RIP Carrie Fisher

[Kojiro]

I thought Leia had a resistance to run.

She is desperate to find her brother Luke and gain his help in restoring peace and justice to the galaxy.

Starkiller Base has just been destroyed and the First Order dealt a massive blow. Surely they can spare her for a few days to recruit Jedi Master Luke Skywalker, her brother and hero of the Republic? I mean, he's been in hiding for some time, who else are you going to send to convince him to come back? Some strange girl you literally just met who isn't even part of the Resistance? That's your envoy to your brother you desperately seek?

This is in part because it's (at least partly) Rey's film. She goes from desert scavenger to junior space wizard, and as a result can be at the centre of a billion dollar franchise. Leia is the Queen who sends Rey on her quest. Think of it in terms of the hero's journey monomyth. Leia being there would cheapen Rey's journey.

Rey has plenty of moments to shine in this film. Plenty. But please explain to me how having Leia appear next to Rey would so cheapen her story.

And then tell me that the 'damage' done to Rey wouldn't be worth seeing Luke and Leia reunited one last time. An opportunity now lost forever.

[Shroom Man 777]

Leia finished shooting her scenes for the next film. For all we know, Rey does take Luke out of hiding and bring him back to the Rebel base where Leia is waiting...

Man. I am so sads.

[Simon_Jester]

Since Episode VIII has already been shot, we can at least hope that Leia and Luke meet in that movie. There are a lot of ways for that to be justified by the story.

I'm not going to criticize Disney for NOT putting Leia in what was essentially an epilogue scene at the tail of Episode VII. For the very reason fans want to see Luke and Leia reunited one more time, fans also don't want that scene to be a cheap throwaway. Since Carrie Fisher having a heart attack at sixty wasn't something they could easily foresee, I don't blame them for taking the time to do the reunion scene properly in (hopefully) Episode VIII.

I will note that with Han out of the picture, there's not a lot they could do with the original cast's internal dynamics except Luke and Leia. Which in my opinion increases the chance that they would have gone for it. The original cast dynamics aren't what drives the new trilogy, but they ARE one of its selling points. And a good enough one that it's worth going to some lengths to write that into the script from their point of view.

[Kojiro]

Leia finished shooting her scenes for the next film. For all we know, Rey does take Luke out of hiding and bring him back to the Rebel base where Leia is waiting...

Huh, I had heard differently. If we get to see it, with her gone, it will be all the more meaningful. I suppose now we just have to hope.

[Shroom Man 777]

I meant Episode VIII.

[GuppyShark]

Huh, I had heard differently. If we get to see it, with her gone, it will be all the more meaningful. I suppose now we just have to hope.

Rebellions are built on hope.

[Galvatron]

Leia finished shooting her scenes for the next film. For all we know, Rey does take Luke out of hiding and bring him back to the Rebel base where Leia is waiting...

This is why I think they'll rewrite and reshoot some of it to give us more closure with Leia versus some abrupt off-screen death that takes place after 8 and before 9.

Man, can you imagine if they were setting Leia up to be Snoke or some shit?

[Abacus]

I'd be fine with a re-shoot of her ship getting destroyed in a space battle. Maybe make it something that causes a /larger/ rift between Snoke/Husk and Kylo Ren/Ben. It could be that it is the death of his mother that causes Kylo to return to the light, helped along by Luke and Rey.

Because we know that he, Kylo, has to be redeemed in the third act; since his character arc mirrors Vader's and is what the character himself wants -- to be Vader.

[The Romulan Republic]

I'd be fine with a re-shoot of her ship getting destroyed in a space battle. Maybe make it something that causes a /larger/ rift between Snoke/Husk and Kylo Ren/Ben. It could be that it is the death of his mother that causes Kylo to return to the light, helped along by Luke and Rey.

Because we know that he, Kylo, has to be redeemed in the third act; since his character arc mirrors Vader's and is what the character himself wants -- to be Vader.

On the other hand, not being redeemed would work too, as far as Ren's character arch.

