Star Wars: Rebels

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Re: Star Wars: Rebels

Post by CaoCao »

Spoiler
Hera appears in Doctor Aphra comic, which happens between ANH and TESB, so she is confirmedto be alive.

BTW, could this "art critic" that gets buried with the temple become Snoke?

Am I the only one worried with where they are going with the Force? Palpatine has even more power and this time travel thing, while it can be a one off, may wreck things. Wonder where they intend to go with the Mortis issue. In the old EU was to explain the background of the last big baddie.
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Re: Star Wars: Rebels

Post by The Romulan Republic »

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At this point I'm basically numb to "so and so is Snoke" theories. We've been down that road so many times, with so little evidence, that I'll believe it when I see it.

I'm glad Hera's going to make it, though.

As to Palpatine's power levels... over-powered Palpatine is nothing new. Dark Empire, anyone? Not a good thing if they go down that route again, but nothing the franchise hasn't done before.
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Re: Star Wars: Rebels

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Can we edit the top of page saying spoilers ahead
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Re: Star Wars: Rebels

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Lord Revan wrote: 2018-02-28 06:10pm
PhoenixKnig wrote: 2018-02-28 06:05pm
Lord Revan wrote: 2018-02-28 05:20pm
I think it's more or less comfirmed that Sabine survives past the Battle of Jakku so she's safe and depending on how the finale relates to Rogue One Hera might be safe too. The fate of the rest of the cast is uncertain though.
What's the source in that
For Sabine I've heard that Poe refers to New Republic propagandist in a comic or novel, that's very similar to Sabine or could have even been confirmed to be her, I've not actually personally seen that source only hear about it second hand. As for Hera there's a backround PA announcement for "general Syndulla" in Rogue One and that was comfirmed in tweet to be Hera and not her father.
I heard on Rogue one saying and I saw the tweet about Hera but never heard yet about Sabine till now
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Re: Star Wars: Rebels

Post by Knife »

It's an interesting take if they are doing what I think they are doing. It's also nice to finish the Clone Wars show that this show pretty much became. I'll give them credit for an interesting out that's not 'kill everyone since we never saw them in the OT'.
They say, "the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots." I suppose it never occurred to them that they are the tyrants, not the patriots. Those weapons are not being used to fight some kind of tyranny; they are bringing them to an event where people are getting together to talk. -Mike Wong

But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red
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Re: Star Wars: Rebels

Post by bilateralrope »

The Romulan Republic wrote: 2018-02-28 08:20pm Oh, nasty thought...

I wonder if she was one of Luke's students who got killed by Kylo Ren.
What possible sequence of events could lead to Ashoka being Luke's student ?
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Re: Star Wars: Rebels

Post by Galvatron »

Knife wrote: 2018-03-04 10:46am It's an interesting take if they are doing what I think they are doing. It's also nice to finish the Clone Wars show that this show pretty much became. I'll give them credit for an interesting out that's not 'kill everyone since we never saw them in the OT'.
My cynical side thinks that Dave Filoni is putting Ahsoka in his own "witness protection program" to prevent Rian Johnson or Kathleen Kennedy from killing her off before Disney comes to their senses and promotes him to head of Lucasfilm Creative.



When that happens, he can reintroduce Ahsoka into the live-action films and give us all a well-developed alien female as a new hero to cheer for. :D
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Re: Star Wars: Rebels

Post by CaoCao »

Galvatron wrote: 2018-03-04 01:21pm
Knife wrote: 2018-03-04 10:46am It's an interesting take if they are doing what I think they are doing. It's also nice to finish the Clone Wars show that this show pretty much became. I'll give them credit for an interesting out that's not 'kill everyone since we never saw them in the OT'.
My cynical side thinks that Dave Filoni is putting Ahsoka in his own "witness protection program" to prevent Rian Johnson or Kathleen Kennedy from killing her off before Disney comes to their senses and promotes him to head of Lucasfilm Creative.



