a new, better and The Reasonable refutation of the Plinkus reviews... maybe?

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Re: a new, better and The Reasonable refutation of the Plinkus reviews... maybe?

Post by Crazedwraith »

Prometheus Unbound wrote:
lGrand Anhoop wrote:RLM's EpI-III reviews are almost complete bunk, and I've got a whole list of arguments to back that up..
Yeah but he's funny and creative - so he has fans. Rebutting them like that weirdo did with 120 pages is both sad and pathetic. Because no one. And I mean no one gives a shit. Not on that level.
You mean aside from all the people here who applauded Raynor and read his work?

|Grand Anhoop wrote: Btw, who cares about 108 page guy? Read this thread's title
If you've got arguments to make. Go ahead and make them. 108 Page has, you haven't as far as I can see.
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Re: a new, better and The Reasonable refutation of the Plinkus reviews... maybe?

Post by Knife »

Adam Reynolds wrote:
Knife wrote:I'm a huge nerd, was 4 years old when SW IV came out, and enjoyed the series up to and including today. What the hell is RLM?
He is a youtube video reviewer who came up with extremely long winded criticisms of the prequels as films. Supposedly they are extremely well written and thorough. I haven't been able to watch them for more than five minutes due to the fact that the voice used has to be one of the worst narrators I have ever heard. Those who already disliked the prequels latched onto them. User Jim Raynor wrote a hundred page rebuttal*to the first hour long review of TPM.

You really never saw the debates from several years ago when they first came out? It was around 2010 or so. I'm pretty sure Mike was still around.

* Does anyone know if the site http://writersdisease.net/ is his? It seems to host the rather lengthy essay now.
Ah yes, I remember that now. Seems to me that critic was kind of a douche, but I haven't seen it in forever. Why is this RLM dude a benchmark in nerdom or half the interweb in SW fandom?
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But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red
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Re: a new, better and The Reasonable refutation of the Plinkus reviews... maybe?

Post by Galvatron »

Patroklos wrote:
LM's EpI-III reviews are almost complete bunk
Since most of it is opnion its not really possible. Its great you disagree with them, many people disagree with you.
Exactly. It's why the proper reaction to any serious "refutation" of his reviews are met with derision, like his own video about Raynor's manifesto (that I posted on page 1).
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Re: a new, better and The Reasonable refutation of the Plinkus reviews... maybe?

Post by Prometheus Unbound »

lGrand Anhoop wrote: It's funny how a lot of those people who "don't give a shit", are more than happy to insist on the unassailable correctness of these reviews whenever no one's challenging them - could it be that "don't give a shit" is just an excuse and in reality they just don't wanna be shown wrong cause that makes them feel butthurt?
I don't know. You'd have to ask one of them.

As a reminder, with regard to RLM I said:

"Yeah but he's funny and creative - so he has fans. Rebutting them like that weirdo did with 120 pages is both sad and pathetic."

I stand by that. It's a youtube video that's more divisive than the PT itself. He has an opinion about a film. He presents it well. He does it in a funny way. He's creative. He's persuasive. I presume you don't want to deny that, on a really nitpicky level? Can we assume that's true?

If so, then... pulling his reviews apart piece by piece, sentence by sentence, into a 108 page essay is... come on. That isn't normal. I really don't mean to offend and I may get a warning for this since I think he's posted here before (?) but it's ... autistic behaviour at it's most apparent. I do not mean that as an insult to the condition or its sufferers.

Some of what RLM say is true. Some isn't. Some's just an interpretation through a certain lens. But... out of the millions of views they got, how many actually read all 108 pages of that rebuttal? I downloaded it. Am I one of those stats? I dunno. I gave up 2 pages in and deleted it. There was no joy in it. It was hostile, flaming nitpicks. RLM isn't *hostile*, he's more sad. He doesn't HATE star wars. Raynor HATES the reviews.

And people who just find the reviews entertaining, don't concern me atm - if you don't make any claims, you've got nothing to back up, simple as that.
I made no claims whatsoever about RLM's factual content other than they were creative and funny. Jeese. Hostile, much?
Craizedwraith wrote:You mean aside from all the people here who applauded Raynor and read his work?
Yes, I mean aside from all the 200 regulars on this very, very old and specific nerdiest of nerdiest hostile star wars fan boy den of the Internet. Exactly that. Outside of this forum and maybe some people who can count the grains of sand on a beach from a photo on Reddit and TheForce.net, who actually, deep down, ... even knows this thing exists, let alone has an opinion, let alone has read any of it other than news reports, let alone have read comments on it, let alone have downloaded it, let alone have opened it, let alone have read it in its entirety, let alone have read more than 10 pages ?

