Glad I waited for the reviews on Aftermath

[Adam Reynolds]

It has only 2.2 stars on Amazon. Apparently the prose is awful. This is what happens when one writes a book in 45 days.

Looks like I'll be staying a film purist in the new continuity.

[RogueIce]

Meet the new EU, same as the old EU.

Basically: a few gems here and there, but mostly mediocre to downright terrible.

[Adam Reynolds]

Meet the new EU, same as the old EU.

Basically: a few gems here and there, but mostly mediocre to downright terrible.

That would be it in a nutshell. It is sad they had such new ground to tread and they ended up writing books that are occasionally worse than the old EU.

Though regardless of quality, there is no getting around a worse issue. The fundamental problem with the SW EU is that it is guilty of explaining details that shouldn't be. One of the best parts of Star Wars as a setting is that there is a sense of depth to it. When we see Han Solo, we know he has done interesting things in his past. The whole idea of ANH was that it was episode 4, it was jumping us in to the middle of the story.

Apparently C3PO has a new red arm in the new movie. Now there is a new comic book that explains just how he got it. It can't just be a piece of scenery.

[Nephtys]

EUs are always awful when they exist solely to fill in an utterly unnecessary---and ultimately inconsequential gap.

Did we really need to understand the life story of Porkins, the only Fat X-Wing Pilot? Or that A-Wing suicide crasher guy? Or pretty much anything about all of the TESB Bounty Hunters, who each get multiple storylines? Or hell, the life and times of every single person in that Death Star conference room?

Another EU example is Dune. Brian Herbert and KJA wrote 3 mediocre (though mostly readable) prequels, 3 TERRIBLE pre-prequels, 2 (3?) TERRIBLE sequels/conclusions and 1 godawful book apparently about literally what Paul's Mom was doing during the events of prior dune books. None of it was remotely necessary.

[The Romulan Republic]

EUs are always awful when they exist solely to fill in an utterly unnecessary---and ultimately inconsequential gap.

Did we really need to understand the life story of Porkins, the only Fat X-Wing Pilot? Or that A-Wing suicide crasher guy? Or pretty much anything about all of the TESB Bounty Hunters, who each get multiple storylines? Or hell, the life and times of every single person in that Death Star conference room?

Any of those subjects could make a good story, provided whoever writes the story is competent and gives a fuck and isn't subjected to a lot of interference from creatively lacking executives.

In other words, things any work of fiction requires.

Another EU example is Dune. Brian Herbert and KJA wrote 3 mediocre (though mostly readable) prequels, 3 TERRIBLE pre-prequels, 2 (3?) TERRIBLE sequels/conclusions and 1 godawful book apparently about literally what Paul's Mom was doing during the events of prior dune books. None of it was remotely necessary.

Define "necessary". Nothing in a fictional work is strictly speaking necessary. If you're talking about things that develop the basic plot/themes, well, you could probably condense the films considerably by that measure.

And things that are "unnecessary" can still add to the depth, complexity, and tone of a story.

[Adam Reynolds]

Define "necessary". Nothing in a fictional work is strictly speaking necessary. If you're talking about things that develop the basic plot/themes, well, you could probably condense the films considerably by that measure.

And things that are "unnecessary" can still add to the depth, complexity, and tone of a story.

It is true that they could possibly add to the story but in this case the opposite actually occurs. When we hear about the Kessel Run and Han Solo's boasting, it gives an idea of the wider universe that leaves it up to the imagination to fill in. The same is true when we see the bounty hunters in ESB. What made Boba Fett intriguing was that he was effective and mysterious*. When Palpatine indirectly boasts about how he was clever enough to kill Plagueis in a single scene, it does a better job of conveying his character than an entire novel covering the same story. Leaving something of a sense of mystery to the backstory of characters makes them stronger rather than weaker.

* Though personally I never really understood the hype.

The parts of the EU that I have enjoyed the most didn't fill in backstory, they simply told new stories. The two main ones that I enjoyed the most recently were the Wraith Squadron trilogy and the Darth Bane trilogy. Both of those works gave completely different takes on the SW universe than the films. Wraith Squadron was a rather sarcastic take on mil-SF while the Darth Bane trilogy was told almost exclusively from the perspective of Sith Lords. Neither of these really attempted to tell anything directly related to the films.