When that happens, he can reintroduce Ahsoka into the live-action films and give us all a well-developed alien female as a new hero to cheer for. :D
She is clearly tied to the Mortis arc, so they could keep her and bring her back in the sequel era. But it should happen under Dave, if it's JJ or Ryan... ugh.
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Re: Star Wars: Rebels

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Meh, She'd be like 60 something. The new movies already have a bunch of the old cast to serve the 'wizened mentor' role... well actually they are running out of them to be honest. Han, Luke, and now the actress for Leia so unless they CGI her; which was awful in Rogue One, maybe they do need a mentor character.

Hell, at least Asoka actually has Jedi training, over a decade of it. And Jedi combat training with actual combat experience and a good and deep understanding of the perils of the Dark Side and emotion but insight into the stupidity of the old Jedi "just block it out and don't worry about it' philosophy.
They say, "the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots." I suppose it never occurred to them that they are the tyrants, not the patriots. Those weapons are not being used to fight some kind of tyranny; they are bringing them to an event where people are getting together to talk. -Mike Wong

But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red
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Re: Star Wars: Rebels

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Knife wrote: 2018-03-04 04:09pm Meh, She'd be like 60 something. The new movies already have a bunch of the old cast to serve the 'wizened mentor' role... well actually they are running out of them to be honest. Han, Luke, and now the actress for Leia so unless they CGI her; which was awful in Rogue One, maybe they do need a mentor character.

Hell, at least Asoka actually has Jedi training, over a decade of it. And Jedi combat training with actual combat experience and a good and deep understanding of the perils of the Dark Side and emotion but insight into the stupidity of the old Jedi "just block it out and don't worry about it' philosophy.
Time travel is a thing is SW now.
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Re: Star Wars: Rebels

Post by The Romulan Republic »

bilateralrope wrote: 2018-03-04 11:25am
The Romulan Republic wrote: 2018-02-28 08:20pm Oh, nasty thought...

I wonder if she was one of Luke's students who got killed by Kylo Ren.
What possible sequence of events could lead to Ashoka being Luke's student ?
One equally implausible to Anakin having a teenage padawan during the Clone Wars who survives Order 66? :wink:

Hmm, here's a disquieting thought: is the introduction of time travel in Star Wars opening the door for an eventual Abrams Trek-style reboot?
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Re: Star Wars: Rebels

Post by bilateralrope »

The Romulan Republic wrote: 2018-03-04 10:15pm
bilateralrope wrote: 2018-03-04 11:25am
The Romulan Republic wrote: 2018-02-28 08:20pm Oh, nasty thought...

I wonder if she was one of Luke's students who got killed by Kylo Ren.
What possible sequence of events could lead to Ashoka being Luke's student ?
One equally implausible to Anakin having a teenage padawan during the Clone Wars who survives Order 66? :wink:

Hmm, here's a disquieting thought: is the introduction of time travel in Star Wars opening the door for an eventual Abrams Trek-style reboot?
Ashoka survived Order 66 by being nowhere near a clone trooper when it happened, because she became disillusioned with the Jedi Order and left beforehand. That's pretty plausible.

The big problem with Ashoka being Luke's student is that I doubt there is much, if anything, that he knows that she hasn't already learnt.
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Re: Star Wars: Rebels

Post by Sea Skimmer »

She had oh like, actual years more jedi training then the maximum of months Luke ever had. Luke only apparently made up some of the ground by reading old jedi books, but it's not clear to me that this even took place prior to his academy failure. If anything Ashoka might end up the teacher.
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Re: Star Wars: Rebels

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Sea Skimmer wrote: 2018-03-04 11:00pm She had oh like, actual years more jedi training then the maximum of months Luke ever had. Luke only apparently made up some of the ground by reading old jedi books, but it's not clear to me that this even took place prior to his academy failure. If anything Ashoka might end up the teacher.
Ashoka training Luke could be a fun alternate timeline.

But yeah, I don't know that Luke would have much to teach her. Turning into a Force ghost, maybe? Though it would be interesting to see them compare their different experiences and philosophies. Luke seems to be more pacifistic, almost, and more focussed on psychologically manipulating his foes.

