What if the Jedi had to face modern armies?

[Haruhi]

I simply prefer that the Jedi were more powerful.

Make the Jedi more powerful and you have to make their opponents more powerful to keep the story interesting.

So, if you make both sides more powerful, what have you really gained ?

I agree that the Jedi's enemies are more powerful. What have we gained? More spectacular and fun in fighting especially considering video games. You seem to answer this question by saying that we have not gained anything, but according to this thinking, no fiction would have super-powers, because if the heroes have super-powers, also the villains, so we'd be as if none had super-powers, which is absurd.

[Eternal_Freedom]

We are asking what the story has gained. Your response is essentially "better special effects." Now, SFX certainly helps a story but better SFX alone cannot make a story.

[Lord Revan]

Indeed and in the end effects be they practical or CGI can add very little to the story unless the story was so poor the effects are the "story", a good or even decent story stands on it's own.

In good stories the villains are at least equal to the heroes "power" in the story, note that this doesn't have mean physical power, no one is gonna claim that Lex Luthor is anywhere near the physical power that Superman has, but thanks to Luthor's political and economic influence (not mention is own intellect) he can still repesent a threat to superman storywise.

while villains can be more powerful storywise and not cause major problems, if they're signifigantly weaker then the heroes storywise you start to ask why should we root for the so called heroes as they just seem bullies that force people to follow their agenda cause no one can stop them.

and this doesn't really change if we talk about protagonist or antagonist same general rules apply, in essence you need to be able to root for the protagonist.

That said no matter how vile you make the antagonist the story will be boring if the only thing the protagonist struggles against is the SFX/VFX budget or equilevant and this is true in any medium.

[ray245]

I simply prefer that the Jedi were more powerful.

Make the Jedi more powerful and you have to make their opponents more powerful to keep the story interesting.

So, if you make both sides more powerful, what have you really gained ?

I agree that the Jedi's enemies are more powerful. What have we gained? More spectacular and fun in fighting especially considering video games. You seem to answer this question by saying that we have not gained anything, but according to this thinking, no fiction would have super-powers, because if the heroes have super-powers, also the villains, so we'd be as if none had super-powers, which is absurd.

Does giving the Jedi more powerful skills automatically translate into more spectacular and fun action scenes? It's not about what kind of abilities the characters have in the movie, it's about how the director frame the action sequences.

Superman in Superman Returns have more powerful abilities than may Jedi. Does that make the movie more exciting than the Star Wars movies? It's just really sad that you have the mentality of a teenager, who thinks that you need bigger explosions to make a movie "better".

[Haruhi]

Does giving the Jedi more powerful skills automatically translate into more spectacular and fun action scenes? It's not about what kind of abilities the characters have in the movie, it's about how the director frame the action sequences.

Superman in Superman Returns have more powerful abilities than may Jedi. Does that make the movie more exciting than the Star Wars movies? It's just really sad that you have the mentality of a teenager, who thinks that you need bigger explosions to make a movie "better".

It is true what you say, but I think in video games, not movies.

[ray245]

It is true what you say, but I think in video games, not movies.

If you know that video games and movies are two different things, why the hell are you insisting that Jedi must have all of your "power-ups" in the movies? What is the point of listening to your ideas anyway? If you are not going to defend any of your ideas, it just feel like you are spamming this thread for the sake of getting more attention.

[Batman]

In all fairness he did mention he was talking about how he thought that would affect a game in the OP. And having the mentality of a teenager is hardly a crime when one is a teenager. I don't know how old Haruhi is. Do you? And I don't think he ever specifically said the Jedi should be more powerful in the movies too, the 'in games' perspective just sort of got plowed under in the general discussion.

[lPeregrine]

You seem to answer this question by saying that we have not gained anything, but according to this thinking, no fiction would have super-powers, because if the heroes have super-powers, also the villains, so we'd be as if none had super-powers, which is absurd.