Yeah, out side of them, who gives a shit?


And RLM isn't entirely invalid.

https://youtu.be/IdQwKPVGQsY?t=1m39s

That bit about the gas and poison. That is valid. Bam, movie over in the first 4 minutes.
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Re: a new, better and The Reasonable refutation of the Plinkus reviews... maybe?

Post by Crazedwraith »

Yeah, it's not like the Jedi have supernatural senses that warn them of Danger or anything right?

So aside from all the people who care about it. No-one cares about the rebuttal. I could say the same thing of RML.
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Re: a new, better and The Reasonable refutation of the Plinkus reviews... maybe?

Post by Galvatron »

Prometheus Unbound wrote:
Craizedwraith wrote:You mean aside from all the people here who applauded Raynor and read his work?
Yes, I mean aside from all the 200 regulars on this very, very old and specific nerdiest of nerdiest hostile star wars fan boy den of the Internet. Exactly that. Outside of this forum and maybe some people who can count the grains of sand on a beach from a photo on Reddit and TheForce.net, who actually, deep down, ... even knows this thing exists, let alone has an opinion, let alone has read any of it other than news reports, let alone have read comments on it, let alone have downloaded it, let alone have opened it, let alone have read it in its entirety, let alone have read more than 10 pages ?

Yeah, out side of them, who gives a shit?
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Re: a new, better and The Reasonable refutation of the Plinkus reviews... maybe?

Post by lGrand Anhoop »

Patroklos wrote: Sure you do. You and a thousand new posters who show up here claiming to have "destroyed someone". That goes for the thousands of posters who do the exact opposite. Why don't you link the thread and show us your power.
Link where? Only thing I mentioned was the RLM boards, and they deleted my threads from there. Didn't exactly "destroy" them either, given how they didn't even attempt to address anything ;)


When people go "LOLZ I DESTOYED THEM" they are engaging in the same behavior they claim to despise from the RLM reviews.
I think they make bunk arguments, I don't despise their swagger per se.




RLM's EpI-III reviews are almost complete bunk
Since most of it is opnion its not really possible. Its great you disagree with them, many people disagree with you.
Some of it is opinion, some of it factual statements, various forms of "reasoning" and mostly some kind of combination of those - I can usually tell which is which, don't worry.
Galvatron wrote:Exactly. It's why the proper reaction to any serious "refutation" of his reviews are met with derision, like his own video about Raynor's manifesto (that I posted on page 1).
Not really - refutations are mocked for being too nerdy, tone-deaf, wooley-artistic-symbolic, or fanboyish / making excuses.

Mike Stuckchuck said different things in interviews - occasionally that the reviews were just his opinion; but he also voiced the sentiment that people with positive views on I-III are "religious" or something like that, and that's certainly the attitude he conveys in his videos, Jay Bauman and everyone else in the RLM boards, and most fans out there on the internet.
If Mike really thinks that it'S all subjective and 108 takes it too seriously - that wise zen realization doesn't seem to have spread anywhere outside his own person, even the rest of the RLM triumvirate.



Listen, I am an RLM fan and find most of the reviews they made to factually accurate when that is relevant and to align with my opinion where that is relevant. That said, while I will argue with people one way or the other for shits and giggles for most of it there is no objective right.
Even when they're "factually accurate"?

Those reviews endure because they resonate with their fans and SW fans alike.
Irrationality and ideology have been with the SW community at least the entire century, and the irrational detractors of I-III are mostly the ones who hold RLM up as a valid indictment.

Anyway, this looks like it might be interesting, though not sure yet given your "it's just opinion" attitude. Hmm. So what are those factually accurate bits, in your mind?



______


Crazedwraith wrote: If you've got arguments to make. Go ahead and make them. 108 Page has, you haven't as far as I can see.
As I've said in my OP, only if there's some good opposition - that doesn't go the whole "but just opinions so who cares" route, that's boring too.
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Re: a new, better and The Reasonable refutation of the Plinkus reviews... maybe?

