What would be your ultimate kitbashed (i.e. "ugly") starfighter design in the Star Wars Legends universe?

PSW: discuss Star Wars without "versus" arguments.

Moderator: Vympel

Chris Parr
Padawan Learner
Posts: 221
Joined: 2007-11-18 08:54am

What would be your ultimate kitbashed (i.e. "ugly") starfighter design in the Star Wars Legends universe?

Post by Chris Parr »

Myself, I would take a TIE Advanced fighter, like the one Darth Vader used, minus the solar ionization wings or whatever they're called and add the wing and engine and rotating collar of a B-Wing to create a B-Wing TIE Fighter hybrid—the "B-W-TIE" or "Bow-Tie"!

So does anyone else have any ideas for "Ugly" Starfighters?
User avatar
Shroom Man 777
FUCKING DICK-STABBER!
Posts: 21222
Joined: 2003-05-11 08:39am
Location: Bleeding breasts and stabbing dicks since 2003
Contact:

Re: What would be your ultimate kitbashed (i.e. "ugly") starfighter design in the Star Wars Legends universe?

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

Your threads are the worst.

I'd have an AT-AT's head mated with a Zeta-class cargo ship (the super Lambdas from Rogue One), creating a repulsor-lifted, flying, perhaps slow and heavily armed gun platform. It can float over the horizon and snipe opponents with AT-AT-grade firepower.

A bastard AT-TE and LAAT hybrid. LAATE. A flying tank with a dorsal turret. The AT-TE's body blended with the LAAT's wings and Hind-Dish features.
Image "DO YOU WORSHIP HOMOSEXUALS?" - Curtis Saxton (source)
shroom is a lovely boy and i wont hear a bad word against him - LUSY-CHAN!
Shit! Man, I didn't think of that! It took Shroom to properly interpret the screams of dying people :D - PeZook
Shroom, I read out the stuff you write about us. You are an endless supply of morale down here. :p - an OWS street medic
Pink Sugar Heart Attack!
User avatar
Elheru Aran
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 13073
Joined: 2004-03-04 01:15am
Location: Georgia

Re: What would be your ultimate kitbashed (i.e. "ugly") starfighter design in the Star Wars Legends universe?

Post by Elheru Aran »

Shroom Man 777 wrote: I'd have an AT-AT's head mated with a Zeta-class cargo ship (the super Lambdas from Rogue One), creating a repulsor-lifted, flying, perhaps slow and heavily armed gun platform. It can float over the horizon and snipe opponents with AT-AT-grade firepower.
Would you say you went from A to Z there? :v

Chris Parr wrote:Myself, I would take a TIE Advanced fighter, like the one Darth Vader used, minus the solar ionization wings or whatever they're called and add the wing and engine and rotating collar of a B-Wing to create a B-Wing TIE Fighter hybrid—the "B-W-TIE" or "Bow-Tie"!
Your pun is bad and you should be ashamed.

To give a little context: 'Uglies' that have *already* been done-- at least in Legendaries canon-- are TYE-wings (Y-wing engines with TIE cockpit), Y-TIEs (Y-wing cockpit/TIE radiators), X-Interceptors or X-TIEs (X-wing bodies, TIE panels), Chir'daki (Twi'lek fighter; TIE body, X-wing... wings on a rotating housing), Clutches (TIE cockpits with three fins welded at 120 degrees around the body), and Z-ceptors (a hideous amaglam of TIE and Z-95 bits). There's also the YT-wing, which is a YT-type freighter cockpit married to a B-wing body in place of the normal pod, the Z-TIE (Z-95 body and TIE panels), and innumerable variants on the basic TIE configuration but most of those are production line fighters rather than 'kitbashes' (though out of universe: they totally are).
It's a strange world. Let's keep it that way.
Simon_Jester
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 30165
Joined: 2009-05-23 07:29pm

Re: What would be your ultimate kitbashed (i.e. "ugly") starfighter design in the Star Wars Legends universe?

Post by Simon_Jester »

Uglies never make sense, really. Anything as small, tightly integrated, and high performance as a fighter needs all its parts to work together; you'll never get performance out of a random combination of parts that comes anywhere the performance you'd get out of the same parts if they were built together into a craft whose parts were all designed to fit together.

Speaking of maladapted vessels...