He's basically a mirror of Vader, in a way. While Vader was an evil man being drawn back toward the light by the love of his son, Ren is trying to shed the last remnants of good in himself by murdering his father. And it would fit with Ren's whole identity as someone trying to live up to Vader and failing if he ultimately never reaches the realization that Vader did.

Sad, yes. Pathetic, yes. But in keeping with his character thus far, I think.

Really, they could go either way and it would work.

[Gandalf]

I thought Leia had a resistance to run.

She is desperate to find her brother Luke and gain his help in restoring peace and justice to the galaxy.

Starkiller Base has just been destroyed and the First Order dealt a massive blow. Surely they can spare her for a few days to recruit Jedi Master Luke Skywalker, her brother and hero of the Republic? I mean, he's been in hiding for some time, who else are you going to send to convince him to come back? Some strange girl you literally just met who isn't even part of the Resistance? That's your envoy to your brother you desperately seek?

Yeah. It's like in ANH when some guy she just met rescued her and then blew up the Death Star. I would think that by now Leia has faith in a higher power, and the plan that it has for all of us. The Force wills it!

Rey has plenty of moments to shine in this film. Plenty. But please explain to me how having Leia appear next to Rey would so cheapen her story.

Because Rey finding Luke is culmination of everything she does in the film. It would be a bit like not having Obi-Wan die in ANH so he can be a part of the trench run.

And then tell me that the 'damage' done to Rey wouldn't be worth seeing Luke and Leia reunited one last time. An opportunity now lost forever.

[The Romulan Republic]

Weather Luke and Leia are ever reunited on-screen is a question that must wait for Episode VIII to open in theatres (I'm presuming that they won't digitally add Leia to IX, or recast her for it).

[Kojiro]

Yeah. It's like in ANH when some guy she just met rescued her and then blew up the Death Star. I would think that by now Leia has faith in a higher power, and the plan that it has for all of us. The Force wills it!

Bullshit. Luke tags along because they have more fighters than pilots and is in no way the one person Leia is relying on for that mission. That's why there's whole squadrons sent, which is exactly the point. This mission is extremely important. By all means send Rey along, just as Luke went along with Red and Gold squadrons. But your analogy would only work if Luke was the only X wing sent at the Death Star. That of course, would be retarded though.

Because Rey finding Luke is culmination of everything she does in the film. It would be a bit like not having Obi-Wan die in ANH so he can be a part of the trench run.

Except it's not her mission. It's Poe's mission, given to him by Leia in desperation. Leia needs her brother back, for the Resistance. The least they could do is send a Resistance member. Given that Luke has been in self imposed exile for how ever many years, that person should probably be able to articulate the Resistance's position, needs and ideally have some sway with Luke. Gee, can you think of anyone who might fit that bill?

Leia being there would cheapen Rey's journey.

Explain to me how Leia's presence would cheapen Rey's journey. What damage would it cause to her character arc?

[The Romulan Republic]

Yeah. It's like in ANH when some guy she just met rescued her and then blew up the Death Star. I would think that by now Leia has faith in a higher power, and the plan that it has for all of us. The Force wills it!

Bullshit. Luke tags along because they have more fighters than pilots and is in no way the one person Leia is relying on for that mission. That's why there's whole squadrons sent, which is exactly the point. This mission is extremely important. By all means send Rey along, just as Luke went along with Red and Gold squadrons. But your analogy would only work if Luke was the only X wing sent at the Death Star. That of course, would be retarded though.

Because Rey finding Luke is culmination of everything she does in the film. It would be a bit like not having Obi-Wan die in ANH so he can be a part of the trench run.

Except it's not her mission. It's Poe's mission, given to him by Leia in desperation. Leia needs her brother back, for the Resistance. The least they could do is send a Resistance member. Given that Luke has been in self imposed exile for how ever many years, that person should probably be able to articulate the Resistance's position, needs and ideally have some sway with Luke. Gee, can you think of anyone who might fit that bill?

Leia being there would cheapen Rey's journey.