Post by Galvatron »

While you're at it, refute these. They're the OTHER most viewed videos about TPM on YouTube. Go ahead, tell us all why they're "inaccurate" for jeering at that cinematic piece of shit.







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Re: a new, better and The Reasonable refutation of the Plinkus reviews... maybe?

Post by Crazedwraith »

I think you can be reasonably sure that Galvatron will take the other side if you want opposition. :P
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Re: a new, better and The Reasonable refutation of the Plinkus reviews... maybe?

Post by Patroklos »

lGrand Anhoop wrote:
Anyway, this looks like it might be interesting, though not sure yet given your "it's just opinion" attitude. Hmm. So what are those factually accurate bits, in your mind?

...

As I've said in my OP, only if there's some good opposition - that doesn't go the whole "but just opinions so who cares" route, that's boring too.
Like I said I get into these things for shits and giggles. I am not the one spoiling for a nerd fight, you are. Its your thread, if you want to discuss something kick things off.
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Re: a new, better and The Reasonable refutation of the Plinkus reviews... maybe?

Post by Elfdart »

lGrand Anhoop wrote:
No, because it has precedent in the OT and I pretty much figure that her remembering Padme (presuming she's not just mistaken) is due to her having a great memory, maybe assisted by the Force.
She said she died when Leia was really young, not while she was a screaming baby. False memory / Force visions is pretty much the only valid retcon one could go for, and even that's artificial and forced as fack.

Let's see it's a scene where she recounts a memory from when she was 4 years old :D
You do realize that a newborn infant is "very young" right?
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Re: a new, better and The Reasonable refutation of the Plinkus reviews... maybe?

Post by lGrand Anhoop »

[quote="Prometheus Unbound"}
Some of what RLM say is true. Some isn't. Some's just an interpretation through a certain lens. But... out of the millions of views they got, how many actually read all 108 pages of that rebuttal? I downloaded it. Am I one of those stats? I dunno. I gave up 2 pages in and deleted it. There was no joy in it. It was hostile, flaming nitpicks. RLM isn't *hostile*, he's more sad. He doesn't HATE star wars. Raynor HATES the reviews.
Hey, no need to tell me that - thread title :D :D :D
How many read those pages is irrelevant - the general principle is that anyone insisting on the accuracy / unassailability of the reviews and then doesn't read attempted refutations or makes dismissive remarks about them, is intellectually dishonest and pretty much a hack fraud.

Those who don't make such claims, are fine, which leads me to...

And people who just find the reviews entertaining, don't concern me atm - if you don't make any claims, you've got nothing to back up, simple as that.
I made no claims whatsoever about RLM's factual content other than they were creative and funny. Jeese. Hostile, much?
Huh? "Nothing to back up" = no "obligation" to do anything. That was pretty much the exact opposite of hostile :D



If so, then... pulling his reviews apart piece by piece, sentence by sentence, into a 108 page essay is... come on. That isn't normal. I really don't mean to offend and I may get a warning for this since I think he's posted here before (?) but it's ... autistic behaviour at it's most apparent. I do not mean that as an insult to the condition or its sufferers.
Haha I'm so not PC I'm gonna feel like a caged bird around here... better than TFN tho.

There's nothing inherently wrong about making some response to every part in those reviews that could be interpreted as sincere, or having some kind of pretense at accuracy, or superior taste.
Everything comes down to the content of those responses - and what little I read from 108, was very much a mixture of good points and stupid points.

Raynor is also an "ideologue" in this, just on the other side.


At any rate, I'm not much for responding sentence by sentence - I prefer starting with the general and then maybe cover some less important details.


Some of which, by the way...
And RLM isn't entirely invalid.

https://youtu.be/IdQwKPVGQsY?t=1m39s

That bit about the gas and poison. That is valid. Bam, movie over in the first 4 minutes.
A lot of those logical nitpicks are pretty solid - but he himself says that that's just a bit of fun and the "larger problems" are what counts, and he's off the mark on most of those.