By the way, Shroom, I'd forgotten, how did that thing with the short-range boat that wasn't supposed to be able to make it all the way from China go? I seem to remember you saying the voyage was a success.

But I remembered it a few times over the past few years, because the whole thing was so hilariously insane.
This space dedicated to Vasily Arkhipov
User avatar
Eternal_Freedom
Castellan
Posts: 10361
Joined: 2010-03-09 02:16pm
Location: CIC, Battlestar Temeraire

Re: What would be your ultimate kitbashed (i.e. "ugly") starfighter design in the Star Wars Legends universe?

Post by Eternal_Freedom »

Shroom's mention of a flying tank with a dorsal turret brings back fond memories of BARIS and the small but disturbingly advanced armour-plate factory...

As for the actual question, to hell with uglies. I'd take a basic TIE fighter over one of those mashups, at least the TIE is actually designed as a complete ship.
Baltar: "I don't want to miss a moment of the last Battlestar's destruction!"
Centurion: "Sir, I really think you should look at the other Battlestar."
Baltar: "What are you babbling about other...it's impossible!"
Centurion: "No. It is a Battlestar."

Corrax Entry 7:17: So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again.
User avatar
Elheru Aran
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 13073
Joined: 2004-03-04 01:15am
Location: Georgia

Re: What would be your ultimate kitbashed (i.e. "ugly") starfighter design in the Star Wars Legends universe?

Post by Elheru Aran »

Eternal_Freedom wrote: As for the actual question, to hell with uglies. I'd take a basic TIE fighter over one of those mashups, at least the TIE is actually designed as a complete ship.
Even bearing in mind that some of these have shield generators and the TIE doesn't?
It's a strange world. Let's keep it that way.
User avatar
Eternal_Freedom
Castellan
Posts: 10361
Joined: 2010-03-09 02:16pm
Location: CIC, Battlestar Temeraire

Re: What would be your ultimate kitbashed (i.e. "ugly") starfighter design in the Star Wars Legends universe?

Post by Eternal_Freedom »

Elheru Aran wrote:
Eternal_Freedom wrote: As for the actual question, to hell with uglies. I'd take a basic TIE fighter over one of those mashups, at least the TIE is actually designed as a complete ship.
Even bearing in mind that some of these have shield generators and the TIE doesn't?
Yeah. Hell, despite all the stuff about them in Legends cannon, in the OT films TIEs actually do rather well despite lacking shields - see how many X- and Y-Wings they killed over the DS1, and they didn't appear to have overwhelming numbers then either.

Of course, something like a TIE Defender would be the best bet for a TIE series, but I'll take a purpose-built and properly-designed fighter over a kitbash any day.

EDIT: I mean, if I came up to you and said "I'm going to give you a tank, you can have either an Abrams/Challenger 2/Leopard 2 OR....you can have this fun homemade tank I built out of a leftover Sherman, Churchill and T-34! Sure it's a kitbash, but look how thick the steel armour is!" i'm pretty certain you'd take the Abrams or the Challenger.

There's also the thing that if you climb into a TIE fresh from the factory, you can be 99% confident it wil work properly, unless you have some kind of uber-mechanic I wouldn't be that confident for an ugly.
Baltar: "I don't want to miss a moment of the last Battlestar's destruction!"
Centurion: "Sir, I really think you should look at the other Battlestar."
Baltar: "What are you babbling about other...it's impossible!"
Centurion: "No. It is a Battlestar."

Corrax Entry 7:17: So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again.
User avatar
Elheru Aran
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 13073
Joined: 2004-03-04 01:15am
Location: Georgia

Re: What would be your ultimate kitbashed (i.e. "ugly") starfighter design in the Star Wars Legends universe?

Post by Elheru Aran »

Eternal_Freedom wrote: Yeah. Hell, despite all the stuff about them in Legends cannon, in the OT films TIEs actually do rather well despite lacking shields - see how many X- and Y-Wings they killed over the DS1, and they didn't appear to have overwhelming numbers then either.

Of course, something like a TIE Defender would be the best bet for a TIE series, but I'll take a purpose-built and properly-designed fighter over a kitbash any day.
Fair enough.

