Finally, another class of First Order warship

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Finally, another class of First Order warship

Post by Galvatron » 2016-05-10 02:56pm

This is from issue #2 of the Poe Dameron comic. No idea how it compares to the Finalizer, but I'm sure you guys will speculate:

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Re: Finally, another class of First Order warship

Post by U.P. Cinnabar » 2016-05-10 03:01pm

Cool looking ship, the bridge to one side makes it stand out.

He only mentioned its impressive troop and fighter capacity. Without seeing its organic weaponry in action, there's no way to assess its potential against a Finalizer.
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Re: Finally, another class of First Order warship

Post by Batman » 2016-05-10 03:02pm

The offset bridge structure looks odd.
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Re: Finally, another class of First Order warship

Post by Patroklos » 2016-05-10 03:03pm

I am actually happy to see a non KDY standard configuration and tower. Maybe we can get a new shipyard introduced. However, their conscious effort to replicate an real world carrier conning tower off to the side and everything rings stupid. Is there something particularly massive on the other side to balance? Just think what that does to the reactor and engine locations.

Though I guess you MIGHT be able to justify it to account for making room for a larger continuous through hanger given its description of carrying particularly noteworthy fighter and troop compliments (even though its called a heavy cruiser, so not a frigate). I can think of better ways to accomplish that besides that tower placement, but if some thought went into that other than "a space Nimitz might be col" I give them credit.
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Re: Finally, another class of First Order warship

Post by Galvatron » 2016-05-10 03:03pm

And I guess I should have known that there would be a Wookieepedia entry for it already.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Maxima-A ... vy_cruiser

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Re: Finally, another class of First Order warship

Post by Thanas » 2016-05-10 03:12pm

It looks pretty ugly and unimaginative IMO.
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Re: Finally, another class of First Order warship

Post by Simon_Jester » 2016-05-10 03:18pm

Well yes, but then no Imperial ship really looks anything other than big, nasty, and brutalist. And the art style isn't doing them any favors either. It makes the ship look if anything more squared-off and blocky than it would in a model for a movie.
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Re: Finally, another class of First Order warship

Post by Elheru Aran » 2016-05-10 03:23pm

Yeah, the design is pretty obviously derivative of a IRL carrier. It's also a bit too cruise-ship-y in its look. The Finalizer and other Imperial ships have a more... how do I put it... coarse texture going on, with all the surface greeblies and what not. Granted that's hard to pull off with comic book art, so they get somewhat of a pass on the greeblies.

However, one distinct thing stands out to me. No equatorial trench. There's just a blank face along the perimeter. That, I think, is what's *really* making the difference.
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Re: Finally, another class of First Order warship

Post by Simon_Jester » 2016-05-10 03:37pm

Honestly, the idea that this is a dedicated fighter/troopship actually makes a lot of sense.

The Imperial doctrine of multirole ships may well leave a lot to be desired from the point of view of something like the First Order. The First Order probably doesn't do as many 'police actions' as the Empire, so there isn't much point wasting space on their normal warships for stuff like AT-ATs and garrison bases. But at the same time, any political organization that controls numerous planets (even on the Rim) needs spacecraft capable of moving large forces of fighters and/or troops over interstellar distances.

So a "space carrier" really does fit- a subclass of warship that can physically hold the massive shuttle and fighter complements their usual line-of-battle ships can't handle.
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Re: Finally, another class of First Order warship

Post by Elheru Aran » 2016-05-10 03:43pm

Well, it's not like we haven't had carriers in Star Wars before. The Quasar Fire, anybody? The Acclamator is definitely a troop transport, and the Venator has a dual carrier/transport/warship role. Hell, the Ven even has a 'landing strip', so to speak.

The difference is mainly that they weren't straight-up fugly designs like this :P
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Re: Finally, another class of First Order warship

Post by MKSheppard » 2016-05-10 04:03pm

Fail. No full wing of TIE Avengers.
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Re: Finally, another class of First Order warship

Post by U.P. Cinnabar » 2016-05-10 04:17pm

Simon_Jester wrote:Honestly, the idea that this is a dedicated fighter/troopship actually makes a lot of sense.

The Imperial doctrine of multirole ships may well leave a lot to be desired from the point of view of something like the First Order. The First Order probably doesn't do as many 'police actions' as the Empire, so there isn't much point wasting space on their normal warships for stuff like AT-ATs and garrison bases. But at the same time, any political organization that controls numerous planets (even on the Rim) needs spacecraft capable of moving large forces of fighters and/or troops over interstellar distances.

So a "space carrier" really does fit- a subclass of warship that can physically hold the massive shuttle and fighter complements their usual line-of-battle ships can't handle.
On the other hand, if the First Order is strapped for resources and hulls, it would make equal sense for their starships to be as multi-role as possible, to get as much mileage out their machines as humanly possible.


Again, we will have to see more instances of the Maxima-A before we know for sure what its full capabilities are.
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Re: Finally, another class of First Order warship

Post by Galvatron » 2016-05-10 04:28pm

MKSheppard wrote:Fail. No full wing of TIE Avengers.
Are TIE Avengers still canon?
fractalsponge1 wrote:Ugh.
Could you model that?