Fiction has superpowers because sometimes it's interesting to speculate about what would happen if people had superpowers and what stories would be told. That doesn't make those stories/games "better" than ones about standard humans, it just makes them different. How good the story/game will be depends entirely on things like writing, art design, etc. Whether the protagonist shoots someone with a gun or with a jedi fireball has very little impact on the final result.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Since you seem to be mostly interested in video games, I would like to know what you tihnk of Republic Commando, nary a Jedi in sight but considered one of the best SW games. Proff that characters don't need epic superpowers to be interesting or enjoyable.

[gigabytelord]

Since you seem to be mostly interested in video games, I would like to know what you tihnk of Republic Commando, nary a Jedi in sight but considered one of the best SW games. Proof that characters don't need epic superpowers to be interesting or enjoyable.

I don't know about the OP but I certainly loved Republic Commando. I know when it first came out people were complaining that it was to short, but after re-buying it and playing it again recently I have to say that it was the perfect length. Any longer and it would have detracted from the experience.

[Connor MacLeod]

Its utterly bizarre how this has gone off 'how Jedi face modern armies and their usage in a military context' to 'what is thematically appropriate for Jedi', even by SDN's liberally meandering discussion habits.

Anyhow, the reason I don't factor any sort of TK ability as being relavent in actual warfare is because Warfare is not single combat or even small group combat. The ability to drop a rock on a vehicle (or rip off its wheels) or to send a handful (or even dozens, or hundreds) of guy's flying with a wave of your hand is impressive, but it doesn't do much when your armies of tens of thousands and scores or hundreds of vehicles are clashing across kilometres and artillery is bombarding from over the horizon (or from orbit) Wars aren't won by supermen who can lift tanks. They're won by well trained groups of individuals who have the right gear and work together towards a common goal - that is true even by Star War's rather loose definition of 'military competence.' Unless your Jedi warrior can knock whole regiments off their feet in a fell swoop, immobilize an armored division, or deflect artillery bombardments from hitting his troops via some magic shield, its not going to have any large scale impact on the battlefield. Such TK (again Something like Starkiller or Clone Wars micro series Mace Windu) is vanishingly rare.

I suppose you could argue telekinetically incapacitating or assasinating the opposite officers would be useful and not require large-scale TK power, but that's not exactly something a Jedi is likely to routinely do either (at least not at the drop of the hat or without some extreme circumstances forcing it. Unless you're Anakin of course.)

On the contrast, telepathy, empathy, precognition, and the abilities to influence large numbers of minds or emotions IS relevant as information is always valuable on the battlefield (especially as to the intentions of your enemy) and the ability to mess with their morale/psychology (or bolster your own) can be of huge value too.

[Haruhi]

Since you seem to be mostly interested in video games, I would like to know what you tihnk of Republic Commando, nary a Jedi in sight but considered one of the best SW games.

I have played Republic Commando and I did not like. The ambience is poor, the weapons do not seem strong and commands you can give to your teammates are very simple. And although I have played many games where players have no extraordinary powers, I prefer to handle characters with extraordinary powers.

[Haruhi]

Seriously, all this fanon and you post in 'Pure Star Wars?' Is this a joke thread or are you serious?

So where I could present these ideas?

[biostem]

In small engagements, where the soldiers were not aware of what a Jedi could do, and/or if your basic infantry soldiers could be considered "weak minded", then a single or a few Jedi could totally dominate them. Unless we are considering some of the extreme feats of telekinesis demonstrated in some of the games & cartoons as "standard", then they would be overcome by standard small arms fire and grenades...

[StarSword]

On the contrast, telepathy, empathy, precognition, and the abilities to influence large numbers of minds or emotions IS relevant as information is always valuable on the battlefield (especially as to the intentions of your enemy) and the ability to mess with their morale/psychology (or bolster your own) can be of huge value too.

So, Battle Meditation, in other words. That makes sense, and certainly explains why Jedi capable of it are usually priority targets for the Sith during the various Sith Wars.