I think he could teach Ashoka something about tactics and psychological warfare, maybe. Still, I think he'd have to jump her straight to knight if she were willing to join.

She'd work better as an outside consultant/guest lecturer than a student, if you wanted her to interact with Luke's Order.
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Re: Star Wars: Rebels

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Depends what tactics you mean, Ashoka fought in a major conventional war, irregular operations during that war and then took part in a Galactic wide insurgency. Also she fought Darth Vader without loosing any limbs. Canon Luke's military experience is a lot more limited, and even in the old EU he was generally not on the front line or a major command role. The only thing Luke has going for him in an absolute sense is the chosen one blood thing as I see it, and he screwed that up in the end.

Given that she was wise enough to leave the jedi order I can't see any scenario where she accepts teaching or title from someone that junior to herself. A consultant, maybe. But I think she'd be more then a little timid about being involved with a minimally trained Vader blooded Jedi trying to recreate an order she herself knew was corrupted.
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Re: Star Wars: Rebels

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Ahsoka surviving Order 66 merely requires her to be out of the way at the ass-end of nowhere and if there's anything Star Wars has plenty of, it's ass-ends of nowhere.
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Re: Star Wars: Rebels

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Batman wrote: 2018-03-05 12:16am Ahsoka surviving Order 66 merely requires her to be out of the way at the ass-end of nowhere and if there's anything Star Wars has plenty of, it's ass-ends of nowhere.
Aye that's part of the universes universal appeal too. You have all this fast-high tech stuff going on, but also this infinite cowboy-dark forest-wild lands thing going on, all one hyper jump apart.

Once Ahsoka left the jedi order the only way her location would be known if is someone was physically trailing her the whole way. Which wouldn't be impossible but would serve no clear purpose.

Order 66 needed to eliminate the threat to Palpatine's new regime in a military sense and a political sense. The former by killing any Jedi strong enough to kill Palpatine personally, which doesn't seem to have been many of them, and secure control of at least the large majority of the clone armies. The later political move is just coup 101, you need to prevent an alternative narrative from being spread. Again that really only required killing the most important and well known Jedi. Total eradication would be desirable for the Sith, but not essential to the plan, and once Palpatine took power he'd have an enormous job consolidating . Which after all in canon didn't actually finished until A New Hope when the senate is abolished.

Hunting down half trained jedi whom it might be feasible to make Sith Lords (speculatively, but relevant) later to replace Anakin might not be that high a priority. Keeping order 66 secret would be more important then ensuring a 100% kill rate (I still hate that biochip episode of clone wars for making the jedi dumber then bricks, instead of just overconfident). Plus it's kinda part of the point of the Sith that they are angry and shortsighted!
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Re: Star Wars: Rebels

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Knife wrote: 2018-03-04 04:09pm Meh, She'd be like 60 something. The new movies already have a bunch of the old cast to serve the 'wizened mentor' role... well actually they are running out of them to be honest. Han, Luke, and now the actress for Leia so unless they CGI her; which was awful in Rogue One, maybe they do need a mentor character.

Hell, at least Asoka actually has Jedi training, over a decade of it. And Jedi combat training with actual combat experience and a good and deep understanding of the perils of the Dark Side and emotion but insight into the stupidity of the old Jedi "just block it out and don't worry about it' philosophy.
Ahsoka also has the benefit of being wildly popular with the younger generation of Star Wars fans, which is something that Disney seems to treasure like gold. She even won over a lot of older, cynical fans after a rocky start in the Clone Wars movie so I doubt you'd see very much backlash against her.

They just need to get the casting right and make sure she's handled well, which Filoni would nail.
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Re: Star Wars: Rebels

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Sea Skimmer wrote: 2018-03-05 12:33am
Batman wrote: 2018-03-05 12:16am Ahsoka surviving Order 66 merely requires her to be out of the way at the ass-end of nowhere and if there's anything Star Wars has plenty of, it's ass-ends of nowhere.
Aye that's part of the universes universal appeal too. You have all this fast-high tech stuff going on, but also this infinite cowboy-dark forest-wild lands thing going on, all one hyper jump apart.

