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When Luke was in his X-Wing, about to fire using the computer, he hears a voice - "Use the force, Luke." Then the music builds up and they win the day.

Now it never occurred to me until now to question this but presumably that was *actual* obi-wan telling him, via magic force stuff. Rather than.. say, a memory of what he said or something. That was meant to be the actual Force of obi-wan telling him, right?


So this scene, from ROTS:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUbdKQjAmq0


It's the best scene from the PT as far as I'm concerned because it's simple, it's effective and it's brilliant. The music, the lighting and yes, even the acting. This is the only believable bit of the PT involving these two characters together. (I don't like sand. It's coarse and irritating. And it gets everywhere; Not like yo BLUUURRRGGGHHHHH).

Yet it's done very well. It's actually a very moving scene for me, in a cartoon movie about space robots with coughs.


But that Palpatine voiceover bit at the start. Is that Anakin remembering something Palpy said to him or is it possible that's actually Palpatine himself, getting in Anakin's head? Is this covered in the EU anywhere? I quite like that interpretation. It just occurred to me! I figured it was always him just going over his previous conversation in his own head and making a decision. Could this have been Palpatine, from afar, actually saying this to him as part of the ruse?

If Luke could send his voice to Leia, then Sidious could certainly send his voice to Anakin in that situation.

Yeah, the opera scene between Palpatine and Anakin is awesome. ROTS (and probably AOTC) needed more scenes like that, to drive home how seductive the dark side can be.

Yes, without a doubt Obi-Wan had guided Luke in ANH by telepathically communicating with him, as did Qui-Gon did with Anakin in AOTC. The scene in question with Sidious was designed to convey that Sidious was messaging Anakin through the Force.

This deleted scene right here if it is still valid and canon in spite of it not being included in the final version of the ROTJ shows that Force-Users of Darth Vader-level power can transmit telepathic messages across lightyears. Not too much of a far-fetched notion given that Force-Users can mentally follow and feel events happening from thousands of lightyears away.

I don't know it looks more like Anakin has kept a core memory of that conversation and is more haunted by it, its open to interpretation but I think Anakin was remembering what was being said to the point its starting to affect his rational.

it could be a bit collum "a" and a bit of collum "b", it could be that Anakin was remembering the conversation but Palpatine was sudtly "pushing" Anakin's mind towards a certain solution.

It is implied that Force ghosts (like Obi-Wan) have at least some powers living Force users lack. It seems that there must be some reason other than pure bluff that Obi-Wan said that if Vader struck him down, he would become more powerful than Vader could imagine.

Given that Palpatine normally relies on technological means to appear before Vader and communicate with him, I doubt that he could do so telepathically as easily or well as he could, say, place a phone call. I suspect Obi-Wan, as a disembodied ghost, has an advantage there.

Simon_Jester wrote:Given that Palpatine normally relies on technological means to appear before Vader and communicate with him, I doubt that he could do so telepathically as easily or well as he could, say, place a phone call.

Either that, or he might have wanted to hide that particular capability. They're Sith, remember, I think "serious trust issues" comes as part of the package deal.

Note that Simon didn't say he couldn't. Just that doing the Wars equivalent of a phone call would be easier.

Batman wrote:Note that Simon didn't say he couldn't. Just that doing the Wars equivalent of a phone call would be easier.

With technology there is less chance of something being lost in translation.

There is also the possibility of it being monitored/recorded/traced, while the "use the Force to talk in your head" method cannot be monitored or traced as far as we know. Plus, if it's Sidious putting thoughts/memories in his head, Anakin won't necessarily argue with him, which he might if Sidious straight up called him.

Lord Pounder wrote:

Batman wrote:Note that Simon didn't say he couldn't. Just that doing the Wars equivalent of a phone call would be easier.

With technology there is less chance of something being lost in translation.

Agreed. And there is also the chance that a telepathic communique may be 'intercepted' so to speak by other Force-Users. A secure hyperwave signal could guarantee a measure of greater privacy than broadcasting of one's thoughts freely across the Galaxy--especially in light of the fact that that particular conversation dealt with Force-sensitive issues of a high-security nature.

