Fate of the Jedi-any point?

[Ahriman238]

The first EU book I ever picked up was 'Dark Force Rising,' the second book of the Thrawn trilogy and it blew me away, so much I so I had to find the first and last books and started me on a sort of Star Wars binge.

I read all or almost all of the books leading up to and including NJO. I read the Killik books and tried, I really did try, the Legacy of the Force books which I lost interest in and abandoned halfway thorugh. The last few years have done a ton to damage my faith in the franchise, so for once I'll ask:

Is there any point at all in picking up the Fate of the Jedi? From what I understand, Daala is now in charge, the Jedi are still feeling a public backlash over another of their own going dark side, and some sort of cosmic horror in a Centerpoint-like prison is driving Jedi mad or controlling them somehow?

[KhorneFlakes]

I don't think there was ever a point to that book or much of LOTF.

I still hate most of NJO that I desire to simply forget it's existence. The Yuuzhan Vong are among my most greatly hated parts of the series - along with what it led to.

Plus the fact that the Vong were not EXTERMINATED ENTIRELY for keeping their SOCIOPATHIC AND XENOPHOBIC SOCIETY and, even after the Yuuzhies got killfucked by the Galactic Alliance of Stupid People.

All they did was tell the Vong to shut the fuck up and disband their military. All that happened was that the Vong were removed as a credible threat, while they go to keep their fucked up society. Gee - how fucking smart, (not) all you did was force them into a truce. You, as far as they are concerned, are still the enemy.

The Vong I hate not just for their biowank, but also because they remained the same sociopathic shits they were decades after they were defeated. All that changed was that they couldn't try to kill the fuck out of everything, and that would have never happened in the first place if the New republic wasn't so fucking dumb.

I also personally believe Jacen should be nailed to a wall and beaten with a rusty pipe for being a shitty character.

Simply put, I HATE the worst of the NJO, although I somewhat like the parts written by relatively good writers. If the entirety of NJO was good, I'd be happy. Unfortunately, it's mostly drowned in shit. Just as most of the EU is.

[Adam Reynolds]

Simply put, I HATE the worst of the NJO, although I somewhat like the parts written by relatively good writers. If the entirety of NJO was good, I'd be happy. Unfortunately, it's mostly drowned in shit. Just as most of the EU is.

In my opinion the bigger problem with that series, as well as all of the ones that follow it is that the while certain authors are quite good there are just as many bad authors as the rest of the series. Combined with this, unlike the earlier pre NJO EU or Clone Wars era, it is harder to simply ignore the works that are less well done and focus on the better written elements due to the more continuous narrative that is in play.

[Ahriman238]

The Vong I hate not just for their biowank, but also because they remained the same sociopathic shits they were decades after they were defeated. All that changed was that they couldn't try to kill the fuck out of everything, and that would have never happened in the first place if the New republic wasn't so fucking dumb.

They were supposedly confined to Zonoma Sekot until they could learn to be productive members of a galactic community. Though as I recall, at the end of 'Undying Force' there were plenty of pockets of Vong resistance all over the galaxy.

IIRC, they were originally only going to have Domain Shai be that way. All the Vong would share a culture and a religion, but only the Shai would really be fanatics about it. Then someone decided howling barbarians IN SPACE! was too cool to use sparingly.

EDIT: The rest of the Vong would have been something like Nom Anor, perfectly committed to the conquest of the galaxy, but also willing to be pragmatic, even reasonable at times and a lot less attached to the idea of personal honor and glory.

[KhorneFlakes]

The Vong I hate not just for their biowank, but also because they remained the same sociopathic shits they were decades after they were defeated. All that changed was that they couldn't try to kill the fuck out of everything, and that would have never happened in the first place if the New republic wasn't so fucking dumb.

They were supposedly confined to Zonoma Sekot until they could learn to be productive members of a galactic community. Though as I recall, at the end of 'Undying Force' there were plenty of pockets of Vong resistance all over the galaxy.

IIRC, they were originally only going to have Domain Shai be that way. All the Vong would share a culture and a religion, but only the Shai would really be fanatics about it. Then someone decided howling barbarians IN SPACE! was too cool to use sparingly.

EDIT: The rest of the Vong would have been something like Nom Anor, perfectly committed to the conquest of the galaxy, but also willing to be pragmatic, even reasonable at times and a lot less attached to the idea of personal honor and glory.

And that's what I mean - they were all turned into sociopathic idiots by stupid writers. It's the main reson why I hate them, asides from BIOWANK.

[Luke Skywalker]

The first EU book I ever picked up was 'Dark Force Rising,' the second book of the Thrawn trilogy and it blew me away, so much I so I had to find the first and last books and started me on a sort of Star Wars binge.

I read all or almost all of the books leading up to and including NJO. I read the Killik books and tried, I really did try, the Legacy of the Force books which I lost interest in and abandoned halfway thorugh. The last few years have done a ton to damage my faith in the franchise, so for once I'll ask:

Is there any point at all in picking up the Fate of the Jedi? From what I understand, Daala is now in charge, the Jedi are still feeling a public backlash over another of their own going dark side, and some sort of cosmic horror in a Centerpoint-like prison is driving Jedi mad or controlling them somehow?

I enjoy Fate of the Jedi, but I enjoy even the Prequel movies in terms of entertainment, despite having more plot holes than you can shake a lightsaber out, because it's Star Wars.
Spoiler

The cosmic horror is Abeloth; Jedi who grew up in the Maw Shelter start to go insane and think that everybody else is some sort of imposter that kidnapped the real Luke/Leia/etc.

