Rogue One: A Star Wars Story

[Burak Gazan]

...but it didn't say the rebel spies survived. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

Vader's conversation with his aide after capturing Leia, suggested that they did NOT. I'm betting the "win" is the plans getting sent to Leia, but as far as the team goes, not so much

[Galvatron]

...but it didn't say the rebel spies survived. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

Vader's conversation with his aide after capturing Leia, suggested that they did NOT. I'm betting the "win" is the plans getting sent to Leia, but as far as the team goes, not so much

That's why Jyn Erso slumping dead over the send button is how I foresee it all ending. Or maybe I've just played too much Mass Effect.

[Iroscato]

Or maybe I've just played too much Mass Effect.

You say that like it's a thing that's possible.

[Galvatron]

Or maybe I've just played too much Mass Effect.

You say that like it's a thing that's possible.

Like having too much firepower?

[Adam Reynolds]

One interesting element about the plans R2 has is that they already seem to have been analyzed. The second he plugs into the computer, the same display we see in the Rebel briefing appears. While the technicians presumably verified what they were shown, they probably didn't have to sit down and analyze things from nothing. Notice that the Death Star appeared about the same time that R2 plugged into the computer on Yavin.

Perhaps this has something to do with why they were unable to transmit the plans, as it would have meant that the Empire would have figured out exactly what they were planning to attack. Surprise was the only reason they succeeded, in which the Empire didn't bother to defend the Death Star. Given that we also apparently see a larger Rebel fleet in the Rouge One trailers, it makes sense that the reason it left Yavin was so that it could be something of a trap.

According to the canon novel Lost Stars, the Imperial Navy had no idea exactly what flaws existed with the analysis that was given during the battle being done by a junior officer who just happened to make the connection, which indicates that these might have been the only plans to the Death Star. If that is true, perhaps Galen Erso ensured that his daughter and thus the Rebel Alliance would wind up with the only valid copy.

Bail probably recognized that the momentum of the Rebel Alliance was building up with the successful theft of the Death Star plans and knew that he needed to contact Obi-Wan and get him and Luke involved at this point. There was also possibly a run in with Vader that he didn't want to see happen again without a Jedi on his side. There is a fairly good chance that at least a couple characters are killed by Vader's hand.

[bilateralrope]

The more important question is why they didn't just broadcast it into the clear so that there was no way for the Empire to recover it. There is zero downside to doing so.

How large are the various criminal groups in Star Wars ?

Do any of them have the capability to build a Death Star if they got hold of the plans ?

So what does the galactic underground economy use for communications? Presumably if Jabba the Hutt needs to put a price on someone's head, he transmits the information out somehow. Is there a galactic pirate radio network, or is the Empire unable to stop them using the proper galactic internet?

If there is, it's unlikely to have the kind of bandwidth needed to transmit the Death Star plans before the Empire arrives and blows up wherever they are being transmitted from.

For that matter, Holonet might not have enough bandwidth.

Encryption wouldn't help unless people are regularly sending transmissions of that size around.

[Galvatron]

The more important question is why they didn't just broadcast it into the clear so that there was no way for the Empire to recover it. There is zero downside to doing so.

How large are the various criminal groups in Star Wars ?

Do any of them have the capability to build a Death Star if they got hold of the plans ?

Maybe. Look at what the First Order created without the Empire's vast resources.

[NeoGoomba]

Ugh I hate to even mention it, but if a Death Star out of a crime syndicate's league, something akin to a Darksaber might not be.

And I know I'll sound pretty dark, but I'm going to be very disappointed if Rogue One DOESN'T end with Vader shredding the rebel team. To me he's the ultimate Chekov's Gun in this movie.

[Joun_Lord]

Its supposed to be a darker Star Wars movie but I doubt they would make it that dark.

Still I'd appreciate if they did that. Make for something a bit more realistic (which apparently they are going for in a movie featuring people fighting dozens of armed soldiers in melee combat without getting pasted) and show that war is hell, that for some there ain't no happy ending even for people other then faceless goons.

