How did the AT AT's breach the shield

[texanmarauder]

This is when Wong refrences the SWVD.

which contains non canon info that you stated wasn't in the article.

as for my issues with wongs site as a whole: the point I was making, as I said before, is that wong likes to go by visuals except for the ICS, which he goes to great lengths to quote extensively throughout his website. since the ICS is not canon, for sure since mid 2014, most of the info in his site is no longer applicable, including weapon ranges. (that was the topic in the first place, just saying) plus some, shall we say, deliberately misconstrued pages that were definitely deliberate. that's my nice way of saying that he flat out lied on at least one page for sure.

as for that specific article, i used his own words to support my position. and since i didn't agree with wong, of course I'm "willfully and selectively ignorant". heaven forbid i disagree with wong. as it stands, like i said in my last post, plasma fits better than laser or particle weapon. his only objection against plasma in that article was

And finally, they can't be plasmoids trapped in self-generated "moving magnetic containment bottles" as some have suggested, because not only is there no known mechanism to create such a phenomenon, but damage effects can sometimes precede the visible portion of the bolt by a dozen metres or more, while a containment bottle would prevent interaction until the moment the visible bolt impacts on the target.

considering that the number of times we see the damage effects precede the visible portion is few and far between, it sounds like the magnetic bottle failed. he also mentions the shot that landed a direct hit to the falcons starboard aft shield in ESB. we see green Globish like sparks fly off from the impact point. obviously a laser isn't going to have that kind of effect, nor would a true particle beam. but plasma when the bottle hits shields........that just might since the only shape it has is defined by the magnetic bottle.

plus its not like plasma isn't used in weaponry. we know it was used by clone troopers during the clone wars, by the umbarans, lightsabers use plasma, gungans, the naboo, its everywhere. blasters must use it since a magnetic seal isn't going to affect lasers or particle beams like that, but would affect plasma. magnets are used to guide particle beams, but wouldn't cause a ricochet effect. however, a magnetic seal vs a magnetic jacketed plasma bolt, that makes sense.

now, having said all that, back to the original point of turbolaser range. you said

A. The range at which you can fire and the range at which you can hit something can be different.

we know from the SWTCW episode "rising malevolence" that they couldn't fire because the malevolence was out of range. this can be for one of two reasons. they cant fire at all if not in range due to some technical issue or firing at something out of range will do no damage due to distance. I'm leaning toward the latter since most of their weapons were manually aimed and can certainly be fired manually AND since the malevolence was in visual range and stationary I'm sure they could have hit it. that being the case, the only reason not to fire would be the weapons having no effect. another example would be the TIE sentry that catches the falcon in the alderaan asteroid field. it was a few dozen meters in front of the falcon, and yet still out of range. the quad guns are manually aimed from the controls, or the cockpit. if it would have done any good, han would have been firing till he was blue in the face.

*edit* even wong calls the superlaser a beam weapon. so at least he and i agree on that point.

[Rhadamantus]

This is when Wong refrences the SWVD.

which contains non canon info that you stated wasn't in the article.

as for my issues with wongs site as a whole: the point I was making, as I said before, is that wong likes to go by visuals except for the ICS, which he goes to great lengths to quote extensively throughout his website. since the ICS is not canon, for sure since mid 2014, most of the info in his site is no longer applicable, including weapon ranges. (that was the topic in the first place, just saying) plus some, shall we say, deliberately misconstrued pages that were definitely deliberate. that's my nice way of saying that he flat out lied on at least one page for sure.

as for that specific article, i used his own words to support my position. and since i didn't agree with wong, of course I'm "willfully and selectively ignorant". heaven forbid i disagree with wong. as it stands, like i said in my last post, plasma fits better than laser or particle weapon. his only objection against plasma in that article was

And finally, they can't be plasmoids trapped in self-generated "moving magnetic containment bottles" as some have suggested, because not only is there no known mechanism to create such a phenomenon, but damage effects can sometimes precede the visible portion of the bolt by a dozen metres or more, while a containment bottle would prevent interaction until the moment the visible bolt impacts on the target.