If I *had* to take a kitbash? seems the Chir'daki got positive reviews. Make one from scratch? Probably use a X-wing as the base craft, or possibly a Skipray or U-wing for more elbow room. Make something like a Star Wars equivalent of a A-26 set up for ground attack.
It's a strange world. Let's keep it that way.
Crazedwraith
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 11863
Joined: 2003-04-10 03:45pm
Location: Cheshire, England

Re: What would be your ultimate kitbashed (i.e. "ugly") starfighter design in the Star Wars Legends universe?

Post by Crazedwraith »

Eternal_Freedom wrote:
Elheru Aran wrote:
Eternal_Freedom wrote: As for the actual question, to hell with uglies. I'd take a basic TIE fighter over one of those mashups, at least the TIE is actually designed as a complete ship.
Even bearing in mind that some of these have shield generators and the TIE doesn't?
Yeah. Hell, despite all the stuff about them in Legends cannon, in the OT films TIEs actually do rather well despite lacking shields - see how many X- and Y-Wings they killed over the DS1, and they didn't appear to have overwhelming numbers then either.
What do you reckon the ratio of TIEs to Rebels was at Endor or Scarif though? They did a heck of a lot better there. (Aside from Blue Squadron under the shields)

And even in Legends basically everyone would agree with you. Uglies are something only pirates in the direst need of ships actually use. 5 Wraiths in TIEs are worth scores of Uglies.

The only things called Uglies are actually worth anything are the Twi'lek's death seeds and the Tri-fighters in I,Jedi and they seem to be custom designs based existing components rather that flat out 'slap anything you like together' Uglies.
User avatar
Shroom Man 777
FUCKING DICK-STABBER!
Posts: 21222
Joined: 2003-05-11 08:39am
Location: Bleeding breasts and stabbing dicks since 2003
Contact:

Re: What would be your ultimate kitbashed (i.e. "ugly") starfighter design in the Star Wars Legends universe?

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

Simon_Jester wrote: By the way, Shroom, I'd forgotten, how did that thing with the short-range boat that wasn't supposed to be able to make it all the way from China go? I seem to remember you saying the voyage was a success.

But I remembered it a few times over the past few years, because the whole thing was so hilariously insane.
The trip was uneventful and the tugboat languished in PUBIC BAY by the yacht club for years, accruing interest and dock rental, until a buyer was finally found. I hope the family more-than-broke-even.

Man that was a preposterous headache.


Also... there's NOTHING preventing a Zeta cargo ship or any other cargo ship from magnetizing an upside down AT-AT and flying while said upside down AT-AT continues shooting at opponents!

Of course how the hell an AT-AT is upside-downed... I don't know. If I was an Imperial commander I'd order an AT-AT to walk STRAIGHT OFF an ISD hangar, "fall" into space, curl its legs up and then have it "dock" on the underside of a huge cargo ship. Like, with its legs magnetized on the ventral hull of said cargo ship. Then I'd command said preposterous concoction to provide fire support for ground troops.

Hmmm...there's nothing stopping conventionally transported non-upside down AT-ATs from firing while being transported either!

Image
Image "DO YOU WORSHIP HOMOSEXUALS?" - Curtis Saxton (source)
shroom is a lovely boy and i wont hear a bad word against him - LUSY-CHAN!
Shit! Man, I didn't think of that! It took Shroom to properly interpret the screams of dying people :D - PeZook
Shroom, I read out the stuff you write about us. You are an endless supply of morale down here. :p - an OWS street medic
Pink Sugar Heart Attack!
User avatar
Elheru Aran
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 13073
Joined: 2004-03-04 01:15am
Location: Georgia

Re: What would be your ultimate kitbashed (i.e. "ugly") starfighter design in the Star Wars Legends universe?

Post by Elheru Aran »

Your picture didn't work for me, Shroom.

That said, we know AT-TE's could magnetize, they're used in space in one episode of Clone Wars in fact-- Anakin uses them to ambush some Separatist ships by sticking them on a magnetic asteroid and then they float up onto the Sep craft when it passes by. So I don't see much reason why the AT-AT couldn't be capable of it, though its higher center of gravity would be a concern versus the conveniently low-slung AT-TE.
It's a strange world. Let's keep it that way.
User avatar
Eternal_Freedom
Castellan
Posts: 10361
Joined: 2010-03-09 02:16pm
Location: CIC, Battlestar Temeraire

Re: What would be your ultimate kitbashed (i.e. "ugly") starfighter design in the Star Wars Legends universe?