With regards to the nitpicks like the gas, as "film criticism" it's really taking the wrong approach because it doesn't address the question how or whether this negatively impacts the sequence's quality - questions such as whether logic matters much at all in areas like these, or whether the fact that a few altered lines could've retained the visuals, improved the logic and not have had much of a general impact at all, counts for anything ;)
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Re: a new, better and The Reasonable refutation of the Plinkus reviews... maybe?

Post by Elfdart »

Knife wrote:Why is this RLM dude a benchmark in nerdom or half the interweb in SW fandom?
Because there's a small army of fucktards who (a) can't think for themselves, (b) prefer to let the Red Letter Moron do the thinking for them and most importantly, (c) spam up the comments section of just about every web site that mentions Star Wars or George Lucas with links to Stoklasshole's hour-long videos where he "jokes" about abducting and mutilating women in his basement -hur hurrr!
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Re: a new, better and The Reasonable refutation of the Plinkus reviews... maybe?

Post by lGrand Anhoop »

where he "jokes" about abducting and mutilating women in his basement -hur hurrr!
Dark humor and BDSM are very much my thing, and those actresses had fun as well - so I won't be on board with you on that one at the very least ;)

Galvatron wrote:While you're at it, refute these. They're the OTHER most viewed videos about TPM on YouTube. Go ahead, tell us all why they're "inaccurate" for jeering at that cinematic piece of shit.
Now that's the kinda tone I came looking for!

Whether those 4 are as absurd as RLM remains to be seen (now) - watched them a long time ago but hardly remember anything in particular.

A recurring pattern in my "refutation" is that I can make accurate criticisms of I-III in the same areas where Plinkett makes inaccurate ones - mosty DUE to seeing through his mistakes.
So a considerable portion of these videos could be valid for all I know - they certainly are whenever they agree with me, which is of course a general principle :mrgreen:
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Re: a new, better and The Reasonable refutation of the Plinkus reviews... maybe?

Post by Channel72 »

lGrand Anhoop wrote:Even when they're "factually accurate"?
What is all this talk about "factual accuracy"? Most of these reviews talk about dramatic or story-telling problems, how characters are boring and the villains are meaningless, or whatever. The closest thing to something that might be "a statement of fact" would be the various complaints about how certain plot mechanics are unclear, particularly in TPM. But even that's pretty subjective, because the intent there is more a complaint about how the plot is presented via the writing, rather than whether there's actually an underlying logic that can be teased out upon close examination. I mean, claiming that something is "unclear" is essentially just an opinion - and that's a large part of what the RLM criticisms about TPM amounted to.

Anyway, we used to argue about that shit endlessly on this board. It would go on for ever in circles, until Darth Wong's hard drive ran out of disk space, causing a major temporal disruption in the Multi-verse. Eventually, an uneasy truce was reached betwixt the rival Internet warriors, but not until the rectification of the Vuldronaii would the prophecy be fulfilled.
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Re: a new, better and The Reasonable refutation of the Plinkus reviews... maybe?

Post by lGrand Anhoop »

Pfft - anything that isn't "I had a feeeeeeling, cause I had a fffeeeeeeling, I can't quite explain!" can be treated as a factual statement - or fuck, ditch "factual" cause that sounds fucking pretentious, and make it "contestable".

Even something like stating a particular line is delivered in a wooden manner, rather than a boring manner, or a bored manner, can be contested - and revealed as lacking observation / lack of attention / projection of other scenes onto this one / bandwagon thinking... hence wrong, by any reasonable standard.
Of course, the impression can also be shown as a genuine reflection of how their brain reacts to that particular delivery, so there are different ways such a clash can be resolved.


Then you mention "storytelling", well... let's say the claim is that a given character has no refusal of the call, while he has. So that's not a factual statement, but storytelling?



A femous thinker once said: "there's light and atoms, everything else is opinion". Yeah well I say "I wasn't interested in that 50s diner" is an opinion - everything else is fact.
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Re: a new, better and The Reasonable refutation of the Plinkus reviews... maybe?

Post by lGrand Anhoop »

Galvatron wrote:While you're at it, refute these. They're the OTHER most viewed videos about TPM on YouTube. Go ahead, tell us all why they're "inaccurate" for jeering at that cinematic piece of shit.



Alright, these two seem pretty facetious and lack substance - I picked RLM as a target for a reason, you know.
So, what, I'm supposed to take their jokes / throwaway comments at face value and address them somehow? Foine, whatever.

