Death Star explosions

[Boeing 757]

Hey, all,

A thought crossed my mind lately pertaining to the magnitude of the Death Star explosions as witnessed at the end of ANH and ROTJ.



Thanks to Curtis Saxton's long-established estimates, we know that in order for the Death Star to have blown up Alderaan as it seemingly did, its superlaser must be capable of unleashing energy on the scale of 1e38 joules. Obviously, this is a huge amount of energy produced in a short time, equal to the power output of millions of suns as I recall.

So my question naturally boils down to this: shouldn't we have seen a much, MUCH bigger explosion than what we got in episodes four and six? I realize that better men than I have tried to explain away the non-occurance of the Endor holocaust, but the ultimate mystery now for me is how were Yavin and Endor still even there when the Death Stars blew up?

[Sea Skimmer]

Why assume a reactor self destructing must released similar energy to the maximum burst output of said reactor? Most of the fuel mass may simply be blown apart without being converted to energy and much of the energy that was released would be expended ripping apart the station itself. Shots from the superlaser may also require storing up energy in the superlaser assembly itself, leaving peak reactor output much lower. The Death Star 2 was only blowing up rebel cruisers nothing like the size of a planet, it may have been producing nothing like the energy of the Death Star 1 Alderaan shot to do so, indeed in its incomplete state it might not even be capable of doing so, nor fully fueled.

Another big problem for Endor would simply be the mass of the station. That HAS to either be vaporized, which would require immense amounts of energy, or its going to be raining down in massive pieces. Its possible the rebels were just able to stop the latter from happening with turbolaser fire and tractor beams.

[Boeing 757]

Why assume a reactor self destructing must released similar energy to the maximum burst output of said reactor? Most of the fuel mass may simply be blown apart without being converted to energy and much of the energy that was released would be expended ripping apart the station itself. Shots from the superlaser may also require storing up energy in the superlaser assembly itself, leaving peak reactor output much lower.

The thought had occurred to me passingly, but I have to admit that I thought most of the fuel would have gone up too along with the Death Star. It's not really within my field of expertise. Is there any way that I could determine how much of the fuel source would be left over if I wanted to?

The Death Star 2 was only blowing up rebel cruisers nothing like the size of a planet, it may have been producing nothing like the energy of the Death Star 1 Alderaan shot to do so, indeed in its incomplete state it might not even be capable of doing so, nor fully fueled.

I believe Palpatine gave Moff Jerjerrod orders to blow up Endor in case that the shield was brought down...as per the ROTJ novel. Moreover, Palpatine did say the station was fully operational...I take it that he was referring to the superlaser.

[atg]

, but the ultimate mystery now for me is how were Yavin and Endor still even there when the Death Stars blew up?

When the Death Star blew up Alderaan it also pumped the energy directly into the planet. When the Death Star explodes, assuming it releases the same energy, that energy is being spread out all around as the explosion isn't in one direction.

Kinda like how the sun outputs a massive amount of energy but the earth only receives a tiny fraction.

[Captain Seafort]

Another big problem for Endor would simply be the mass of the station. That HAS to either be vaporized, which would require immense amounts of energy, or its going to be raining down in massive pieces. Its possible the rebels were just able to stop the latter from happening with turbolaser fire and tractor beams.

Or the planetary shield stopped it. Whether that's because the shield was a) unaffected by the destruction of the DS shield or b) it was rapidly restored is anyone's guess. I'd lean towards b) because of the novel mentioning the planetary shield going down. Maybe it just tripped the circuit breakers and the Imps were able to reset them.

[Darth Tedious]

There's that whole thing in the DS novel about the explosion opening a rift into hyperspace
I think it was intended to explain the stupid Praxis ring in the SE (and Vader's glove ending up on the other side of the galaxy LOL)
But it could also explain the lack of a bigger explosion
If most of the explosion got sucked into hyperspace instead

[Boeing 757]

There's that whole thing in the DS novel about the explosion opening a rift into hyperspace
I think it was intended to explain the stupid Praxis ring in the SE (and Vader's glove ending up on the other side of the galaxy LOL)
But it could also explain the lack of a bigger explosion
If most of the explosion got sucked into hyperspace instead

Does this come from an actual novel or game source material? It sounds like something that could have been written into a Star Trek episode.