And the same is true with Timothy Zahn's novels. When he wrote Heir to the Empire, he simply told a new story in the SW galaxy. Or with KOTOR, which was widely enjoyed for giving a different take on SW, with characters that had nothing to do with the era of the films.

[Ziggy Stardust]

EUs are always awful when they exist solely to fill in an utterly unnecessary---and ultimately inconsequential gap.

I agree with you in general, though I do feel in the case of "Aftermath," the gap ISN'T unnecessary/inconsequential. I mean, it is pretty important for the new canon to establish a general framework for what happened between ROTJ and The Force Awakens, as that is really where the bulk of the changes to the canon are taking place (presumably, even though the pre-ROTJ EU has been declared non-canon, I would guess that they aren't going to spend much time going back and refilling that time period with new stories, focusing instead on primarily the post-ROTJ universe).

So I understand the need to make some effort to fill in that specific gap, because it is what is going to set the tone for the new canon. That said, the BETTER way to handle it wouldn't be to rush out a mediocre book; you either fill that gap implicitly with dialogue and background in the movies, to make it clear what happened without directly showing it, or if you must make it a separate entity, don't rush it like they apparently did.

When Palpatine indirectly boasts about how he was clever enough to kill Plagueis in a single scene, it does a better job of conveying his character than an entire novel covering the same story. Leaving something of a sense of mystery to the backstory of characters makes them stronger rather than weaker.

Indeed; that scene with Palpatine is my favorite of the entire prequels. The dialogue, acting, pacing, and cinematography for that scene was really exceptionally well done.

[lPeregrine]

Any of those subjects could make a good story, provided whoever writes the story is competent and gives a fuck and isn't subjected to a lot of interference from creatively lacking executives.

In other words, things any work of fiction requires.

It isn't just about competent writing, though that certainly hasn't helped the EU (and licensed books in other franchises). There's a fundamental problem with the material an author has to work with: you have to make an irrelevant background detail interesting enough to get a whole story out of it. Take Porkins for example: is there any reason to believe that he's anything but a generic fighter pilot character? Sure, he has a background story where he learns to fly, joins the rebellion, and maybe even gets into some interesting battles. But is that really enough to write a whole book about him? Probably not. So now you have to build him up into a proper hero and invent a whole bunch of stuff that isn't even hinted at on-screen. And, if you're an EU author, you probably can't stop at having him fight in some generic-but-exciting space battles, he has to be involved in Major Plot Events. He didn't just participate in a convoy raid of significant military value, the freighter was carrying secret jedi spies who loaded a copy of the death star plans into Porkins' droid! He didn't die because he was too stubborn to eject in time, he heroically sacrificed himself to distract Death Star Gunner #48192 (who is secretly a dark jedi) from shooting at Luke because his secret jedi parents gave him a vision of the future where Luke saves the rebellion! Etc.

Now, this is ok as long as you don't do it too often and try to keep a sense of perspective about the whole thing. But when you have to keep milking the cash cow it reaches the point of absurdity where every single background character in every movie scene is just as interesting as the main characters, and nobody is just a random guy who shows up, does his job, and goes home with his paycheck. And Tatooine goes from being a middle-of-nowhere rock that nobody cares about to the center of galactic civilization where a random spaceport bar is simultaneously host to dozens of separate heroic adventures.

The EU could have avoided this problem by creating new stories that happened entirely off-screen, but I guess that wouldn't have properly milked the cash cow of the "Star Wars" brand and let the fanboys obsess over every tiny detail of their favorite scenes. And so the result was almost guaranteed to suck.

[Adam Reynolds]

I agree with you in general, though I do feel in the case of "Aftermath," the gap ISN'T unnecessary/inconsequential. I mean, it is pretty important for the new canon to establish a general framework for what happened between ROTJ and The Force Awakens, as that is really where the bulk of the changes to the canon are taking place (presumably, even though the pre-ROTJ EU has been declared non-canon, I would guess that they aren't going to spend much time going back and refilling that time period with new stories, focusing instead on primarily the post-ROTJ universe).

