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 Post subject: Christians outraged by gay Jedi PostPosted: 2012-02-07 08:27am
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From here.
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FORGET Death Stars and the dark side - the biggest threat in the Star Wars universe is, apparently, homosexuality.

US Christian group the Family Research Council has hit out at the developers of video game Star Wars: The Old Republic for allowing game characters to have same-sex relationships.

Bioware has recently published a same-sex romance component update for the multiplayer online game after receiving complaints from gamers.

The decision has caused outrage after BioWare said in 2009 that “gay” and “lesbian” don't exist in the Star Wars universe.

Tony Perkins of the Family Research Council in Washington said Star Wars gamers have “already gone to the dark side”.

“In a new Star Wars game, the biggest threat to the empire may be homosexual activists!” Mr Perkins wrote on the organisations website.

“Since the announcement, homosexuals have been celebrating the news, but parents sure aren't. Their kids will be exposed to this Star Warped way of thinking.

“You can join them by logging on and speaking up. It's time to show companies who the Force is really with!”

Many gamers posted on the Star Wars: The Old Republic that they welcome the new update.

“Bioware has a long history of having romance-able companions for both heterosexual and homosexual preferences, and there is absolutely no reason for them to not do the same here,” a gamer using the character Auricelia wrote.

Gamer Voiicu said: "If I want to be gay on one toon and straight on another then thats my prerogative. There never should have been a discrimination between the two in the first place."

Read more: http://www.news.com.au/technology/gamin ... z1lhKwhczc

Here's the so-called Family Research Council's own page on the matter (some of which is quoted above already), "Rebel Fleet Surrenders to Gay Empire".

But really? Imaginary peoples in a Galaxy Far, Far Away (who are inevitably going to hell for being godless space wizards anyway) aren't allowed to be gay?

(Perhaps this should have gone in N&P, mods, your call.)



"Darth Tedious just showed why women can go anywhere they want because they are, in effect, mobile kitchens." - RazorOutlaw

"That could never happen because super computers." - Stark

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 Post subject: Re: Christians outraged by gay Jedi PostPosted: 2012-02-07 09:40am
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Darth Tedious wrote:
But really? Imaginary peoples in a Galaxy Far, Far Away (who are inevitably going to hell for being godless space wizards anyway) aren't allowed to be gay?

That seems pretty close to canon, unfortunately. The only examples I can think of are Juhani and a couple that were one of Travis's attempts to show how enlightened her Mandalores were.

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 Post subject: Re: Christians outraged by gay Jedi PostPosted: 2012-02-07 10:15am
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Grumman wrote:
Darth Tedious wrote:
But really? Imaginary peoples in a Galaxy Far, Far Away (who are inevitably going to hell for being godless space wizards anyway) aren't allowed to be gay?

That seems pretty close to canon, unfortunately. The only examples I can think of are Juhani and a couple that were one of Travis's attempts to show how enlightened her Mandalores were.

I wouldn't even think canon is much of an issue here- MMO PC's are non-canon characters anyway, aren't they?

I was referring to how ridiculous the outrage is. "We can't allow gay characters in Star Wars!"

That's really Uncle George's call to make. Even Bioware were overstepping themselves when they first announced that there were simply no gay characters in-universe (even if the only canonical couple was a Travissty).



"Darth Tedious just showed why women can go anywhere they want because they are, in effect, mobile kitchens." - RazorOutlaw

"That could never happen because super computers." - Stark

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 Post subject: Re: Christians outraged by gay Jedi PostPosted: 2012-02-07 12:02pm
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Hmm, I wonder if this is the same group that was outraged by the lesbian, alien sex in Mass Effect (also by BioWare obviously) or a different one that got outraged this time.

Hmm, just checked Wikipedia's page on these guys (the FRC was founded by James Dobson btw), one of their fellows claimed

Quote:
"criminal sanctions against homosexual behavior" should be enforced


and the South Poverty Law Center lists them as a hate group. So yeah, chalk it up to just another religious group doing its best to stamp out the gay wherever they find it.



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 Post subject: Re: Christians outraged by gay Jedi PostPosted: 2012-02-07 06:29pm
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Showing love, compassion and forgiveness seems like such a strange idea. If only their holy book commanded them to do so.



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 Post subject: Re: Christians outraged by gay Jedi PostPosted: 2012-02-07 06:37pm
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Is Star Wars really that low on the gay characters? I thought the EU had enough material to be more diverse than that?



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 Post subject: Re: Christians outraged by gay Jedi PostPosted: 2012-02-07 07:17pm
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dworkin wrote:
Showing love, compassion and forgiveness seems like such a strange idea. If only their holy book commanded them to do so.