[Batman]

The phrase 'DS novel' predisposes me to believe that's in reference to the novel 'Death Star', though I haven't read that one (I sort of gave up on the Wars EU partway through the YV idiocy).

[Havok]

Could be DarkSaber... I think that was a novel title.

[Batman]

Darksaber, however, had jack all to do with the original Death Star. And thank you so much for reminding me I actually read that. Alfred?
I'm afraid we got rid of the transmogrifier batarangs quite a while ago, Master Bruce.
Typical.

[Connor MacLeod]

I wonder if Darth Tedious is referring to the bit in the Death STar novel where the Death Star's superlaser supposedly dumped a big chunk of the planet's mass into hyperspace or something (or was supposed to have done so.)

Or he might be confusing it with that stuff from 'Glove of Darth Vader' where the DS2's explosion supposedly created some sort of hyperspace 'rift/worhmole/plot device' to hurl Vader's indestructible magic glove across the galaxy, or something.

As far as the 'problems' with the Death STar explosions go, they will depend entirely on how one views the Death STar as working (especially pertaining to the fuel supply issue - there never really has been a consensus about this) and what actual numbers you bring into the board (As far as the Endor Holocaust goes, I've gone on to believe that the fact you have those fuckoff huge pieces of debris and/or vaporized material plunging towards the planet at hyper-velocities from a few thousand kilometres is a non-trivial problem within the movie, but that's just me.)

[PainRack]

There's that whole thing in the DS novel about the explosion opening a rift into hyperspace
I think it was intended to explain the stupid Praxis ring in the SE (and Vader's glove ending up on the other side of the galaxy LOL)
But it could also explain the lack of a bigger explosion
If most of the explosion got sucked into hyperspace instead

Does this come from an actual novel or game source material? It sounds like something that could have been written into a Star Trek episode.

Its from Glove of Darth Vader, a kiddie book series. However, the hyperspace ring explosion was taken WAY too seriously by too many people..

[Havok]

I just didn't like it because Star Trek had already done it.

[Darth Tedious]

I just didn't like it because Star Trek had already done it.

Coneheads did it, too.

I was referring to how the hyperspace fluff in the Death Star novel, the stupid Praxis Ring and the even stupider Glove of Vader things all tie up rather nicely (which is rare for the EU)
I think it was a well-played retcon
Plus it may explain the lack of massive explosion the OP was curious about.

[PainRack]

It was a very well done retcon. The problem is with the material the retcon was introduced in

[Connor MacLeod]

I don't mind so much the 'dump into hyperspace' bit. It's basically a SW 'disintegration' type excuse - the matter gets transformed into something relatively harmless, and that could be accepted (even to the point of chain reaction, I suppose.)

Problem is how it's always assumed to be a zero-energy (or energy-cheap) process, despite the massive amount of evidence to the contrary. Plus there's also the fact that only some of the mass was dumped into hyperspace - a not-inconsiderable amount remained, and we still see debris.

I'm still not convinced that the planar ring can be explained away by waving the hyprespace wand though - the ring itself is not FTL, and we've never gotten planar ring effects with any other sort of hyperspace activity that immediately comes to mind, so there you go. (If it were related to the weapon, you'd think any target hit would exhibit the effect - superlasers are related to at least some kinds of blasters and turbolasers and lasers, remember.)

Glove of Darth Vader however remains a problem no matter what one says because you have to assume a hyperdrive works or can spontaneously create wormholes even as it is blown up - we know its possible to make 'wormholes' through hyperspace, but you typically need something to create the entry and exit point (EG Gree Hypergates) the same way you need a hyperdrive to both enter and exit hyperspace (CF Krytos Trap and hyperspace bombing.) Far simpler to assume its a fake glove really. It's not like the veracity of the glove affects the story in any significant way - perception is what mattered there.