This is basically just preaching to the choir:
1) The idea that the "bureaucratic conversation" are forgettable, or their presence alone a self-evident mistake, is treated as a given.
2) More on "robotic voice" below.
3) That standing in circles or standing in councils is another self-evident misfire, even though it's a familiar archetypal portrayal of aristocracy and clergy which is of course the whole premise.
4) I'm not even gonna humour the "racism" nonsense - at best he's making a tired joke in a boring fashion, at worst he's got worse problems to sort out than having potentially flawed opinions about a movie.

0) I don't really consider I-III "Star Wars", and any arguments including a leap from that to "poor quality" are gonna be discarded, by me.

1) What makes the "gradual suspense opening" of EpI different from The Matrix? One of many bandwagon memes that immediately start looking silly once you question them - I mean, an atmospheric mystery opening with some build-up is obviously wrong because 1/3 original Star Wars movies opened with an action shot... oh wait. Nvm. :D :D

2) Jadis from the BBC Narnia movies also had a low, thick voice - appears to be some kind of archetype, as in both cases a theatralic image of larger-than-life authority is being conveyed.
Why not have her talk like a 14 year old girl? Well for one her age is never specified, but he's ignoring the obvious fact that the Queen and her entire court were supposed to evoke a stylized high fantasy image of royalty, and later it becomes obvious that it's some kind of Naboo tradition and they're putting on this act in-universe.
Things like them keeping up this act even inside the escape ship, or the lack of digging further into Naboo's culture to avoid making it "weird and random", are all things that can be accepted or criticized, but he doesn't do that, and instead just wonders why high fantasy royalty isn't talking like his baseball pals in a bar, which is stupid.

3) This is just part of the larger problem in I-III, namely that a coherent picture of all these background machinations is never drawn, and in fact seems to get rewritten for every movie - so I sets up some kind of revelation for what exactly was going on there, but then II ditches that for the Separatist and makes up its own mystery plot which then gets dropped in III in order to focus on the personal character arcs - however, an Order 66 ploy is conjured up out of nowhere that probably should've been set up in some earlier film.
Finding contradictions where there SIMPLY ISN'T ENOUGH INFORMATION, is stupid - however, this point in particular is particularly stupid, because if she signed the treaty and escaped she still would've tried to convince the Senate, and they'd still be "skeptical" except now even moreso, and nothing indicates events would've developed any differently.
The actual valid question is what he was planning to do with her staying on the planet - him counting on the Jedi to rescue her is plausible, but speculation and irrelevant in the larger context of Palpatine's plan being way too vague.

That, however, isn't a particularly major issue in terms of impact on the film's quality.

4) Citation for "just to sell action figures" needed - repeating this to each other all the time don't make it true.
Why would a "kinda cool" action sequence get included in the movie, if not to sell toys, or to try to be really cool in the movie? Oh wait.

5) I'd like more arguments please - if, that is, the assertion that the "god mode" becomes boring after 3 fight scenes (second two in short succession and arranged in a structure) is supposed to be somehow persuasive and not just making like-minded people nod.

6) Point of Tattoine is the podrace and nothing else? No arguments given in support, and I've got plenty in opposition.

7a) And then they get to Corusaaaaaant, and it's tho boreeeeeng, cause, laike,... oh wait, it's that "self-evident" thing again, isn't it.
Of course, what you've got there is a bunch of calm scenes with dialogue and discussions, and that itself can either be done in a compelling way, or a boring way - and while you've got intrigue and atmosphere arguing for the former, there seems to be nothing arguing for the latter. HMM.

7b) It's as "pseudo-political" as LOTR is pseudo-GoT.
Am I supposed to address this laughable genre deafness, or is it unnecessary? This is simplified high fantasy court dialogue redressed in "modern" politics, the plot is basically that Nicole Carapathia is taking over.
All the political dialogue has dramatic significance, and never gets boggled down in "pointless" worldbuilding or pretentious/nerdy details.

8 ) The duel didn't end well? He's confusing it with ROTS I think.

5:05 Oh no a gloating taunting villain doesn't do something "logical". And adults want real politics. :roll:

8a) So a climactic finisher after the lowest point = a lot like an anticlimactic gag death? Whatever dude.