Explain to me how Leia's presence would cheapen Rey's journey. What damage would it cause to her character arc?

Or they might have decided to save Luke and Leia's reunion for Episode VIII rather than try to cram it in at the end of VII.

[Kojiro]

Or they might have decided to save Luke and Leia's reunion for Episode VIII rather than try to cram it in at the end of VII.

Sure. For all we know Leia is hot on Rey's tail and will arrive shortly. What I fear will happen is we'll get 5 minutes of 'help me Luke Skywalker, you're my only hope!' and then Luke will begin training Rey and ignoring Leia's pleas. Certainly if they both stay on that planet training they're not back helping the Resistance.

[amigocabal]

[Adam Reynolds]

Explain to me how Leia's presence would cheapen Rey's journey. What damage would it cause to her character arc?

Rey's entire arc was about her wanting to be reunited with her family. Luke is presumably what is left of it in one way or another. If not a direct relative, he fulfills the same role that Obi-Wan did to Luke, serving as an indirect connection to her family. Leia tagging along would cheapen this.

Leia also obviously seemed to know who Rey was, hence why she knew that Rey needed to be the one to meet with Luke. Luke and Leia were also likely somewhat estranged due to the fallout over Ben turning to the Dark Side, and Leia returning would reopen an old would, while Rey appearing would give Luke hope about the future.

Sure. For all we know Leia is hot on Rey's tail and will arrive shortly. What I fear will happen is we'll get 5 minutes of 'help me Luke Skywalker, you're my only hope!' and then Luke will begin training Rey and ignoring Leia's pleas. Certainly if they both stay on that planet training they're not back helping the Resistance.

Depending on what Luke's eventual goal is, training Rey might be more important in the end. I suspect that the goal of the Jedi this time around is to fully defeat the Dark Side once and for all, in which Rey developing her powers has more influence than whatever military support Luke could offer the Resistance directly.

[Kojiro]

Rey's entire arc was about her wanting to be reunited with her family.

Was it now? Because other people seem to think her arc is about abandoning that futile, static dead end and becoming a space wizard. I think you're confusing her beginning motivation with her arc.

Luke is presumably what is left of it in one way or another.

Possible, sure, but yesterday Rey believed Luke Skywalker was a myth. She clearly doesn't believe he's her father and I doubt Luke abandoned his daughter.

If not a direct relative, he fulfills the same role that Obi-Wan did to Luke, serving as an indirect connection to her family. Leia tagging along would cheapen this.

Hold on just a moment. So her arc is about wanting to be with her family but Luke- an utter stranger to her- is close enough because he can train her? And again, HOW does Leia's presence (and why does she not count as pseudo family? Wrong Skywalker? Two Skywalkers bad?) cheapen it? Simply saying it cheapens it is not an argument.

Leia also obviously seemed to know who Rey was, hence why she knew that Rey needed to be the one to meet with Luke.

'Obviously seemed'. Heh. Clearly possibly right? Definitely maybe?

Luke and Leia were also likely somewhat estranged due to the fallout over Ben turning to the Dark Side, and Leia returning would reopen an old would, while Rey appearing would give Luke hope about the future.

How the fuck does Rey give Luke hope? Oh look, another would be padawan, like the ones I failed and let all die. The reason I exiled myself in the first place. YAY! And yeah, old wounds. It would almost be heroic to bring that pain upon oneself for the good of the galaxy. How could we possibly expect such a thing from Leia?

Depending on what Luke's eventual goal is, training Rey might be more important in the end.

Oh I'm absolutely sure it will be. But Luke's goal has jack shit to do with who the Resistance should send into unknown space to recruit him.

I suspect that the goal of the Jedi this time around is to fully defeat the Dark Side once and for all, in which Rey developing her powers has more influence than whatever military support Luke could offer the Resistance directly.

Do you mean the Dark Side of the force? Or just this group of Dark Side users? And come on... if you want to unite the galaxy against a threat like the First Order I dare say that having Hero of the Republic Jedi Master Luke Skywalker show up might just, possibly, have some impact on what the surviving forces choose to do. 30 years is nowhere near long enough for someone like Luke to vanish from memory.