The Mandos get their assess kicked, and are portrayed as thoroughly evil.

Daala gets booted in Conviction, but is jailbreaked from a max security prison by Boba Fett due to the unmentioned stupid incompetency of the prison.

From a vs debate standpoint, the authors have little to no sense of scale.

Ben have a Luke-Mara style love side plot with a sith girl named Vestara.

Jag and Jaina get engaged.

[PREDATOR490]

Finished the EU at Unifying Force and have not read any book since. Anything after that point is equal parts shit and pointless.

The NJO is garbage but the sentiment behind it is supposedly the emergency of the New Order to compliment the New Republic. I see that as an effective end to ANY further attempts at EU.

Prologue: KOTOR, etc

Trilogy 1
The Fall of the Republic,
The Rise of the Empire,

Trilogy 2
The Rise of the Rebellion,
The Fall of the Empire,

Epilogue:
The Rise of the New Republic
The Rise of the New Jedi Order

Best option at that point is to either let the EU die or do a reboot and start again. Further stretching it out is simple stupidity and futil beating the horse for every last bit of life it has left.

[Eternal_Freedom]

In fairness to it, the Fate of the Jedi series has so far kept me entertained (note: I'm only up to the end of "Allies"). It has considerable advantages of being written by Christie Golden, Troy Denning and Aaron Allston, the last of whom is probably the best EU author. The other two aren't bad either.

They work well as books in general, and I find they work well as SW books. Certainly a shitload better than LOTF and most of NJO (Excepting of course the Rebel Dream/Rebel Stand pair, but those are made of awesome and written by Aaron Allston again). I would recommend people give them a try at least.

[Darth Yan]

i enjoyed fate of the jedi thus far; Vestara is a genuinely compelling character, and Abeloth is a threatening villain. Also, I didn't hate how the NJO ended; the vong didn't really keep their society for one; the shamed ones were finally granted equal rights, the weapons were destroyed and the gods were assumed to have abandoned them. Even if the vong kept the weapons they wouldn't have the will; why fight when the gods who you centred your lives around abandon you?

[Pelranius]

I don't think there was ever a point to that book or much of LOTF.

The Vong I hate not just for their biowank, but also because they remained the same sociopathic shits they were decades after they were defeated. All that changed was that they couldn't try to kill the fuck out of everything, and that would have never happened in the first place if the New republic wasn't so fucking dumb.

I also personally believe Jacen should be nailed to a wall and beaten with a rusty pipe for being a shitty character.

The Vong managed to start contributing positively after a century in the Legacy comics.

Agreed with the Jacen part.

[Luke Skywalker]

i enjoyed fate of the jedi thus far; Vestara is a genuinely compelling character, and Abeloth is a threatening villain. Also, I didn't hate how the NJO ended; the vong didn't really keep their society for one; the shamed ones were finally granted equal rights, the weapons were destroyed and the gods were assumed to have abandoned them. Even if the vong kept the weapons they wouldn't have the will; why fight when the gods who you centred your lives around abandon you?

It's interesting that the idea that their gods don't exist didn't even occur to them.

[JME2]

It's interesting that the idea that their gods don't exist didn't even occur to them.

You reminded me of one of my favorite moments from the NJO: Nom Anor realizing this in Destiny's Way.

Throughout the series, Nom's atheism is something he's concealed from the other Vong. He's used the religion to further his ambition. And yet, when's presented with proof that the Vong pantheon is a fabrication, he's utterly shocked.

He didn't believe them, but he never expected to be proven right.

[StarSword]

Apart from Millennium Falcon, which was fantastic, I pretty much stopped going deeper into the timeline after LOTF: Betrayal because I couldn't for the life of me understand why they decided to have another Skywalker turn Sith. (I would've expected Luke to pay better attention to things within his own family, if nothing else.) Plus, it pissed me off when they killed off Mara Jade Skywalker, Timothy Zahn's greatest creation.* I guess it's good that the Star Wars writers don't subscribe to the concept of "plot shields" for major characters, but...

You reminded me of one of my favorite moments from the NJO: Nom Anor realizing this in Destiny's Way.

Throughout the series, Nom's atheism is something he's concealed from the other Vong. He's used the religion to further his ambition. And yet, when's presented with proof that the Vong pantheon is a fabrication, he's utterly shocked.

He didn't believe them, but he never expected to be proven right.

I'm not disputing you, but I don't remember this scene.


* One of the guys over on DeviantART did a brilliant "in memoriam" for her.


Lost Love by AG88

[JME2]

I'm not disputing you, but I don't remember this scene.

It's after Nom follows Onimi to the secret think tank, when he discovers that the Eighth Cortex is empty.

Since the Eighth Cortex is supposed to contain knowledge left by the Gods and to be distributed by the Supreme Overlord, Nom realizes Shimmra's rule and the Gods are a sham.

Despite his cover atheism, it's something he nonetheless ever expected to have proven.

[StarSword]

Then Shimmra's rule was a sham twice over, since it was really Onimi pulling the strings the whole time.

[JME2]

Then Shimmra's rule was a sham twice over, since it was really Onimi pulling the strings the whole time.

True, but he didn't find that out until the climax of TUF.

That's a quieter, but still memorable moment for me: Nom's shock at realizing Onimi was in charge all along.