This is non-canon now, but in the old EU Mara Jade was (said to be) special, because unlike others she could telephatically communicate with Palpatine everywhere in the galaxy. Now, she could just have been exaggerating her own importance/uniqness (wouldn't be the first time) or Palpatine - as long as he has a body - needs to use the phone for long-distance-calls.

FTeik wrote:This is non-canon now, but in the old EU Mara Jade was (said to be) special, because unlike others she could telephatically communicate with Palpatine everywhere in the galaxy. Now, she could just have been exaggerating her own importance/uniqness (wouldn't be the first time) or Palpatine - as long as he has a body - needs to use the phone for long-distance-calls.

Yeah, even if that were still canon, I reckon that Mara had been overinflating her importance to Palpatine.

While I do believe that Palaptine may be able to communicate with his underlings from far away portions of the Galaxy through feelings and limited commands (he does seem to be able to sense feelings and events like on Coruscant from Mustafar, implying he may be able to transmit just like receive), I am not confident that it is as perfect a way of communicating as simply firing up a hyperwave transmitter and specifically stating what he desires to be done.

Back to the original thread topic...Palpatine most likely did link up with Anakin's mind. Although another explanation which would still be plausible is that the Dark Side itself may have been tempting him to a certain course of action.... Or perhaps Anakin's is just batship insane LOL.

SpottedKitty wrote:

Simon_Jester wrote:Given that Palpatine normally relies on technological means to appear before Vader and communicate with him, I doubt that he could do so telepathically as easily or well as he could, say, place a phone call.

Either that, or he might have wanted to hide that particular capability. They're Sith, remember, I think "serious trust issues" comes as part of the package deal.

But the only way to hide the use of such telepathic abilities from Vader himself would be to never use it on Vader or anyone Vader might talk to (i.e. anybody, really).

In which case no, Palpatine did not talk to Anakin in his head, at least not in the sense of sending him any comprehensible, recognizable messages the way Obi-Wan did for Luke.

I think it more likely that Palpatine does have the ability to communicate telepathically with Vader (and perhaps other Force users) at galactic distances, but finds it difficult and burdensome to do so compared to using conventional communications.

The old EU indicated that this ability was part of the Master-Padawan bond among Jedi. Though we never see it used with Obi-Wan and Anakin, even at several points where it could have been useful(like AOTC before Anakin and Padme recklessly went to Geonosis). That would have been a great time for Obi-Wan to tell him not to come.

Though it is possible that the lack of this usage in the PT is based on the growing presence of the Dark Side. Notice that only Yoda was able to sense even Order 66. Obi-Wan never seemed to notice it at all. He only realized what had occurred after Bail Organa told him.

The only canon example of living Force users with this ability was Luke and Leia. In any case, it was more that she sensed his presence than that he passed a significant message.

There is Vader as well in Empire Strikes Back on board the Executor begging Luke to join him against the Emperor.

Boeing 757 wrote:There is Vader as well in Empire Strikes Back on board the Executor begging Luke to join him against the Emperor.

Note though that that seemed to stop once the Falcon went to hyperdrive; they were at least in the same system and Vader's ships were in close pursuit, so they weren't particularly far apart. It's not really in the same league IMO.

My take has always been that the actual words are for the viewer and the message conveyed has been one of feeling and presence.
EX: We hear "Use the Force Luke, let go." while Luke feels a wave of righteousness and more understands what to do than is actually told.

However, the way Luke taps on his helmet like his comm system is picking up a voice pretty much kills that and confirms he is hearing actual words.

Now, in the scene in question, which is indeed the best acted scene between those two in the prequels and saves their relationship for me, it's safe to say, now that Palpatine has revealed himself, that he is indeed speaking what we hear directly to Anakin. There is no more reason to be around the bush. It's either be killed by Mace or be saved by Anakin.