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The Romulan Republic wrote:Oh, no, of course her defection wasn't out of principle, but at the same time, I don't see why disloyalty to the space Nazis is a mark against her.

Going all out to prove herself next time is a possibility. Another is that she's been sacked/slated for execution and is now working as a mercenary or something, though that change would work better if who she was before was more strongly established, I think.

Because we're judging her effectiveness as a villain, not her righteousness as a person?

Crazedwraith wrote:

The Romulan Republic wrote:Oh, no, of course her defection wasn't out of principle, but at the same time, I don't see why disloyalty to the space Nazis is a mark against her.

Going all out to prove herself next time is a possibility. Another is that she's been sacked/slated for execution and is now working as a mercenary or something, though that change would work better if who she was before was more strongly established, I think.

Because we're judging her effectiveness as a villain, not her righteousness as a person?

Well, in that case, how loyal she is is almost completely irrelevant. A devoted, fearless fanatic is one kind of effective victim. A self-interested backstabber is another.

Either can be written well.

A mark against her potential as a strong antagonist. Cause like her own people would throw her into a gulag if they knew.

But I like your alternatives.

Yeah, I don't think there's an actual bad character (like the Gungan who shall not be named) in TFA. Just characters who have not been developed to their full potential yet.

Sorry for bumping the thread, but the second trailer will be shown during Monday Night Football tomorrow: Star Wars on Twitter

Version 2 of the trailer is up now
I'd call it a spoiler don't watch if you want to go in blind

Trailer technical notes I've picked up

Kylo hangar scene:
First order still uses AT-AT and AT-ST along with the new Gorilla Walkers

Shuttle being used as a observer?
Gorilla walkers about 2x larger than AT-ATs

Storm troopers can walk on still cooling lava, I guess ceramic armor has its advantages :-p

Rey is holding that lightsaber awfully close to the emitter...

Kylo has a tattoo/tech bandage for his scar, I was hoping for a half mechanical face shield

Rebel fleet is on the run from the Supremacy, strongly hinted that Kylo is going to take out the command bridge that looks like it similar to the Mon Remonda from the old essential guide to vehicles (nice retro targetting screen that has no bearing on the current orientation...)
Rebel fleet seems to be focused on the Raddus-Class Pickleship (a few KM, looks like a nice combination of Home One and the McQuarrie Mon Cal concept cruisers)

Narrower ship exploding that looks more like a lengthened gallofree or something like and MC30c

two other ships in the escape shot, a very asymmetrical frigate with tiny tiny engines

also another ship in the background that looks like a saucer with two 6 engine corvette blocks on the back, might be pretty big given how it is shown, maybe 500m?


many many instances of bubble shields around the rebel ships



reverse shot with Kylo doing strafing run, Supremacy in the background, maybe 4 or 5 unidentified mon cals that are similar to the ones destroyed by the starkiller in Force awakens

I really want the big clicky button on Kylo's control yoke, it probably makes a very satisfying mechanical noise when pressed.

Obligatory for new Trilogy "fly through a ship scene" (Stop it J J, you aren't supposed to work on this movie)

Chewie looks a little too shiny, hopefully not CGI

Porg human teeth are scary, especially the lack of an upper jaw, once you see it you can't unsee it.


Poe in what looks to be escape pods (low ceiling, not sure why the observation windows but they are getting massacred.

Xwing with a booster jet... not really sure why this is needed, but maybe to Awing the Supremacy Command Bridge? Multiple New Order SD's in the background

Xwings blowing up surface greebles on Pizza slice DumbNought... seriously why even have anti star fighter lasers the size of office buildings if the star fighters are just going to blow them up. At least the Death Star lasers were designed to be anti capital ship and the fighters could fly around them...


Bombers aren't using their ball turrets vs ties... why have defensive lasers at all?

Pizza Dumbnought has really weird thrusters, looks like 70's style turn signal lamps

last scene is heavily implied to be linked together, but the lighting is very different.

Obviously early to say, but the new trailer seems like this movie will be directly addressing the controversy over how powerful Rey is vis-a-vis the other Jedi we've seen depicted. It appears as though Luke pretty much explicitly says Rey is the most powerful Force user he has ever seen.

Ziggy Stardust wrote: ↑2017-10-10 06:24pm Obviously early to say, but the new trailer seems like this movie will be directly addressing the controversy over how powerful Rey is vis-a-vis the other Jedi we've seen depicted. It appears as though Luke pretty much explicitly says Rey is the most powerful Force user he has ever seen.

Or rather, she and Kylo are.

She and somebody are. Given the relative ease with which a completely untrained Rey beat Kylo's ass Luke might be referring to Snoke.

Batman wrote: ↑2017-10-10 07:11pm She and somebody are. Given the relative ease with which a completely untrained Rey beat Kylo's ass Luke might be referring to Snoke.