Helps also remove the eventual questions that plague the Rebelscum tv series crew, where the fuck are they? Why aren't Freddy Prinze Jr, Mand'oh Rainbow Dash, notReysmom, and robot Wash in stuff like Yavin, Hoth, or Endor? Especially Endor where it was supposed to be pretty much every Rebel being thrown at the 2nd Death Star in an all or nothing fight (assuming the new EU hasn't changed it to where the Rebels have a couple fleets or something shoved up somebodies asshole somehwere).

Is a good point people are making about not wanting to let the Death Star plans get out. Even if nobody else has the resources to build another complete Death Star (atleast not very fast) I'm sure whatever other galactic powers, other Imperials, former CSI, criminals, corporations, and even some more hardcore Rebel sects. Better to not try to transmit anything that can be intercepted.

[Elheru Aran]

Joun, don't know if you follow the Rebels thread, but someone observed awhile ago that Captain Rex with his beard looks a *lot* like a bearded Rebel commando on Endor, and Filoni has basically confirmed that in his headcanon they're the same character.

[Joun_Lord]

No I don't follow that thread, just no real interest in that series. I enjoyed Clone Wars 3D well enough for several reasons including Super battle droids that didn't sound like they inhaled helium, Jar Jar that wasn't insufferable, and Karen Traviss's work being shit on so fucking hard she quit the franchise and even that show I maybe saw 20%. For a show that is about people I don't like, not an Imperial apologist but I think Rebels are dicks, so seeing them murder dudes I kinda sympathize with and their dead bodies getting tagged by some rainbow haired Mand'oh is not really on my to do list.

My sympathy for the villains aside, bearded Endor dude looks like a bearded dude and looks the same as most any bearded dude. Filoni might think of bearded dude as Rex but it doesn't mean its true or canonical. Filoni could make it canon if he really wanted to but that I think would be kinda terrible injecting some pet character into the films though thats just my opinion.

Right now bearded dude as Rex is just a fanon theory, no more valid then the theorys that Orso is Rey's mother, Snoke is Mace Windu, Lando is Finn's dad, and Ahsoka will be in Rogue One.

[The Romulan Republic]

I'd actually love it if Ahsoka was in Rogue One, though I don't expect it to happen.

Lando being Finn's dad is a "theory" I hate though, because it has absolutely no basis other than "they're both black, therefore they must be related".

Likewise I loath all "Snoke is actually (insert character here)" theories. Is it so unthinkable to the rabid fan wanker crowd that the series might actually have something new in it?

[Adam Reynolds]

No I don't follow that thread, just no real interest in that series. I enjoyed Clone Wars 3D well enough for several reasons including Super battle droids that didn't sound like they inhaled helium, Jar Jar that wasn't insufferable, and Karen Traviss's work being shit on so fucking hard she quit the franchise and even that show I maybe saw 20%. For a show that is about people I don't like, not an Imperial apologist but I think Rebels are dicks, so seeing them murder dudes I kinda sympathize with and their dead bodies getting tagged by some rainbow haired Mand'oh is not really on my to do list.

How is referring to the death of occupying stormtroppers that have committed actual xenocide(Geonosis for starters) murder anything but Impieral apology? Even just the ones on Lorthal wipe out Tarkin Town without much restraint.

Though it is actually likely that many of those stormtroopers are not actually dead. More than once we have seen such characters moving after they lie on the ground, as well as cases of fellow stormtroopers checking on fallen comrades after battle. Presumably the function of stormtrooper armor is to prevent death more than it is to offer real protection against injury. This is in contrast to clone armor that seems to offer better protection against injury but less against death.

Also, I think the term Mand'oh died with the new canon. At least I certainly hope so.

My sympathy for the villains aside, bearded Endor dude looks like a bearded dude and looks the same as most any bearded dude. Filoni might think of bearded dude as Rex but it doesn't mean its true or canonical. Filoni could make it canon if he really wanted to but that I think would be kinda terrible injecting some pet character into the films though thats just my opinion.