considering that the number of times we see the damage effects precede the visible portion is few and far between, it sounds like the magnetic bottle failed. he also mentions the shot that landed a direct hit to the falcons starboard aft shield in ESB. we see green Globish like sparks fly off from the impact point. obviously a laser isn't going to have that kind of effect, nor would a true particle beam. but plasma when the bottle hits shields........that just might since the only shape it has is defined by the magnetic bottle.

plus its not like plasma isn't used in weaponry. we know it was used by clone troopers during the clone wars, by the umbarans, lightsabers use plasma, gungans, the naboo, its everywhere. blasters must use it since a magnetic seal isn't going to affect lasers or particle beams like that, but would affect plasma. magnets are used to guide particle beams, but wouldn't cause a ricochet effect. however, a magnetic seal vs a magnetic jacketed plasma bolt, that makes sense.

now, having said all that, back to the original point of turbolaser range. you said

A. The range at which you can fire and the range at which you can hit something can be different.

we know from the SWTCW episode "rising malevolence" that they couldn't fire because the malevolence was out of range. this can be for one of two reasons. they cant fire at all if not in range due to some technical issue or firing at something out of range will do no damage due to distance. I'm leaning toward the latter since most of their weapons were manually aimed and can certainly be fired manually AND since the malevolence was in visual range and stationary I'm sure they could have hit it. that being the case, the only reason not to fire would be the weapons having no effect. another example would be the TIE sentry that catches the falcon in the alderaan asteroid field. it was a few dozen meters in front of the falcon, and yet still out of range. the quad guns are manually aimed from the controls, or the cockpit. if it would have done any good, han would have been firing till he was blue in the face.

*edit* even wong calls the superlaser a beam weapon. so at least he and i agree on that point.

Or, possibly, that the ship could dodge. AFAIK, the ship still had engines then. So if they fired from distant range, it would have dodged.

[texanmarauder]

Or, possibly, that the ship could dodge. AFAIK, the ship still had engines then. So if they fired from distant range, it would have dodged.

its engines weren't even activated. it was stationary.

[Rhadamantus]

Or, possibly, that the ship could dodge. AFAIK, the ship still had engines then. So if they fired from distant range, it would have dodged.

its engines weren't even activated. it was stationary.

Just because a ship is currently stationary doesn't mean it can't move.

[texanmarauder]

Or, possibly, that the ship could dodge. AFAIK, the ship still had engines then. So if they fired from distant range, it would have dodged.

its engines weren't even activated. it was stationary.

Just because a ship is currently stationary doesn't mean it can't move.

and how long would it take to fire up the engines? especially since accurate aim for that ion cannon depends on holding position? it cant fire off axis, only straight. so if they wanted to to fire, they couldn't move. the weapon was charging at that time. Plo'Koon and company didn't know what it did at the time. so it makes sense that if they could have fired in order to stop it, they would have.

[Rhadamantus]

its engines weren't even activated. it was stationary.

Just because a ship is currently stationary doesn't mean it can't move.

and how long would it take to fire up the engines? especially since accurate aim for that ion cannon depends on holding position? it cant fire off axis, only straight. so if they wanted to to fire, they couldn't move. the weapon was charging at that time. Plo'Koon and company didn't know what it did at the time. so it makes sense that if they could have fired in order to stop it, they would have.

The engine could have been idling.

[texanmarauder]

Just because a ship is currently stationary doesn't mean it can't move.

and how long would it take to fire up the engines? especially since accurate aim for that ion cannon depends on holding position? it cant fire off axis, only straight. so if they wanted to to fire, they couldn't move. the weapon was charging at that time. Plo'Koon and company didn't know what it did at the time. so it makes sense that if they could have fired in order to stop it, they would have.

The engine could have been idling.

idling? that's your response? is it a space ship or a car? idling or not, it seems that the malevolence cant fire while moving. since at that time they were still charging the ion cannon, they were still stationary. and I'm pretty sure that even if they could move or were moving a target that big can be hit at a distance even with manual gunners. its called leading your target. so again, there is really no reason not to fire if their weapons could have done anything at that distance. it probably wouldn't have even taken much seeing as how a handful of proton torpedoes from a few Y-wings caused an overload.