Kylo had a shot in his side!

I guess it *could* be Snoke, but Kylo's the one who'd naturally be talented and where training went very wrong.

Q99 wrote: ↑2017-10-10 09:13pm
Kylo had a shot in his side!

I guess it *could* be Snoke, but Kylo's the one who'd naturally be talented and where training went very wrong.

We see a scene of Luke emerging from beneath rubble, and then another shot of a burning building in the background as (Luke?) sits down next to R2. Flashback to Ben Solo going rogue?

There at the end, after Reye's voiceover, begging someone to show her "her place", Kylo's hand reaches out to help -someone-. Could it be Reye? Could it be his mother?
There's already speculation that the scenes of Kylo agonizing over the decision to fire his ship's weapons and the scenes of Leia are connected. Killing a Dad who may not have been around much is one thing -- killing the mother who raised you is quite another.

Q99 wrote: ↑2017-10-10 06:31pm Or rather, she and Kylo are.

Even if Kylo is the vague "other" that Luke refers to in the dialogue, I think the dialogue still implies that Rey is more powerful anyway. Luke says something along the lines, "It didn't scare me then, but it does now." Obviously a vague statement that could be taken multiple ways, but I take it to mean that Rey is even more powerful (a perspective I think is further emboldened by Snoke's voice-over in the trailer, which also seems to be implying that he thinks Rey is special, though as always your mileage may vary since these are vague statements taken out of context in a trailer).

For me it sounds more like "it didn't scare me then, but it should have, and I won't make the same mistake twice"

Exactly, eMeM. "I learned training super-strong kids is a really bad idea." But he did sense raw power like that 'once before,' so it's the same level of stuff.

Batman wrote: ↑2017-10-10 07:11pm She and somebody are. Given the relative ease with which a completely untrained Rey beat Kylo's ass Luke might be referring to Snoke.

Or Palpatine. Which would make the Rey Palpatine theory even better.

Come to think of it, if Rey is the Emperor's granddaughter, wouldn't that make her his rightful heir? Could Episode IX end with her uniting what's left of the First Order and the New Republic into a second (and benevolent) Galactic Empire?

That would certainly be an interesting twist, and one that will probably spark more than a few fanfics even if it isn't borne out in the films.

Palpatine I never thought of given Luke was a bumbling neophyte for the entire OT but yes, that would open up some interesting possibilities.

If they aren't going to kill of Leia, how do you think they'll explain her absence from Ep 9?

That "it didn't scare me then, but it should have.." line reminds me of Luke right before he journeyed into the cave on Dagobah.

Q99 wrote: ↑2017-10-11 09:17am Exactly, eMeM. "I learned training super-strong kids is a really bad idea." But he did sense raw power like that 'once before,' so it's the same level of stuff.

Yeah, I'm keen to see what Luke's Jedi academy looked like. I wonder if he had various educational specialists in, or just made it Uncle Luke's Force Jesus Camp.

Gandalf wrote: ↑2017-10-11 10:10pm

Q99 wrote: ↑2017-10-11 09:17am Exactly, eMeM. "I learned training super-strong kids is a really bad idea." But he did sense raw power like that 'once before,' so it's the same level of stuff.

Yeah, I'm keen to see what Luke's Jedi academy looked like. I wonder if he had various educational specialists in, or just made it Uncle Luke's Force Jesus Camp.

"Kind of a ramshackle place you got here, Mr. Skywalker. Can we have a tour before dropping our Little Billy Midichlorian off here?"
"Of course! Here's the Crucible obstacle course, here's the picnic area, here's the Sarlaac Pit, and there are the bunk houses."
"Mr. Skywalker, what's that building over there?"
"The Ancient Jedi...um...outhouses."
/parents push their children back into the shuttle.

biostem wrote: ↑2017-10-11 09:26pm If they aren't going to kill of Leia, how do you think they'll explain her absence from Ep 9?

Busy on Coruscant re-rebuilding the Republic.

Tv spot

Galvatron wrote: ↑2017-10-11 04:43pm

Batman wrote: ↑2017-10-10 07:11pm She and somebody are. Given the relative ease with which a completely untrained Rey beat Kylo's ass Luke might be referring to Snoke.

Or Palpatine. Which would make the Rey Palpatine theory even better.

Come to think of it, if Rey is the Emperor's granddaughter, wouldn't that make her his rightful heir? Could Episode IX end with her uniting what's left of the First Order and the New Republic into a second (and benevolent) Galactic Empire?

A canonical film appearing to validate the position of the Empire apologists and promoting the "benevolent dictatorship" illusion would pretty much be a deal-breaker, and might even force me into refusing to acknowledge the ST as canon.