NecronLord wrote:Havok wrote:The EU is not to be believed. Kinda my point.
Again... the movies show this to be false. Vader is respected by every officer we see except one in the movies.
Admiral Ozzel shows no respect for his intuition. Piett and Needa are plainly terrified of him. If your definition of respect is 'doesn't talk back' that works. He has a working relationship with Tarkin, sure, but most of the named officers don't respect him nearly as much as they fear him.
Please. We have two scenes of Ozzel. One is him being mad at Piett and one where he is fully prepared to report to Vader and shows no fear or any cause for alarm until he starts getting choked. Ozzel's reaction does not show any indication that he thinks Vader is going to suddenly strangle him, and he is surely going to report exactly what Veers has just told Vader. He also makes a point to say that Ozzel has failed him for the last time, indicating some level of incompetence on the Admiral's part. Veers clearly knew he fucked up. I will give that Ozzel, may not go out of his way to show respect for Vader, but he shows no fear in confronting him.
Vader also clearly has far more than a 'working relationship' with Tarkin, your EU points that out on several occasions as well as ANH.
And Needa is not only plainly NOT terrified of Vader, he shows NO fear in bringing the news to Vader that his ship has lost the Falcon. Also bear in mind that Vader's pursuit of the Falcon is not Empire business, but Sith business, and is of a far greater matter and importance to Vader than probably anything else he has undertaken as he knows he is after his newly discovered son. Vader's emotions are not in a normal state as is made plainly clear in TESB and ROTJ.
As for his executing officers being overblown; he is only just called off in ANH, does two in in ESB, and in one deleted scene for RotJ was doing another in until he stated that he was acting on the Emperor's orders. If I were writing an EU story featuring Vader, I'd probably have him kill an Imperial officer at some point; it is a consistent pattern of behavior.
Note the way Tarkin reacts to the situation. He is clearly intrigued indicating this is not something that happens often or that he has even seen before. He also says "enough of
this" as if he is reprimanding two children. Is it wise to reprimand Vader and give him orders in the middle of choking an officer if it is something anyone can expect to happen to them?
And simply Motti's's open disdain for Vader shows that him killing officers all over the place is not something that happens. Would he be mocking Vader's "sorcerous ways" and "sad devotion to that ancient religion" if Vader were traveling around the fleet the last TWENTY YEARS force choking officers?
It is contradicted by the movies, except for one highly unique
That scene is neither unique, nor highly unique, it demonstrates Vader being quite prepared to murder an imperial admiral. There is another scene where he murders an imperial admiral, and one where an Imperial admiral expects to be murdered by him.
It most certainly is. Motti is openly mocking the Force, Vader and his Master and Motti's own Emperor. Find anything like that anywhere else in the movies OR your EU.
Also "Murder" is an interesting term to use. Vader is the second in command of a galactic Empire. I would imagine Vader is within his legal right to execute officers in HIS military for insubordination, of course that is just an assumption on my part and beside my point.
We don't know that he would have killed Motti, and very well may have stopped before he died (I doubt this also, but we are not certain) and was just proving a point, that clearly hasn't been made before or Motti would have known better.
As I said before, Vader made a point to cite Ozzel's incompetence. And as I also said, Needa showed no fear in taking the news to Vader personally of his loss of the Falcon. (Seriously, go watch the scene again, there is no fear in Needa) In fact, I have always felt that this scene is one that demonstrates the respect Vader does have as Needa is going to just send a message or underling.
And again, Vader is in pursuit of Luke at this point, not on a standard military mission. The stakes are far higher, along with Vader's emotional state. The entire scenario is a highly unique as far as we know.
Does he punish failure? Yes, but this is an Empire run by the Sith who get their power from anger, fear and aggression.
Failure? How did Captain Needa fail to find the Falcon? Everyone but Fett thought it had jumped into hyperspace!
Uh... he failed to find the Falcon by failing to find the Falcon.
Keep in mind that, IIRC, the Avenger was one of the Star Destroyers that let the Falcon get away into the asteroid field in the first place.
And Palpatine successfully distances himself from that in public opinion. Vader does not.
And as we all agree on, Vader is an extension of the Emperor in the Empire's eyes. So why doesn't whatever Vader does garner revolt against the Emperor, but automatically garners revolt against Vader in the Emperor's place?
Because the Emperor is astute in managing the many warlords under his command. Vader has shown no desire to involve himself with politics, and thus no skill in controlling it.
What "warlords"? There is a very rigid military structure that the Emperor himself constructed. Palpatine values order and obedience and certainly would not tolerate "warlords".
Oh right, the EU has warlords all over the place. I forgot.