9) And, cause, like, burning corpses is weeeeeeird, and how could Luke have ever thought of thaaaaaaat :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


10) 7:10 Guess you spoke too soon.


Anyway, those two were a waste of time.
On to the (more) interesting half then...
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Re: a new, better and The Reasonable refutation of the Plinkus reviews... maybe?

Post by Rogue 9 »

Prometheus Unbound wrote:
lGrand Anhoop wrote:RLM's EpI-III reviews are almost complete bunk, and I've got a whole list of arguments to back that up..
Yeah but he's funny and creative - so he has fans. Rebutting them like that weirdo did with 120 pages is both sad and pathetic. Because no one. And I mean no one gives a shit. Not on that level.
He's profoundly unfunny, and also a goddamned liar, so I guess if you consider lies creative...

Also, if one is to rebut his annoyingly narrated lies, exactly how long would you expect that rebuttal to be, in light of the fact that he drones on for over an hour each time?
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Re: a new, better and The Reasonable refutation of the Plinkus reviews... maybe?

Post by lGrand Anhoop »

Galvatron wrote:
0) 1:10 Strictly speaking, this shouldn't undermine his credibility. Or maybe it should.

1) 4:05 It begins here, and here's the thing: I couldn't care less about some youtube guy sharing his opinion about how "omg we all realize there shouldn't be politics, especially backhanded politics, right?" - it's only with the added pretense (both from inside and outside) of RLM, and their attempt at substance, that it becomes interesting to say... that you might wanna elaborate cause blank statements are no fun.

Let's look at what he lists there, and compare it to what he's showing / the reality of the film:
"political squabbling" = greedy merchant / ambitious viceroy conspiring with the evil sorcerer
"trade negotiations" = never took place
"treaty signings" = bad guy takes over and tries to get good guy to sign something to legitimize his authority... hasn't this been done like over and over in fatnasy / children's movies? It's all quite simplistic, and only comprises the background which is mentioned a couple times.

As you can see, we never left the area of escapist fantasy.
This is fairytale court intrigue in a "politcal" dressing, just like Star Wars is fantasy in SF dressing.



9:00-9:05 It's not to sign a paper, it's to vote against the current power, except not vote but hold a dramatic speech. When you've considered all those crucial narrative factors, then you can go compare this to ROTJ or what not.
But this frivolous bullshite amounts to nothing at all.



2) He appears to be exaggerating the lack of set building - whole palace, real desert, tall, buit house exteriors on Tattoine, real slave apartment (lol), fully built Coruscant interiors with bluescreen windows... were the performances better in those scenes than in the "bluescreen scenes"?

Sometimes - the "now go on board" scene was all bluescreen background, and is probably the most phoned-in Neeson ever gets.
Then again, Pernilla August is wooden in the dinner scene and expressive in the outdoors scene - both filmed in real environments. So why the difference the difference then?
Why did Amidal act wooden in her first scene with Palpatine, shot in a real room, but emotional and agitated in the senate scene where obviously less stuff was actually there?
Something doesn't quite fit here.


2a) 5:00 Oh, you challenge me. How cute.
Compare the way he says it with the way they say it in the movie, and the difference becomes schlagartig clear.

5:25 No don't tell me what I can tell - what you're talking about is some alternate version of the film that only exists inside your head.

5:30 Wasn't that the joke? That Jar Jar gets panicky while the Jedi've been through all that already? "There's always a bigger fish i guess."

5:40 So we've got one Jedi who makes all the decisions and drives the plot for the entire first half of the movie and stays invested and in focus all the way through Coruscant and pretty much afterwards as well... and we've got another who just makes quips, disagrees a couple times and isn't given any drive or focus until the duel?
I challenge you to tell me which is which, cause you CAN'T! Oh wait...

See what I'm talking about? See what it takes them to maintain this bull***t?


5:55-6:02 Now if you're just gonna ape Plinkus to such a degree of detail I'm gonna dismiss you as a drone and move on to the source you're cribbing from, thanks.

6:10 Those shifty eyes... they could be interpreted as almost mischievous. Hmm... does Qui-Gon act mischievous anywhere in the movie, perhaps? Or only stern? I'll let you figure out the rest.



2b)
6:50 Pretty sure those "ships" were miniatures.

