Disney to acquire Lucasfilm

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Re: Disney to acquire Lucasfilm

Post by Stark » 2013-01-28 11:06pm

He's probably referring to Luke's mystical awakening at the end of ROTJ, and not whatever filth the EU vomited up.

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Re: Disney to acquire Lucasfilm

Post by Batman » 2013-01-28 11:11pm

Yes, thank you, it's not like him explicitly mentioning ROTJ was something of a giveaway. This may come as a shock to you but some of us don't hate the EU in its entirety;)
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Re: Disney to acquire Lucasfilm

Post by Elfdart » 2013-01-28 11:13pm

The Romulan Republic wrote:It was important to give Grievous enough screen time as well, unless you think they should have cut him altogether. But I agree that Dooku should have had more screen time.

Revenge of the Sith should have been longer.
The movie is perfect the way it is. I'm not the only one who thinks so: According to Camille Paglia, it's not only the best movie of the last thirty years but...
The long finale of Revenge of the Sith, leading up to Darth Vader’s tortured fabrication and the birth and separation of the twin babies Luke and Leia, is in my view the most powerful work of art in any genre in the past 30 years — including literature.
She's right.
"One way we recognize a mass hysteria movement is that everyone who doesn’t believe is accused of being in on the plot. This has been going on virtually unrestrained in both political and media circles in recent weeks."

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Re: Disney to acquire Lucasfilm

Post by Elfdart » 2013-01-28 11:23pm

Stark wrote:Well that appeal to authority has certainly resolved the situation for me. :lol:
It should.
"One way we recognize a mass hysteria movement is that everyone who doesn’t believe is accused of being in on the plot. This has been going on virtually unrestrained in both political and media circles in recent weeks."

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Re: Disney to acquire Lucasfilm

Post by Stark » 2013-01-28 11:31pm

I just want to go on the record as saying that if it was anyone else, I'd give them at least a little benefit of the doubt. Because it's you, everyone knows you're dead serious. :lol: Discussion over, kids! Fans said something they liked was THE BEST EVER!

The best part is your quote leave the speaker a way out via subjectivity, but you don't... because you're an obsessive. :)

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Re: Disney to acquire Lucasfilm

Post by thejester » 2013-01-28 11:36pm

Nonsense, Stark. It's a compelling argument she puts forward there.
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Re: Disney to acquire Lucasfilm

Post by Stark » 2013-01-28 11:40pm

thejester wrote:Nonsense, Stark. It's a compelling argument she puts forward there.
I know, but look, I'm just 'a hater'. I'm in the middle of composing a thread about this show I really liked with powerful themes that ended badly due to a rushed climax, and I figure why bother? Just find someone somewhere who said it was good and call quits.

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Re: Disney to acquire Lucasfilm

Post by JLTucker » 2013-01-28 11:42pm

Elfdart wrote:The movie is perfect the way it is. I'm not the only one who thinks so: According to Camille Paglia, it's not only the best movie of the last thirty years but...
The long finale of Revenge of the Sith, leading up to Darth Vader’s tortured fabrication and the birth and separation of the twin babies Luke and Leia, is in my view the most powerful work of art in any genre in the past 30 years — including literature.
She's right.
I don't see anything in Sith as being powerful except for the exceptionally shot and edited Order 66. When you watch that scene, you marvel at how stupid the Jedi are and how they couldn't perceive what was being done. The look on Yoda's face is priceless. Before Order 66, Anakin's fall is completely unconvincing. One moment he's pleading with Palpatine and fighting his feelings and then he immediately submits. There's no convincing conflict at all. It's too damned fast. You can harp on about his development in AotC, but even there it's horrendous and ruined by lack of conviction by all acting parties. After Order 66, things are too drawn out and derivative for any sort of immense enjoyment. Obi Wan's duel with Anakin is boring and nothing but CG wankery to placate the lowest common denominator. There's no drama in it. And I like this movie.

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Re: Disney to acquire Lucasfilm

Post by Guardsman Bass » 2013-01-28 11:54pm

Batman wrote:Yes, thank you, it's not like him explicitly mentioning ROTJ was something of a giveaway. This may come as a shock to you but some of us don't hate the EU in its entirety;)
I don't completely hate it, but Luke getting married never really felt like it jibed with the character at the end of ROTJ. I see post- ROTJ Luke as a wanderer, seeking out places important to the Jedi, meditating in solitude, and communing with the spirits of Anakin, Obi-Wan, and Yoda. Occasionally he' d train apprentices that the Force brought to him for a while, and he would sometimes end up in adventures. Possibly he' d train Leia.
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Re: Disney to acquire Lucasfilm

Post by Stark » 2013-01-28 11:57pm

I could even have seen him largely turning his back on the past (as he does in the film) in order to focus on helping the galaxy and the people in it, rather than resurrecting a dead fossilised order of which he knows nothing and has no attachment to. But then, it's not the 80s and we're not desperate for MORE STAR WARS, anything MORE STAR WARS.

