Star Wars: The Last Jedi release thread (spoilers)

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi release thread (spoilers)

Post by Nephtys » 2017-12-23 01:02am

^addendum: Remember, Hux mocks the 'Vaunted' Republic Fleet, indication that the Republic's military strength already has the first order being kept down. TFA had the equivalent of a successful massive nuclear first strike.

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi release thread (spoilers)

Post by Shroom Man 777 » 2017-12-23 01:31am

My question is, in TLJ why were the FO so reliant on the Dreadnought and Snoke's ship for anti-capship duties against the remaining Resistance ships?
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi release thread (spoilers)

Post by swan2swan » 2017-12-23 03:01am

Since a lot of you haven't read Thrawn or The Last Jedi, Snoke was heavily implied to have been some malevolent threat in the Unknown Regions/Outer Rim--something Palpatine wanted to contact (and probably toy with/destroy).

As for Snoke himself, he was probably terrified of Palpatine and kept himself hidden for as long as he could...trying to make himself more and more powerful. When Palpatine died, though, nothing was left to stand against Snoke, except Skywalker and his Jedi. Then those were all eliminated, so he finally was ready to come out of the shadows.

Anyway, as you were.

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi release thread (spoilers)

Post by Shroom Man 777 » 2017-12-23 03:05am

He offered nothing too new, he might as well have been less-foreshadowed and just a canny Dark Side adept who Grima Wormtongued Kylo and got cocky (and fine he had some l33t skillz of his own) and then DIED.
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi release thread (spoilers)

Post by Vympel » 2017-12-23 03:24am

Mange wrote:
2017-12-15 12:21am
Because it's stupid. When I watched TFA (I haven't seen TLJ yet) I found it to be akin to Nazi escapees to Argentina using local scientists to build a hydrogen bomb, using the local resources to build a massive fleet and airforce and using local recruits to man them. Then plan on invading the United States that, despite intelligence and knowing there's a build-up, sits on its hands doing nothing. It breaks suspension of disbelief.

I'm sorry to see that it seems as if TFA's poor worldbuilding was carried over to TLJ.
None of that is in TFA at all. What is 'Argentina' in this scenario (of course JJ Abrams spoke of Nazis fleeing to Argentina but the idea that he was making some sort of serious geopolitical analysis as opposed to an off-hand analogy is ridiculous), who are the 'local scientists', what assumptions are you making about the size of the First Order's fleet, and why are you assuming the New Republic should be treated as the United States, absurd military hyper-power?

Here's what TFA actually tells us about the balance of power:

- The Republic is the dominant galactic government (after the destruction of the Republic capital "All remaining systems will bow to the First Order!");
- The Republic and First Order coexist - we know this because the Republic supports the Resistance while denying that it does so:

"With the support of the REPUBLIC, General Leia Organa leads a brave RESISTANCE."

"At this very moment in a system far from here the New Republic lies to the galaxy while secretly supporting the treachery of the loathsome Resistance."

- The military balance between the First Order and Republic - excluding Starkiller Base - is not so lopsided that the First Order doesn't fear engaging the Republic fleet - which is why its wiped out by Starkiller Base.

"We shall destroy the government that supports the Resistance, the Republic. Without their friends to protect them, the Resistance will be vulnerable, and we will stop them before they reach Skywalker."

"This fierce machine which you have built, upon which we stand, will bring an end to the Senate! To their cherished fleet!"

"Oh my. Without the Republic fleet, we're doomed."

Since the Republic military is small enough that it can be totally wiped out by a multi-planetary strike on its capital system, where it is observed to be in orbit around at least one planet, we can infer from this that the Republic is substantially demilitarised compared to the Empire.

I find it odd that people think this is SOD breaking or ludicrous when the prequels gave us an Old Republic that didn't even have an army at all.

Of course, if we delve into the supplementary material, we're told a lot more. The New Republic's de-militarisation is a settled fact, as is the fact that the New Republic never reached the heights of the Old Republic in terms of influence or territory.
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi release thread (spoilers)

Post by Shroom Man 777 » 2017-12-23 05:13am

Anti-imperialist anti-militant New Republic types who balk at Gerrerist, even Organaist, direct action could've totally decentralized self-defense capabilities (had worlds and systems revert to Naboo-type self-defense forces, with the better-off ones perhaps having Kuati or Correllian-level defense abilities) across the galaxy after being tired of decades of civil war. Not only the years post-Endor, but the fatigue could include the years between Yavin and Endor.