[The Romulan Republic]

Or they might have decided to save Luke and Leia's reunion for Episode VIII rather than try to cram it in at the end of VII.

Sure. For all we know Leia is hot on Rey's tail and will arrive shortly. What I fear will happen is we'll get 5 minutes of 'help me Luke Skywalker, you're my only hope!' and then Luke will begin training Rey and ignoring Leia's pleas. Certainly if they both stay on that planet training they're not back helping the Resistance.

Well, we'll see. Episode VIII is already done being filmed, and its a safe guess that Luke and Leia both have fairly large roles. Likewise, I doubt that they'll keep Luke on that one planet for the whole film, having already given him such a minimal role in VII- audiences will want to see Luke back in action again.

[The Romulan Republic]

I thought Leia had a resistance to run.

She is desperate to find her brother Luke and gain his help in restoring peace and justice to the galaxy.

Starkiller Base has just been destroyed and the First Order dealt a massive blow. Surely they can spare her for a few days to recruit Jedi Master Luke Skywalker, her brother and hero of the Republic? I mean, he's been in hiding for some time, who else are you going to send to convince him to come back? Some strange girl you literally just met who isn't even part of the Resistance? That's your envoy to your brother you desperately seek?

Leia is the general in command of the entire Resistance. People in positions like that can't just go running off at the drop of a hat, both because they have other duties to fill and because of security concerns. This would be all the more true when the war has just drastically escalated and the Resistance and Republic have just taken heavy losses.

Their's also the issue of Leia's own emotional state after losing her lover because he was murdered by their son, and any remaining resentment she might have felt toward Luke over the situation- she may have felt she wasn't the best person to handle it then.

As for Rey- Rey is not just "Some strange girl".

First off, she's a Force user. Even leaving aside the possibility that she is Luke's daughter and that Leia is aware of that fact, Leia would know that she needs to be trained by Luke, and perhaps conclude that her involvement is the "will of the Force". Which, if her random vision at Maz's castle is any indication, it is.

Secondly, its pretty clear by the end of the film that Rey has thrown her lot in with the Resistance. She would also have Poe's droid, Chewie, and Han, before his death, to vouch for her and her role in completing their missions.

Thirdly, Chewie was sent as well, and he's an excellent choice, being an experienced commando and probably Luke's closest living friend in the Resistance after Leia herself. Likewise, the Falcon is a good choice of ship for the mission, aside from being somewhat well-known, because its small and fast enough to do the job quickly and discretely without drawing a lot of First Order attention. And given that Han had offered Rey a place on the Falcon, Chewie might well have insisted that she come along, as a way of honouring Han's last wishes. That's something I can totally see Chewie doing, and I can see Leia going along with it if Chewie put it to her in those terms.

[Adam Reynolds]

Was it now? Because other people seem to think her arc is about abandoning that futile, static dead end and becoming a space wizard. I think you're confusing her beginning motivation with her arc.

Her arc is about abandoning the hope that someone will come for her on Jakku, not that she should give up on being reunited with a connection to her family, which is presumably Luke.

Possible, sure, but yesterday Rey believed Luke Skywalker was a myth. She clearly doesn't believe he's her father and I doubt Luke abandoned his daughter.

Maz Katana directly stated to Rey that whoever was going to come for her on Jakku could no longer do so, but that Luke still could. That indicates that he is the last remaining connection to her family in one way or another. If he is her father, presumably he didn't know she was alive, in the same way that Vader didn't know he was alive.

Oh I'm absolutely sure it will be. But Luke's goal has jack shit to do with who the Resistance should send into unknown space to recruit him.

Sure it does. If he has a longer term goal that has less to do with the Resistance or First Order and more to do with the Dark Side itself, then he has little reason to care for the more immediate threat. Having spend all of the effort that he did against the Empire, only to have his Jedi Order fall apart and the First Order come into power, likely soured him on the idea of dealing with the immediate threat at the expense of the longer term threat.