Right now bearded dude as Rex is just a fanon theory, no more valid then the theorys that Orso is Rey's mother, Snoke is Mace Windu, Lando is Finn's dad, and Ahsoka will be in Rogue One.

The fact that Filoni has it has his headcanon makes it a bit more significant, given that he is a major figure in the current franchise. He has notably done this already once or twice, doing things like adding Darth Bane to Clone Wars after the Disney takeover. There is also the fact that Saw Gerrera has now gone from Clone Wars to Rogue One, which lends a bit of credence to this theory.

The old EU was also full of this, doing things like giving Tycho a role during the Battle of Endor, making one of the commandos from Endor Juddar Page, etc. This is hardly different.

I'd actually love it if Ahsoka was in Rogue One, though I don't expect it to happen.

Lando being Finn's dad is a "theory" I hate though, because it has absolutely no basis other than "they're both black, therefore they must be related".

Likewise I loath all "Snoke is actually (insert character here)" theories. Is it so unthinkable to the rabid fan wanker crowd that the series might actually have something new in it?

What is true for Lando/Finn is equally true for Jyn/Rey, and makes just as little sense for the same reason. Daisy Ridley actually pointed out that there is more than one brunette British character in Star Wars. Frankly these ideas are nothing more than a different form of conspiracy theories, in which random details are assumed to mean whatever the theorist wants them to.

The worst theory I have heard lately is that Jyn's crew become the Knights of Ren, given that they apparently have similar styles according to one of the art books from The Force Awakens. Oddly enough one of them is named The Rogue. Really hope that one isn't true.

The absurdist theories like this are a large part of what I see as wrong with The Force Awakens. How much did we really wonder who Vader was when we first watched A New Hope? While it didn't have any answers to that question, it didn't leave us with a question either. The same is true with Luke and Leia. We "knew" who Luke's parents were. It was simply that what we knew was incorrect. With Rey they deliberately set it up as a grand mystery without giving a wrong answer that still makes sense in context.

[RogueIce]

The more important question is why they didn't just broadcast it into the clear so that there was no way for the Empire to recover it. There is zero downside to doing so. It would have been one thing if the Empire didn't know the plans were compromised and thus keeping the fact that they were compromised secret makes sense as it allows for an element of surprise. Maybe that was the case, the Rebels didn't knoq they were found out until the Devastator attacked and at that point they were jammed and they couldn't. That could justify a smart, targeted and limited initial transmission of the plans. We all know the writers will be too stupid come up with a good reason like that though. And if the Empire doesn't know off that bat, Rogue One one can't have its stupid action/splosions ending.

Even if the above was the case though, that doesn't explain why Leia didn't upload the plans to StarTube after their escape from the DS.

As it is now its not unlikely that even when they got the plans to Yavin they remained there only. Good think they pulled it off, or else nobody else would have had a chance to find another weakness to exploit.

If the Alliance found a weakness, then anyone could - including those loyal to the Empire. Apparently it's not that difficult for them, as after a single attack run they figured out what was going on and warned Tarkin. So it's a calculated gamble: holding on the plans is bad if you get wiped out, but shooting them into the galaxy could cause a lot of people to take a look, find the weak spot, and inform the Empire of it. Or even the Death Star personnel themselves. For all we know, had Luke not made the shot, steps would have been taken to address the weakness anyway. So it wouldn't have mattered in any event, since by attacking at all they tipped off the Empire about the weak point.

And for all we know they did transmit other copies to other Rebel cells, but by the time we ever see them it was rather irrelevant to anything.

[Joun_Lord]

How is referring to the death of occupying stormtroppers that have committed actual xenocide(Geonosis for starters) murder anything but Impieral apology? Even just the ones on Lorthal wipe out Tarkin Town without much restraint.

