Anyone Tried Machete Order

PSW: discuss Star Wars without "versus" arguments.

Moderator: Vympel

JLTucker
BANNED
Posts: 3043
Joined: 2006-02-26 01:58am

Anyone Tried Machete Order

Post by JLTucker »

I came across this order last night while perusing Reddit.

For those of you who aren't familiar with it, the order is this: Episodes IV, V, II, III, VI.

Have any of you tried it? If so, how does the story flow? If not, why? Do you like this order? Does it preserve the twist in ESB? I plan on doing it soon to determine if I like it or not but i wanted to ask here first.
User avatar
Elheru Aran
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 13073
Joined: 2004-03-04 01:15am
Location: Georgia

Re: Anyone Tried Machete Order

Post by Elheru Aran »

I don't see how it wouldn't preserve the twist in ESB as you're still seeing ANH and ESB in the original order. The only tweak is then you watch AOTC and ROTS after ESB to see what happened with Anakin and the starts of the Empire before you watch ROTJ to see how the whole Vader/Luke thing pans out. Honestly I wouldn't think it'd change a whole lot unless you've never seen the prequels or even the original trilogy... it might help you appreciate the prequels in relation to the OT if you've already watched them the one time back in the day, I guess.
It's a strange world. Let's keep it that way.
User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 21559
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: Anyone Tried Machete Order

Post by The Romulan Republic »

One needs to come up with a revised version of this order to determine where you fit Rogue One in (I presume TFA would just come after VI, as per the original).

Seeing Rogue One first, I expect, would very much affect your perceptions of IV, but I don't know if Vader would carry nearly as much weight in the film without the context of having seen at least the OT first.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
User avatar
Gandalf
SD.net White Wizard
Posts: 16285
Joined: 2002-09-16 11:13pm
Location: A video store in Australia

Re: Anyone Tried Machete Order

Post by Gandalf »

I've done the Machete order, and it works well until you get back to ROTJ. It just falls down completely because the Jabba scenes drag on and the battles aren't as impressive after the massive CGI shows of the prequels. The throne room scenes are decent, but I think by that point I just wanted out. :P
The Romulan Republic wrote: 2017-08-24 01:58amSeeing Rogue One first, I expect, would very much affect your perceptions of IV, but I don't know if Vader would carry nearly as much weight in the film without the context of having seen at least the OT first.
Meh, fuck Rogue One. It adds nothing to the Skywalker story.
"Oh no, oh yeah, tell me how can it be so fair
That we dying younger hiding from the police man over there
Just for breathing in the air they wanna leave me in the chair
Electric shocking body rocking beat streeting me to death"

- A.B. Original, Report to the Mist

"I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately."
- George Carlin
User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 21559
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: Anyone Tried Machete Order

Post by The Romulan Republic »

I'm of the view that while the big trilogy films should be about the Skywalker saga, the universe is big enough to support stand-alone stories that explore other aspects of it.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
User avatar
Ace Pace
Hardware Lover
Posts: 8456
Joined: 2002-07-07 03:04am
Location: Wasting time instead of money
Contact:

Re: Anyone Tried Machete Order

Post by Ace Pace »

So we tried Machete order in the runup to EP7.

I came away disappointed, can't speak to the other SDNers in the marathon. I felt going to TPM/AOTC right from ESB was just lame, it's just out of place. Moving back to ROTJ was actually pretty good, clean battles are so much better than the ROTS opening battle, which is a total dumpster fire.
Brotherhood of the Bear | HAB | Mess | SDnet archivist |
JLTucker
BANNED
Posts: 3043
Joined: 2006-02-26 01:58am

Re: Anyone Tried Machete Order

Post by JLTucker »

I heard that by adding II and III after V helps with the backstory re Anakin and makes the redemption in VI far more meaningful.
Adam Reynolds
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2354
Joined: 2004-03-27 04:51am

Re: Anyone Tried Machete Order

Post by Adam Reynolds »

Given that you have almost certainly seen all of them already, I don't see the point. Especially given that it keeps the worst of the prequels as well. Jar Jar may be annoying, but he is still better than a series of terrible romance scenes that are supposed to be the emotional core of the story.
JLTucker
BANNED
Posts: 3043
Joined: 2006-02-26 01:58am

Re: Anyone Tried Machete Order

Post by JLTucker »

Adam Reynolds wrote: 2017-08-24 11:14am Given that you have almost certainly seen all of them already, I don't see the point. Especially given that it keeps the worst of the prequels as well. Jar Jar may be annoying, but he is still better than a series of terrible romance scenes that are supposed to be the emotional core of the story.
Meh. I like AOTC and ROTS. Don't care for some parts but overall worth watching imo.
User avatar
Elfdart
The Anti-Shep
Posts: 10644
Joined: 2004-04-28 11:32pm

Re: Anyone Tried Machete Order

Post by Elfdart »

My ex and I watched them on TV 4,5 then 6 right up to the point where Luke leaves Dagobah for the last time. Then we watched 1-3, followed by the rest of 6. It was like Godfather 2* with the long flashbacks of young Vito. She thought it was like going from a cowboy or a WW2 movie to The Wizard of Oz and then back again. It really does add to ROTJ, the weakest of the six movies.