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Re: Disney to acquire Lucasfilm

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2013-01-29 12:30am

Guardsman Bass wrote:
Batman wrote:Yes, thank you, it's not like him explicitly mentioning ROTJ was something of a giveaway. This may come as a shock to you but some of us don't hate the EU in its entirety;)
I don't completely hate it, but Luke getting married never really felt like it jibed with the character at the end of ROTJ. I see post- ROTJ Luke as a wanderer, seeking out places important to the Jedi, meditating in solitude, and communing with the spirits of Anakin, Obi-Wan, and Yoda. Occasionally he' d train apprentices that the Force brought to him for a while, and he would sometimes end up in adventures. Possibly he' d train Leia.
Luke falling in love would fit with the development of the Jedi. They changed from an order that condemned loving relationships because they thought attachment is bad, to Yoda deciding to allow Luke and Leia to be raised by families, to Luke's attachment to his father preventing him from killing Vader and Vader's feelings about Luke saving the galaxy and balancing the Force by causing him to turn against Palpatine. Therefore, Luke marrying would fit with the change in the Jedi Order, and be an excellent example of what makes him different from his predecessors.

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Re: Disney to acquire Lucasfilm

Post by Stark » 2013-01-29 12:33am

I think talking about 'change' to the 'Jedi Order' involved forgetting the Jedi Order was totally destroyed. Luke is a Jedi; he's not a card-holding Jedi Master from the Jedi Order. Its just a shame that the need for MORE ADVENTURES prevented him from doing anything but getting trapped on the treadmill. Now that I think of those final shots in light of what Guardsman Bass has said, it's a bigger shame than ever.

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Re: Disney to acquire Lucasfilm

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2013-01-29 01:00am

The Jedi Order was not totally destroyed. While Luke is the only Jedi left, the Order exists insofar as Luke exists.

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Re: Disney to acquire Lucasfilm

Post by Stark » 2013-01-29 01:10am

That's like saying Roman Catholicism exists so long as anyone anywhere believes in Christ. This is a thought experiment trying to imagine alternate ways forward from 1986, not an exercise in dredging EU rationales. Luke turning his back on the past - and in the form of Yoda arguably the past of the failed Order nobody cares about - to face his friends in the 'now' is one of the final images of the Star Wars movies. You can ignore it and say he reboots the order and creates heaps of super cool knights to tell cookie cutter stories about, but that doesn't seem very interesting or respectful.

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Re: Disney to acquire Lucasfilm

Post by Guardsman Bass » 2013-01-29 02:37am

The Romulan Republic wrote:
Guardsman Bass wrote:
Batman wrote:Yes, thank you, it's not like him explicitly mentioning ROTJ was something of a giveaway. This may come as a shock to you but some of us don't hate the EU in its entirety;)
I don't completely hate it, but Luke getting married never really felt like it jibed with the character at the end of ROTJ. I see post- ROTJ Luke as a wanderer, seeking out places important to the Jedi, meditating in solitude, and communing with the spirits of Anakin, Obi-Wan, and Yoda. Occasionally he' d train apprentices that the Force brought to him for a while, and he would sometimes end up in adventures. Possibly he' d train Leia.
Luke falling in love would fit with the development of the Jedi. They changed from an order that condemned loving relationships because they thought attachment is bad, to Yoda deciding to allow Luke and Leia to be raised by families, to Luke's attachment to his father preventing him from killing Vader and Vader's feelings about Luke saving the galaxy and balancing the Force by causing him to turn against Palpatine. Therefore, Luke marrying would fit with the change in the Jedi Order, and be an excellent example of what makes him different from his predecessors.
I think "wandering Luke" would work, too. Instead of bringing candidates to a centralized temple as more or less infants, to be raised according to program, he trains people whom the Force brings to him (sort of like how Yoda and Obi-Wan left Luke and Leia with parents and waited). No "Order" in the form of an increasingly rigid, dogmatic organization, just Jedi who try to help people and follow the Force where it takes them.

He wouldn't be rejecting "love", which isn't just romantic love. He would still be close to Leia, and might train her to some degree.
The Romulan Republic wrote:The Jedi Order was not totally destroyed. While Luke is the only Jedi left, the Order exists insofar as Luke exists.
I think it was, even if some of the original essence of being a "Jedi" was reborn with Luke. The old Order died with Obi-Wan, Yoda, and ( twice, both figuratively and literally) Anakin. Luke is different, even if he received some training from Obi-Wan and Yoda.
Stark wrote:I could even have seen him largely turning his back on the past (as he does in the film) in order to focus on helping the galaxy and the people in it, rather than resurrecting a dead fossilised order of which he knows nothing and has no attachment to. But then, it's not the 80s and we're not desperate for MORE STAR WARS, anything MORE STAR WARS.
Yeah, I wouldn't see him consciously going out in search of other potential Jedi to train, to resurrect the Order (aside from possibly Leia). He would just train people if they came to him, and even then it would be like he was with Yoda - they come and go when they believe it's time.
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Re: Disney to acquire Lucasfilm

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2013-01-29 04:40am

Regardless of where he teaches his students, I expect he'd ditch teaching infants and teach older people, since that's how he was trained.

I don't see any conflict between my views on Luke marrying and your idea of Luke as a wandering teacher.