[Rhadamantus]

and how long would it take to fire up the engines? especially since accurate aim for that ion cannon depends on holding position? it cant fire off axis, only straight. so if they wanted to to fire, they couldn't move. the weapon was charging at that time. Plo'Koon and company didn't know what it did at the time. so it makes sense that if they could have fired in order to stop it, they would have.

The engine could have been idling.

idling? that's your response? is it a space ship or a car? idling or not, it seems that the malevolence cant fire while moving. since at that time they were still charging the ion cannon, they were still stationary. and I'm pretty sure that even if they could move or were moving a target that big can be hit at a distance even with manual gunners. its called leading your target. so again, there is really no reason not to fire if their weapons could have done anything at that distance. it probably wouldn't have even taken much seeing as how a handful of proton torpedoes from a few Y-wings caused an overload.

A 3 km wide ship moving at several thousand g at multiple megameter range is not something you can hit with manual gunners.

[texanmarauder]

The engine could have been idling.

idling? that's your response? is it a space ship or a car? idling or not, it seems that the malevolence cant fire while moving. since at that time they were still charging the ion cannon, they were still stationary. and I'm pretty sure that even if they could move or were moving a target that big can be hit at a distance even with manual gunners. its called leading your target. so again, there is really no reason not to fire if their weapons could have done anything at that distance. it probably wouldn't have even taken much seeing as how a handful of proton torpedoes from a few Y-wings caused an overload.

A 3 km wide ship moving at several thousand g at multiple megameter range is not something you can hit with manual gunners.

actually, try almost 5km. 4845m to be exact. multiple megameter range? try within 1 mega meter tops, as seen from the bridge of the triumphant. which again, was out of range of the weapons on the Triumphant and the other venator class cruisers. and g isn't a speed measurement. its a velocity measurement which is totally different. speed is a scalar quantity. velocity is a vector quantity. not that it matters since you miss the point entirely that the ship WAS NOT MOVING when the "out of range" call was made.

[Rhadamantus]

They have subluminal weapons. A ship, especially one with droids, could detect shots fired from that range and dodge.

[texanmarauder]

They have subluminal weapons. A ship, especially one with droids, could detect shots fired from that range and dodge.

now you are just being funny have you seen those droids? and how fast do those turbolasers travel? hmmm? probably a lot faster than you think. speed of light is 300,000kps abouts. they are within 1,000kms give or take a few. meaning that if turbolaser bolts are much faster than even TIE fighters or A-wings. which means that they must travel several hundred kps. meaning you might have 2 or 3 seconds tops to respond, if that long. nope. you are grasping at straws.

[Rhadamantus]

They have subluminal weapons. A ship, especially one with droids, could detect shots fired from that range and dodge.

now you are just being funny have you seen those droids? and how fast do those turbolasers travel? hmmm? probably a lot faster than you think. speed of light is 300,000kps abouts. they are within 1,000kms give or take a few. meaning that if turbolaser bolts are much faster than even TIE fighters or A-wings. which means that they must travel several hundred kps. meaning you might have 2 or 3 seconds tops to respond, if that long. nope. you are grasping at straws.

They have droid brains controlling at least some of their ships. Moving a several thousand g for even 1 second would let them dodge dozens of kilometers. Also, you've managed to massively derail the entire thread into whether they should have fired earlier in one episode of the clone wars.

[Batman]

A measly 1000 gees for a single second means the ship is almost five kilometres from where it started out. 2 seconds, almost 20. 3 seconds, 44.

[texanmarauder]

They have subluminal weapons. A ship, especially one with droids, could detect shots fired from that range and dodge.

now you are just being funny have you seen those droids? and how fast do those turbolasers travel? hmmm? probably a lot faster than you think. speed of light is 300,000kps abouts. they are within 1,000kms give or take a few. meaning that if turbolaser bolts are much faster than even TIE fighters or A-wings. which means that they must travel several hundred kps. meaning you might have 2 or 3 seconds tops to respond, if that long. nope. you are grasping at straws.