*Francis Coppola did a "reverse" machete order where they took all the scenes from the three Godfather movies and rearranged them in chronological order, starting with Vito in Sicily. It shows up as The Godfather Saga every so often on HBO or Cinemax.
Image
fractalsponge1
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1650
Joined: 2006-04-30 08:04pm
Contact:

Re: Anyone Tried Machete Order

Post by fractalsponge1 »

Gandalf wrote: 2017-08-24 02:03amMeh, fuck Rogue One. It adds nothing to the Skywalker story.
They've had 6 movies. Time to move on. I'm going to be really pissed if it turns out Rey is somehow related to the Skywalkers.
Adam Reynolds
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2354
Joined: 2004-03-27 04:51am

Re: Anyone Tried Machete Order

Post by Adam Reynolds »

Especially given that this would actually be the more obvious reveal at this point. It would be more interesting if she went through the movie with the increasing belief that she really was Luke's daughter only to find out from Kylo Ren that she is not. She could even take up the name Rey Skywalker and decide to keep it regardless of who she really was.

The novel Bloodlines makes it rather unlikely that it was Luke, because she was already on Jakku before Ben Solo fell to the Dark Side.
User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 21559
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: Anyone Tried Machete Order

Post by The Romulan Republic »

fractalsponge1 wrote: 2017-08-27 06:39pm
Gandalf wrote: 2017-08-24 02:03amMeh, fuck Rogue One. It adds nothing to the Skywalker story.
They've had 6 movies. Time to move on. I'm going to be really pissed if it turns out Rey is somehow related to the Skywalkers.
Its been so heavily implied already that she's Luke's daughter that it would probably irritate me if she wasn't.

And they have the stand-alones for non-Skywalker stories. I don't mind the main trilogies following the Skywalkers.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
User avatar
Gandalf
SD.net White Wizard
Posts: 16285
Joined: 2002-09-16 11:13pm
Location: A video store in Australia

Re: Anyone Tried Machete Order

Post by Gandalf »

fractalsponge1 wrote: 2017-08-27 06:39pm
Gandalf wrote: 2017-08-24 02:03amMeh, fuck Rogue One. It adds nothing to the Skywalker story.
They've had 6 movies. Time to move on. I'm going to be really pissed if it turns out Rey is somehow related to the Skywalkers.
Right, and Episodes 1-6 are the story of Anakin Skywalker.

Rogue One adds fuck all to that, so it may as well not be a part of the Machete order.
"Oh no, oh yeah, tell me how can it be so fair
That we dying younger hiding from the police man over there
Just for breathing in the air they wanna leave me in the chair
Electric shocking body rocking beat streeting me to death"

- A.B. Original, Report to the Mist

"I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately."
- George Carlin
JLTucker
BANNED
Posts: 3043
Joined: 2006-02-26 01:58am

Re: Anyone Tried Machete Order

Post by JLTucker »

Gandalf wrote: 2017-08-28 10:36am
fractalsponge1 wrote: 2017-08-27 06:39pm
Gandalf wrote: 2017-08-24 02:03amMeh, fuck Rogue One. It adds nothing to the Skywalker story.
They've had 6 movies. Time to move on. I'm going to be really pissed if it turns out Rey is somehow related to the Skywalkers.
Right, and Episodes 1-6 are the story of Anakin Skywalker.

Rogue One adds fuck all to that, so it may as well not be a part of the Machete order.
Where did this idea that 1-6 are about Anakin come from?
JLTucker
BANNED
Posts: 3043
Joined: 2006-02-26 01:58am

Re: Anyone Tried Machete Order

Post by JLTucker »

I'm doing Machete order this weekend. I'll report back with my thoughts. Skipping Rogue One, however, because it's too damned sad.
User avatar
Elheru Aran
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 13073
Joined: 2004-03-04 01:15am
Location: Georgia

Re: Anyone Tried Machete Order

Post by Elheru Aran »

JLTucker wrote: 2017-08-28 12:09pm
Gandalf wrote: 2017-08-28 10:36am
fractalsponge1 wrote: 2017-08-27 06:39pm

They've had 6 movies. Time to move on. I'm going to be really pissed if it turns out Rey is somehow related to the Skywalkers.
Right, and Episodes 1-6 are the story of Anakin Skywalker.