It is true that this is where the changes are, but it is not necessarily that important to tell what goes on then. How important is it to know what goes on between ROTS and ANH?

So I understand the need to make some effort to fill in that specific gap, because it is what is going to set the tone for the new canon. That said, the BETTER way to handle it wouldn't be to rush out a mediocre book; you either fill that gap implicitly with dialogue and background in the movies, to make it clear what happened without directly showing it, or if you must make it a separate entity, don't rush it like they apparently did.

In any case, I'm sure they will do this. They are going to assume that the majority of their intended audience wouldn't read the books. Lucas didn't assume that the audience that saw ROTS read Labyrinth of Evil(though that book was extremely good by comparison, I preferred its depiction of those events to Clone Wars attempts to cover similar ground).

Indeed; that scene with Palpatine is my favorite of the entire prequels. The dialogue, acting, pacing, and cinematography for that scene was really exceptionally well done.

Part of what made it so effective was that it gave minimal information. Just enough to keep you guessing.

Not to mention that the Darth Plagueis novel made the pointless decesion to have Palpatine kill Plagueis during the events of TPM. Thus Maul was never a proper Sith Lord and Yoda comment about "Only two, there are." was just bullshit. That story would have worked better if it were Palpatine's machinations in the prequel era with flashbacks to how he killed Plagueis and set himself on his current path.

It isn't just about competent writing, though that certainly hasn't helped the EU (and licensed books in other franchises). There's a fundamental problem with the material an author has to work with: you have to make an irrelevant background detail interesting enough to get a whole story out of it. Take Porkins for example: is there any reason to believe that he's anything but a generic fighter pilot character? Sure, he has a background story where he learns to fly, joins the rebellion, and maybe even gets into some interesting battles. But is that really enough to write a whole book about him? Probably not. So now you have to build him up into a proper hero and invent a whole bunch of stuff that isn't even hinted at on-screen.

Porkins at least has a role in a major battle. A worse example is random guy on Bespin #6 or random woman on Tatooine #3 being high level Rebel operatives. Those came from the trading card game. In fairness none of those stories were major works in the EU.

A worse idea is when authors try and create stories that expand on the events of the films and show things from a different perspective. See the IG-88 mess involving the second Death Star.

Now, this is ok as long as you don't do it too often and try to keep a sense of perspective about the whole thing. But when you have to keep milking the cash cow it reaches the point of absurdity where every single background character in every movie scene is just as interesting as the main characters, and nobody is just a random guy who shows up, does his job, and goes home with his paycheck. And Tatooine goes from being a middle-of-nowhere rock that nobody cares about to the center of galactic civilization where a random spaceport bar is simultaneously host to dozens of separate heroic adventures.

What this comes down to is Mike Wong's concept of a brain bug. When you have an EU, by definition it is created by numerous individuals not really working together. So it is inevitable that it becomes a mess of storytelling.

Tatooine is by far one of the worst examples, as is the idea of Jabba being a galactic figure. Qui-Gon states that the Hutts rule Tatooine, not that Jabba himself does. Why would a high level figure in the Hutt clans be on Tatooine? That would be like a high ranking member of the mafia being assigned to Nebraska.

The EU could have avoided this problem by creating new stories that happened entirely off-screen, but I guess that wouldn't have properly milked the cash cow of the "Star Wars" brand and let the fanboys obsess over every tiny detail of their favorite scenes. And so the result was almost guaranteed to suck.

Agreed completely. If you look at the best of the EU, this is exactly what they did. Clone Wars was generally somewhat well liked. It was nothing but an adventure serial set in SW. Many of the worst episodes are those that try and fill in backstory. Like the Order 66 arc or the Sifo-Dyas arc.

[lPeregrine]

Porkins at least has a role in a major battle. A worse example is random guy on Bespin #6 or random woman on Tatooine #3 being high level Rebel operatives. Those came from the trading card game. In fairness none of those stories were major works in the EU.

Also those card descriptions are less about bad storytelling and more about the cost of game production. The game needs that high-level rebel operative, and the developer already made the commitment to use photographs instead of painted art for everything. So do you pay money for sets/costumes/etc just to make one random card that hardly anyone will pay attention to, or do you take a random shot from the movie and say "good enough". It's a much bigger issue when an author, free of those financial constraints, does that kind of thing.