They have droid brains controlling at least some of their ships. Moving a several thousand g for even 1 second would let them dodge dozens of kilometers. Also, you've managed to massively derail the entire thread into whether they should have fired earlier in one episode of the clone wars.

its not a question of whether they should have fired, it was a question of if they even could. which they couldn't. not only that, but there is no denying that in every episode of SWTCW where droids control a ship their reactions are slow and confused. even in the movies their reactions are slow and clumsy. in the time it took those droids to realize that they were being shot at and report it, since they never seem to detect weapons actually being fired, they would already be taking hits. not that this is relevant since the venators were out of range. the original point that turbolasers have ranges in the millions of km is debunked. their max effective range is maybe MAYBE 500km. and that's being generous. any further, up to 1000km, they might have a slim chance of hitting something if they blanket the area.

[Rhadamantus]

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Droid_brain. How do you manage to misinterpret everything I say?
Maximum effective range against a starship that can accelerate at thousands of g, and maximum effective range against a fucking planet are different. This has been repeatedly pointed out to you.

[Rhadamantus]

Also, the Malevolence is clearly moving across the gas giant during the episode.

[texanmarauder]

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Droid_brain. How do you manage to misinterpret everything I say?
Maximum effective range against a starship that can accelerate at thousands of g, and maximum effective range against a fucking planet are different. This has been repeatedly pointed out to you.

funny, we have never seen sublights accelerate any SW cap ship at "thousands of g". as for a planet, the only time we ever see a planetary bombardment on screen they couldn't even isolate their fire on a small shield from orbit. they had to blanket the area. so clearly, their "effective range" on a planet isn't very effective if they have to spray and pray. you are the one that dragged the issue of a ship being able to dodge into this. i was pointing out that the ranges stated in the ICS, your non canon and super inflated source, are ridiculous and inaccurate and used the situation with the triumphant and malevolence to prove it. as for the malevolence moving, as i already stated its an irrelevant point since the venators were out of range.

and having a droid brain doesn't mean that said droid brain controls the ship. its used as a processing computer. meaning, to activate the engines, you still have to press the right buttons to give that command. the droid brain processes the command and executes it. the one whole paragraph in that link you posted:

Droid brains, sometimes referred to as data-brains, were a form of processing computer usually used in droids. They could also be used in starships, and the modified YT-1300 light freighter known as the Millennium Falcon was equipped with three: an R3-series astromech droid's brain, a V-5 transport droid brain and a slicer droid brain.[1]

its source? Star Wars: Absolutely Everything You Need to Know, a book that the author was forced to put a disclaimer in the back that states "Star Wars: Absolutely Everything You Need to Know draws mostly upon information from the Expanded Universe that Lucasfilm now considers to be "Legends"". so who misinterpreted what here?

[Rhadamantus]

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Droid_brain. How do you manage to misinterpret everything I say?
Maximum effective range against a starship that can accelerate at thousands of g, and maximum effective range against a fucking planet are different. This has been repeatedly pointed out to you.

funny, we have never seen sublights accelerate any SW cap ship at "thousands of g". as for a planet, the only time we ever see a planetary bombardment on screen they couldn't even isolate their fire on a small shield from orbit. they had to blanket the area. so clearly, their "effective range" on a planet isn't very effective if they have to spray and pray. you are the one that dragged the issue of a ship being able to dodge into this. i was pointing out that the ranges stated in the ICS, your non canon and super inflated source, are ridiculous and inaccurate and used the situation with the triumphant and malevolence to prove it. as for the malevolence moving, as i already stated its an irrelevant point since the venators were out of range.

and having a droid brain doesn't mean that said droid brain controls the ship. its used as a processing computer. meaning, to activate the engines, you still have to press the right buttons to give that command. the droid brain processes the command and executes it. the one whole paragraph in that link you posted:

Droid brains, sometimes referred to as data-brains, were a form of processing computer usually used in droids. They could also be used in starships, and the modified YT-1300 light freighter known as the Millennium Falcon was equipped with three: an R3-series astromech droid's brain, a V-5 transport droid brain and a slicer droid brain.[1]

its source? Star Wars: Absolutely Everything You Need to Know, a book that the author was forced to put a disclaimer in the back that states "Star Wars: Absolutely Everything You Need to Know draws mostly upon information from the Expanded Universe that Lucasfilm now considers to be "Legends"". so who misinterpreted what here?

