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 Post subject: What all does Jedi training involve? PostPosted: 2010-12-05 06:51am
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Easy enough question, what all is involved in Jedi Training?

What is required for their meditation? What is required for their learning of the force? What is required for their physical fitness? Do they have schools of diplomacy? Of Combat? of Science and ethics?



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 Post subject: Re: What all does Jedi training involve? PostPosted: 2010-12-05 07:24am
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From what I remember from the Power of the Jedi Sourcebook, every Jedi needs to be able to efficiently defend themselves. This is not elaborated upon, except to say a Jedi does not need to be proficient in lightsaber combat or even be proficient with any weapons whatsoever, so long as they can protect themselves. I'll take a look into the Jedi Academy Training Manual later and get back to you with whatever I find out.



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 Post subject: Re: What all does Jedi training involve? PostPosted: 2010-12-05 07:41am
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According to wookiepedia, before they can become a Padawan they have to be at least acquainted with all 7 lightsaber combat forms and be proficient in at least one. To be a Knight you have to be proficient in all and have mastered one.

That's combat anyway. Although, there was some guff about Jedi being either Guardians, Consulars or Sentinels, which I would imagine would depend on what areas of skill you demonstrate early on



"I could be bounded in a nutshell and count myself a king of infinite space, were it not that I have bad dreams" - Hamlet

"Bones' remedies for problems seems to revolve around giving his patients a prescription of heavy drugs, booze, or taking them to strip clubs. He is either insane, a drug addict, or the best damn Doctor in Starfleet!" - SFDebris

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 Post subject: Re: What all does Jedi training involve? PostPosted: 2010-12-05 07:46am
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Eternal_Freedom wrote:
According to wookiepedia, before they can become a Padawan they have to be at least acquainted with all 7 lightsaber combat forms and be proficient in at least one. To be a Knight you have to be proficient in all and have mastered one.
Unless you can directly source what Wookieepedia says, don't trust it.

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That's combat anyway. Although, there was some guff about Jedi being either Guardians, Consulars or Sentinels, which I would imagine would depend on what areas of skill you demonstrate early on

No, the Jedi Classes are an abstraction created for the D20 RPG (Guardians as Paladins and Consulars as Clerics) and then KotOR (which added Sentinels as Roguish Jedi).



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Why would you celebrate the slowly tightening grip of Death?~Hans Beinholt, German Ambassador to the UN, on Children's Birthday Parties.
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 Post subject: Re: What all does Jedi training involve? PostPosted: 2010-12-05 07:49am
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I always wondered what kind of knowledge a Jedi is taught. Does it involve just force and combat-related topics or do they get a broader education involving physical sciences, engineering, languages and the like? I would say since their duties almost guaranteedly involve lots of interplanetary travel, those should be an absolute must. Historical, political and astronomical knowledge won't hurt either if they truly want to live up to their role as galactic guardians of peace.



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 Post subject: Re: What all does Jedi training involve? PostPosted: 2010-12-05 08:09am
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Metahive wrote:
I always wondered what kind of knowledge a Jedi is taught. Does it involve just force and combat-related topics or do they get a broader education involving physical sciences, engineering, languages and the like? I would say since their duties almost guaranteedly involve lots of interplanetary travel, those should be an absolute must. Historical, political and astronomical knowledge won't hurt either if they truly want to live up to their role as galactic guardians of peace.

Jedi get a pretty broad education, with many of the Younglings not being chosen instead becoming teachers in the EduCorps, teaching people better methods to grow crops in the AgriCorps, becoming a part of the ExplorCorps and charting the Galaxy, or doctors in the MedCorps. They are always encouraged to continue learning what they wish, Anakin in particular was given access to help maintain and build droids for the temple. He was also encouraged by Saesee Tiin to develop new technologies by modifying one of the Jedi's Delta-7 Aethersprites, of which a number of his advancements were used by Kuat Drive Yards to make a high maneuverability variant of the already quite nimble Aethersprite and later the Eta-2 Actis.



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Why would you celebrate the slowly tightening grip of Death?~Hans Beinholt, German Ambassador to the UN, on Children's Birthday Parties.
"When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up." -C.S. Lewis

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 Post subject: Re: What all does Jedi training involve? PostPosted: 2010-12-05 08:11am
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EDIT: Damnit Schatten beat me to the punch with the Service Corps stuff

Althought I notice a lack of sources there Schatten :)



"I could be bounded in a nutshell and count myself a king of infinite space, were it not that I have bad dreams" - Hamlet

"Bones' remedies for problems seems to revolve around giving his patients a prescription of heavy drugs, booze, or taking them to strip clubs. He is either insane, a drug addict, or the best damn Doctor in Starfleet!" - SFDebris

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 Post subject: Re: What all does Jedi training involve? PostPosted: 2010-12-05 03:30pm
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Eternal_Freedom wrote:
EDIT: Damnit Schatten beat me to the punch with the Service Corps stuff

Althought I notice a lack of sources there Schatten :)

The Power of the Jedi Sourcebook, if you want I can also take some scans of the relevant sections of the Clone Wars Campaign Guide. It's not the general well-known stuff you have to worry about or stuff you know where to find it, I just don't trust Wookieepedia.