Though it is actually likely that many of those stormtroopers are not actually dead. More than once we have seen such characters moving after they lie on the ground, as well as cases of fellow stormtroopers checking on fallen comrades after battle. Presumably the function of stormtrooper armor is to prevent death more than it is to offer real protection against injury. This is in contrast to clone armor that seems to offer better protection against injury but less against death.

Also, I think the term Mand'oh died with the new canon. At least I certainly hope so.

I'm a movie purist heretical as that might be to myself only a few years ago. As far as I'm concerned both the old and new EU are non-canon to me and so don't know about any xenocide of Geonosis or somebody wiping out a town called Tarkin Town or how now apparently everyone has a Stormtrooper face in the Empire. I just don't care, I stopped caring about anything beyond the movies and even the movies to a degree after all the stupid bullshit put out, not just the Travisstys. Stupid shit that continues to be put out like Order 66 chips, the Imperial Army being Stormtroopers-lite, and Stormtroopers still being used for every goddamn thing despite supposed to be being the equivalent of the Marine Corps.

I sympathize with faceless grunts doing a job, fighting for a nation that they might right or wrong think is valid, soldiers protecting their homes and people. Same reason I sympathize with the grunt Rebel troopers even if I think they are following a group whos cause is just only by accident. Same as I can sympathize with Private Cletus of the Confederate States of Murica despite thinking everything about the Confederacy is complete and utter garbage that was rightfully destroyed and rightfully maligned by everyone but complete morons including too many of my neighbors as the racist shithole founded on slavery. I don't agree with what Private Cletus is fighting for anymore then I agree with what Trooper Cle'tus is fighting for.

And yes while Mando wank itself probably hasn't died the Fandalorian Karen Traviss lead rewrite of the Mandalorians into the 3rd main faction of the Star Wars universe right alongside the Sith and Jedi has thankfully died along with the rest of the EU. Alot of her stuff was killed with the 3d Clone Wars tv series before that though, the reason I actually started watching it. Had to respect a series that saw an author saying shit like the Kaminoians killed defective clones, Mandalorians were rah rah super warriors living on a jungle paradise and saying "nah fuck that noise" and having a deformed janitor clone as an EXTREMELY well written character and the Mandalorians as pacifists living on a bombed out wasteland planet.

That was probably the closest I've ever been to actually excited about EU Star Wars since I first found Tales of a Bounty Hunters in my middle school library.

The fact that Filoni has it has his headcanon makes it a bit more significant, given that he is a major figure in the current franchise. He has notably done this already once or twice, doing things like adding Darth Bane to Clone Wars after the Disney takeover. There is also the fact that Saw Gerrera has now gone from Clone Wars to Rogue One, which lends a bit of credence to this theory.

The old EU was also full of this, doing things like giving Tycho a role during the Battle of Endor, making one of the commandos from Endor Juddar Page, etc. This is hardly different.

It carries more weight then if I said the stormtrooper who bangs his head was actually a secret Rebel agent former Clonetrooper who was planning on destroying the Death Star by sticking a banana in its exhaust port. You can tell he's a Clone because Jango Fett bumps his head too, clearly its a genetic trait as even Boba bumps his head (and whole body) against Jabba's sailbarge. Still don't mean its canon until its confirmed. Even shit that Lucas said back when he was lord and master of Star Wars I don't think was automatically canon, shit like him saying Boba Fett in his headcanon being dead mattered little.

It bothers me because its trying to insert some random pet character into an event that has little to do with them. Filoni likes Rex, clearly bearded guy is Rex. Its bothersome, its fucking with somebody elses work, its overriding what they created to put your own stamp on it.

The absurdist theories like this are a large part of what I see as wrong with The Force Awakens. How much did we really wonder who Vader was when we first watched A New Hope? While it didn't have any answers to that question, it didn't leave us with a question either. The same is true with Luke and Leia. We "knew" who Luke's parents were. It was simply that what we knew was incorrect. With Rey they deliberately set it up as a grand mystery without giving a wrong answer that still makes sense in context.