Literally every single example in the movies shows thousands of gs.
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tec ... sion2.html.
If a ship is already moving, it's engines are clearly powered up and they can jink it.
The ship was directed by a cyborg with inhumanly fast reflexes.
Canon is canon.

[texanmarauder]

Literally every single example in the movies shows thousands of gs.

here we go again. do you even know what that means or did you just parrot one of wongs articles again? g isn't just acceleration, its a change of velocity. meaning how fast you change direction over time, not how fast you move from point a to point b. a thrown baseball struck by a bat is 3000g. that doesn't mean the baseball is traveling 30kps, just like it doesn't mean that a ship can go from zero to 30kps in an instant. and as we saw in ESB ISDs don't change direction too quick. that alone blows the thousands of g out of the water. there are multiple examples of this too.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tec ... sion2.html. If a ship is already moving, it's engines are clearly powered up and they can jink it. The ship was directed by a cyborg with inhumanly fast reflexes. Canon is canon.

yes, lets use a page from wongs biased, trekkie hating fansite that ignores cinematic time vs real time differences, physics measurements as well as makes huge assumptions (hence the phrase/word "if we assume" and "interpretation" used regularly in almost every article) about things happening off screen. plus, he couldn't even be bothered to accurately label his screenshots. his credibility isn't the highest as a source, even before most of his sources went the way of the proverbial dodo. and i assume you mean general grievous? in that situation, dooku was in command, not grievous. and in the episode "downfall of a droid" grievous didn't even know he was being fired on until his fleet was burning. he may have fast physical reflexes, but hes not tied into the ship itself and relies on his droids to control the ship and relay information. that takes a lot longer than a couple of seconds. there are multiple examples of those droids being woefully inadequate in that area as well. as you say, canon is canon.

and again, your whole argument is missing the point. the triumphant was OUT OF RANGE and COULDNT fire while being in visual range from the triumphant bridge. that's easily within 1000km. if they couldn't fire due to being out of range of something less than 1,000km away, then how could they target something thousands, let alone millions, of kilometers away? much less hit it? you never addressed this, just kept changing the subject. i think that even if they did hit it the bolt wouldn't do any damage simply because the energy in the bolt will be used up by then. its not self sustaining.

[Rhadamantus]

Literally every single example in the movies shows thousands of gs.

here we go again. do you even know what that means or did you just parrot one of wongs articles again? g isn't just acceleration, its a change of velocity. meaning how fast you change direction over time, not how fast you move from point a to point b. a thrown baseball struck by a bat is 3000g. that doesn't mean the baseball is traveling 30kps, just like it doesn't mean that a ship can go from zero to 30kps in an instant. and as we saw in ESB ISDs don't change direction too quick. that alone blows the thousands of g out of the water. there are multiple examples of this too.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tec ... sion2.html. If a ship is already moving, it's engines are clearly powered up and they can jink it. The ship was directed by a cyborg with inhumanly fast reflexes. Canon is canon.

yes, lets use a page from wongs biased, trekkie hating fansite that ignores cinematic time vs real time differences, physics measurements as well as makes huge assumptions (hence the phrase/word "if we assume" and "interpretation" used regularly in almost every article) about things happening off screen. plus, he couldn't even be bothered to accurately label his screenshots. his credibility isn't the highest as a source, even before most of his sources went the way of the proverbial dodo. and i assume you mean general grievous? in that situation, dooku was in command, not grievous. and in the episode "downfall of a droid" grievous didn't even know he was being fired on until his fleet was burning. he may have fast physical reflexes, but hes not tied into the ship itself and relies on his droids to control the ship and relay information. that takes a lot longer than a couple of seconds. there are multiple examples of those droids being woefully inadequate in that area as well. as you say, canon is canon.