Rogue One adds fuck all to that, so it may as well not be a part of the Machete order.
Where did this idea that 1-6 are about Anakin come from?
Lucas, IIRC. Something along the lines of 'Star Wars is the story of Anakin Skywalker' or something like that.
It's a strange world. Let's keep it that way.
User avatar
RogueIce
_______
Posts: 13385
Joined: 2003-01-05 01:36am
Location: Tampa Bay, Florida, USA
Contact:

Re: Anyone Tried Machete Order

Post by RogueIce »

So aside from "lol ep1 sux" what makes this any different from the Flashback Order?

IV, V, I, II, III, VI is the usual way some people have suggested bringing someone in who is completely new to Star Wars, rather than Chronological (so as to preserve the Luke-Vader twist), basically making the PT a flashback prior to Vader's ultimate redemption.

As for this order, I feel like it would jumble things up too much. Padme acts like old friends to Obi-Wan and Anakin, which would come out of nowhere. The whole Sith conspiracy angle comes out of nowhere. Why is Anakin's mom suddenly in danger, why does he hate Tatooine, wait this whole slave business who is this Watto guy, etc. Basically most of Anakin's plot will make no sense without Episode I.

As someone who knows the story, I guess you could roll with it if your dislike for Episode I is strong enough. But as a modification of the Flashback Order so far as introducing someone into Star Wars...no, not really.
Image
"How can I wait unknowing?
This is the price of war,
We rise with noble intentions,
And we risk all that is pure..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, Forever (Rome: Total War)

"On and on, through the years,
The war continues on..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, We Are All One (Medieval 2: Total War)
"Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than fear." - Ambrose Redmoon
"You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." - Harvey Dent, The Dark Knight
JLTucker
BANNED
Posts: 3043
Joined: 2006-02-26 01:58am

Re: Anyone Tried Machete Order

Post by JLTucker »

Elheru Aran wrote: 2017-08-28 04:08pm
JLTucker wrote: 2017-08-28 12:09pm
Gandalf wrote: 2017-08-28 10:36am

Right, and Episodes 1-6 are the story of Anakin Skywalker.

Rogue One adds fuck all to that, so it may as well not be a part of the Machete order.
Where did this idea that 1-6 are about Anakin come from?
Lucas, IIRC. Something along the lines of 'Star Wars is the story of Anakin Skywalker' or something like that.
Yeah. His word means absolute shit, imo. Goes for al directors trying to say something "factual" about their work.
User avatar
RogueIce
_______
Posts: 13385
Joined: 2003-01-05 01:36am
Location: Tampa Bay, Florida, USA
Contact:

Re: Anyone Tried Machete Order

Post by RogueIce »

JLTucker wrote: 2017-08-28 04:30pm
Elheru Aran wrote: 2017-08-28 04:08pmLucas, IIRC. Something along the lines of 'Star Wars is the story of Anakin Skywalker' or something like that.
Yeah. His word means absolute shit, imo. Goes for al directors trying to say something "factual" about their work.
Not Anakin specifically at this point, but Kathleen Kennedy said they're about the Skywalker family:
  • Kennedy revealed that the core movies are considered the "Saga" movies by Lucasfilm, while the spin-offs are "Anthology" movies (A terminology now replaced in titling by the phrase "A Star Wars Story," judging by recent Rogue One announcements.).
    "The Saga films focus on the Skywalker family saga," she explains. "The stories follow a linear narrative that connects to the previous six films. The Force Awakens follows Return of the Jedi and continues that generational story. The Anthology films offer opportunities to explore fresh characters, new storylines and a variety of genres inside the Star Wars universe."
The Hollywood Reporter

So as far as Lucasfilm is concerned, the Episodes are indeed about the Skywalker family. Since they're the ones making them, well, I'd say it's a safe bet that's where the narrative focus will be.
Image
"How can I wait unknowing?
This is the price of war,
We rise with noble intentions,
And we risk all that is pure..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, Forever (Rome: Total War)

"On and on, through the years,
The war continues on..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, We Are All One (Medieval 2: Total War)
"Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than fear." - Ambrose Redmoon
"You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." - Harvey Dent, The Dark Knight
User avatar
Elheru Aran
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 13073
Joined: 2004-03-04 01:15am
Location: Georgia

Re: Anyone Tried Machete Order

Post by Elheru Aran »

JLTucker wrote: 2017-08-28 04:30pm
Elheru Aran wrote: 2017-08-28 04:08pm
JLTucker wrote: 2017-08-28 12:09pm
Where did this idea that 1-6 are about Anakin come from?
Lucas, IIRC. Something along the lines of 'Star Wars is the story of Anakin Skywalker' or something like that.
Yeah. His word means absolute shit, imo. Goes for al directors trying to say something "factual" about their work.
So the man who came up with the entire universe and most of the original characters and plots, doesn't know what he's talking about and the fan knows better. #okay #thatslikejustyouropinionman

I realize he's changed his stance on some things a few times. You think GRRM didn't tweak things every now and then with ASOIAF? Robert Jordan with Wheel of Time? Stephen King with The Shining?