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Why would you celebrate the slowly tightening grip of Death?~Hans Beinholt, German Ambassador to the UN, on Children's Birthday Parties.
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 Post subject: Re: What all does Jedi training involve? PostPosted: 2010-12-05 03:47pm
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That's fair enough. I figured it would do for the vaguest of background on the combat stuff. Where Guadians, Sentinels and Consulars really created for RPG's? Does the concept appear in any higher cannon source, just out of curiousity?



"I could be bounded in a nutshell and count myself a king of infinite space, were it not that I have bad dreams" - Hamlet

"Bones' remedies for problems seems to revolve around giving his patients a prescription of heavy drugs, booze, or taking them to strip clubs. He is either insane, a drug addict, or the best damn Doctor in Starfleet!" - SFDebris

SDN World 6: The Kingdom of Orion

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 Post subject: Re: What all does Jedi training involve? PostPosted: 2010-12-05 10:32pm
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Eternal_Freedom wrote:
That's fair enough. I figured it would do for the vaguest of background on the combat stuff. Where Guadians, Sentinels and Consulars really created for RPG's? Does the concept appear in any higher cannon source, just out of curiousity?

They were. The first appearance of Jedi Guardian and Consular were in the D20 SWRPG Core Rulebook. The Guardian performed the role that a Paladin does in D&D, that being as melee combatant with some modicum of magic/Force abilities. The Consular took the role of the Cleric, using magic/the Force to buff allies and cast offensive spells whilst retaining respectable melee capabilities.

The Sentinel for KotOR was created as a third option. In KotOR you started with three classes Soldier (Fighter), Scout (Ranger), and Scoundrel (Ranger). The Guardian complimented the Fighter, the Consular the Scout (Like Rangers Wisdom is important), and the made the Sentinel so they had a stealthy Jedi for the Scoundrel. Now, on the P&P front, the RPG has a generic Jedi Class with talent trees and you can pick from any tree you want so long as you meet the prerequisites (most talents don't require any). In the Bioware games they've called the two classes Jedi Knight and Jedi Sage.

I've not seen anything to suggest that they're anything except abstractions to differentiate the methods of Yoda and the Emperor from those of Mace Windu and Darth Maul, for example.



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Why would you celebrate the slowly tightening grip of Death?~Hans Beinholt, German Ambassador to the UN, on Children's Birthday Parties.
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 Post subject: Re: What all does Jedi training involve? PostPosted: 2010-12-06 01:11pm
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Fascinating. I'm almost completely unfamiliar with RPg's of any type or genre, so it is interesting to hear about this stuff. How much of the fluff for Jedi and Sith come from RPG sourcebooks and stuff?



"I could be bounded in a nutshell and count myself a king of infinite space, were it not that I have bad dreams" - Hamlet

"Bones' remedies for problems seems to revolve around giving his patients a prescription of heavy drugs, booze, or taking them to strip clubs. He is either insane, a drug addict, or the best damn Doctor in Starfleet!" - SFDebris

SDN World 6: The Kingdom of Orion

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 Post subject: Re: What all does Jedi training involve? PostPosted: 2010-12-06 02:03pm
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Obi-Wan seemed quite proficient in starship mechanics, hot-wiring the Gungan sub and getting power back out of nothing at all, then stripping down the Nubian hyperdrive. Then he spends 18 years on Tatooine while a space station the size of a small moon that he's never laid eyes on is being built, and yet he can locate and shut down a tractor beam without any help once he's on it. Are the courses at the Jedi Academy for such things required or elective?

I wondered about Jedi defense. Some of those alien races in the Jedi council chamber didn't appear physiologically suited for sustained lightsaber combat against a humanoid--do they learn self-defense with the Force instead?

I enjoyed the bit in Zahn's Heir to the Empire, where Luke is called upon to mediate a pending bar fight. He does so with remarkable aplomb, but inside he's really sweating, because he never had to use diplomacy in such a way before.