Post by Eternal_Freedom »

Crazedwraith wrote:
Eternal_Freedom wrote:
Elheru Aran wrote:
Even bearing in mind that some of these have shield generators and the TIE doesn't?
Yeah. Hell, despite all the stuff about them in Legends cannon, in the OT films TIEs actually do rather well despite lacking shields - see how many X- and Y-Wings they killed over the DS1, and they didn't appear to have overwhelming numbers then either.
What do you reckon the ratio of TIEs to Rebels was at Endor or Scarif though? They did a heck of a lot better there. (Aside from Blue Squadron under the shields)

And even in Legends basically everyone would agree with you. Uglies are something only pirates in the direst need of ships actually use. 5 Wraiths in TIEs are worth scores of Uglies.

The only things called Uglies are actually worth anything are the Twi'lek's death seeds and the Tri-fighters in I,Jedi and they seem to be custom designs based existing components rather that flat out 'slap anything you like together' Uglies.
Scarif can be rationalised as fairly poor pilots on an "easy" station (though for that matter I'd wager that very few TIE pilots had any combat experience prior to Rogue One or ANH) that got caught off-guard.

As for Endor, they were a mass of fighters (presumably better-trained pilots like those on the DS1) going up against a smaller (but not massively smaller) number of Rebel fighters that also had a whole bunch of capital ships there to provide covering/point-defence fire. And even still, we saw them downing Rebel fighters repeatedly.

I agree with you and Elheru on the Chir'daki/death seed fighters, those do seem to be the best available design.

If I had to design my own ugly...hmmm, I'm not sure I'd bother with a fighter basis at all. I'd probably use something like the YT-1300 and kit it out as a gunship, with a bunch of independently-tracking turrets mounting TIE-grade lasers, with a heavier weapon for firing forwards. Oddly enough I was conceiving something similar in work today.

I'm probably influenced by the multi-gun corvettes in Homeworld, a corvette chassis with 6 multi-tracking anti-fighter turrets that can absolutely shred fighters in a furball.
Baltar: "I don't want to miss a moment of the last Battlestar's destruction!"
Centurion: "Sir, I really think you should look at the other Battlestar."
Baltar: "What are you babbling about other...it's impossible!"
Centurion: "No. It is a Battlestar."

Corrax Entry 7:17: So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again.
User avatar
Shroom Man 777
FUCKING DICK-STABBER!
Posts: 21222
Joined: 2003-05-11 08:39am
Location: Bleeding breasts and stabbing dicks since 2003
Contact:

Re: What would be your ultimate kitbashed (i.e. "ugly") starfighter design in the Star Wars Legends universe?

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

Elheru Aran wrote:Your picture didn't work for me, Shroom.

That said, we know AT-TE's could magnetize, they're used in space in one episode of Clone Wars in fact-- Anakin uses them to ambush some Separatist ships by sticking them on a magnetic asteroid and then they float up onto the Sep craft when it passes by. So I don't see much reason why the AT-AT couldn't be capable of it, though its higher center of gravity would be a concern versus the conveniently low-slung AT-TE.
Here's the gigantic image...

Hmmm.. vernier-equipped asteroid and space hab zero-g combat AT-TEs, AT-ATs and AT-STs! Like... four-legged Star Wars GUNDAMS! :D
Image "DO YOU WORSHIP HOMOSEXUALS?" - Curtis Saxton (source)
shroom is a lovely boy and i wont hear a bad word against him - LUSY-CHAN!
Shit! Man, I didn't think of that! It took Shroom to properly interpret the screams of dying people :D - PeZook
Shroom, I read out the stuff you write about us. You are an endless supply of morale down here. :p - an OWS street medic
Pink Sugar Heart Attack!
User avatar
Batman
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 16329
Joined: 2002-07-09 04:51am
Location: Seriously thinking about moving to Marvel because so much of the DCEU stinks

Re: What would be your ultimate kitbashed (i.e. "ugly") starfighter design in the Star Wars Legends universe?

Post by Batman »

I weld a fighter (irrelevant what make or model) to the floor in a Super Star Destroyer to fulfill the 'kitbash' criterion and fill the hangar bays with real starfighters.
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
User avatar
Galvatron
Decepticon Leader
Posts: 6662
Joined: 2002-07-12 12:27am
Location: Kill! Smash! Destroy! Rend! Mangle! Distort!