and again, your whole argument is missing the point. the triumphant was OUT OF RANGE and COULDNT fire while being in visual range from the triumphant bridge. that's easily within 1000km. if they couldn't fire due to being out of range of something less than 1,000km away, then how could they target something thousands, let alone millions, of kilometers away? much less hit it? you never addressed this, just kept changing the subject. i think that even if they did hit it the bolt wouldn't do any damage simply because the energy in the bolt will be used up by then. its not self sustaining.

Your misunderstanding of acceleration is disputed by canon. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Resurgen ... tlecruiser. (search for speed)
You have yet to show any examples of actual bias. You just yell it every time it's convienent, and use that he used legends sources to ignore the conclusions he has drawn from Canon.
The republic commander couldn't know that the ship wouldn't dodge. We know ships have fast accelerations. We know ships can dodge.
This is the direct fucking quote from this episode. At no point did they say they couldn't fire. They said they weren't in range.
- Open fire.
- We're not in range yet sir.

Read more: http://www.springfieldspringfield.co.uk ... ode=s01e02.
I honestly am astonished. I knew that you were incredibly, insanely, ridiculously stupid, but I would have thought you would have gotten that effective range against a planet, which, to repeat, CANNOT DODGE, and a ship which can and does, are different by now.
Your idiotic theory that beams would dissipate because of the energy being used up has as much evidence as mine that the beam would turn into a unicorn, i.e NONE.

Also, I've made a checklist for your next comment.
1. Insult Mike Wong, say he is biased and so completely untrustworthy despite no evidence.
2. Misunderstand several scientific terms.
3. Ignore Canon evidence.
4. Misrepresent canon evidence.
5. Make shit up.
6. Outright lie.
7. Try to conflate theoretical range and effective range.
If your next comment includes any of those, consider this conversation done. If you would like to argue why it would be impossible for the Malovolence to dodge without lying, please do so.

[Rhadamantus]

Also,how do people get the village idiot title?

[Batman]

I think it's generally one or more of the administration thinking 'okay this was it' rather than a formalized process but if you're thinking texanmarauder has earned it, I concur

[texanmarauder]

Your misunderstanding of acceleration is disputed by canon. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Resurgen ... tlecruiser. (search for speed)You have yet to show any examples of actual bias. You just yell it every time it's convienent, and use that he used legends sources to ignore the conclusions he has drawn from Canon.

ok. an article on a ship that we never see maneuver on screen. in fact, we have never seen any ISD travel at the speeds you are talking about. lmfao his entire site is riddled with pages that quote non canon sources. as for bias, would you like that alphabetically or categorically?

The republic commander couldn't know that the ship wouldn't dodge. We know ships have fast accelerations. We know ships can dodge.
This is the direct fucking quote from this episode. At no point did they say they couldn't fire. They said they weren't in range.
- Open fire.
- We're not in range yet sir.

you are only fucking repeating what i fucking told you. (see? i can use fucking too!) common sense and logic say that if they could have fired in that situation then they would have. last time i checked, common sense and logic are approved here. however, since the target was out of range, they couldn't. again, the whole point had to do with range, not whether a ship could dodge. you are the one that brought the whole dodging spiel into this.

Read more: http://www.springfieldspringfield.co.uk ... ode=s01e02.

why would i read more when i can just watch the episode? the clip with that particular quote that you keep repeating back to me, that i stated in the first place, is available on Netflix and youtube.

I honestly am astonished. I knew that you were incredibly, insanely, ridiculously stupid,

this from the person who thought that the seppy ships were controlled by a droid brain.

but I would have thought you would have gotten that effective range against a planet, which, to repeat, CANNOT DODGE, and a ship which can and does, are different by now.

while those two ranges being different is true, the only actual on screen planet bombardment we see is in SWR. i already addressed this.