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Re: Finally, another class of First Order warship

Post by NecronLord » 2016-05-10 04:29pm

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Re: Finally, another class of First Order warship

Post by madd0ct0r » 2016-05-10 04:33pm

twin bridges would make more sense than that offset thing. There's either something much denser in the opposing wing to keep it balanced, or something that runs the full length of the ship that needs the space. A spine weapon might have worked, but not for a carrier. The only thing I can think of would be some sort of catapult/catchermitt to allow craft to accelerate/decelerate INSIDE the ship. Does Wars have inertia dampers?

Oooh, if dampers apply than the bridge ceases to be such a liability. Perhaps the ship is designed to operate in 'broadside' mode, with the bridge (and main engines under it) kept further back from the firefight while exposing the max number of launch bays to the enemy. Shots that do land have to chew through a lot of expendable bays and crew habitation before reaching core systems.
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Re: Finally, another class of First Order warship

Post by biostem » 2016-05-10 04:38pm

Meh... not a great design, but still better than that Clone Wars era ship that opened an entire hatch the length of the ship just to launch a few fighters/shuttles.

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Re: Finally, another class of First Order warship

Post by Galvatron » 2016-05-10 04:46pm

What if that thing on the starboard side is an external docking mechanism for larger ships? Would that justify the bridge's location?

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Re: Finally, another class of First Order warship

Post by Esquire » 2016-05-10 04:54pm

Maxima-A implies either a Maxima-B or just plain Maxima - maybe this is a variant that needs a bunch of extra tower space, say for extra sensors or control facilities, and so they just stapled one one wherever it was most convenient?
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Re: Finally, another class of First Order warship

Post by Adam Reynolds » 2016-05-10 05:11pm

biostem wrote:Meh... not a great design, but still better than that Clone Wars era ship that opened an entire hatch the length of the ship just to launch a few fighters/shuttles.
Which is likely why the Venator went out of service in favor of the ISD. It was just too vulnerable to be worth keeping in service. Especially against the fighter dependent Rebel Alliance who would likely be more capable of exploiting that weakness than the CIS.

Though I wonder why the Acclamator class also went out of service. One possibility is that Imperial landing craft were smaller for a reason. They were intended to penetrate shields in a fashion a larger craft would be less effective at.

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Re: Finally, another class of First Order warship

Post by eMeM » 2016-05-10 05:12pm

biostem wrote:Meh... not a great design, but still better than that Clone Wars era ship that opened an entire hatch the length of the ship just to launch a few fighters/shuttles.
It allows them to launch a lot of fighters really fast, and there are secondary "hatches", like the one Obi-Wan uses in RotS.
And what would you say about the Finalizer which has a "flight deck" which runs throughout the entire length of the ship and cannot be closed? :D

@topic I don't like it just like I didn't like (Space) Landing Craft Infantry. What's next, Space Battleship Yamato?

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Re: Finally, another class of First Order warship

Post by fractalsponge1 » 2016-05-10 05:36pm

Galvatron wrote:
MKSheppard wrote:Fail. No full wing of TIE Avengers.
Are TIE Avengers still canon?
fractalsponge1 wrote:Ugh.
Could you model that?
It's pretty trivial to model. Whether the design is any good is an open question, imo :)

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Re: Finally, another class of First Order warship

Post by Galvatron » 2016-05-10 05:48pm

fractalsponge1 wrote:It's pretty trivial to model. Whether the design is any good is an open question, imo :)
Oh yeah?! Do you think you could do any better??











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Re: Finally, another class of First Order warship

Post by Simon_Jester » 2016-05-10 06:21pm

U.P. Cinnabar wrote:On the other hand, if the First Order is strapped for resources and hulls, it would make equal sense for their starships to be as multi-role as possible, to get as much mileage out their machines as humanly possible.

Again, we will have to see more instances of the Maxima-A before we know for sure what its full capabilities are.
If they were strapped, then either:
1) They wouldn't have been able to set up Starkiller Base, or
2) They'd have had to devote basically all their resources to the Base, and would have nothing left over for conventional forces.

In case (2), they wouldn't have enough conventional forces to be a threat before building the Base, in which case they wouldn't be worrying the New Republic badly enough to convince them to support a Resistance to oppose them.

I figure that the First Order has at least dozens if not hundreds of destroyer-class starships (compared to the tens of thousands the Empire had, plus various larger command ships and flagships). In which case a dedicated troop carrier variant starts to make more sense. Basically, they have enough ships that they can afford variant hulls, but they have proportionately more and relatively better armed enemies than the Empire ever had, so they can't afford to compromise ship-to-ship firepower.
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Re: Finally, another class of First Order warship

Post by Adam Reynolds » 2016-05-10 06:46pm

Simon_Jester wrote: In case (2), they wouldn't have enough conventional forces to be a threat before building the Base, in which case they wouldn't be worrying the New Republic badly enough to convince them to support a Resistance to oppose them.
Unless the reason the New Republic couldn't oppose them was political rather than military. If the New Republic has a policy of non-interventionism, I could see a need for The Resistance to deal with the First Order unoffically. For much the same reason the US has the CIA do operations of this sort rather than officially using the military.
I figure that the First Order has at least dozens if not hundreds of destroyer-class starships (compared to the tens of thousands the Empire had, plus various larger command ships and flagships). In which case a dedicated troop carrier variant starts to make more sense. Basically, they have enough ships that they can afford variant hulls, but they have proportionately more and relatively better armed enemies than the Empire ever had, so they can't afford to compromise ship-to-ship firepower.
Not to disagree with this, because even if the First Order is minuscule, they should still reasonably have hundreds of ships lying around for such an occasion.

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