Re: What would be your ultimate kitbashed (i.e. "ugly") starfighter design in the Star Wars Legends universe?

Post by Galvatron »

I always thought the Outrider could use some mandibles.
Adam Reynolds
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2354
Joined: 2004-03-27 04:51am

Re: What would be your ultimate kitbashed (i.e. "ugly") starfighter design in the Star Wars Legends universe?

Post by Adam Reynolds »

Uglies are one of many ideas from the old EU that I am not sad to see go. Having said that, even in universe they were a joke*. When Wraith Squadron is ambushed by a pirate gang consisting of two squadrons of of Uglies, they wipe them out with only a single lost X-wing(flown by Admiral Ackbar's niece) and a second that lost its R2 unit(and nearly its pilot due to insanity, but that is a different story). While Wraith Squadron were almost certainly better pilots, having proper New Republic training honed in what was almost a decade of war with the Empire, not to mention the EU version of Wedge Antilles, it still does not speak well for the abilities of the pirates' starfighters.

*As noted, they were a couple of effective versions, but they were strongly the exception.
Eternal_Freedom wrote: Scarif can be rationalised as fairly poor pilots on an "easy" station (though for that matter I'd wager that very few TIE pilots had any combat experience prior to Rogue One or ANH) that got caught off-guard.

As for Endor, they were a mass of fighters (presumably better-trained pilots like those on the DS1) going up against a smaller (but not massively smaller) number of Rebel fighters that also had a whole bunch of capital ships there to provide covering/point-defence fire. And even still, we saw them downing Rebel fighters repeatedly.
In both battles, the Empire is chronically unable to prevent Rebel fighters from carrying out whatever missions they wish, up to and including the disabling of a star destroyer over Scarif or Executor and the Death Star over Endor. While they are able to get numerous kills, they utterly fail at properly contesting the space over either world.

While Scarif might be justified in that it was a garrison not accustomed to combat operations, the fleet at Endor cannot.
User avatar
Kingmaker
Jedi Knight
Posts: 534
Joined: 2009-12-10 03:35am

Re: What would be your ultimate kitbashed (i.e. "ugly") starfighter design in the Star Wars Legends universe?

Post by Kingmaker »

Uglies never make sense, really. Anything as small, tightly integrated, and high performance as a fighter needs all its parts to work together; you'll never get performance out of a random combination of parts that comes anywhere the performance you'd get out of the same parts if they were built together into a craft whose parts were all designed to fit together.
To be fair, they're supposed to crap ships cobbled together from junk. A real military would prefer a real fighter, but dumpster diving for parts is okay when you're a pirate and the scariest thing you expect to fight is a marginally armed freighter. That being said, it's not entirely clear that you ought to be able to assemble a functioning ship from the range of parts displayed, given the wild divergence in star fighter design we see.
In the event that the content of the above post is factually or logically flawed, I was Trolling All Along.

"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful." - George Box
User avatar
madd0ct0r
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 6259
Joined: 2008-03-14 07:47am

Re: What would be your ultimate kitbashed (i.e. "ugly") starfighter design in the Star Wars Legends universe?

Post by madd0ct0r »

I go for the asterisk -an x wing mated with an x wing.
"Aid, trade, green technology and peace." - Hans Rosling.
"Welcome to SDN, where we can't see the forest because walking into trees repeatedly feels good, bro." - Mr Coffee
User avatar
Elheru Aran
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 13073
Joined: 2004-03-04 01:15am
Location: Georgia

Re: What would be your ultimate kitbashed (i.e. "ugly") starfighter design in the Star Wars Legends universe?

Post by Elheru Aran »

Kingmaker wrote:
Uglies never make sense, really. Anything as small, tightly integrated, and high performance as a fighter needs all its parts to work together; you'll never get performance out of a random combination of parts that comes anywhere the performance you'd get out of the same parts if they were built together into a craft whose parts were all designed to fit together.
To be fair, they're supposed to crap ships cobbled together from junk. A real military would prefer a real fighter, but dumpster diving for parts is okay when you're a pirate and the scariest thing you expect to fight is a marginally armed freighter. That being said, it's not entirely clear that you ought to be able to assemble a functioning ship from the range of parts displayed, given the wild divergence in star fighter design we see.
On the other hand: the fact that they CAN and DO...