Your idiotic theory that beams would dissipate because of the energy being used up has as much evidence as mine that the beam would turn into a unicorn, i.e NONE.

my personal belief is that turbolasers are indeed plasma based. if so, then heat dissipation from radiation would cause the plasma to transition back to a gas. not only that, but scientists have already proven that the vacuum of space isn't quite empty, containing microscopic particles, cosmic dust (space dust) and such. google it. which means that be it laser, particle beam, plasma or what have you, the further the bolt travels the more energy that is going to be required to sustain it. since it cant replenish that energy, it will eventually lose it. laws of thermodynamics and entropy at work.

Also, I've made a checklist for your next comment.

funny. this actually amuses me

1. Insult Mike Wong, say he is biased and so completely untrustworthy despite no evidence.

for starters, check out his turbolaser power page http://www.stardestroyer.net/tlc/Power/index.html and tell me that the flak bursts that claims in those screen shots are turbolasers are not flak burst. ill give you a hint. they weren't even IN the asteroid field at the time and those "asteroids" are not visible on screen at any time, even with slow motion. the only time we actually see asteroids being destroyed is during one specific scene.

2. Misunderstand several scientific terms.

you mean like using the term "acceleration" to describe speed?

3. Ignore Canon evidence.

define canon. you seem to be confused on that issue. not to mention ignoring seppy droids being general failures when at the controls of ships.

4. Misrepresent canon evidence.

droid brain. nuff said.

5. Make shit up.

million km plus ranges?

6. Outright lie.

2+2=fish!

7. Try to conflate theoretical range and effective range.

more like ranges taken from canon, aka on screen, rather than a book that was never canon with the films to start with and sure as hell isn't canon now.

If your next comment includes any of those, consider this conversation done. If you would like to argue why it would be impossible for the Malovolence to dodge without lying, please do so.

i really don't give two shits and a giggle since the venators were out of range and couldn't fire on the malevolence anyway. whether or not it could dodge is irrelevant. as i already said.

[Rhadamantus]

Your misunderstanding of acceleration is disputed by canon. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Resurgen ... tlecruiser. (search for speed)You have yet to show any examples of actual bias. You just yell it every time it's convienent, and use that he used legends sources to ignore the conclusions he has drawn from Canon.

ok. an article on a ship that we never see maneuver on screen. in fact, we have never seen any ISD travel at the speeds you are talking about. lmfao his entire site is riddled with pages that quote non canon sources. as for bias, would you like that alphabetically or categorically?

The republic commander couldn't know that the ship wouldn't dodge. We know ships have fast accelerations. We know ships can dodge.
This is the direct fucking quote from this episode. At no point did they say they couldn't fire. They said they weren't in range.
- Open fire.
- We're not in range yet sir.

you are only fucking repeating what i fucking told you. (see? i can use fucking too!) common sense and logic say that if they could have fired in that situation then they would have. last time i checked, common sense and logic are approved here. however, since the target was out of range, they couldn't. again, the whole point had to do with range, not whether a ship could dodge. you are the one that brought the whole dodging spiel into this.

Read more: http://www.springfieldspringfield.co.uk ... ode=s01e02.

why would i read more when i can just watch the episode? the clip with that particular quote that you keep repeating back to me, that i stated in the first place, is available on Netflix and youtube.

I honestly am astonished. I knew that you were incredibly, insanely, ridiculously stupid,

this from the person who thought that the seppy ships were controlled by a droid brain.

but I would have thought you would have gotten that effective range against a planet, which, to repeat, CANNOT DODGE, and a ship which can and does, are different by now.

while those two ranges being different is true, the only actual on screen planet bombardment we see is in SWR. i already addressed this.

Your idiotic theory that beams would dissipate because of the energy being used up has as much evidence as mine that the beam would turn into a unicorn, i.e NONE.

my personal belief is that turbolasers are indeed plasma based. if so, then heat dissipation from radiation would cause the plasma to transition back to a gas. not only that, but scientists have already proven that the vacuum of space isn't quite empty, containing microscopic particles, cosmic dust (space dust) and such. google it. which means that be it laser, particle beam, plasma or what have you, the further the bolt travels the more energy that is going to be required to sustain it. since it cant replenish that energy, it will eventually lose it. laws of thermodynamics and entropy at work.