There was no internet really back in the lates 70s and early 80s (atleast nowhere near what it would evolve into). People could chat with each other in message boards and trade theories. But I'm sure people still theorized even then. I'm sure during nerd meet ups and conventions people did the same thing they do now, conjecture, make theories, and shit like that. You can find some people on like reddit talking about theories people used to have during the OT era.

During the Prequels people did the same thing, made theories. One in particular I liked was the theory that Palpatine and Sidious were different characters, Palpatine was a clone of Sidious who Sidious would eventually take the place of.

Nowadays its just far easier to find and interact with others about theories thanks to places like Reddit and Faceboob but by no means is it a new phenomenon.

[NecronLord]

I sympathize with faceless grunts doing a job, fighting for a nation that they might right or wrong think is valid, soldiers protecting their homes and people. Same reason I sympathize with the grunt Rebel troopers even if I think they are following a group whos cause is just only by accident. Same as I can sympathize with Private Cletus of the Confederate States of Murica despite thinking everything about the Confederacy is complete and utter garbage that was rightfully destroyed and rightfully maligned by everyone but complete morons including too many of my neighbors as the racist shithole founded on slavery. I don't agree with what Private Cletus is fighting for anymore then I agree with what Trooper Cle'tus is fighting for.

If you're a movie purist, what Imperial Army?

There are two prongs to your argument from what I can see - that you're not seeing the Empire do enough bad things, okay, sure, the story group for Rebels is the same as for all new televised movies, so cool your jets and you'll likely see them do bad things if run-time allows. Their First Order descendants committed a massacre within the first five minutes of Episode VII after all.

The other one is the argument that the people on the ground are just regular people. Sure. Damn straight. The problem with that argument is that there's no bottom to it. You can sympathize with Vandrax the World Eater space marine who only worships the Blood God because his officers told him it was the way of things now, and put stuff in his head to make him constantly furious. You can sympathize with Jabba's guards as they haul slaves in to amuse him until they die, and you can sympathise with Wolesh the Scarran military-rapist - he's a low caste scarran doing his job, he's not responsible for their government's policies.

This stormtrooper on the right is probably thinking 'I hope this fucker doesn't crap his pants, or I'll probably end up having to swab his ass clean' - that doesn't mean that a rebel should not shoot him because his thoughts are human and one can empathise with them.

Empathy shouldn't have to be the same thing as moral judgement.

If you're going to say that the base humanity of an aggressor means that you have a duty to refrain from violence against them in a just cause, then the only morally consistent stance is absolutism-pacifism. If you think any violence at all is acceptable then there's no reason to be an imperial apologist.

[Anacronian]

Interesting, In this trailer (at 0.28) we can see how the shields actually open.



[Formatting fix ~ NL]

[Joun_Lord]

If you're a movie purist, what Imperial Army?

There are two prongs to your argument from what I can see - that you're not seeing the Empire do enough bad things, okay, sure, the story group for Rebels is the same as for all new televised movies, so cool your jets and you'll likely see them do bad things if run-time allows. Their First Order descendants committed a massacre within the first five minutes of Episode VII after all.

The other one is the argument that the people on the ground are just regular people. Sure. Damn straight. The problem with that argument is that there's no bottom to it. You can sympathize with Vandrax the World Eater space marine who only worships the Blood God because his officers told him it was the way of things now, and put stuff in his head to make him constantly furious. You can sympathize with Jabba's guards as they haul slaves in to amuse him until they die, and you can sympathise with Wolesh the Scarran military-rapist - he's a low caste scarran doing his job, he's not responsible for their government's policies.

This stormtrooper on the right is probably thinking 'I hope this fucker doesn't crap his pants, or I'll probably end up having to swab his ass clean' - that doesn't mean that a rebel should not shoot him because his thoughts are human and one can empathise with them.

Empathy shouldn't have to be the same thing as moral judgement.

If you're going to say that the base humanity of an aggressor means that you have a duty to refrain from violence against them in a just cause, then the only morally consistent stance is absolutism-pacifism. If you think any violence at all is acceptable then there's no reason to be an imperial apologist.