As for Porkins, my objection is less about him specifically and more that there's a quota for how many interesting people there can be. The simple fact is that in a "real" x-wing squadron most of those pilots probably won't be very interesting characters. So, Luke being interesting? Of course, he's the main character of the story. Wedge being interesting? Ok, he did survive all three movies and earn a leadership role, so maybe his story could be worth telling. Porkins? Now we're starting to push it, making a novel-worthy story for a guy who most people only know as "the fat guy who died". Every single other pilot in the squadron getting their own elaborate stories? That's well past the point of absurdity.

The problem with the EU is that they just couldn't stop at making some of the minor characters have interesting stories, they had to keep filling in character after character until nobody is left for the "boring background scenery" role.

A worse idea is when authors try and create stories that expand on the events of the films and show things from a different perspective. See the IG-88 mess involving the second Death Star.

Well, to be fair, the problem with that story isn't that it explains IG-88, it's that IG-88 taking over the death star is a really stupid idea. Which I guess is the other part of the problem with the EU: not only does every single part of the cash cow have to be milked, way too much of the milking was done with really bad ideas that wouldn't be very interesting no matter who the characters are.

What this comes down to is Mike Wong's concept of a brain bug. When you have an EU, by definition it is created by numerous individuals not really working together. So it is inevitable that it becomes a mess of storytelling.

I don't think it's really inevitable, it just requires oversight and willingness to say "ok, that story is over" instead of milking the cash cow until even the most dedicated fanboys stop buying. And you need to understand that telling a good Star Wars story is about more than checking off a list of locations and characters you have to include. Have the courage and creativity to set your story on one of the countless unmentioned planets in the Star Wars setting, don't keep including a scene on Tatooine/Hoth/etc just because you're afraid that people won't think it's a Star Wars story unless you complete the checklist.

Tatooine is by far one of the worst examples, as is the idea of Jabba being a galactic figure. Qui-Gon states that the Hutts rule Tatooine, not that Jabba himself does. Why would a high level figure in the Hutt clans be on Tatooine? That would be like a high ranking member of the mafia being assigned to Nebraska.

I think this goes back to the quota issue. Making Jabba important is probably ok, Tatooine is the middle of nowhere but it's also far from any police for the hutts to worry about so maybe it's a decent hub for criminal operations. The problem really happened when they couldn't just leave it at that, and had to make everyone and everything else on Tatooine also important.

[Nephtys]

IG-88 taking over the Death Star and living in it's computer is a perfect example of 'utterly inconsequential'. Wow, what a substantial and crazy event! This unmoving droid, who we saw on screen only for a moment in the background as an inanimate collection of plumbing supplies (presumably daydreaming about playing basketball or whatever), in the same room as a half dozen weirdo bounty hunters, ends up trying to create some sort of Skynet-esque machine rebellion and maneuvers himself to possess the greatest weapon ever built!

...two seconds later, Lando and Wedge blow the station up and it doesn't bloody matter.

So why even bother with such a story? It had no impact on the material that it's using as a foundation! Why then isn't it about IG-88 taking over like, a Star Destroyer somewhere and intending to use it to conquer a small outer rim robot empire, when brave Imperial Stormtrooper WTF-21 defeats him with some interesting intrigue?

Worse yet on that 'brain bug' aspect of things, it affects all the characters who appear as bit parts. Ackbar is known for his waryness to ambush. Mon Mothma makes grave pronouncements. That A-Wing dude is apparently a particularly daredevil pilot. The white C3-PO model droid that appears here and there is a strategic genius droid because he was standing in the rebel command room on a few scenes. Imperials are sexist, racists because we only saw white british guys. Jabba is the best crimelord ever because he's the ONLY crimelord we saw (who apparently is still massively irked at a single shipment being off?)

Etc.

[The Romulan Republic]

Any of those subjects could make a good story, provided whoever writes the story is competent and gives a fuck and isn't subjected to a lot of interference from creatively lacking executives.

In other words, things any work of fiction requires.