Strange, having read that holy book extensively, it does indeed command them to do so, on several occasions in fact.
Fascinating that they would choose to ignore something so important.



"It is just such a question as has been left times out of mind in this Old World to the decision of the sword. The sword will be the arbitrator in the New World too; but the event teaches us plainly enough that Republics and Democracies enjoy no exemption from the passions and follies of humanity."
~ The London Times May 30, 1861.
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 Post subject: Re: Christians outraged by gay Jedi PostPosted: 2012-02-07 07:45pm
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Ignoring parts of it is the only way to follow the bible because the thing is self-contradictory as hell. You simply can't obey it in its entirety because that would require you following mutually exclusive commandments. Unsurprisingly, people over time decided to pick and choose the parts they liked and sort of ignore the rest. Welcome to the human race.



'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kids with issues. Lots of issues.'
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'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'

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 Post subject: Re: Christians outraged by gay Jedi PostPosted: 2012-02-07 08:19pm
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Batman wrote:
Ignoring parts of it is the only way to follow the bible because the thing is self-contradictory as hell. You simply can't obey it in its entirety because that would require you following mutually exclusive commandments. Unsurprisingly, people over time decided to pick and choose the parts they liked and sort of ignore the rest. Welcome to the human race.
This isn't entirely true.
The Jehova's Witnesses seem to dedicate great effort into cross-referencing the Bible and attempting to follow it all, it seems.

Maybe somewhere in there God states his canon policy so they know which contradictions are retconned and which take precedence... :lol:



"Darth Tedious just showed why women can go anywhere they want because they are, in effect, mobile kitchens." - RazorOutlaw

"That could never happen because super computers." - Stark

"Don't go there girl! Talk to the VTOL cause the glass canopy ain't listening!" - Shroomy

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 Post subject: Re: Christians outraged by gay Jedi PostPosted: 2012-02-07 08:46pm
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Darth Tedious wrote:
I wouldn't even think canon is much of an issue here- MMO PC's are non-canon characters anyway, aren't they?

TOR isn't like other MMOs, in this respect. In other MMOs each player is their own different character, in TOR every player is playing the story of a single character. It's a lot like KotOR, there's a lot of different Revans created by the players, but only the story played as a male totally lightsided and romanced Bastilla is canon. So while you can play a darkside Jedi Knight, your personal playthrough is not going to be the playthrough that is considered the canon one. As such there's unlikely to be a canon gay Jedi in TOR, since romance is frowned upon in Jedi in TOR.



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Why would you celebrate the slowly tightening grip of Death?~Hans Beinholt, German Ambassador to the UN, on Children's Birthday Parties.
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 Post subject: Re: Christians outraged by gay Jedi PostPosted: 2012-02-08 02:00am
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General Schatten wrote:
Darth Tedious wrote:
I wouldn't even think canon is much of an issue here- MMO PC's are non-canon characters anyway, aren't they?

TOR isn't like other MMOs, in this respect. In other MMOs each player is their own different character, in TOR every player is playing the story of a single character. It's a lot like KotOR, there's a lot of different Revans created by the players, but only the story played as a male totally lightsided and romanced Bastilla is canon. So while you can play a darkside Jedi Knight, your personal playthrough is not going to be the playthrough that is considered the canon one. As such there's unlikely to be a canon gay Jedi in TOR, since romance is frowned upon in Jedi in TOR.

:?: Given that romantic options would be up to the individual player (I assume), no particular romance (unless it is an integral part of the story) could really be canon- be it gay, straight or otherwise?



"Darth Tedious just showed why women can go anywhere they want because they are, in effect, mobile kitchens." - RazorOutlaw

"That could never happen because super computers." - Stark

"Don't go there girl! Talk to the VTOL cause the glass canopy ain't listening!" - Shroomy

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 Post subject: Re: Christians outraged by gay Jedi PostPosted: 2012-02-08 03:30am
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Darth Tedious wrote:
:?: Given that romantic options would be up to the individual player (I assume), no particular romance (unless it is an integral part of the story) could really be canon- be it gay, straight or otherwise?

That's up to Bioware. Remember than in KotOR the canon playthrough had Revan hooking up with Bastilla which is ultimately how we get Satele Shan. The Jedi are unlikely to have any canon romances, though. The rest depends on what Bioware determines the "canon character's" gender to be. Frankly the only likely romance I can think of is the Sith Warrior.