The AT-ST drivers and presumably the AT-AT drivers (who admittedly wore Stormtrooper style helmets) were probably Army.

I didn't say the Empire didn't do bad thing. They did, blowing up planets full of civilians, burning people or shooting them until they are smoking skeletons, and torturing people kinda all prove that fact. Say what you will about Rebels but to my knowledge they never left behind any smoking skeletons. I don't sympathize with the Empire, I sympathize with Imperials.

And not even all Imperials. Kinda hard to sympathize with some trooper shooting Beru and Lars until they are blackened skeletons even if for some reason an argument could be constructed they were guilty of something (having stolen Imperial property even though they didn't know it or maybe Lars decided to try to punch out a trooper).

Its like the difference between sympathizing with a normal, non-war crime committing German soldier in WWII or some SS asshole shoving people into gas chambers, raping civilians, or doing any of the other horrible shit Nazis were known to do. Both served a terrible regime, both were soldiers in a war killing people however only one could be considered a murderer, a monster.

Not fighting back against someone even if you really don't want to kill them, even if you sympathize with them is not something that I'd really suggest. I call Rebels murderers though because they are attacking legal troops, sometimes not in the defense of themselves and others, while not operating under any sort of legal government or group. They are practicing vigilante justice.

Sure they might be the good guys fighting the bad but still, they are extra-judiciously killing people. I'm sure by my bizarre logic one could argue American colonists attacking British troops were murderers too, which I'm sure the argument could be made. I'm sure the British branded members of the Continental Army as criminals and traitors. Did they consider death of British soldiers murder too? Nothing I can find confirms this though.

To put it lightly I just have a distaste for the Rebellion. Not as much as the Empire, again no Rebel made smoking skeletons, but still.

[Galvatron]

To put it lightly I just have a distaste for the Rebellion. Not as much as the Empire, again no Rebel made smoking skeletons, but still.

In the new EU, the two major political parties of the New Republic are the Populists and the Centrists. Leia is a Populist. You seem like a Centrist.

[Kojiro]

And I know I'll sound pretty dark, but I'm going to be very disappointed if Rogue One DOESN'T end with Vader shredding the rebel team. To me he's the ultimate Chekov's Gun in this movie.

I'm really hoping for this for two reasons. First, it will lend a sense of consistency to the pursuit. Vader hunts down the team and they put up a valiant but otherwise hopeless fight against him. Ultimately he fails to stop the plans getting out but the Imps track the beamed out plans and see it's gone to the Tantive IV. A short hyperspace jump later and we have the opening crawl to SW:ANH. It lends some more reason for Vader to be so frustrated at his attempts to locate the plans.

Secondly I want to see a female protagonist actually pay the price for real heroism. I've seen male characters die heroically but females... they're rare as leads as is, let alone where they actually die. I'm struggling to actually think of many films where a lead female dies heroically. Giving your life for a noble cause is among the most heroic, brave and respected things anyone can do but in Hollywood that tier seems largely reserved for men. Women should be shown to have that bravery too.

[Joun_Lord]

In the new EU, the two major political parties of the New Republic are the Populists and the Centrists. Leia is a Populist. You seem like a Centrist.

Kinda but not really. I'd probably support a stronger central government and stronger military as I do IRL but not have some secret love for the Empire except for their style (yeah I'm so shallow I'd probably have more support for the Rebellion if their troops were faceless goons). Having total autonomy of member worlds, a weak central government and a teensy tiny military sounds like the US before the Civil War or a libertarians wet dream, neither of which I'd like.

The Centrists sound better on paper other then their closet Imperial leanings but apparently they want a strong central government while wanting member berry worlds to be responsible for their own problems which seems.........incredibly stupid. Hey put all the power in our hands but solve your own problems and natural disasters.