It isn't just about competent writing, though that certainly hasn't helped the EU (and licensed books in other franchises). There's a fundamental problem with the material an author has to work with: you have to make an irrelevant background detail interesting enough to get a whole story out of it. Take Porkins for example: is there any reason to believe that he's anything but a generic fighter pilot character? Sure, he has a background story where he learns to fly, joins the rebellion, and maybe even gets into some interesting battles. But is that really enough to write a whole book about him? Probably not. So now you have to build him up into a proper hero and invent a whole bunch of stuff that isn't even hinted at on-screen. And, if you're an EU author, you probably can't stop at having him fight in some generic-but-exciting space battles, he has to be involved in Major Plot Events. He didn't just participate in a convoy raid of significant military value, the freighter was carrying secret jedi spies who loaded a copy of the death star plans into Porkins' droid! He didn't die because he was too stubborn to eject in time, he heroically sacrificed himself to distract Death Star Gunner #48192 (who is secretly a dark jedi) from shooting at Luke because his secret jedi parents gave him a vision of the future where Luke saves the rebellion! Etc.

Now, this is ok as long as you don't do it too often and try to keep a sense of perspective about the whole thing. But when you have to keep milking the cash cow it reaches the point of absurdity where every single background character in every movie scene is just as interesting as the main characters, and nobody is just a random guy who shows up, does his job, and goes home with his paycheck. And Tatooine goes from being a middle-of-nowhere rock that nobody cares about to the center of galactic civilization where a random spaceport bar is simultaneously host to dozens of separate heroic adventures.

The EU could have avoided this problem by creating new stories that happened entirely off-screen, but I guess that wouldn't have properly milked the cash cow of the "Star Wars" brand and let the fanboys obsess over every tiny detail of their favorite scenes. And so the result was almost guaranteed to suck.

You don't have to turn a character into some overdone hero who rivals Luke Skywalker to make them interesting. A lot of books have been written about a less interesting subject that a star fighter pilot. An ordinary person's life, told well, can be interesting.

If authors insist on making everyone an over the top pivitol figure of galactic history, that's the fault of the author for having no restraint and perhaps letting their ego interfere, not the fault of the subject matter.

Edits: Nor is this problem limited to EU works. Steven Moffat, head writer of Doctor Who, is a great example of this. It seems that he pretty much can't just write a new character of any significance without making them a super bad ass with a special destiny who saves the universe and is in love with the Doctor. The point being, its the author, not the subject matter.

[RogueIce]

Look, sometimes a guy running by with an ice cream machine is just a guy with an ice cream machine.

The issue with the Star Wars EU isn't world-building, it's that by and large it is shit world-building. Having to have a backstory for every fucking extra in the films is rather stupid and lame, yes. But when they go on to make them some kind of Secret Rebel Agent with Valuable Intelligence or a hidden Jedi or some stupid shit, that just makes it worse.

Really, it's a two-fold issue:

1) Re-treading the films. There's a whole fucking galaxy for your Expanded Universe to, well, expand upon. We don't need to keep going back to the same planets as the films and just reusing random background extras not even important enough to be in the credits.

2) Shit quality. This kind of speaks for itself, really. Stupid plots, stupid backgrounds, stupid a lot of things. At least if the stories were good I could stand reading "Eject! / No I Can Hold It: The Jek Porkins Story". But most of the SW EU, well, wasn't. Which just makes issue number 1 even worse.

[lPeregrine]

You don't have to turn a character into some overdone hero who rivals Luke Skywalker to make them interesting. A lot of books have been written about a less interesting subject that a star fighter pilot. An ordinary person's life, told well, can be interesting.

Yes, but those books don't tend to be in the epic space adventure genre. When you read or watch a story like Star Wars you expect to have characters like Luke. And that's fine, as long as you're free to give them their own space to live in. There's only a problem when your goal of milking every possible bit of the cash cow forces you to use every irrelevant on-screen background character for those stories. That's beyond the bad writing of individual authors, it's a fundamental problem with the IP owner's approach to the EU.

If authors insist on making everyone an over the top pivitol figure of galactic history, that's the fault of the author for having no restraint and perhaps letting their ego interfere, not the fault of the subject matter.

