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Well, aside from the classic lightsaber, we've got the "lightstaff", "lightchucks", "lightwhip", "light tonfa" and even a lightsaber pistol built by young Ezra Bridger.

However, there is one lightsaber type weapon I have yet to see—one based upon this bad boy.



That's right, I want to see a bayonet lightsaber. The rifle and stock part could be equipped with an integrity field to stop lightsaber strikes, so you could attack or defend from either end, bashing with the butt or slashing with the blade. Also, since it is a rifle, you could take down targets from a distance if you have to giving you a further advantage over traditional lightsabers. At least that's my opinion on the matter.

Not a lot of utility in that though. There was a reason people started using their E tool for melee combat instead of the bayonet.

Yeah, you're probably right.

On the other hand, how practical are "lightchucks"?

Bayonets are a shitty shitty weapon if your enemy is actually willing to fight you on foot. They were a compromise between the gun and the pike. Bayonet charges were terrifying and most enemy infantry subjected to them broke before contact.

In situations where combat was mandatory (like a trench), the shovel was a better weapon. Let that sink in.

Against a proper lightsaber, all you have with a lightbayonet is a clunky unbalanced weapon with inferior reach. The rifle offers no advantage either, because anyone using a lightsaber can accomplish the same goals of a rifle using the force, or by reflecting the bolts back.

You dont get anything out of it but modern Milwank.

As for lightchucks, they are not. But the EU is gone now.

A shitty yet terrifying weapon. Got it.

Just one little question, though. How likely do you suppose it would be for a Force sensitive warrior to carry a shovel around with him? I mean, I can see one carrying a rifle on his back with a strap if he had to, but why carry a shovel? Especially when he can just use the Force to excavate trenches or foxholes when he needs to. That or use some kind of "mole droid".

Also, there is the martial art of Jukendo, or Japanese bayonet fighting, so a skilled Force sensitive could be a threat with one. Remember the United States Marine Corps Martial Arts motto: "One mind, any weapon". Even a shitty one if you have no other option. Also, the lightbayonet could be easily well balanced if made right, and its reach would actually be the entire weapon, since the integrity field would protect it from lightsaber strikes, so you could block or strike from either end as I said before.

BTW, I'm not trying to come across as a smartass, since I have to admit I have no military experience. If you do I'll gladly take any correction from you on this matter.

A shitty yet terrifying weapon. Got it.

It is terrifying for factors unrelated to the weapon, but more the nature of the training of soldiers (or lack thereof) and their willingness to kill or risk death.

There is a psychological barrier to killing. It is easier to breach with mechanical and physical distance, pure rage, cultural or class hatred, obscured faces, and distributed responsibility. You can get a few hundred guys together in a line to shoot at another line of dudes, but only a few percent are actually shooting to kill. Most ended up either dry-firing their weapons, loading their weapons eight times and not firing, or firing over their enemies heads. When the bayonets come out, the soldiers break.

Most of the actual casualties post gunpowder have been from artillery and other crew-served weapons.

In the ancient and medieval world, things were a bit different because there were massive amounts of ethnic, class, and religious hatred, and faces were often obscured (so you dont take as much pity on the dude begging for his life, or obviously terrified).

Hell, in WWII, only 2% of infantry in combat (as in, front line, not logistics dudes) actually shot to kill when in a position to do so.

Those numbers are WAY up now because we figured out how to train soldiers to defeat that psychological barrier. But that is the context when bayonets were actually in use.

What they were effective at as actual weapons was stopping cavalry charges because horses wont suicide into a block of pointy sticks.

Also, there is the martial art of Jukendo, or Japanese bayonet fighting, so a skilled Force sensitive could be a threat with one. Remember the United States Marine Corps Martial Arts motto: "One mind, any weapon". Even a shitty one if you have no other option. Also, the lightbayonet could be easily well balanced if made right, and its reach would actually be the entire weapon, since the integrity field would protect it from lightsaber strikes, so you could block or strike from either end as I said before.

You are still holding something shorter than a quarter staff in two hands. That means the reach is inferior to an actual sword. It is also heavy. After the hilt, lightsabers are either massless or effectively massless. A lightbayonet would not be, and as a result will be MUCH slower to use.

Lastly, why the fuck would I carry a shitty heavy weapon when I have the option of a good weapon that weighs at most a few hundred grams?

BTW, I'm not trying to come across as a smartass, since I have to admit I have no military experience. If you do I'll gladly take any correction from you on this matter.

Knife has. I have used actual melee weapons.

In that case I bow to your superior experience.

Chris Parr wrote:A shitty yet terrifying weapon. Got it.