Heck, maybe the reason why there's no Coruscant - IMO neo-Gerrerists and a returning elder freedom fighter/statesman BOR GULLET took care of Coruscant ;) - in the New Republic equation could be why there was such de-militarization. I bet Coruscant was a bloodbath. BOR GULLET had people tried and executed! But at least with his betentacled Chekists, they could derive the truth. Perhaps there was a schism and BENTHIC TWO-TUBES didn't even want trials and just wanted mass executions!
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi release thread (spoilers)

Post by eMeM » 2017-12-23 08:11am

The Republic supporting the Rebels doesn't make a slightest bit of sense. If they do, they know the Empire is a threat, so unless the Republic believed that a dozen fighters and a cruiser can bring the Empire down, they would be preparing for the real war.

Of course we know from other sources that the Republic is completely clueless, and some individual people in the Republic are privately supporting the Rebels, and that Abrams is a twat who changed the opening crawl without asking anyone, and the Story Group learned about it watching the movie premiere.

It makes a bit more sense but the sequel trilogy is still a stupid convoluted mess concieved by people with no imagination like Abrams, Kasdan, and Johnson, just to bring back the overdone, stupid, unoriginal Big Evil Empire vs Good Underdog Rebels dynamic, but this time, as everything is bigger, more intensive, more extreme, the Rebellion is such an extremely underdoggy underdog it could't stand a chance against the police force of my hometown.

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi release thread (spoilers)

Post by Rogue 9 » 2017-12-23 08:41am

eMeM wrote:
2017-12-23 08:11am
Of course we know from other sources that the Republic is completely clueless, and some individual people in the Republic are privately supporting the Rebels, and that Abrams is a twat who changed the opening crawl without asking anyone, and the Story Group learned about it watching the movie premiere.
Wait, what? How do we know this, and if they're doing that shit why do they have a story group?
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi release thread (spoilers)

Post by ray245 » 2017-12-23 08:54am

Rogue 9 wrote:
2017-12-23 08:41am
eMeM wrote:
2017-12-23 08:11am
Of course we know from other sources that the Republic is completely clueless, and some individual people in the Republic are privately supporting the Rebels, and that Abrams is a twat who changed the opening crawl without asking anyone, and the Story Group learned about it watching the movie premiere.
Wait, what? How do we know this, and if they're doing that shit why do they have a story group?
Because Kennedy doesn't do all the boring worldbuilding bits herself. That's always my problem with the management in Lucasfilm after it's been sold to Disney. Unlike Marvel with Kevin Feige taking charge of the world building bits himself, Lucasfilm have no such person.

This strategy only works if you manage to have consistent good directors, but there also a chance that different directors have very different idea what they want out of Star Wars.
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi release thread (spoilers)

Post by Vympel » 2017-12-23 09:24am

eMeM wrote:
2017-12-23 08:11am
The Republic supporting the Rebels doesn't make a slightest bit of sense. If they do, they know the Empire is a threat, so unless the Republic believed that a dozen fighters and a cruiser can bring the Empire down, they would be preparing for the real war.

Of course we know from other sources that the Republic is completely clueless, and some individual people in the Republic are privately supporting the Rebels, and that Abrams is a twat who changed the opening crawl without asking anyone, and the Story Group learned about it watching the movie premiere.

It makes a bit more sense but the sequel trilogy is still a stupid convoluted mess concieved by people with no imagination like Abrams, Kasdan, and Johnson, just to bring back the overdone, stupid, unoriginal Big Evil Empire vs Good Underdog Rebels dynamic, but this time, as everything is bigger, more intensive, more extreme, the Rebellion is such an extremely underdoggy underdog it could't stand a chance against the police force of my hometown.
In my initial version of my post I had it in brackets that "actually, it's elements within the Republic not the Republic itself" but eh, it's supplementary material so I didn't bother.
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi release thread (spoilers)

Post by LadyTevar » 2017-12-23 03:30pm

This makes the most sense to me as well.
Nephtys wrote:
2017-12-23 12:48am
The Republic's military being crap is fine. Because we visibly see a huge wad of capital warships being destroyed by Starkiller, a totally unprecedented weapon that far (FAR) exceeds the powers of even the last giant weapon, the Death Star. That gave you hours and hours of time to prepare. This fired a beam across light years that then splits and instagibs multiple planets. How can ANYONE prepare for that?