Perhaps there's a ridiculously massive level of standardization in Republic/Imperial era manufacturing? The fact that apparently quite a few components will work together, apparently with a certain degree of ease, suggests this. At the very least, there's a ridiculous amount of TIE fighters, so presumably Sienar made the ball-cockpit pretty much infinitely adaptable to however many arrangements of wings, guns, etc. could be plugged into it.
It's a strange world. Let's keep it that way.
User avatar
hunter5
Padawan Learner
Posts: 377
Joined: 2010-01-25 09:34pm

Re: What would be your ultimate kitbashed (i.e. "ugly") starfighter design in the Star Wars Legends universe?

Post by hunter5 »

Most of the so called performance uglies like the tri-wing and chir'Dak were less cobbled together but designed from the ground up
Crazedwraith
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 11863
Joined: 2003-04-10 03:45pm
Location: Cheshire, England

Re: What would be your ultimate kitbashed (i.e. "ugly") starfighter design in the Star Wars Legends universe?

Post by Crazedwraith »

Eternal_Freedom wrote:
Scarif can be rationalised as fairly poor pilots on an "easy" station (though for that matter I'd wager that very few TIE pilots had any combat experience prior to Rogue One or ANH) that got caught off-guard.

As for Endor, they were a mass of fighters (presumably better-trained pilots like those on the DS1) going up against a smaller (but not massively smaller) number of Rebel fighters that also had a whole bunch of capital ships there to provide covering/point-defence fire. And even still, we saw them downing Rebel fighters repeatedly.
Or we could flip it around and instead of trying to rationalise two bad performance, rationalise the one good one instead. Maybe it's because it's two rebel squadrons recently rebuilt from the losses of Scarif with rookie pilots that haven't flown together before? And the presence of all the Death Star point defense and the Rebel's concentration on their mission rather than dogfighting.

Regardless, the point I was trying to make, badly. Is that although the EU/Legends undoubtedly exaggerated the superiority of rebel fighters over basic model TIEs, especially in the X-Wing books. It's understandable from the films. TIEs detonate spectacular when ever they are shot, while X-Wing tend to take long bursts from TIE guns and fly into wreckage and are able to survive glancing hits. It maybe the effect of name characters vs mooks but it's there in the film, the EU didn't invent it out of nothing.

Even in the X-Wing books, it's repeatedly mentioned having a TIE on your tale in space is very bad news. The Rogue's victory at 1 to 3 odds is thought to be impossibly good in Rogue Squadron. (If I hadn't been there I would have thought it was propaganda.) and generally they scrape by credibility wise by putting the best Rebel pilots in existence up against backwater and otherwise unremarkable TIE pilots.

There's a moment at the end of Wraith Squadron where one of their best pilots Kell who's being doing well against the standard TIE pilots is casually downed instantly by a 181st pilot.
User avatar
Elheru Aran
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 13073
Joined: 2004-03-04 01:15am
Location: Georgia

Re: What would be your ultimate kitbashed (i.e. "ugly") starfighter design in the Star Wars Legends universe?

Post by Elheru Aran »

hunter5 wrote:Most of the so called performance uglies like the tri-wing and chir'Dak were less cobbled together but designed from the ground up
They already said that.

The fact that both those designs used a standard Sienar TIE ball though, as do many other Ugly designs, suggests one of two-- possibly both-- things: that the TIE ball is kind of a universally adaptable component, and that it's extremely common. Both are likely the case. It seems to be the case, both from Ugly designs and the vast quantity of Imperial TIE designs, that TIE fighters are simply designed to be extremely modular and configurable. A 'universal chassis' so to speak.
It's a strange world. Let's keep it that way.
User avatar
Shroom Man 777
FUCKING DICK-STABBER!
Posts: 21222
Joined: 2003-05-11 08:39am
Location: Bleeding breasts and stabbing dicks since 2003
Contact:

Re: What would be your ultimate kitbashed (i.e. "ugly") starfighter design in the Star Wars Legends universe?