Just one little question, though. How likely do you suppose it would be for a Force sensitive warrior to carry a shovel around with him? I mean, I can see one carrying a rifle on his back with a strap if he had to, but why carry a shovel? Especially when he can just use the Force to excavate trenches or foxholes when he needs to. That or use some kind of "mole droid".

Also, there is the martial art of Jukendo, or Japanese bayonet fighting, so a skilled Force sensitive could be a threat with one. Remember the United States Marine Corps Martial Arts motto: "One mind, any weapon". Even a shitty one if you have no other option. Also, the lightbayonet could be easily well balanced if made right, and its reach would actually be the entire weapon, since the integrity field would protect it from lightsaber strikes, so you could block or strike from either end as I said before.

BTW, I'm not trying to come across as a smartass, since I have to admit I have no military experience. If you do I'll gladly take any correction from you on this matter.

Well you're coming of as a smartass. Alyrium Denryle explain why it's nothing but Milwank. As for that Japanese term I would assume it's just the JSDF/pre-1945 imperial military term for Bayonet Drill or what ever is the US term for it and nothing special really, it shouldn't be odd that japanese military uses japanese terms for their training regimens

the thing is the Bayonet will always be unbalanced as the rilfe (which would account most of the mass anyway) will be balanced as first and foremost as rifle as that is its primary purpose.

As for carrying a shovel I can't belive I'll have to explain this shovel is simple (both to use and repair), practical and multiple uses. For using the Force it's like asking why modern soldiers don't just use their hands and a "mole droid" would add the complexity of repairing the thing and supplying the spare parts.

Also in the Legendaries (I dunno if it is still in current canon) the impracticality of the Lightsabre was part of the reason it was used, different justifications for Jedi and Sith but basic princible remained, carrying a blaster rifle would defeat that purpose. You got to remember that neither Jedi nor Sith are soldiers as their primary purpose. Jedi were high end police/diplomatic force, while the Sith seemed to be the "nobility" of the Sith empire with Lightsabre as much a sign of status for both as it was a weapon.

Well, I've already bowed to his superior wisdom and experience on this subject. Don't know what else I can do here.

Nothing really but you posted your consession while I was writing my post, consider it a clarification rather then an additional argument.

All right.

A shovel is really just a modified Axe when used in melee.

I have had to do bayonet drills, they suck donkey balls and the bayonet itself is a shit knife, so it stayed in the buttpack. That said, I could easily see some dickhead NCO or Officer ordering fix (lightsaber)bayonets if they actually had them. However, the impression I have always had is that Lightsabers are actually extremely difficult to produce compared to a vibroblade, and as such not economical.

Yeah, I can see your point because while I'm busy trying to attach my blade to my rifle you've already moved in with your Ka-Bar or whatever and started stabbing. At least that's what I think would happen, but what do I know?

A lightsaber that combined the functions of... Andromeda Force Lance's would be a nasty weapon in the hands of a force user or a mundane trooper. Star Wars should have the capability to produce such a weapon, though not with the insane gimmicks Andromeda had. A lightsaber with a blaster function should be feasible.

A blaster is a questionable addition to a lightsaber. A lightsaber is a defensive weapon, with limited capability to harm someone at a distance unless they start shooting at the wielder. Add on a blaster and the combination is now an offensive weapon. Which affects how others will perceive the person carrying it.

Then there is the problem of engaging in a lightsaber duel. Adding on a blaster will probably mess with the lightsabers balance, while being a bad idea in a lightsaber duel because the opponent will be able to deflect the blaster bolts back . The stun device on Ezra's lightsaber works because stun blasts can't be deflected, though I question how useful it would be among more skilled combatants.

How often have situations come up where a blaster on a lightsaber carried by a force user would have been useful ?

Kanan used Ezra's saber gun quite effectively against the Inquisitor in the season one finale of Rebels.

Didn't one of the Gundam shows do a beam bayonet and have it be completely useless and only used if the pilot didn't have time draw the beam saber?

I've only seen a handful of Gundam series so I can't say for sure but it seems logical, bayonets were always a compromise between having your ranged forces have a melee back up, while not forcing them to carry too much useless crap. Thus Bayonets aren't really that good as melee weapons, at best they're a combat knife that can be attached to your rifle, at worst they're an overly long spike that only works as poorly balanced spear when attached to the rifle.

It depends on what the other guy has. A guy with a pocket knife would probably get shanked by a guy with a bayonet.

Obviously but typically if someone would attack anyone in melee during combat they wouldn't use a pocket knife.

So . . . rifle with attached bayonet used as a poor spear vs. rifle flipped around to serve as a poor two-handed club?

In Bayonet drills both sides of the weapon are used, point and butt, though admittedly not like you are imagining.

Here you go, an old training film