That ain't leadership.
Given her course was taking her perpendicular to the target the walkers were protecting, I can see walker pilots wondering just what the hell she was doing.
Do I need to draw a picture for you why you can't catch up to someone if you are moving perpendicular to them?
Vader isn't plot, dingus, he's story too. The plot serves the story.
This is not to say plot does not matter, but like most annoying people on the internet who don't know anything about what actually makes a movie, you think useful criticism of film constitues nothing but nitpicking the plot to demonstrate how you're smarter than the writer. It's laughable.
Yep, that nitpick that all space combat ever seen over eight movies now makes no sense. So minor. So inconsequential. All the star wars in Star Wars has been trivialized and its of no matter, Rose got to free space giraffes!!!!
You are waxing poetic about story and plot when its irrelevant, both of them fail miserably.
Wow, you're so goddamn stupid.
1. Luke's entire arc is based around his failure as a master. I know it was hard to see what with Yoda giving him a big lecture about failure, but there it is.
2. Poe sends Finn and Rose go on a mission to disable the Supremacy's hyperspace tracker, and this completely fails. The result is the compromise of the Resistance plan and the slaughter of hundreds of Resistance fighters.
3. Rey goes to save Ben, and completely fails. Ben refuses to turn and instead seizes power for himself.
But sure: "but they kerploded big ships! No failure! Weeeee pew pew pew what is story. Also I think Snoke is the main villain and his death is a victory". That works too.
So in a movie called "Star WARS," The fact that they utterly destroyed their opponents war machine, destroy maybe hundreds to thousands of millions more tonnage than the lose, killing millions of the enemy, pretty much every FO mook that appears on screen, and thwart the primary objective of said enemy is entirely counterbalanced because some feels?
And Luke failed? Well technically he did, but not in THIS movie. Luke redeemed himself in this movie. So he died, well, at the beginning of the movie he was just waiting to die anyway without contributing to anything, so no change there. When he died was it with a smile on his face or a frown? Triumph or defeat?
Leia escaped from the Rebel base, along with every protagonist (which was if you remember the primary goal of this super locally focused plot, as literally spelled out) and since the help not coming had nothing to do with the events of this movie that failure happened before too whenever she fucked up wining their support.
Rey contributes to Luke's redemption, to the death of the senior enemy (so there is a new boss, there always is, its still a victory), and gains a new confidence in herself, escaping the past. You might of noticed a difference in her condition and attitude versus that of Luke at the end of ESB. It has something do do with having all her limbs, with none of her friends alive and not made into a throne room art display.
Finn, though he doesn't grow one fucking bit, is alive and that's far more than he deserves. He saves his love interest. He isn't in prison for gross negligence in the death of most of his crew. His actor still has a job for unknown reasons.
Poe isn't executed for active mutiny like he should be, contributing directly to the death of most of his supposed comrades for no reason.
The Rebellion is not dead, for unfathomable reasons directly contrary to what we observe. Like I said, nothing happened in this movie that would have changed the minds of anyone supporting the Rebellion, them having no actual support was the reality at the start. If anything they have MORE support now that the FO released the favorable account of Luke's actions that only they no.
Some bad shit happened, but this is a carnival ride compared the the forlorn folk staring at the galactic wheel from the medical frigate.