Also, I've made a checklist for your next comment.

funny. this actually amuses me

1. Insult Mike Wong, say he is biased and so completely untrustworthy despite no evidence.

for starters, check out his turbolaser power page http://www.stardestroyer.net/tlc/Power/index.html and tell me that the flak bursts that claims in those screen shots are turbolasers are not flak burst. ill give you a hint. they weren't even IN the asteroid field at the time and those "asteroids" are not visible on screen at any time, even with slow motion. the only time we actually see asteroids being destroyed is during one specific scene.

2. Misunderstand several scientific terms.

you mean like using the term "acceleration" to describe speed?

3. Ignore Canon evidence.

define canon. you seem to be confused on that issue. not to mention ignoring seppy droids being general failures when at the controls of ships.

4. Misrepresent canon evidence.

droid brain. nuff said.

5. Make shit up.

million km plus ranges?

6. Outright lie.

2+2=fish!

7. Try to conflate theoretical range and effective range.

more like ranges taken from canon, aka on screen, rather than a book that was never canon with the films to start with and sure as hell isn't canon now.

If your next comment includes any of those, consider this conversation done. If you would like to argue why it would be impossible for the Malovolence to dodge without lying, please do so.

i really don't give two shits and a giggle since the venators were out of range and couldn't fire on the malevolence anyway. whether or not it could dodge is irrelevant. as i already said.

1. Huh, you really can't take a hint. This is my last comment, please stop wasting my time.
2. It is canon information from a recent book.
3. You are free to ignore the conclusions he draws from legends material, but ignoring the facts of canon because his site also included legends is idiotic.
4. Either you are dumber than parrots, or you are lying because you refuse to admit defeat. EFFECTIVE RANGE IS NOT THEORETICAL RANGE. They can be the same. Against a ship which can, and very like does, dodge, they are almost certainly not. You have repeatedly ignored this in favor of a convulted misunderstanding of a quote from a tv show that contradicts all canon evidence, also to preserve you from admitting you are wrong.
5. Because you have repeatedly outright lied about what the episode says and shows.
6. There are seppy ships which are heavily automated. You are unable to acknowledge that, because then you would be wrong.
7. You actually did admit it. Which makes it weird that you denied it in the same reply.
8. If they are plasma in a containment field, then something is happening to keep them plasma. Given we have no evidence as to how long it could be if they were plasma, your insistence that it can't be a million kilometers is perplexing.
9. What are you even saying there?
10. I used acceleration to mean acceleration, you lying idiot. I have never said it meant speed. You have just lied about to avoid acknowledging that the Malovolence could accelerate.
11. THE MOVIES ARE FUCKING CANON. You have outright lied about shit just to avoid acknowledging that you are wrong.
12. You have outright lied about shit just to avoid acknowledging that you are wrong.
13. Which were in the ICS and have no evidence against them.
14. FOR the 10 fucking millionth time, you just lie about this. Effective range is not actual range. They were not in effective range. Them saying they weren't in range could be referring to actual range, but there is no good reason to suppose so. Given that previously canon materials based on canon sources indicated that actual ranges are indeed that long, and given that your insistence on short ranges has no evidence besides minimalism and lying, it is reasonable to conclude that actual ranges are indeed that long. Which concludes this massive thread derailment, and conversation.

[texanmarauder]

i could go on and on, but its obvious that very few people here are going to listen with an open mind. think what you want. parrot wongs bullshit site all you want. vomit up ICS numbers till you choke on it. this isn't a forum. its a joke. so far all i have seen is different variations of "because wong or saxton said so!" instead of actual answers or discussions. i can prove that his site is way out of date, biased, and that he flat out lied to try to make an argument more than once, but if i say water is wet after wong says its dry, you will take the word of your hero, such as it is, every time without hesitation or thinking. i think i will take my debates to a forum that actually requires an IQ. peace out.