Perhaps since the Republic doesn't need to forcibly occupy it's populace, it has massive fleets stationed in powerful anchorages, able to sortie and respond to attack, and outgunned the pathetic First Order. While War-Mongers like Leia were railing for the Republic to strike Space North Korea.

So the Republic loses 80%+ of their fleet, enough for the First Order to then strike and outgun the Republic, enough where defeat is likely. Nothing contradictory there at all. The Resistance seemed well funded enough for an independent organization to field at least one capital warship, so presumably war surplus is all over the place. Plus, the New Republic Navy was funded enough to develop, and then surplus, T-70s which means they certainly didn't go all swords to plowshares immediately.

Presumably, idiots like Hux were chosen solely for political loyalty. Canady was an old school Imperial man, and had his own set of ideologies.
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi release thread (spoilers)

Post by FaxModem1 » 2017-12-23 04:58pm

Elfdart wrote:
2017-12-21 10:02pm
Mange wrote:
2017-12-15 12:21am
Vympel wrote:I don't think where he got the ships is at all relevant to the story. It's implicit in what we see of the First Order that they have a capable military industrial complex and significant manpower - why does it need to be justified?
Because it's stupid. When I watched TFA (I haven't seen TLJ yet) I found it to be akin to Nazi escapees to Argentina using local scientists to build a hydrogen bomb, using the local resources to build a massive fleet and airforce and using local recruits to man them. Then plan on invading the United States that, despite intelligence and knowing there's a build-up, sits on its hands doing nothing. It breaks suspension of disbelief.

I'm sorry to see that it seems as if TFA's poor worldbuilding was carried over to TLJ.
I pointed out before just how fucktarded the milieu created by Abrams & Co is. It's like The Sum of All Fears, only the neo-Nazis didn't just nuke Baltimore, but they wiped out the entire US military in the blast, save a handful of volunteers. Oh, and those neo-Nazis have more and better weapons now than anyone else in the world and have taken over almost the entire planet. By TLJ, the Good Guys are reduced to a single cruiser, a few smaller ships and...

In other words, under the leadership of General Leia the Good guys are in worse shape than the Rebellion was EVER in during the darkest days of the Galactic Empire, which had almost the entire galaxy's resources at its disposal! I wonder if the people responsible for this movie realize that they made a case for the notion that the Alliance shouldn't have bothered fighting the Emperor and simply let him win and rule the galaxy with an iron fist. All that fighting, all those deaths, all that destruction was for nothing.

Disney Star Wars is like watching an old pet die.
This, essentially.

The Jedi are dead, so Yoda, Luke, Qui Gon, and Anakin's sacrifices were all pointless, as some no name loser like Snoke can pop up and rule in less than a generation.

Same with the Rebellion/New Republic fell after all the sacrifices of Rogue One, Red Squadron, Ewoks, etc.

The message of the film, which is a bit of a slap in the face for SW fans, is that you shouldn't fight for the cause, as it's all pointless, because while you die, some rich person on space Monaco gambles away your fortune that you used to buy weapons.

Because otherwise the story is that TLJ is rebels should plan on using a Children's crusade to win the day.

Though, if they want to go with that, since Holdo orders people about in a fucking cocktail dress, they should run with it. Point out that the Rebellion/New Republic was comprised of the old rich elites of the Old Republic, and the Resistance is the same, and they need people who actually give a damn about the little guy.

That's how Caesar came to power over the Republic after all, he had the disenfranchised masses support while the Roman Senate didn't because they were rich and only cared about their own power.(more or less)

Palpatine seemed to have similar popularity. Make a story about that, and how, aside from Leia and Bail Organa, most of the Rebellion didn't care about the fates of the little guy unless they were joining their cause

I like Finn, but his sidequest is pointless, and I thought Rose was interesting. But it didn't make sense tactically, because the Resistance flotilla could make long distance phone calls, as they did with Maz, and choose a better battleground to wait out the First Order until reinforcements arrive, like the Asteroid field from ESB, or the dangerous nebula from SW Rebels, or any other spot that would give them an advantage and cost the First Order ships as they wait for Resistance reinforcements.