7:10 I'm not particularly interested in sticking up for the Gungan battle there, but while he's talking about no structure the frame shows an organized droid army and a disorganized Gungan mass; the frame itself seems to be composed with proportions and aesthetics in mind.
And it's the worst action scene in the film... hmm.
What about that whole build-up before the slapstick battle starts, do those shots also lack "structure"?


7:25 "Real things in existence" will always maintain their photorealism (lighting issues in composite shots aside), but that's where the guarantees end - they can still easily end up looking like models, or like puppets, and especially in the latter case it might be more jarring than a CG creature with less photorealism but more flexible movement.






2c) Now those battle droids have lots of mannerisms for being "lifeless", and that's not counting their humorous dialogue.


3) No tension :roll:
Well if you wanna see like 20 times more "no tension", go yawn through a Hill&Spencer flick then.

It's not always about "tension" - gleeful exhiliration (with tense build-up, in this case), is an equally valid and entertaining form of... entertainment.


"But at least" - no, them being bad shots was part of the fun and appeal; it was a mixture of camp comedy, tension and upbeat adventure.

7:55-8:15 :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
Just on the brink of self-awareness... just hasn't made that final step yet. Now that I've laid out the pieces for you, watch him stumble through the simplistic mental framework.


4) 9:40 Anyone reminded of Dead Poets Society here? "He's badass, he's mysterious, but he should say more things."
Of course...
Image



5) 11:08 ...
...
Nope. Not gonna bite.

Obtuse obtuseness is obtuse.
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Re: a new, better and The Reasonable refutation of the Plinkus reviews... maybe?

Post by lGrand Anhoop »

6) So... it never bothered him until he turned his brain on and started counting the shots? Who else sees a major problem hiding there?

Apparently this is like the reverse of TDK - while there, someone made a video showing a lack of spatial orientation in that car chase and people said it was supposed to feel disorienting, now someone's counted the left-to-right shots that never bothered him, and someone might bring up that they're flying in a huge circle that only spins in one direction... wow.

Now of course what's left is doing the hard work of actually analyzing the rhythm and structure there, "on micro and macro levels", and see if those similar shots get repetitive or are arranged like riffs... judging by how it never bothered him, the default assumption might just be the latter :o


7) 13:00 No... Chris... when you actually watch the movie you'll see that they reject him because they sense a danger, and too old just comes off as an excuse / complementary reason like in V.



7a) 13:30-13:00 Because the somber, contemplative part of the movie just PRECEDING the fast-paced adventurous action finale is supposed to be judged as upbeat adventure? Get the fuck outta here Chris.

13:35-13:40 Really, cause for a second there I thought you were talking about the Naboo scenes that at least have jarring childish scenes interfering with the flow.
But Coruscant is nothing BUT flow, you see there's a structure in the...

oh wait, did he mean it's a sequence as opposed to an "act", because a sequence is a giant thing and an act is not? I've no idea what he's even talking about.


13:55-14:20 OH JESUS CHRIST SHUT THE FACK UP YOU PLAGIARIZING TONE DEAF VAPID PRETENTIOUS KNOB PENIS.
I can go into detail there, oh believe me I can, but :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

..........

...............

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:


8 ) No it's not made for kids, there's a tonal dissonance betwen childish stuff and "normal" stuff meant for older viewers - though it's suitable for kids too.


9) Superspeed (need to take "nightmare angle" of that part into account before going further), no "internal" conflict, child sized helmet, finally no trade disputes (for 2 hours now)... now where have I heard all those before...



17:20 Come over on BBS and I'll be happy to enlighten :D


What a load of utter shite.
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Re: a new, better and The Reasonable refutation of the Plinkus reviews... maybe?

Post by Prometheus Unbound »

Rogue 9 wrote:
Prometheus Unbound wrote:
lGrand Anhoop wrote:RLM's EpI-III reviews are almost complete bunk, and I've got a whole list of arguments to back that up..
Yeah but he's funny and creative - so he has fans. Rebutting them like that weirdo did with 120 pages is both sad and pathetic. Because no one. And I mean no one gives a shit. Not on that level.
He's profoundly unfunny, and also a goddamned liar, so I guess if you consider lies creative...
Well the funny is a matter of opinion. I will grant that many people are polarised by the voice and types of humour. They're right up my alley though, so I enjoy them. as do millions of others. But then millions of people watched Sex in the City 2, so that hardly means anything.