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Why would you celebrate the slowly tightening grip of Death?~Hans Beinholt, German Ambassador to the UN, on Children's Birthday Parties.
"When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up." -C.S. Lewis


Last edited by General Schatten on 2012-02-08 03:32am, edited 2 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Christians outraged by gay Jedi PostPosted: 2012-02-08 09:43am
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General Schatten wrote:
Frankly the only likely romance I can think of is the Sith Warrior.

that being "half done" so to speak thanks to Darth Malgus and that blue skinned twi'lek in the revenge trailer (the twi'lek being his lover or wife it's not quite clear but she's been called both).

As for the OP, tbh think it's just some cristian nutcases trying to find something to be mad at, if it wasn't SWTOR it would be something else. As for my personal feeling about homosexual relationships in TOR, well it really depends on how they're treated if it's like the straight romances with no extra attention put in the "gayness" of it, I'm fine with it, but if they start to point constantly point out the same-sex unions to show how "progressive" they are that's a problem.

Even though I'm straight myself, I've felt that an advanced culture like the Galactic Republic (and to degree the Sith Empire) should have evolved beond homophobia and lets face it the straight romance option for the female trooper is a cathar, so it's would seem rather odd that fucking an alien a-ok but heaven help you if you deside to have sex to the same gendered member of your own species.



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 Post subject: Re: Christians outraged by gay Jedi PostPosted: 2012-02-08 11:48am
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Lord Revan wrote:
that being "half done" so to speak thanks to Darth Malgus and that blue skinned twi'lek in the revenge trailer (the twi'lek being his lover or wife it's not quite clear but she's been called both).

No, Malgus is a separate character from the Sith Warrior you play as you interact with Malgus quite a few times as you level. I'm talking about Jaesa Willsaam. The Sith Warrior's class story doesn't hold up as well if you play it 100% lightside and Vette's not very happy when you go about killing people on a whim. On the other hand the first half of the first act involves gathering intelligence on Jaesa, the second half drawing her out, and the finale of the first act is you tempting her over to the dark side.



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Why would you celebrate the slowly tightening grip of Death?~Hans Beinholt, German Ambassador to the UN, on Children's Birthday Parties.
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 Post subject: Re: Christians outraged by gay Jedi PostPosted: 2012-02-08 08:46pm
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General Schatten wrote:
Lord Revan wrote:
that being "half done" so to speak thanks to Darth Malgus and that blue skinned twi'lek in the revenge trailer (the twi'lek being his lover or wife it's not quite clear but she's been called both).

No, Malgus is a separate character from the Sith Warrior you play as you interact with Malgus quite a few times as you level. I'm talking about Jaesa Willsaam. The Sith Warrior's class story doesn't hold up as well if you play it 100% lightside and Vette's not very happy when you go about killing people on a whim. On the other hand the first half of the first act involves gathering intelligence on Jaesa, the second half drawing her out, and the finale of the first act is you tempting her over to the dark side.

I know Darth Malgus is a different character, but his relation with that twi'lek (Elena was her name I think) seems to suggest, a warrior/vette romance isn't impossible and tbh I've not had major problems with Vette's affection so far and I'm mostly darkside (I've picked 1 or 2 lightside options but that's it) but knowing to pick the options Vette likes when there's no light/dark points and gifts help, granted I've gotten only to early chapter 1 on my warrior (my main being my Inquisitor).

what I was referring was more to a thematic similarity (a human (well cyborg) Sith Lord in a romantic relationship with an alien who was probably at least orginally a slave) then to imply that Malgus and the Sith warrior character was one and the same, sorry if I wasn't clear enough.



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Oh wait, that's marijuana..."Einhander Sn0m4n

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 Post subject: Re: Christians outraged by gay Jedi PostPosted: 2012-02-08 10:25pm
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Lord Revan wrote:
General Schatten wrote:
Lord Revan wrote:
that being "half done" so to speak thanks to Darth Malgus and that blue skinned twi'lek in the revenge trailer (the twi'lek being his lover or wife it's not quite clear but she's been called both).

No, Malgus is a separate character from the Sith Warrior you play as you interact with Malgus quite a few times as you level. I'm talking about Jaesa Willsaam. The Sith Warrior's class story doesn't hold up as well if you play it 100% lightside and Vette's not very happy when you go about killing people on a whim. On the other hand the first half of the first act involves gathering intelligence on Jaesa, the second half drawing her out, and the finale of the first act is you tempting her over to the dark side.

I know Darth Malgus is a different character, but his relation with that twi'lek (Elena was her name I think) seems to suggest, a warrior/vette romance isn't impossible and tbh I've not had major problems with Vette's affection so far and I'm mostly darkside (I've picked 1 or 2 lightside options but that's it) but knowing to pick the options Vette likes when there's no light/dark points and gifts help, granted I've gotten only to early chapter 1 on my warrior (my main being my Inquisitor).