That's how you guerilla fight. You don't just run away until you run out of fuel, or not tell your volunteer militia that you're running into a safe spot to call for help. Because THEY ALREADY COULD. Running for a day and a half just cost them options. This is why mutinies happen, and why the Resistance had one.

Instead, have them trying to recruit actual reinforcements and discovering the truth about the weapons dealers, and then reveal that Holdo is behind it all.

Hell, Hondo turning out to be a war profiteer that was stringing the Resistance along and Finn and Rose discover that would have saved the film in my mind.
And the only person to survive until the ramming to not hyperdrive attack because she stayed on the capital ship that the First Order fleet ignored. It also rids us of the hyperdrive ram tactic plothole.

Cue third film in the sequel trilogy hunting Holdo down and ridding the galaxy of the weapons dealers who are fanning the flames of the war.
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi release thread (spoilers)

Post by Vendetta » 2017-12-23 05:54pm

FaxModem1 wrote:
2017-12-23 04:58pm
The message of the film, which is a bit of a slap in the face for SW fans, is that you shouldn't fight for the cause, as it's all pointless, because while you die, some rich person on space Monaco gambles away your fortune that you used to buy weapons.
Well, more like "Poe Dameron is a dipshit who should let other people should do the thinking".

Fighting for the cause wasn't the problem, picking stupid battles for the sake of fighting was the problem.

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi release thread (spoilers)

Post by Galvatron » 2017-12-23 06:20pm

Didn't Poe also turn out to be right about taking out the dreadnought? If they hadn't, wouldn't it have followed the Resistance fleet through hyperspace and destroyed them with its "fleet killer" cannons?

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi release thread (spoilers)

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2017-12-23 06:22pm

FaxModem1 wrote:
2017-12-23 04:58pm
Elfdart wrote:
2017-12-21 10:02pm
Mange wrote:
2017-12-15 12:21am

Because it's stupid. When I watched TFA (I haven't seen TLJ yet) I found it to be akin to Nazi escapees to Argentina using local scientists to build a hydrogen bomb, using the local resources to build a massive fleet and airforce and using local recruits to man them. Then plan on invading the United States that, despite intelligence and knowing there's a build-up, sits on its hands doing nothing. It breaks suspension of disbelief.

I'm sorry to see that it seems as if TFA's poor worldbuilding was carried over to TLJ.
I pointed out before just how fucktarded the milieu created by Abrams & Co is. It's like The Sum of All Fears, only the neo-Nazis didn't just nuke Baltimore, but they wiped out the entire US military in the blast, save a handful of volunteers. Oh, and those neo-Nazis have more and better weapons now than anyone else in the world and have taken over almost the entire planet. By TLJ, the Good Guys are reduced to a single cruiser, a few smaller ships and...

In other words, under the leadership of General Leia the Good guys are in worse shape than the Rebellion was EVER in during the darkest days of the Galactic Empire, which had almost the entire galaxy's resources at its disposal! I wonder if the people responsible for this movie realize that they made a case for the notion that the Alliance shouldn't have bothered fighting the Emperor and simply let him win and rule the galaxy with an iron fist. All that fighting, all those deaths, all that destruction was for nothing.

Disney Star Wars is like watching an old pet die.
This, essentially.

The Jedi are dead, so Yoda, Luke, Qui Gon, and Anakin's sacrifices were all pointless, as some no name loser like Snoke can pop up and rule in less than a generation.
I do not understand this mindset. An accomplishment is meaningless if it isn't permanent? History doesn't work that way. The world doesn't work that way. Were the sacrifices of the soldiers in World War II pointless, because there are still Nazis, or because the Cold War happened? I wouldn't say so.

The sacrifices of Yoda, Luke, etc. bought the galaxy a generation of peace and freedom. A generation of peace and freedom for trillions of sapient beings. If that isn't worth something I don't know what is.
Same with the Rebellion/New Republic fell after all the sacrifices of Rogue One, Red Squadron, Ewoks, etc.
As above.
The message of the film, which is a bit of a slap in the face for SW fans, is that you shouldn't fight for the cause, as it's all pointless, because while you die, some rich person on space Monaco gambles away your fortune that you used to buy weapons.