It's not all author ego because at least some of those over the top pivotal figures of galactic history would work just fine in another context, even in another part of Star Wars. It's marketing, not author ego, that forces the story to match some random background character visible for a few seconds in one scene of the movie. And it's marketing, not author ego, that puts all of those separate stories into the same checklist of locations so that a random spaceport bar on a middle of nowhere planet has dozens of over the top figures, each doing their separate pivotal galactic history stuff.

[Soontir C'boath]

You don't have to turn a character into some overdone hero who rivals Luke Skywalker to make them interesting. A lot of books have been written about a less interesting subject that a star fighter pilot. An ordinary person's life, told well, can be interesting.

Yes, but those books don't tend to be in the epic space adventure genre. When you read or watch a story like Star Wars you expect to have characters like Luke. And that's fine, as long as you're free to give them their own space to live in. There's only a problem when your goal of milking every possible bit of the cash cow forces you to use every irrelevant on-screen background character for those stories. That's beyond the bad writing of individual authors, it's a fundamental problem with the IP owner's approach to the EU.

Is there any reason to believe that such expectation is there to pigeon hole an entire universe into such a discreet category it can be written about? Frankly it seems more like the supermodel schitck wherein fashion magazines must have thin anorexic women on the cover to sell. And as it is just as harmful to women's perception of beauty, this idea that we must have some galaxy spanning antagonist or crisis to deal with has rather harmed the EU in its own significant way as well.

I agree with Romulan Republic. Not every story needs to be "epic" or be part of the overall arc to the storyline. It could just be like another murder case on Law & Order or a monster of the week on the X-Files, rather than part of some multi-episodic chase of a notorious suspect or search of the truth in the alien conspiracy, except they can be used to explore the universe in their own small way of the various societies, culture, etc in it.

One example comes to mind is Chris Boucher's Kaldor City which was featured on Doctor Who's Robots of Death and was significantly fleshed out considerably in the audio series without the Doctor at hand, and featured characters from Blake's 7 (Carnell and another one whom I won't mention).

[RogueIce]

I agree with Romulan Republic. Not every story needs to be "epic" or be part of the overall arc to the storyline.

You're pretty much preaching to the choir on this one. Unfortunately none of us make the decisions at LFL, and for better or worse LFL seems to tend to go with these sorts of stories in the EU. Which is one reason why it has a generally low regard around here.

[Patroklos]

I still thank the heavens that one of my favorite EU events, the mutiny, was largely unexpanded upon within the EU. Millions of warships destroyed in titanic battles larger than anything we have seen in the movies and books in messy civil war intrigues between my raid regional governors, sector admirals, revanchist Core worlds and grasping courtesans. Sectors and regions torn apart and laid bare in inter internecine struggles over and done with before any EU BS got there.

Thank you EU for considering most of this to be too boring to insert random dark Jedi whatsowhomever. or secret agent pureasthedrivensnow long lost relative to Sykywalkersomebody, and most of all some MyparentswerespacewizardsbutorphaPlusdiscoveredIamanacefighterpilotversion29482Z. All of that awesomess is safe in my imagination, restrained by the slightest hints between the lins of subpar pop scifi wank stories.

Speaking of Hutts, remember Darksaber anyone? REMEMBER!?!

[Balrog]

Reading through the book has been not entirely disappointing, but it does contain some of the very same 'brain bugs' people are decrying in this thread as having ruined the old EU. It doesn't give me much hope that the Disney EU will be that much different than the Legends EU.
Spoiler

One of the main characters is a bounty hunter who formerly worked pretty closely with the Empire until the Battle of Endor, after which she switched over to working closely with the New Republic. Her reason? She was at the Battle of Endor, specifically at the ground battle around the shield generator, on a contract to kill Princess Leia. She was hidden up in one of the trees, with Leia in her crosshairs no less, when the scene where the AT-ST approaches the bunker and Chewie pops out causes her to realize the Empire is toast and she ought to consider looking for a new employer.

[Patroklos]

That situation as a plot point is stupid enough. Whatever scenario gymnastics required to make that plot point transpire is even worse. Seriously that is a textbook example of why the old EU has the reputation it does. So sad to see the shenanigans continue.

Also minimalism shows back up in spades
Spoiler

the Empire has to regroup its "scattered forces" over planet of the week for a desperate counter attack. It looks like they are going with Endor representing a significant if not most of the Imperisl military.