How the fuck does Rey give Luke hope? Oh look, another would be padawan, like the ones I failed and let all die. The reason I exiled myself in the first place. YAY! And yeah, old wounds. It would almost be heroic to bring that pain upon oneself for the good of the galaxy. How could we possibly expect such a thing from Leia?

Another would be padawan who is directly connected to Luke is exactly what he needs. Having beleived that all of his students died is part of what drove him to exile, knowing that one is alive likely gives him hope that he can turn things around.

This version of Luke is based on the Fisher King. Having Leia be the one to meet him doesn't fit that at all.

Do you mean the Dark Side of the force? Or just this group of Dark Side users? And come on... if you want to unite the galaxy against a threat like the First Order I dare say that having Hero of the Republic Jedi Master Luke Skywalker show up might just, possibly, have some impact on what the surviving forces choose to do. 30 years is nowhere near long enough for someone like Luke to vanish from memory.

20 years was long enough for the original Jedi to vanish from memory. Luke is only one person, and Rey clearly didn't know who he was, which indicates that he would not totally serve as an inspiration.

As for Luke's goals, I suspect it has something to do with the origins of the Jedi and Sith. The novel Aftermath referenced the Knights of Ren looking for the wellspring of the Dark Side, which seems to be its origin in some sense. We also have Han stating that Luke was trying to find the first Jedi Temple. Clone Wars also indicates that there is a location, Mortis, that houses the personification of Light and Dark. I suspect that Luke's goal is finding a way to seriously hurt the Dark Side.

[The Romulan Republic]

I hope that wellspring crap is not used in the films. Having a single physical origin point for something as fundamental and ultimately metaphysical as the Dark Side of the Force would be beyond idiocy.

As is the idea that the Dark Side is something that can be hurt the way you would hurt an organic being. I would expect the Light and Dark sides' strengths to be affected by trends on a very large scale.

[Shroom Man 777]

The wellspring is OBVIOUSLY in Korriban, there's a Stargate that leads to the Underverse. I think Episode 9 will involve them blowing the gate up with a photon torpedo. After all, what does a Sith need with a starship (all they need are holocrons, tattoos and darkblades for their wrists). Historically, the Mandalorians also encountered this wellspring when their Lord Marshall took them there to the Underverse. They were looking for things to kill, because after all the Mandalorian way is "you keep what you kill." But over there in the Underverse it is PITCH BLACK because of course it IS a wellspring of the dark side, the realm where the Sith come from. That is their home dimension. This explains why Sith outside the Underverse tend to either catch fire or have their faces melt... because the phase varience of their midichlorians is not in sync with the reversed polarity of reality beyond The Underverse.

Aside from "you keep what you kill," the greatest Lord Marshall of the Mandalorians, the Mandalore named Domriddick Turretto, an extremely furious individual who the chronicles say is fast in fights and is an xtremely xpedient xterminator, also says this as his truest credo: "NEVER TURN YOUR BACK ON FAMILY."

Kylo Ren turned his back on his family. And he's skittish. Real skittish.

Should've taken the money Fett.

The Light Side hurts my eyes.

[FireNexus]

Did Rey display any overt force powers before Emo Ren tried to mindfuck her? I said it around the time the movie came out, but my thinking is that what Rey did to Ren is exactly the reason Vader didn't try to use the force to extract info from Leia, opting for the torture droid. He knew she was strong in the force and that there was no way he could make that connection one way.

[The Romulan Republic]

Overt? No. Not unless you count that weird vision at Maz's castle (which I took to be more outside influence on her, either a location that was strong in the Force or just the will of the Force).

She displayed basically the same latent Force abilities young Anakin did in Phantom Menace, and that young Luke did in A New Hope (albeit perhaps to a lesser extent)- good with machines, skilled pilot, good marksmanship.

The fact that her Force abilities manifested in those specific ways I take as another possible hint of Skywalker heritage.

[Shroom Man 777]

In retrospect... did the OT rely that much on visions for Luke? Those visions in TFA felt pretty... narratively weak.