Because otherwise the story is that TLJ is rebels should plan on using a Children's crusade to win the day.
If that's the message, it has to be based on something more than "there are still powerful bad guys in the galaxy". Because that only means everything is pointless if you're a self-indulgent cynic who thinks that nothing is worth anything if it isn't perfect and everlasting.
Though, if they want to go with that, since Holdo orders people about in a fucking cocktail dress, they should run with it. Point out that the Rebellion/New Republic was comprised of the old rich elites of the Old Republic, and the Resistance is the same, and they need people who actually give a damn about the little guy.

That's how Caesar came to power over the Republic after all, he had the disenfranchised masses support while the Roman Senate didn't because they were rich and only cared about their own power.(more or less)
That sounds like a rather obvious metaphore for the Bernie or Bust view of politics- we're so pissed off that the elites don't care about us, so we'll put in a Nazi! That'll show them! :roll:

That could actually work, as long as you don't actually play it as "the Rebels are just as bad as the Empire". Because the last thing we need in our culture is more false equivalencies and whataboutism regarding fascist dictatorships, real or fictional.

I don't think it would be a very accurate reflection of the prior depiction of the Rebellion though. And personally, I don't think we need Star Wars to be more cynical and relativist. There's plenty of that going around as is. Sometimes, people need a little idealism in their lives.
Palpatine seemed to have similar popularity. Make a story about that, and how, aside from Leia and Bail Organa, most of the Rebellion didn't care about the fates of the little guy unless they were joining their cause
Is there any actual evidence, outside the old, now non-canon EU, that Palpatine was still wildly popular post-A New Hope?
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi release thread (spoilers)

Post by Galvatron » 2017-12-23 08:13pm

In the post-ROTJ EU, the Empire is regarded by many as having been better for the galaxy in spite of Palpatine. They acknowledge that he was corrupt, but they admire the system of government he created. Essentially, it's akin to "the Roman Empire is fine, it's Caligula that's evil."

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi release thread (spoilers)

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2017-12-23 08:23pm

Galvatron wrote:
2017-12-23 08:13pm
In the post-ROTJ EU, the Empire is regarded by many as having been better for the galaxy in spite of Palpatine. They acknowledge that he was corrupt, but they admire the system of government he created. Essentially, it's akin to "the Roman Empire is fine, it's Caligula that's evil."
Actually... I can buy that. Hell, I could buy a certain number of them liking Palpatine. I was thinking more during/immediately after his reign, but a few decades later?

There seems to be about 30-40% or so of any population that just longs for a "strong leader" (read: despot) to clear away all the little uncertainties of life.

If a few decades is enough for large chunks of the population to forget the lessons of Nazism, there's no reason why it wouldn't work the same way in Star Wars.
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi release thread (spoilers)

Post by Galvatron » 2017-12-23 08:29pm

Those who admire the Empire decades later seem to be the type who exhibit the same sort of frustration with politics and indecision that Anakin did before his fall. They're a younger generation who seem to yearn for the bygone days of adventure and excitement versus the boredom of peacetime prosperity and freedom.

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi release thread (spoilers)

Post by NecronLord » 2017-12-23 09:06pm

So, went and saw the film again for some technical observations.

The Infamous Bombers

As I suspected D'qar is clearly visible off the bow of the Fulminatrix throughout. It's therefore not directly below the ship. 'nuff said really until I have the DVD and can post screenshots.

Shield Permeability

Kylo is able to fly along the hull of the Raddus and strike it with his laser guns with comparable impunity. This is before the order is given to concentrate fire on the rear sections of the ships, when the fleet turns to run.

Image

This image is taken before the shields are focussed aft; Kylo also phsyically flies through the flight bay on the Raddus and fires missiles through into the hangar deck. The shileds are functional throughout.

In a successive scene, Ackbar gives the order to "concentrate rear shields" and it's at that point we see Kylo come about to fire on the bridge of the Raddus before he decides not to do so and his wingmen do so anyway.

At that point he is firing from 'outside' the shields but during his first run on the Raddus, he's clearly inside the shield.

