Galvatron wrote: ↑
ray245 wrote: ↑
I would argue that Lucas's personal authority is why the PT succeeded in other areas. Whether you like it or hate it, the PT had vastly expanded the cinematic scope of Star Wars. No more backwater planets. No more vague details about organizations. Designs that feel sufficiently different from the OT-era while retaining the SW feel. Vastly increase the scale of the Star Wars universe with massive armies and fleets.
I doubt we'll ever see eye-to-eye on this because you actually liked the prequels while I thought they were utter shit.
You obviously want more of what Lucas gave you with the PT and I don't, so you're already predisposed to interpret the "chaos" at Kennedy's LFL as evidence that she doesn't know what she's doing and will therefore ruin Star Wars. I obviously don't see it that way, but I also don't think that you're motivated by sexism. You're just motivated by admiration for George Lucas and I doubt that'll change any time soon no matter what Kennedy does.
And I think you are just motivated by your hatred of the PT that you consider everything non-PT as good. I don't think the prequels are perfect films in any way, but Lucas did drag the creative designers screaming and kicking by actually creating new design that isn't more TIE fighters and X-Wings. He also moved away from the typical backwater planets that most fans are used to.
Everything under Kennedy so far has been about recreating the OT in some form. The cancellation of the Clone Wars doesn't really help her case, as we know that the production team clearly wanted to produce more season.
Q99 wrote: ↑
More because insisting someone has the job but not the authority or respect is something I've only ever seen applied to women in positions of authority.
It's a bizarre argument that doesn't make a lot of sense, and it just-happens to be directed at a woman in charge who's got a rather impressive track record
of making good product dating back 30+ years and is a highly respected figure in the field.
When you're calling the producer of ET, Jurassic Park, and, well, two successful Star Wars films illegitimate to fill her own job, it raises questions as to what exactly you're meaning here.
And that means this must clearly be something sexist? In my opinion, the same criticism goes to all the WB executives trying to build the DCEU (before Geoff Johns stepped in) and failing at that task, especially with all the directors walking out from the various DCEU projects. The reason I talked about authority is that anyone who knew about movie production is aware of the creative conflict that often occurs between the producers and the directors.
Directors screaming about producers having no authority to intervene in film production is not a new phenomenon. Kennedy perceived weakness has nothing to do with her gender, but her history of not writing or directing anything. She has always been a producer, a well-respected producer, but only a producer. She also have no direct history in the production of Star Wars(prior to taking over Lucasfilm) in any way, which is problematic when she is hiring all the fanboys who grew up on Star Wars as kids.
All it takes is a director that thinks he is a bigger Star Wars fan than her, and he thinks he knows what is better for the SW film for the creative relationship to fall apart. We know that the Han Solo directors were given a choice to listen to her or walk away. They chose to walk away rather than to respect her.
Yea, there's a lot, which does raise questions as to the initial hiring process, but in all the cases it frankly sounds like the second move was a right call/improvement. Maybe it's taking risks that don't pan out some of the time or something.
Which, interestingly enough, has absolutely nothing to do with the authority of her job, which is still a bizarre tangent that originates with you.
I'm not talking about her authority as the head of Lucasfilm. I think everyone respects her ability at running the company and making sure the company is profitable. The problem is in her relationship with the group of directors she is hiring. Right now, the only two directors that seem to have a smooth creative relationship with Kennedy is JJ ABrams and Rian Johnson. Every other director have some sort of creative difference with her in some ways.
There are ways to criticize someone without attacking their basic legitimacy in rather questionable terminology, phrased to attack who she is and her status of ever holding that position, much more than what she does.
Except I'm not. This isn't about her as the president of Lucasfilm and whether she is the right person to run the company from the financial side of things. This is about whether she has an ability to make Star Wars directors listen to her and understand what she is trying to get out of a SW film as a film producer. If 4 directors and 1 writer didn't walk away from her, we won't be having this conversation at all.
The problem is SW is a franchise that many people held dear to, with many Hollywood directors being heavily influenced by the film as kids. This is a franchise where everybody has their own interpretation of what is the best SW. Some fans like the prequels, while others hated them. So who is right and who is wrong? The only person that has that authority to basically shut fans up is basically George Lucas because he created the whole thing.
Almost everyone else who isn't George Lucas himself will have massive problems with imposing their creative authority in the production of any new Star Wars films. The people who might have some form of that authority might be Kasdan because he wrote ESB. Other than that, maybe Filoni because he worked so closely with Lucas during the Clone Wars.
Do directors respect her as a well-known producer of so many hit films? Sure, I don't doubt that. But do directors respect her as the producer of a Star Wars movie? Now that is a very different issue.
I mean, you call my response troll bait, but I assure you, I brought it up not to troll, but because I found your argument to be completely weird in your very, very eyebrow raising choice of angle of attack. You didn't start with 'isn't it kinda questionable instincts that she picked wrong in the first place, even if she cleans it up later?' nah, you flat-out called her illegitimate in her job. That is not normal criticism for producers or creative directors.
Questionable instinct is only true if that happens on a one-off occasion. Producers make mistakes in the career. Nothing wrong with that. But to make the same mistakes over and over again in a span of a few years? I think any other lesser-known producers would've been sacked a long time ago. Kevin Feige made one major mistake in picking a director. But that's one director among 14 directors he hired for the MCU.
I've never called her illegitimate in her job. That's something you made up in your mind. What I said was that the directors she hired don't respect her authority to tell them what is the right interpretation of Star Wars. Whether she is running Lucasfilm is not the issue here. Those directors clearly respected her authority as Lucasfilm president to walk away from the project without raising any sort of legal fight.
Her gender has nothing to do with this, so don't try and turn it into this discussion. It's the fact that she isn't George Lucas, the creator of Star Wars that makes it hard for her to gain authority over a bunch of SW fanboys. On top of that, her creating the storygroup basically just send a message to directors/writers that she isn't good at storytelling herself. Then that is the issue of her not having any history of writing a script or directing a film personally. Lucas could have told them off because he directed SW movies himself, and wrote the scripts for Star Wars himself. He might not be the best at directing actors, but his experience as a director meant that any new directors he hired will not be willing enough to challenge his authority.
This sort of thing will always happen whenever there is a passing of the torch from the creator to someone else. Especially when George Lucas himself is happily undermining Kennedy's authority with all the public comments about how he disagreed with her approach towards TFA.
Humans are such funny creatures. We are selfish about selflessness, yet we can love something so much that we can hate something.