And I find your quote-marks around 'factual' interesting. I'm not sure if you're aware, but it's a *work of fiction*... which he created, or at least had a large hand in creating. I think he's entitled to have an opinion about how it works. You *have* heard the phrase 'Word of God' right?
It's a strange world. Let's keep it that way.
User avatar
RogueIce
_______
Posts: 13385
Joined: 2003-01-05 01:36am
Location: Tampa Bay, Florida, USA
Contact:

Re: Anyone Tried Machete Order

Post by RogueIce »

Elheru Aran wrote: 2017-08-28 04:36pmSo the man who came up with the entire universe and most of the original characters and plots, doesn't know what he's talking about and the fan knows better. #okay #thatslikejustyouropinionman

I realize he's changed his stance on some things a few times. You think GRRM didn't tweak things every now and then with ASOIAF? Robert Jordan with Wheel of Time? Stephen King with The Shining?

And I find your quote-marks around 'factual' interesting. I'm not sure if you're aware, but it's a *work of fiction*... which he created, or at least had a large hand in creating. I think he's entitled to have an opinion about how it works. You *have* heard the phrase 'Word of God' right?
He's probably going with Death of the Author here.
Image
"How can I wait unknowing?
This is the price of war,
We rise with noble intentions,
And we risk all that is pure..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, Forever (Rome: Total War)

"On and on, through the years,
The war continues on..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, We Are All One (Medieval 2: Total War)
"Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than fear." - Ambrose Redmoon
"You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." - Harvey Dent, The Dark Knight
User avatar
Elheru Aran
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 13073
Joined: 2004-03-04 01:15am
Location: Georgia

Re: Anyone Tried Machete Order

Post by Elheru Aran »

RogueIce wrote: 2017-08-28 04:38pm
Elheru Aran wrote: 2017-08-28 04:36pmSo the man who came up with the entire universe and most of the original characters and plots, doesn't know what he's talking about and the fan knows better. #okay #thatslikejustyouropinionman

I realize he's changed his stance on some things a few times. You think GRRM didn't tweak things every now and then with ASOIAF? Robert Jordan with Wheel of Time? Stephen King with The Shining?

And I find your quote-marks around 'factual' interesting. I'm not sure if you're aware, but it's a *work of fiction*... which he created, or at least had a large hand in creating. I think he's entitled to have an opinion about how it works. You *have* heard the phrase 'Word of God' right?
He's probably going with Death of the Author here.
Oh god. If we're going to get into literary criticism territory beyond just 'hey does mixing up the order of these movies make them play better', I'm out. It's all entirely too goddamn subjective.
It's a strange world. Let's keep it that way.
JLTucker
BANNED
Posts: 3043
Joined: 2006-02-26 01:58am

Re: Anyone Tried Machete Order

Post by JLTucker »

I feel that movies must stand on their own and if a director has to explicitly say something about a movie, then it isn't conveyed in the work. Kind of like JKR saying Dumbledore is gay. Yeah, well, book doesn't convey that, so STFU, JKR.

Now, Kennedy saying the Saga is about the Skywalkers is conveyed in all the movies. Saying they're about Anakin is BS and not conveyed outside of The PT. OT is Luke, as evidenced by his journey.
User avatar
SolarpunkFan
Jedi Knight
Posts: 586
Joined: 2016-02-28 08:15am

Re: Anyone Tried Machete Order

Post by SolarpunkFan »

The Romulan Republic wrote: 2017-08-24 01:58am One needs to come up with a revised version of this order to determine where you fit Rogue One in (I presume TFA would just come after VI, as per the original).
Since this is centered on the main storyline I think Rogue One can be left out and people wouldn't miss anything.

Well... people would be missing a blatant and very soulless-feeling cash-grab tie-in made by the evilest empire of all (Disney), but don't most people want to miss out on that? Leaving it out is fine in either case. :P

(Seriously, give R1 the Atari E.T. treatment, at least the Holiday Special brought us an enjoyable cartoon and a funny Rifftrax.)
Seeing current events as they are is wrecking me emotionally. So I say 'farewell' to this forum. For anyone who wonders.
Post Reply