Plunging Turbolasers

So, for a while I thought they might actually be an example of the filmmakers being very clever, and showing general relativity ("The laws of physics in a uniformly accelerated frame of reference are identical to the laws of physics in a gravitational field.") in action.

In principle, even the path of a beam of light will visibly bend under extreme acceleration (more here for the curious), and I thought for a while they were trying to show that as all the ships are in uniform acceleration during the chase, but sadly, this doesn't seem to be the case, as the plunging turbolaser fire starts up before the Resistance ships turn to flee, and it is also shown that the barrels of the ships are elevated on the wrong side of the direction of travel.

Image
Diagram is of course, approximate.

Potentially some inerital compensator type technology could be responsible for this, but absent other evidence it's not a case of the filmmakers trying to show realistic action as I had thought, sadly.
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi release thread (spoilers)

Post by FaxModem1 » 2017-12-23 09:33pm

<r><QUOTE author="The Romulan Republic" post_id="4043232" time="1514071360" user_id="13059"><s>
The Romulan Republic wrote:
2017-12-23 06:22pm
</s>
<QUOTE author="FaxModem1" post_id="4043229" time="1514066282" user_id="977"><s>
FaxModem1 wrote:
2017-12-23 04:58pm
</s>

This, essentially.<br/>
<br/>
The Jedi are dead, so Yoda, Luke, Qui Gon, and Anakin's sacrifices were all pointless, as some no name loser like Snoke can pop up and rule in less than a generation.<e>
</e></QUOTE>

I do not understand this mindset. An accomplishment is meaningless if it isn't permanent? History doesn't work that way. The world doesn't work that way. Were the sacrifices of the soldiers in World War II pointless, because there are still Nazis, or because the Cold War happened? I wouldn't say so.

The sacrifices of Yoda, Luke, etc. bought the galaxy a generation of peace and freedom. A generation of peace and freedom for trillions of sapient beings. If that isn't worth something I don't know what is.<br/>

<QUOTE><s>
</s>Same with the Rebellion/New Republic fell after all the sacrifices of Rogue One, Red Squadron, Ewoks, etc.<e>
</e></QUOTE>

As above.<e>
</e></QUOTE>

Nope, as Battlefront:2 showed us, it's been 30 years of fighting and their sacrifices were null and void.<br/> The peace was brief and inconsequential, and actually made things worse, as even Imperial member worlds were blasted to oblivion to try and cow the populace into submission while the strong core worlds of the New Republic get blown up by the First Order to cripple them. Mon Mothma's dream of a Republic came true, with all the corrupt baggage that comes with it, leading to a populace easily conquered and obliterated.

And if Darth Vader's prophecy was to bring balance to the force, then he did a pretty poor job of it, as he missed quite a spot there.

<QUOTE><s>
</s><QUOTE><s>
</s>The message of the film, which is a bit of a slap in the face for SW fans, is that you shouldn't fight for the cause, as it's all pointless, because while you die, some rich person on space Monaco gambles away your fortune that you used to buy weapons.<br/>
<br/>
Because otherwise the story is that TLJ is rebels should plan on using a Children's crusade to win the day.<e>
</e></QUOTE>

If that's the message, it has to be based on something more than "there are still powerful bad guys in the galaxy". Because that only means everything is pointless if you're a self-indulgent cynic who thinks that nothing is worth anything if it isn't perfect and everlasting.<e>
</e></QUOTE>

Watch the film, everything that came before is meaningless, and as Yoda says, "Let it go"<br/> . Old things should go away, and the previous 7 films were a waste of time, and you're stupid for caring about them.

<QUOTE><s>
</s><QUOTE><s>
</s>Though, if they want to go with that, since Holdo orders people about in a fucking cocktail dress, they should run with it. Point out that the Rebellion/New Republic was comprised of the old rich elites of the Old Republic, and the Resistance is the same, and they need people who actually give a damn about the little guy.<br/>
<br/>
That's how Caesar came to power over the Republic after all, he had the disenfranchised masses support while the Roman Senate didn't because they were rich and only cared about their own power.(more or less)<e>
</e></QUOTE>