As for lying... he twists stuff, sure. That much is obvious. hires actors as "normal people" and so forth. But then they're there in the credits - he never makes out that this is 100% factual. He even says many times that this is just his opinion and he forgets things because he's over 100 years old.
Also, if one is to rebut his annoyingly narrated lies, exactly how long would you expect that rebuttal to be, in light of the fact that he drones on for over an hour each time?
that's the point; I wouldn't expect anyone to do so at all, because it's a) pointless and b) unbelievably sad.
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Also, shorten your signature a couple of lines please.
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Re: a new, better and The Reasonable refutation of the Plinkus reviews... maybe?

Post by Crazedwraith »

Prometheus Unbound wrote: that's the point; I wouldn't expect anyone to do so at all, because it's a) pointless and b) unbelievably sad.
I'm always astound at what geeks will look down on other geeks for. How is it more pointless or sad than any of the other countless pages of discussions here?
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Re: a new, better and The Reasonable refutation of the Plinkus reviews... maybe?

Post by Galvatron »

Crazedwraith wrote:
Prometheus Unbound wrote: that's the point; I wouldn't expect anyone to do so at all, because it's a) pointless and b) unbelievably sad.
I'm always astound at what geeks will look down on other geeks for. How is it more pointless or sad than any of the other countless pages of discussions here?
Effort. Our posts here are basically effortless, stream of consciousness discussions about minutia. That's a far cry from a dead serious 108-page monologue rebutting a tongue-in-cheek (albeit very long) movie review. I wonder how people would have reacted if the TPM review were more like his reaction to Prometheus.

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Re: a new, better and The Reasonable refutation of the Plinkus reviews... maybe?

Post by Prometheus Unbound »

Galvatron wrote:Effort.
Essentially.


And that Saxton guy. He's just as nutty. And Graham Kennedy. And Dark Star and Wong himself. Although Wong seems to have moved on from that and his need to discuss in intimate detail his sex life for no reason.

There are people out there who take this stuff way, way too seriously. Like, on a personal level. RLM did what they did and make lots of money and now run a very successful small media production house with incomes in the $200-300k a year scale. They make movies, shows, animations, commentaries and all sorts of content, for "free", for all of us.

Were their own reviews just as sad? Yes. But it was done comically and you can tell they like the source material. A bit like Auralnauts.

What Raynor did was... well, he took a film review and wrote 108 pages about why it's wrong. Because he was so. fucking. angry. that some people don't like star wars films that he just had to tell the entire fucking planet.

There is a big difference between RLM and Raynor, and Raynor and people like us who just post a few sentences every few days - just like billions of others who do so on facebook or twitter or instagram or snapchat or whatsapp. Normal people can at least relate to this.

Even hardcore star wars fans pause for thought at Raynor.

There is such a thing as being crazy. Harmless crazy, but still crazy.
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Also, shorten your signature a couple of lines please.
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Re: a new, better and The Reasonable refutation of the Plinkus reviews... maybe?

Post by lGrand Anhoop »

Galvatron wrote:While you're at it, refute these. They're the OTHER most viewed videos about TPM on YouTube. Go ahead, tell us all why they're "inaccurate" for jeering at that cinematic piece of shit.

0:50 I am sure ;)

1:55 And this is where I stop - it's a very good rewrite, but the further a rewrite strays away from the original, the less worth it has a piece of criticism.
It's somewhat amusing how he seems to think otherwise, how he presents his pitch as what an exec would do too "take what works and change what doesn't".

I've got ideas of my own that fulfill that function, he doesn't :)


2:05 It's amusing to me how similar the TPM opening is to the Matrix opening in general approach, yet people hold that as an example of great writing and this as some sort of misguided failure.
Let's get to know them first... don't immediately jump into action. lol.

2:35 But there already is banter between the two Jedi, isn't there? And between QG and Padme, isn't that right?
His rewrite isn't required to boost that element... boosting it would suffice.


3:25 Oh how cute - he took the Toydarian thing literally.

8:50 Yes, but in the movie Darth Maul is the first glimpse of what's to come, so plays an entirely different archetype and his death of course makes that more effective.



Anyway, this video deserves its spot among the fan rewrites, but doesn't do anything in the area of criticism.
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