Once Ahsoka left the jedi order the only way her location would be known if is someone was physically trailing her the whole way. Which wouldn't be impossible but would serve no clear purpose.

Order 66 needed to eliminate the threat to Palpatine's new regime in a military sense and a political sense. The former by killing any Jedi strong enough to kill Palpatine personally, which doesn't seem to have been many of them, and secure control of at least the large majority of the clone armies. The later political move is just coup 101, you need to prevent an alternative narrative from being spread. Again that really only required killing the most important and well known Jedi. Total eradication would be desirable for the Sith, but not essential to the plan, and once Palpatine took power he'd have an enormous job consolidating . Which after all in canon didn't actually finished until A New Hope when the senate is abolished.

Hunting down half trained jedi whom it might be feasible to make Sith Lords (speculatively, but relevant) later to replace Anakin might not be that high a priority. Keeping order 66 secret would be more important then ensuring a 100% kill rate (I still hate that biochip episode of clone wars for making the jedi dumber then bricks, instead of just overconfident). Plus it's kinda part of the point of the Sith that they are angry and shortsighted!

Indeed. Palpatine had to kill the Jedi Order, not all the Jedi. The novel, I do believe though maybe it was old EU, made a reference to some Jedi who just stopped being Jedi. Of course, part of killing the Order is killing off the leadership. Even then Kenobi and Yoda just disappeared, in the long run it would be about the same. They didn't stick around and make holo calls to GNN about how their order was murdered, how they were persecuted by government forces, etc...

As for the Luke teaching Asoka, what is he going to teach her? He is the "chosen one" in so much that he was the right person, in the right place, at the right time, and MADE the right choice. TLJ pretty much obliterates any other thing he could have been. He's just the guy who could redeem Vader instead of kill him, Vader was the guy who could kill Palpatine without Palpy seeing it coming. It was Good winning by doing good things.

Asoka already learned this lesson. Asoka stepped down from a very powerful position as Anakin's Padawan, left a very powerful institution because they were wrong. She didn't do a corrupt thing to stay in power, she rejected power and prestige for the good of it. Perhaps not the galaxy spanning implications of her Master and his kid's choice, but still Good by doing good. Let alone she was willing to sacrifice herself to save Ezra and sacrifice herself to try to save Vader. You might even say her emotional shock to Vader in her fight with him might have shaken Anakin somewhat, making him more emotionally vulnerable to Luke.
They say, "the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots." I suppose it never occurred to them that they are the tyrants, not the patriots. Those weapons are not being used to fight some kind of tyranny; they are bringing them to an event where people are getting together to talk. -Mike Wong

But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red
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Re: Star Wars: Rebels

Post by Galvatron »

Given the timeless nature of the realm in which she was last seen, mid-30s Ahsoka could conceivably emerge at some point be the new protagonist for whatever movies Disney has planned beyond the first nine.
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Re: Star Wars: Rebels

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Sea Skimmer wrote: 2018-03-05 12:04am Depends what tactics you mean, Ashoka fought in a major conventional war, irregular operations during that war and then took part in a Galactic wide insurgency. Also she fought Darth Vader without loosing any limbs. Canon Luke's military experience is a lot more limited, and even in the old EU he was generally not on the front line or a major command role. The only thing Luke has going for him in an absolute sense is the chosen one blood thing as I see it, and he screwed that up in the end.

Given that she was wise enough to leave the jedi order I can't see any scenario where she accepts teaching or title from someone that junior to herself. A consultant, maybe. But I think she'd be more then a little timid about being involved with a minimally trained Vader blooded Jedi trying to recreate an order she herself knew was corrupted.
It depends on the specifics of Luke's order, yeah. She had damn good reasons for walking away from the Old Republic Jedi, and that might well bias her against any other incarnations of the Order. But a new Jedi Order founded on different principles and with different leadership? Hard to say.

I doubt she'd outright join, though, after becoming accustomed to operating independently.
Galvatron wrote: 2018-03-05 12:12pm Given the timeless nature of the realm in which she was last seen, mid-30s Ahsoka could conceivably emerge at some point be the new protagonist for whatever movies Disney has planned beyond the first nine.
Yeah.