"In the long run, however, there can be no excuse for any individual not knowing what it is possible for him to know. Why shouldn't he?" --Elliot Grosvenor, Voyage of the Space Beagle

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 Post subject: Re: What all does Jedi training involve? PostPosted: 2010-12-06 02:33pm
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I thought that was a very well-done section, showing Luke suddenly confronting the fact that being a Jedi isn't jst flying X-Wings and lightsaber fights.

What's more interesting is that, after about two decades without Jedi around, both parties accepted the judgement without argument. (The only argument involved directly with Luke's judgement was Niles Ferrier arguing about exchange rates)



"I could be bounded in a nutshell and count myself a king of infinite space, were it not that I have bad dreams" - Hamlet

"Bones' remedies for problems seems to revolve around giving his patients a prescription of heavy drugs, booze, or taking them to strip clubs. He is either insane, a drug addict, or the best damn Doctor in Starfleet!" - SFDebris

SDN World 6: The Kingdom of Orion

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 Post subject: Re: What all does Jedi training involve? PostPosted: 2010-12-06 02:40pm
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TOSDOC wrote:
I wondered about Jedi defense. Some of those alien races in the Jedi council chamber didn't appear physiologically suited for sustained lightsaber combat against a humanoid--do they learn self-defense with the Force instead?
Indeed, one Jedi Master named Fay, eschewed the use of any weapons whatsoever.

Eternal_Freedom wrote:
Fascinating. I'm almost completely unfamiliar with RPg's of any type or genre, so it is interesting to hear about this stuff. How much of the fluff for Jedi and Sith come from RPG sourcebooks and stuff?

Not a lot, though there are a few. Mainly the RPG sourcebooks are a collection of what we know about a time period or specific types of people in the galaxy and tools they use. Though sometimes they'll add things to the canon like actual force regimens, such as the oxygen bottle one where a Jedi has to create a perfect vacuum inside a glass jar and fill it with pure oxygen before putting a seal on it. The Jedi Academy Training Manual (JATM) also names specific lightsaber cadences.

They've also been known to add a character or two to canon, Sia-Lan Wezz was introduced in the D20 RPG as an example of the Jedi Guardian class and as a player to an adventure module called Invasion of Theed that serves as an introductory game for the rules. She was eventually written into a comic named 'Purge' where she and seven other survivors of Order 66 are killed by Vader on Kessel.
TOSDOC wrote:
I wondered about Jedi defense. Some of those alien races in the Jedi council chamber didn't appear physiologically suited for sustained lightsaber combat against a humanoid--do they learn self-defense with the Force instead?
Indeed, one Jedi Master named Fay, eschewed the use of any weapons whatsoever.



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Why would you celebrate the slowly tightening grip of Death?~Hans Beinholt, German Ambassador to the UN, on Children's Birthday Parties.
"When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up." -C.S. Lewis

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 Post subject: Re: What all does Jedi training involve? PostPosted: 2010-12-06 02:53pm
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General Schatten wrote:
TOSDOC wrote:
I wondered about Jedi defense. Some of those alien races in the Jedi council chamber didn't appear physiologically suited for sustained lightsaber combat against a humanoid--do they learn self-defense with the Force instead?
Indeed, one Jedi Master named Fay, eschewed the use of any weapons whatsoever.

Eternal_Freedom wrote:
Fascinating. I'm almost completely unfamiliar with RPg's of any type or genre, so it is interesting to hear about this stuff. How much of the fluff for Jedi and Sith come from RPG sourcebooks and stuff?

Not a lot, though there are a few. Mainly the RPG sourcebooks are a collection of what we know about a time period or specific types of people in the galaxy and tools they use. Though sometimes they'll add things to the canon like actual force regimens, such as the oxygen bottle one where a Jedi has to create a perfect vacuum inside a glass jar and fill it with pure oxygen before putting a seal on it. The Jedi Academy Training Manual (JATM) also names specific lightsaber cadences.

They've also been known to add a character or two to canon, Sia-Lan Wezz was introduced in the D20 RPG as an example of the Jedi Guardian class and as a player to an adventure module called Invasion of Theed that serves as an introductory game for the rules. She was eventually written into a comic named 'Purge' where she and seven other survivors of Order 66 are killed by Vader on Kessel.
TOSDOC wrote:
I wondered about Jedi defense. Some of those alien races in the Jedi council chamber didn't appear physiologically suited for sustained lightsaber combat against a humanoid--do they learn self-defense with the Force instead?
Indeed, one Jedi Master named Fay, eschewed the use of any weapons whatsoever.