[The Romulan Republic]

I agree with Romulan Republic. Not every story needs to be "epic" or be part of the overall arc to the storyline.

You're pretty much preaching to the choir on this one. Unfortunately none of us make the decisions at LFL, and for better or worse LFL seems to tend to go with these sorts of stories in the EU. Which is one reason why it has a generally low regard around here.

I don't feel that the stories should be less epic or not connected to the main story, though some that aren't would be nice for the sake of variety. But I think that you don't have to and shouldn't make every character hugely important to have an epic story.

Like the example Balrog brought up of having some bounty hunter sent to kill Leia at Endor and almost succeeding. I mean, it could be worse. It doesn't outright contradict anything in the film. But it feels implausible and out of place and frankly self-indulgent and vain, like they're screaming "Look how special this new character is".

I think a lot of writers (and/or the people holding the writers' leashes) really don't get the value of subtlety.

So let's take the example of a new character who was at Endor. I don't have a problem with that, even though of course not everyone's life should intersect with the films and its nice to see new places and events as well. But they don't have to have some super special role.

Make your new character a random trooper who flees and manages to grab a shuttle off-world and escape with the Imperial fleet. Or gets captured and escapes or defects. There's plenty of room for daring and action and drama there without the pretentiousness of trying to cram your character into a retroactive major role.

Edit: I mean, what does it say if a being a soldier on the front lines of a galactic war, fighting for their life, isn't exciting enough?

[Simon_Jester]

Also, if we view the movies as an artistic whole, and if they're planning to introduce new characters for the new sequel trilogy, it would actually be logical for some of them to be people whose "origin stories" involve at least SOME the events of the original trilogy. Just as the prequel trilogy devotes much of its energy to describing the origins of the main characters of the original trilogy (particularly Palpatine, Vader, and the Skywalker twins).

Now, obviously the original trilogy isn't about the origins of the sequel characters- but retroactively claiming that some of them were physically present at Endor is not unreasonable.

[Adam Reynolds]

I still thank the heavens that one of my favorite EU events, the mutiny, was largely unexpanded upon within the EU. Millions of warships destroyed in titanic battles larger than anything we have seen in the movies and books in messy civil war intrigues between my raid regional governors, sector admirals, revanchist Core worlds and grasping courtesans. Sectors and regions torn apart and laid bare in inter internecine struggles over and done with before any EU BS got there.

I am amazed that no one bothered to consider this interesting. The closest we got was in Wraith Squadron when Han Solo briefly allies with the Empire to take down Zinj. There was also a mention with regard to Zinj that killing him would lead to further splintering within the Empire, which would allow a massive sucess for the New Republic. In addition there was Darksaber that was the only source that I know of that showed this directly, when Daala dealt with the various leaders and reunified what was left of the Empire.

Personally I thought that would have been an interesting time for the fledgeling New Republic. They have no real ability to take on the Empire directly, they have allies that support them covertly rather than openly, and their attempts to expand are nothing compare to the remanents of the Empire.

This would have actually been a far better backdrop for Wraith Squadron than what we had. If the Wraiths were founded in the immediate aftermath of Endor they would have been an interesting concept as an unorthodox unit designed to do damage to the Empire disproportionate to their size. You could make the main cast a mix of Endor veterans and new recruits rather than veterans of events that followed Endor.

I don't feel that the stories should be less epic or not connected to the main story, though some that aren't would be nice for the sake of variety. But I think that you don't have to and shouldn't make every character hugely important to have an epic story.

Like the example Balrog brought up of having some bounty hunter sent to kill Leia at Endor and almost succeeding. I mean, it could be worse. It doesn't outright contradict anything in the film. But it feels implausible and out of place and frankly self-indulgent and vain, like they're screaming "Look how special this new character is".

I think a lot of writers (and/or the people holding the writers' leashes) really don't get the value of subtlety.

The problem is that they feel that the events that their characters play out must be earth shattering. A large part of the problem is that some fans eat it up. I'm not sure why I remember this, but look at this old thread in which a member came up with an idea for a tabletop RPG campaign. It had everything that one could throw at it. Three or four superweapons, an apparent returned Darth Vader, useless NR leadership. In a nutshell it was the worst of the EU contained into a single story.