I wonder if elevating a supporting character from a cartoon in that way would cause a fan backlash though. Probably from older fans, but not younger ones.
Knife wrote: 2018-03-05 12:07pmAye that's part of the universes universal appeal too. You have all this fast-high tech stuff going on, but also this infinite cowboy-dark forest-wild lands thing going on, all one hyper jump apart.
Isn't that the appeal of space opera in general? But Star Wars does it particularly well.
Once Ahsoka left the jedi order the only way her location would be known if is someone was physically trailing her the whole way. Which wouldn't be impossible but would serve no clear purpose.
True.

My point in saying that Ashoka's existence is implausible isn't that you can't come up with explanations for it. Just that if you had told me right after RotS that Anakin had a kid padawan during the Clone Wars who we never saw, who would go on to survive until at least the New Hope era... well, without knowing the context that's been developed over the last ten years or so (Christ, has it been that long since the Clone Wars movie came out?), I probably would have thought it ridiculous. I mean, I had a lot of doubts about Ashoka when the character was first created.
Order 66 needed to eliminate the threat to Palpatine's new regime in a military sense and a political sense. The former by killing any Jedi strong enough to kill Palpatine personally, which doesn't seem to have been many of them, and secure control of at least the large majority of the clone armies. The later political move is just coup 101, you need to prevent an alternative narrative from being spread. Again that really only required killing the most important and well known Jedi. Total eradication would be desirable for the Sith, but not essential to the plan, and once Palpatine took power he'd have an enormous job consolidating . Which after all in canon didn't actually finished until A New Hope when the senate is abolished.

Hunting down half trained jedi whom it might be feasible to make Sith Lords (speculatively, but relevant) later to replace Anakin might not be that high a priority. Keeping order 66 secret would be more important then ensuring a 100% kill rate (I still hate that biochip episode of clone wars for making the jedi dumber then bricks, instead of just overconfident). Plus it's kinda part of the point of the Sith that they are angry and shortsighted!
Yeah, I don't think Palpatine would have given a shit about Ashoka if she'd just gone to live on a random dustball and not tried to help the Rebellion.
Indeed. Palpatine had to kill the Jedi Order, not all the Jedi. The novel, I do believe though maybe it was old EU, made a reference to some Jedi who just stopped being Jedi. Of course, part of killing the Order is killing off the leadership. Even then Kenobi and Yoda just disappeared, in the long run it would be about the same. They didn't stick around and make holo calls to GNN about how their order was murdered, how they were persecuted by government forces, etc...
But was we saw, one Jedi in the right place at the right time can restart the Order.
As for the Luke teaching Asoka, what is he going to teach her? He is the "chosen one" in so much that he was the right person, in the right place, at the right time, and MADE the right choice. TLJ pretty much obliterates any other thing he could have been. He's just the guy who could redeem Vader instead of kill him, Vader was the guy who could kill Palpatine without Palpy seeing it coming. It was Good winning by doing good things.
Pretty much, although I do think that Luke's last stand would pass into galactic legend as a nice coda to his legacy.

But as to what he could teach Ashoka...

Pretty much nothing about a combat, or combative uses of the Force. Ashoka knows that backwards and forwards.

Probably not much about resisting the Dark Side, either.

I do think it would be interesting for them to compare methods. Ashoka is more combative, even vengeful at times, though not to the point of being Dark Side. Luke is almost pacifistic in his approach as a Jedi, avoiding direct conflict and instead manipulating his opponents' psychological weaknesses. He showed this at both Endor and the duel with Kylo. There's a reason I've come to regard the character as almost a Light Side counterpart of Palpatine.