Whoa. Deja vu. :mrgreen:



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 Post subject: Re: What all does Jedi training involve? PostPosted: 2010-12-06 02:56pm
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Eternal_Freedom wrote:
I thought that was a very well-done section, showing Luke suddenly confronting the fact that being a Jedi isn't jst flying X-Wings and lightsaber fights.

What's more interesting is that, after about two decades without Jedi around, both parties accepted the judgement without argument. (The only argument involved directly with Luke's judgement was Niles Ferrier arguing about exchange rates)


Definitely the best part of that exchange, after Luke was actually called over by one of the party to mediate. It was nice to see the Jedi being missed and what they were actually called upon to do besides get into "aggressive negotiations".



"In the long run, however, there can be no excuse for any individual not knowing what it is possible for him to know. Why shouldn't he?" --Elliot Grosvenor, Voyage of the Space Beagle

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 Post subject: Re: What all does Jedi training involve? PostPosted: 2010-12-06 07:13pm
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Most definitely agreed. It's a nice indicator of the role the Jedi had before the Purge:

"I call on Jedi for Judgement" - kinda says it all really



"I could be bounded in a nutshell and count myself a king of infinite space, were it not that I have bad dreams" - Hamlet

"Bones' remedies for problems seems to revolve around giving his patients a prescription of heavy drugs, booze, or taking them to strip clubs. He is either insane, a drug addict, or the best damn Doctor in Starfleet!" - SFDebris

SDN World 6: The Kingdom of Orion

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 Post subject: Re: What all does Jedi training involve? PostPosted: 2010-12-11 02:54pm
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Is the Jedi Apprentice series considered cannon?

It starts off with Obi-Wan's last couple days at the Jedi Temple and quickly continues with his training as a padawan learner under Qui Gon Jinn. Lots of good insight into what being a jedi-student entails.



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 Post subject: Re: What all does Jedi training involve? PostPosted: 2010-12-11 03:48pm
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Sela wrote:
Is the Jedi Apprentice series considered cannon?

It starts off with Obi-Wan's last couple days at the Jedi Temple and quickly continues with his training as a padawan learner under Qui Gon Jinn. Lots of good insight into what being a jedi-student entails.


http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Canon



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 Post subject: Re: What all does Jedi training involve? PostPosted: 2010-12-12 12:44am
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Sela wrote:
Is the Jedi Apprentice series considered cannon?

It starts off with Obi-Wan's last couple days at the Jedi Temple and quickly continues with his training as a padawan learner under Qui Gon Jinn. Lots of good insight into what being a jedi-student entails.

I think an actual explanation of Star Wars canon is important than just a link.

In Star Wars you have varying degrees of canon authority, where in the case of a direct contradiction the higher source wins, though if you can reconcile the source it is preferable. Now as a general rule that means anything that isn't specifically labeled 'Infinity', which is Star Wars' line of 'what-if' comics or directly contradicted, it's canon.

The four major levels of canon are G-Canon, T-Canon, C-Canon, S-Canon, and N-Canon.

G-Canon is the movies, move novelzations, and internal notes from George Lucas.
T-Canon are the new television series' produced by Lucasfilm, which for now is only The Clone Wars.
C-Canon is generally everything else; video games, comics, novels, the Ewok and Droids TV series, and other such things.
S-Canon is some of the material in the old Marvel comics series, which is ambiguously canon in some aspects, unless it's directly included in the higher canon.
N-Canon is anything that is unambiguously non-canon, like the Infinities series, the Dark Side ending to games, and the Dark Side DLC/Sith Edition of The Force Unleashed.



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Why would you celebrate the slowly tightening grip of Death?~Hans Beinholt, German Ambassador to the UN, on Children's Birthday Parties.
"When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up." -C.S. Lewis

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 Post subject: Re: What all does Jedi training involve? PostPosted: 2010-12-12 02:37pm
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The WOTC RPG attempts to shoehorn the Jedi Trial noted in ROTJ and TPM into Jedi training is.... well.... interesting to say the least.

To summarise, we know from TPM and ROTJ that after confronting a Sith and failing to fall to the Dark Side, both Luke and Obiwan were considered seasoned enough to be Jedi Knights.

Cue to the RPG where the Jedi Trials is introduced. You still have the basic requirement that a Jedi is now able to confront "evil" and survive/win. Since not everyone is going to go face a Sith, they introduce gangbanger mission, missions into Coruscant underworld to pick up packages...............

You get the idea.



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 Post subject: Re: What all does Jedi training involve? PostPosted: 2010-12-12 02:40pm
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That actually sounds like Darsha Assant's trail in 'Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter' go in to the Crimson Corridor of Coruscant and bring back and informer from a safe house. She fucks it up spectacularly.



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