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

Maybe the properly-performing Uglies are actually... like, SW fabrication tech is so advanced that they can put the basic properly-performing components within a survivable and effective chassis that can come in all sorts of shapes. Maybe this is why there are so many different aesthetics when it comes to SW ships - since the components, avionics, power plants, repulsors, inertial dampeners, etc. have been standardized and refined for dozens of centuries, it's so easy to just cram all of these universal components into a frame that has an appearance determined almost entirely by the user's desires, preferences and expressions. It might also mean that the symbolism of warfare is super-important in galactic society.

And that shows us that Uglies are produced by unimaginative poops who instead of using something that looks actually cool end up resorting to fuck ugly kitbashes because they think it looks awsum or clever or something. Like, they literally ARE in-universe fanboys who love their TIEs and X-Wings and want to have ultimate hybrid fusion awsum luls.

Kind of like the meta- aspects of the First Order pathological fanboys and the hormonal Kylo knights.
Image "DO YOU WORSHIP HOMOSEXUALS?" - Curtis Saxton (source)
shroom is a lovely boy and i wont hear a bad word against him - LUSY-CHAN!
Shit! Man, I didn't think of that! It took Shroom to properly interpret the screams of dying people :D - PeZook
Shroom, I read out the stuff you write about us. You are an endless supply of morale down here. :p - an OWS street medic
Pink Sugar Heart Attack!
User avatar
Galvatron
Decepticon Leader
Posts: 6662
Joined: 2002-07-12 12:27am
Location: Kill! Smash! Destroy! Rend! Mangle! Distort!

Re: What would be your ultimate kitbashed (i.e. "ugly") starfighter design in the Star Wars Legends universe?

Post by Galvatron »

Shroom Man 777 wrote:And that shows us that Uglies are produced by unimaginative poops who instead of using something that looks actually cool end up resorting to fuck ugly kitbashes because they think it looks awsum or clever or something. Like, they literally ARE in-universe fanboys who love their TIEs and X-Wings and want to have ultimate hybrid fusion awsum luls.
That makes more sense than any other explanation so far.
Adam Reynolds
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2354
Joined: 2004-03-27 04:51am

Re: What would be your ultimate kitbashed (i.e. "ugly") starfighter design in the Star Wars Legends universe?

Post by Adam Reynolds »

Crazedwraith wrote: Or we could flip it around and instead of trying to rationalise two bad performance, rationalise the one good one instead. Maybe it's because it's two rebel squadrons recently rebuilt from the losses of Scarif with rookie pilots that haven't flown together before? And the presence of all the Death Star point defense and the Rebel's concentration on their mission rather than dogfighting.

Regardless, the point I was trying to make, badly. Is that although the EU/Legends undoubtedly exaggerated the superiority of rebel fighters over basic model TIEs, especially in the X-Wing books. It's understandable from the films. TIEs detonate spectacular when ever they are shot, while X-Wing tend to take long bursts from TIE guns and fly into wreckage and are able to survive glancing hits. It maybe the effect of name characters vs mooks but it's there in the film, the EU didn't invent it out of nothing.
That is an interesting way to look at it. In any case, I would argue that it is almost entirely pilot skill rather than equipment that makes up for the difference in apparent quality.
Even in the X-Wing books, it's repeatedly mentioned having a TIE on your tale in space is very bad news. The Rogue's victory at 1 to 3 odds is thought to be impossibly good in Rogue Squadron. (If I hadn't been there I would have thought it was propaganda.) and generally they scrape by credibility wise by putting the best Rebel pilots in existence up against backwater and otherwise unremarkable TIE pilots.

There's a moment at the end of Wraith Squadron where one of their best pilots Kell who's being doing well against the standard TIE pilots is casually downed instantly by a 181st pilot.
On the flip side, when Wraith Squadron themselves are in a mix of TIE fighters and interceptors, they do fine in dogfights. The lack of shields is a downside, but with reasonably proficent pilots it is made up for by the superior agility. The best analogy is the F4F Wildcat vs the Zero. The Zero massively had the edge in agility, but were more likely to take casualties and thus were more likely to lose skilled pilots over time.

Both in the X-wing books and Rebels, A-wings are also generally more likely to take casualties in a manner similar to TIE fighters as well, as their weak shields aren't much better than the often assumed to be nonexistent shields of TIE fighters. But their agility similarly gives them an edge over X-wings in many cases. Going back to the WW2 comparison, it was the P-51 vs P-47.
Post Reply