Only Chapter 1? Yeah, you're not at the part where grinding affection for Vette becomes a pain in the ass yet. What I'm saying, though, is that Jaesa seems to be far more important to the character of the Sith Warrior than Vette is.



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Why would you celebrate the slowly tightening grip of Death?~Hans Beinholt, German Ambassador to the UN, on Children's Birthday Parties.
"When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up." -C.S. Lewis

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 Post subject: Re: Christians outraged by gay Jedi PostPosted: 2012-02-10 12:18pm
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It seems to be that interspecies loving is fine and dandy so long as it's between man and woman, but man-man/woman-woman love is bad...well woman-woman love is slightly less bad than man-man love because *everyone* loves lesbians. :P



[quote=]Put book front and center. He's our friend, we should honour him. Kaylee, find that kid who's taking a dirt-nap with baby Jesus. We need a hood ornment. Jayne! Try not to steal too much of their sh*t![/quote]

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 Post subject: Re: Christians outraged by gay Jedi PostPosted: 2012-02-10 07:35pm
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edaw1982 wrote:
It seems to be that interspecies loving is fine and dandy so long as it's between man and woman, but man-man/woman-woman love is bad...well woman-woman love is slightly less bad than man-man love because *everyone* loves lesbians. :P

It reminds me of that old joke- a man is charged with bestiality, and while hearing his case, the judge asks if it was a ram or a ewe he 'assaulted'.
The man says, "Of course it was a ewe! What do you think I am, some kind of pervert?!?"



"Darth Tedious just showed why women can go anywhere they want because they are, in effect, mobile kitchens." - RazorOutlaw

"That could never happen because super computers." - Stark

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 Post subject: Re: Christians outraged by gay Jedi PostPosted: 2012-02-10 08:09pm
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Aren't these fundies about 35 years late? C-3PO is stereotypically gay right out of Central Casting.



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 Post subject: Re: Christians outraged by gay Jedi PostPosted: 2012-02-14 11:18am
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Yeah those fundies are little late to the party.
It's not like we haven't known 3PO and R2 aren't bickering like an old married couple.



[quote=]Put book front and center. He's our friend, we should honour him. Kaylee, find that kid who's taking a dirt-nap with baby Jesus. We need a hood ornment. Jayne! Try not to steal too much of their sh*t![/quote]

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 Post subject: Re: Christians outraged by gay Jedi PostPosted: 2012-02-24 08:49pm
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Oh no!! the world is doomed... where the death star when you need it to cleans the universe?



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 Post subject: Re: Christians outraged by gay Jedi PostPosted: 2012-02-24 09:00pm
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Didn't anybody tell you? They both got blown up by those pesky rebels a long time ago, in a galaxy far far away :P



'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kids with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'

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 Post subject: Re: Christians outraged by gay Jedi PostPosted: 2012-02-24 09:47pm
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Bastards!

We need a giant metal death sphere with funky green death ray now more than ever.



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 Post subject: Re: Christians outraged by gay Jedi PostPosted: 2012-02-25 05:39am
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Why would there even be gay Jedi though? Don't Jedi allegedly 'forswear all emotional attachments'? And would this even be an equal rights issue for this futuristic universe? Their medical technology must have advanced to the point where you'll be able to switch your sexual orientation with the flick of a switch. Advanced pre-screening at birth to allow for modification of any aberrant qualities of this nature.

Homosexuality doesn't really make sense in a futuristic setting, unless of course it would be part of some cultural institution.

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 Post subject: Re: Christians outraged by gay Jedi PostPosted: 2012-02-25 12:48pm
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Cowl wrote:
Why would there even be gay Jedi though? Don't Jedi allegedly 'forswear all emotional attachments'? And would this even be an equal rights issue for this futuristic universe? Their medical technology must have advanced to the point where you'll be able to switch your sexual orientation with the flick of a switch. Advanced pre-screening at birth to allow for modification of any aberrant qualities of this nature.


How exactly do you come to this conclusion? Why would sex changes be "easy" in SW?

Homosexuality doesn't really make sense in a futuristic setting, unless of course it would be part of some cultural institution.[/quote]

Explain. Carefully.



"I could be bounded in a nutshell and count myself a king of infinite space, were it not that I have bad dreams" - Hamlet

"Bones' remedies for problems seems to revolve around giving his patients a prescription of heavy drugs, booze, or taking them to strip clubs. He is either insane, a drug addict, or the best damn Doctor in Starfleet!" - SFDebris

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