[Simon_Jester]

The planar ring could just be a weird side effect of the exploding reactor channeling a bigger chunk of its energy out along the equator. If there's a weakness in the structure there, or if the reactor is itself some kind of ring-shaped construct, you'd expect that.

Or the planetary shield stopped it. Whether that's because the shield was a) unaffected by the destruction of the DS shield or b) it was rapidly restored is anyone's guess. I'd lean towards b) because of the novel mentioning the planetary shield going down. Maybe it just tripped the circuit breakers and the Imps were able to reset them.

Didn't they blow the shield generator into itty bitty little pieces?

[Captain Seafort]

Or the planetary shield stopped it. Whether that's because the shield was a) unaffected by the destruction of the DS shield or b) it was rapidly restored is anyone's guess. I'd lean towards b) because of the novel mentioning the planetary shield going down. Maybe it just tripped the circuit breakers and the Imps were able to reset them.

Didn't they blow the shield generator into itty bitty little pieces?

They blew a shield generator into itty bitty little pieces. My suggestion is that that generator was specifically responsible for the shield projected around the DS, and may have been part of the network of generators all round the planet.

[Connor MacLeod]

They blew a projector to itty bitty pieces, at least that we saw onscreen. Whether that took the generator with it is another story.

And since it's a full planetary shield (as per the ROTJ novelization.) Odds are that means that its multiple shield generators AND projectors in a network - planetary shields tend to be big on redundancy and coverage for that reason, so taking out one generator/projector (The one concerned with the DS2) would not neccesarily expose the entire planet.

There is another factor as well - there was a planetary repulsor holding the DS2 up in its artificially low orbit (at least at one point in the construction) and whether or not that was destroyed in the Rebel attack is never specified to my memory.

Really the why is almost besides the point. The fact the Han and Leia did not die in a nuclear fireball whislst kissing (which may be a slight exaggeration for dramatic effect - Its been awhile since I ran a timing of that scene lol) as multimegaton hypervelocity debris struck the planet, and the Rebels held their celebration rather than trying to get the fuck out of dodge (made even better/worse by the novelization and/or radio drama IIRC indicating that the party took place hours later after the DS2's destruction.)

[Batman]

WRT the shockwave-weren't the DS's sublight engines supposedly arranged around its equator, and if so, might they have figured into why this visually impressive but really annoying WRT having to explain what the hell it was in-universe shockwave was?

[Boeing 757]

IIRC, aren't the sublight engines located near the equatorial trench? The shockwave seems to be nearly aligned with the "south-north" poles of the DS1. My guess is that it might have something to do with thermodynamic imbalances in the core, ultimately, but I can't discount technobabble explanations like the hyperspace rift, either.

[Batman]

Um that's why I said the engines were arranged around the equator? But yeah, misremembered the alignment of that stupid shockwave effect, my bad.

[Connor MacLeod]

WRT the shockwave-weren't the DS's sublight engines supposedly arranged around its equator, and if so, might they have figured into why this visually impressive but really annoying WRT having to explain what the hell it was in-universe shockwave was?

Doesn't work, since the shockwave is perpendicular to the engine strip wrapping around the DS's equator. It also wouldn't explain the shockwave we see at Alderaan, unless we're to assume SW planets routinely have propulsion systems attached.

[fordlltwm]

WRT the shockwave-weren't the DS's sublight engines supposedly arranged around its equator, and if so, might they have figured into why this visually impressive but really annoying WRT having to explain what the hell it was in-universe shockwave was?

Doesn't work, since the shockwave is perpendicular to the engine strip wrapping around the DS's equator. It also wouldn't explain the shockwave we see at Alderaan, unless we're to assume SW planets routinely have propulsion systems attached.

Well some of them do the Corellian system for example

[aussiemuscle308]

Why assume a reactor self destructing must released similar energy to the maximum burst output of said reactor?

To do that you have to destroy the superlaser dish itself, just at the point of firing, like in Independence Day (plane hits BFG just as it's firing).