That sounds like a rather obvious metaphore for the Bernie or Bust view of politics- we're so pissed off that the elites don't care about us, so we'll put in a Nazi! That'll show them! <E>:roll:</E> <br/>
<br/>
That could actually work, as long as you don't actually play it as "the Rebels are just as bad as the Empire". Because the last thing we need in our culture is more false equivalencies and whataboutism regarding fascist dictatorships, real or fictional.<br/>
<br/>
I don't think it would be a very accurate reflection of the prior depiction of the Rebellion though. And personally, I don't think we need Star Wars to be more cynical and relativist. There's plenty of that going around as is. Sometimes, people need a little idealism in their lives.<e>
</e></QUOTE>

That isn't what the movie is conveying. That may have been what they were trying to convey, but it came across as, "Everything before this film was meaningless."<br/>
<br/>
Rebels are nowhere near as bad as the Empire, due to the whole planetary genocide thing. However, that doesn't make the Rebels perfect. Note their rank structure, as Lando was instantly made a general based on the population he brought in from Bespin, Mon Mothma is leader with Ilbis and Organa based on the manpower they bring in and as original founders, and it's a very feudal fight,
with each 'cell' being based on the people they bring in.<br/>

<QUOTE><s>
</s><QUOTE><s>
</s>Palpatine seemed to have similar popularity. Make a story about that, and how, aside from Leia and Bail Organa, most of the Rebellion didn't care about the fates of the little guy unless they were joining their cause<e>
</e></QUOTE>

Is there any actual evidence, outside the old, now non-canon EU, that Palpatine was still wildly popular post-<I><s></s>A New Hope<e></e></I>?
<e>
</e></QUOTE>

Battlefront 2's campaign has the protagonists grieving over the Emperor's death.</r> Though the wonderfully moral Del Meeko also wants the Empire because it brings peace and order to the galaxy, or at least it did until the Emperor's death, in which it became even crazier and started blasting it's own worlds. That made him quit rather quick.
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi release thread (spoilers)

Post by Vympel » 2017-12-24 06:22am

I still don't understand how there's an entire discussion tangent about the way the Resistance bombers dropped their bombs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phGlo_TNDp0
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi release thread (spoilers)

Post by Shroom Man 777 » 2017-12-24 07:23am

Vympel wrote:
2017-12-24 06:22am
I still don't understand how there's an entire discussion tangent about the way the Resistance bombers dropped their bombs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phGlo_TNDp0
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi release thread (spoilers)

Post by fractalsponge1 » 2017-12-24 07:37am

Shroom Man 777 wrote:
2017-12-24 07:23am
Vympel wrote:
2017-12-24 06:22am
I still don't understand how there's an entire discussion tangent about the way the Resistance bombers dropped their bombs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phGlo_TNDp0
I fucking hate nerds.
The sequels have made me realize just how much I hate SW fans in general :P.

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi release thread (spoilers)

Post by Shroom Man 777 » 2017-12-24 07:41am

fractalsponge1 wrote:
2017-12-24 07:37am
Shroom Man 777 wrote:
2017-12-24 07:23am
Vympel wrote:
2017-12-24 06:22am
I still don't understand how there's an entire discussion tangent about the way the Resistance bombers dropped their bombs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phGlo_TNDp0
I fucking hate nerds.
The sequels have made me realize just how much I hate SW fans in general :P.
And how much you love guns instead. So the next starship you render will just be a giant gun and instead of disproportionately numerous turrets with guns, the turrets will contain the engines and sensors and windows and fighter decks instead. :P

I am sure the creator of Dash Rendar felt the same way, but towards shoulder pads! :o
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Shit! Man, I didn't think of that! It took Shroom to properly interpret the screams of dying people :D - PeZook
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi release thread (spoilers)

Post by Ace Pace » 2017-12-24 07:57am

Shroom Man 777 wrote:
2017-12-24 07:23am
Vympel wrote:
2017-12-24 06:22am
I still don't understand how there's an entire discussion tangent about the way the Resistance bombers dropped their bombs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phGlo_TNDp0
I fucking hate nerds.
Why? Because they act the same way everyone does, just over media?


I've been thinking some more and need a copy of the script (or a second screening). The Snoke scenes in particular are very good but the first one stands out, because if I recall correctly, as Kylo walks in and Hux walks out, Snoke starts throwing barbs at Hux's behavior which just as well fit Kylo and Kylo can't be blind to that. A very nice setup to the betrayal scene.
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