Those same fans generally seem to feel that anything less epic is not fitting to SW as a setting. Because the movies were epic, everything that takes place in them must be. Which is funny, because the SW movie widely considered to be the best is actually the smallest in scale(ESB). There are no galactic threats in the same sense as the Death Stars in ANH and ROTJ or the CIS in the prequels, and the primary struggle is a small scale character story in the finale. By making it about characters it worked brilliantly.

So let's take the example of a new character who was at Endor. I don't have a problem with that, even though of course not everyone's life should intersect with the films and its nice to see new places and events as well. But they don't have to have some super special role.

Make your new character a random trooper who flees and manages to grab a shuttle off-world and escape with the Imperial fleet. Or gets captured and escapes or defects. There's plenty of room for daring and action and drama there without the pretentiousness of trying to cram your character into a retroactive major role.

Edit: I mean, what does it say if a being a soldier on the front lines of a galactic war, fighting for their life, isn't exciting enough?

That also seems to be the direction they are going for Finn in the new movies(minus the Endor part). Though I completely agree. There are so many small roles in events of the films that characters could play if one wanted to. Not every character can be a Skywalker. The smaller characters are almost always more relatable anyway.

And when done fairly well, we end up with Wraith Squadron.

Also, if we view the movies as an artistic whole, and if they're planning to introduce new characters for the new sequel trilogy, it would actually be logical for some of them to be people whose "origin stories" involve at least SOME the events of the original trilogy. Just as the prequel trilogy devotes much of its energy to describing the origins of the main characters of the original trilogy (particularly Palpatine, Vader, and the Skywalker twins).

Now, obviously the original trilogy isn't about the origins of the sequel characters- but retroactively claiming that some of them were physically present at Endor is not unreasonable.

I'm pretty sure most of the new cast wasn't born yet. Looking the birthdays for actors, only Andy Serkis would have been old enough at 19(and presumably he plays an alien character for which it doesn't matter). The rest of the new cast would have been less than 10, with the actors playing Finn and Rey not having been born for another ten years. I think the biggest problem with the sequel trilogy from a story standpoint is that it takes place so much later than the films such that there is too much of a time gap. Unlike ROTS, it wasn't because the time gap needed to exist.

In any case, the prequels are different because the OT was made first. It is the fact that it is retroactive that often makes it a problem.

[Dartzap]

I'm attempting to read it currently .The idiot who thought writing a novel in the style of a play was a good idea, is in desperate need of a good thumping. Does no one remember why Shakespeare was a chore as a child?! Exit stage left, he thought dramatically!

[Mange]

I just started reading it, but the writing style is awful and if it continues will take quite a while to get used to.

[Joun_Lord]

Apparently atleast some people are blaming the low scores on Aftermath of nerds being homophobic or SW fans being pissed about the old EU being kill.

I'm sure some people are angry about a gay character despite the fact I'm pretty positive that their have been gay characters in the EU before (I could see a bit of dislike about how much people are jacking off over the inclusion of a gay character, some mind think it shouldn't be a big deal because its happened before and gay people are pretty normal these days, but even thats a stretch) much like how some immature dorks were pissy because Mad Max Fury Road had some cooties having gurl as arguably the main character (I could see people being angry about a character overshadowing the main character much like how some are pissed about Clara on Doc Who is overshadowing the Dr but gender shouldn't matter either way).

There is a slight point to be made about anger towards the death of the EU that people spent decades and probably hundreds of dollars invested in. They are less likely to give even a good new EU book a chance because they fell its an insult to the stories they loved and just goes over ground already tread on. People are angry, people are a bit scared about all the EU being gone including the good and being replaced more shit. Stories that were good like the Zahn stories are definitely out but what about Old Republic or Clone Wars stuff, we going to get crap overwriting those stories?

I personally care little because I became a movie purist (something I once said I'd never do) long before Darth Mouse took over but others who still had a positive view of the EU.......somehow might feel differently.

But those arguments are kinda moot anywho considering by all accounts this is a terrible book irregardless of EU fanboys not giving it a chance or homophobic manchildren being angry about teh gays polluting their space fantasy stories with its wholesome interspecies sex as the Force intended.