Honestly the "Centrists" and "Populists" sound like terrible strawmans of Republicans and Democrats. Closet Nazi rich idiots who want a strong government and strong military while not giving a shit about little people problems vs a bunch of salt of the earth soft weak but idealistically noble knobs with a dislike of central government and the military except when it suits them. Is Princess Leia supposed to be Hillary Clinton? I guess Snoke is Donald, Make Empire Great Again.

[Galvatron]

I'm struggling to actually think of many films where a lead female dies heroically.

Alien 3?

[The Romulan Republic]

Leads seldom die at all in Hollywood action films. Or they die and get resurrected.

[Kojiro]

I guess I'm looking more for something like Captain Miller in Saving Private Ryan. Something where the movie makes me believe the lead doesn't have character shields for days. Even Ripley's death in Aliens (assuming I'm remembering correctly) was more like euthanasia than a heroic sacrifice because she was already going to die, she's robbed of the chance to sacrifice herself. Which don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it wasn't brave but it's lessened by the fact she wasn't choosing between life and death, but just two types of death.

[Adam Reynolds]

I sympathize with faceless grunts doing a job, fighting for a nation that they might right or wrong think is valid, soldiers protecting their homes and people. Same reason I sympathize with the grunt Rebel troopers even if I think they are following a group whos cause is just only by accident. Same as I can sympathize with Private Cletus of the Confederate States of Murica despite thinking everything about the Confederacy is complete and utter garbage that was rightfully destroyed and rightfully maligned by everyone but complete morons including too many of my neighbors as the racist shithole founded on slavery. I don't agree with what Private Cletus is fighting for anymore then I agree with what Trooper Cle'tus is fighting for.

The problem with that analogy is that someone living in South Carolina has no real ability to leave his home state and fight for the Union as a result of the economic conditions of the time. This does not apply to Star Wars, in which Imperial soldiers are free to defect in droves, and many do exactly this in both versions of the EU. In the new canon even Wedge Antillies trained as an Imperial pilot. Even going by the films we have the fact that Biggs went to the Imperial Academy and still joined the Rebellion by the time of Yavin.

There is also the fact that General Sherman would have made Tarkin proud, which weakens the moral superiority of the Union in this context. Nothing in any source has done the same for the Rebel Alliance. The same could be said for American strategic bombing in WW2, in which a German fighter pilot could in some ways claim the moral high ground in that he was fighting to prevent bombs from dropping on cities. When you have an internal rebellion like the Rebel Alliance that clearly has moral superiority, it is much harder to justify fighting it than when you have an external enemy like the Second World War.

The problem is that the Empire has committed just about every war crime one can find throughout modern history, while the Rebel Alliance has not.

Kinda but not really. I'd probably support a stronger central government and stronger military as I do IRL but not have some secret love for the Empire except for their style (yeah I'm so shallow I'd probably have more support for the Rebellion if their troops were faceless goons). Having total autonomy of member worlds, a weak central government and a teensy tiny military sounds like the US before the Civil War or a libertarians wet dream, neither of which I'd like.

The Centrists sound better on paper other then their closet Imperial leanings but apparently they want a strong central government while wanting member berry worlds to be responsible for their own problems which seems.........incredibly stupid. Hey put all the power in our hands but solve your own problems and natural disasters.

Honestly the "Centrists" and "Populists" sound like terrible strawmans of Republicans and Democrats. Closet Nazi rich idiots who want a strong government and strong military while not giving a shit about little people problems vs a bunch of salt of the earth soft weak but idealistically noble knobs with a dislike of central government and the military except when it suits them. Is Princess Leia supposed to be Hillary Clinton? I guess Snoke is Donald, Make Empire Great Again.

Clone Wars had the same problems with its political episodes. Padme almost came across as a good guy only become she was supposed to be rather than because her points made any sense. A major war is not the time to cut military spending for the benefit of social welfare programs as she wanted to do.

Yet the Kaminioan was portrayed as largely evil and out for profits when she wanted to expand production of the Clone Army, even though it was often the only defense against the CIS armies.