And Stark, I am not supporting derivative stories. And I don't give a shit about most of the EU. This is mainly about what makes sense to me due to the films. Note that the Jedi Order still existing does not mean it will be exactly the same as the traditional Jedi Order.

Though I'll concede that Luke may or may not be part of the previous Jedi Order.

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Re: Disney to acquire Lucasfilm

Post by jollyreaper » 2013-01-29 06:53am

It's entirely possible to tell new, good stories in the Star Wars universe. People don't believe it because it hasn't happened much.

The EU foolishness usually revolved around trying to recreate the stakes of the original films while inserting unbelievable hyper-melodrama.

In broad strokes, I would imagine post-ROTJ Luke would have done some wandering and adventuring as he decided what to do about the whole Jedi thing. He's the last. Should it die with him? Could he rebuild the Order? Should he? This would be the Lone Jedi era, last of his kind, and would correspond with the post-war reconstruction.

He finally finds the answers he needs for himself and decides to found an order along with disciples he picked up along the way. An order, not the Jedi order. And if he found a wife during the wandering, she's here with him.

There's nothing wrong with Han marrying Leia and he could be invaluable as a high-level troubleshooter. He's not cut out for days around the negotiating table but he knows a good con when he sees it. And there will be a lot of graft in a young government taking over an evil empire.

Their kids would be the right age to visit Luke's school which would be on Coruscant. The adventures would remain about holding the new republic together at the borders and preserving civilization, no reborn emperors, no astronomical body-destroying super weapons, no giant invasions from beyond the galaxy, no reborn emperor. The border wars could be with imperial warlords leftover from palpatine's era and the fighting could be intense but it's not threatening the republic.

The thing the EU writers forgot is that the Star Wars arc is supposed to be heroes put in danger, all might seem lost but then there is a resounding victory. Good triumphs over evil. EU seems to embrace cyclic history with the sith always returning and every victory over them tasting of ashes and the only reason why there's a time of peace to rebuild is so another sith can smash everything down again. The optimism that should be a central theme is replaced by grimdark.

I think that sort of theme works in other stories but it misses what Star Wars was doing. It'd be like making Star Trek stories that deny the human potential for greatness and making a new human condition minus the bad stuff, exchanging "humans are neat" for "humans are shit" and we will never learn from our mistakes, never get better, are evil and monstrous. Again, could work somewhere else but that ain't Trek.

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Re: Disney to acquire Lucasfilm

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2013-01-29 07:11am

Some of that sounds good. However, I'd rather not have more Imperial villains.

Han would be good as either the head of the New Republic's special forces (he lead the commando team on Endor) or as the head of a law enforcement organization (using his knowledge of smuggling to catch criminals).

I'd also like to see Lando get a bigger role, either as a general or a businessman. I can also see him becoming a politician.

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Re: Disney to acquire Lucasfilm

Post by jollyreaper » 2013-01-29 08:11am

I am just throwing out ideas. Naturally, they are not comprehensive.

Lando struck me as a perfect ambassador at large. Gives him reasons to get into sticky situations. Likewise, Han as troubleshooter will be uncovering things. As the head of an agency, not as much. But a new army and new government can be informal. Bringing him in rotj as a general is actually realistic. Rebel groups will mint command officers in a hurry without red tape. Show up at Washington's camp with a volunteer force you raised yourself, you're now a captain.

It would be interesting to have imperial officers with a good argument or the new republic goes in to stop a rebellion against a loyal corporate supporter only to realize the rebels have legitimate grievances.

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Re: Disney to acquire Lucasfilm

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2013-01-29 05:27pm

A rebel army might be informal to a degree, but it would probably become less so once its established a government.

Lando would do well in the role you described though.

Seeing some less evil Imperials is well and fine, but I'm worried about going too far down the flawed corrupt New Republic route the EU evidently took a lot of the time. Cynical Star Wars should not be.

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Re: Disney to acquire Lucasfilm

Post by Guardsman Bass » 2013-01-29 08:01pm

They'll want to do something that lets them show space battles and lightsaber action, especially since they're now heavily focused on selling it to a broader international audience. I'm not sure how much room that leaves for more politically interesting Star Wars stories, or whether the fans will want it (flack was direct at the prequels for not having the whole "obvious black hat villain" thing that the OT had).

My guess is that we'll get a "coming of age Jedi" story, with a kid from one of the main characters.
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Re: Disney to acquire Lucasfilm

Post by Stark » 2013-01-29 08:06pm

Maybe they'll make it topical with the rebels setting up new administrations in hostile areas and having to repress insurgencies and create green zones and the like.

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Re: Disney to acquire Lucasfilm

Post by Darksider » 2013-01-29 08:08pm

Stark wrote:Maybe they'll make it topical with the rebels setting up new administrations in hostile areas and having to repress insurgencies and create green zones and the like.
Don't even joke.
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Re: Disney to acquire Lucasfilm

Post by Guardsman Bass » 2013-01-29 08:09pm

Stark wrote:Maybe they'll make it topical with the rebels setting up new administrations in hostile areas and having to repress insurgencies and create green zones and the like.
I SEE WHAT YOU DID THERE, STRAK. :lol:
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