The only specific technique I can see Luke teaching Ashoka would be turning into a Force ghost (since I don't think Ashoka would have the strength in the Force for the long-range illusion stuff).
Asoka already learned this lesson. Asoka stepped down from a very powerful position as Anakin's Padawan, left a very powerful institution because they were wrong. She didn't do a corrupt thing to stay in power, she rejected power and prestige for the good of it. Perhaps not the galaxy spanning implications of her Master and his kid's choice, but still Good by doing good. Let alone she was willing to sacrifice herself to save Ezra and sacrifice herself to try to save Vader. You might even say her emotional shock to Vader in her fight with him might have shaken Anakin somewhat, making him more emotionally vulnerable to Luke.
Indeed.
Galvatron wrote: 2018-03-05 05:33amAhsoka also has the benefit of being wildly popular with the younger generation of Star Wars fans, which is something that Disney seems to treasure like gold. She even won over a lot of older, cynical fans after a rocky start in the Clone Wars movie so I doubt you'd see very much backlash against her.

They just need to get the casting right and make sure she's handled well, which Filoni would nail.
Speaking as someone who had a lot of misgivings about Ashoka initially, but grew to love the character, I think a lot of it (for me at least) is simply that I came in with very low expectations, and was pleasantly surprised. Ashoka is a character who by all rights shouldn't have worked, but did.

Its interesting, because every major new Star Wars project from RotJ onwards has gotten some significant degree, at one level or another, of fan backlash. Usually that hostility dies down somewhat over time, and the new material is, if not loved, at least accepted (and I do think most of the Disney canon probably will be, in time).

But Ashoka is probably the canon's most triumphant example of a character rapidly overcoming fan backlash to the point that they are positively well-liked by the fandom as a whole. I remember when Ashoka was first created, there were a lot of concerns about her not fitting in with the canon, about making Star Wars too much for little kids... pretty sure she even got called a Mary Sue, and not surprisingly, given that she was basically a female OC being retconned into a pivitol role in the saga, with a level of competency that surpassed what might be expected of someone her age (I remember complaints about her surviving against Grievous and Ventress, for example).

And yet, somehow, none of it stuck, and they managed to develop the character into an accepted and even beloved addition to the franchise, to the point that she may very well be the most popular EU character (possibly excluding Thrawn) who hasn't been retconned out of canon. Certainly in the top echelon of EU characters, I'd think, along with Thrawn, Ventress, Grievous (who got promoted to film), Revan, and Mara Jade.

I'm curious as to why that's the case, and I daresay Disney and Lucasfilm will want to emulate that success if they can.
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Re: Star Wars: Rebels

Post by SAMAS »

bilateralrope wrote: 2018-03-04 10:36pm
The Romulan Republic wrote: 2018-03-04 10:15pm
bilateralrope wrote: 2018-03-04 11:25am

What possible sequence of events could lead to Ashoka being Luke's student ?
One equally implausible to Anakin having a teenage padawan during the Clone Wars who survives Order 66? :wink:

Hmm, here's a disquieting thought: is the introduction of time travel in Star Wars opening the door for an eventual Abrams Trek-style reboot?
Ashoka survived Order 66 by being nowhere near a clone trooper when it happened, because she became disillusioned with the Jedi Order and left beforehand. That's pretty plausible.

The big problem with Ashoka being Luke's student is that I doubt there is much, if anything, that he knows that she hasn't already learnt.
Actually IIRC, Ashoka was with a detachment of the 501st at the time. Fortunately for her, that included the one Clone in the Legion without a chip. They managed to fake each other's deaths and escape.
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Re: Star Wars: Rebels

Post by SAMAS »

I just had a thought. Since it was pretty much confirmed that Rex fought at Endor, that suggests that he spent most of Season 4 at the Yavin base, likely helping to train Rebel soldiers (what else are you gonna do with a veteran Clone Commander?).

So do you think Luke ever got the opportunity to talk to him about his father?
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Re: Star Wars: Rebels

Post by Pelranius »

Spoiler
Looks like the great road trip of Thrawn, Ezra, Pellaeon and the 7th fleet is going to be a thing. Bonus points if Ezra uses Jorus as a fake name at some point.
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Re: Star Wars: Rebels

Post by Rogue 9 »

Spoiler
So... we just jump straight from that to the aftermath of Endor? The fuck?
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