Force Unleashed II (Spoilers Possible)

[Thanas]

I never understood the hyper-inclusionist viewpoint. It's not like the game clashing with established canon makes it any less fun to play. Hell, now that the CW cartoon series is out an shitting on a lot of the previous CW EU, they're doing backflips to fit all that in together too.

But my absolute favorite has got to be the attempt to rationalize Operation Skyhook, where the Death Star plans were apparently stolen by fifty different people at once. Personally I like to either ignore most other EU besides Dark Forces, or just assume that Kyle got the plans, and everyone else got something else like shipping details and industrial output reports to give the Alliance some idea of how close the DS was to completion, but Wookiepedia actually tries to claim that each separate character stole a different part of the battle station plans or something, as if the Empire kept the plans split up in fifty different locations or something.

Honestly, the Bria Tharen explanation should be preferred seeing as how it is the only book explanation I can think of and books should be higher canon IMO.

[Darksider]

Katarn's exploits on Danuta were also novelized in a series of books based on the DF games, so no dice there.

[Galvatron]

Are you serious? The idea of nerds trying to fit such a superhero game into the EU is fucking hilarious.

I guess you just figure the powers are 'game mechanics'? And the never-referenced changes-nothing events are just weaseled out of somehow? The outrageously out-of-character characterisations are just PMS?

Honestly I look forward to TFU2 being as crazy as it sounds, because anyone stupid enough to try to fit it into the movie continuity deserves the migraine it gives them.

Forget the nerds, I'm talking about Lucasfilm. It seems obvious to me that they intend for this thing to fit into the main continuity, gaffs or not.

Just like the Marvel comic or any of the other random shit they've managed to cram into "C-canon" lately.

[Thanas]

Katarn's exploits on Danuta were also novelized in a series of books based on the DF games, so no dice there.

Meh, still lower canon to me as these books are from a video game, not books in their own right.

[Aasharu]

I'm just sick of them constantly basing every single book, game and comic in the same 100 year span or so, from Episode 1 to wherever the EU currently is. What I hate even more is the fact that they keep using the same characters - the timeline has been crammed full of so much crap, it's impossible for any of the major movie characters to do anything anymore without it contradicting a half dozen other sources. You have an entire galaxy to play with, and several thousand unused years to put stories in. That's why I like the KOTOR series, in fact - they actually made a Star Wars story that didn't include any movie characters at all. A lot of the older comics, the ones detailing the ancient wars with the Sith, and all that other stuff, that was also really good. But now, since the prequels came out, every single story seems to be set in either the Clone Wars era, the Galactic Empire era, or the New Republic era.

[Srelex]

There seems to be a surge of pre-movie era stuff coming to coincide with the new Old Republic MMO, however.

[Aasharu]

That's actually one of the things I like about The Old Republic game. Regardless of what the gameplay is like, or anything else, at least it's basing the story in a massive chunk of the timeline that has not yet been explored. They can actually do something with it, instead of tip toeing around the canon, like in so many other games.

Oh, and on topic, the entire story for TFU really smacks of George Lucas' recent writings. He has a lot of grand, high minded ideas that utterly fail to merge well with any of his other work. I personally feel he would be looked upon much more favorably if he were to leave his old franchises and stick these stories in a new universe, or something.

[Srelex]

From what I can gather, Lucas delegated most of the story; no, I think the real problem here is not Lucas, but fanboys who are let in on the franchise and jizz over uber-awesome force powers and stuff instead of trying to tell sensible stories.

[Stark]

Just like the Marvel comic or any of the other random shit they've managed to cram into "C-canon" lately.

You are a bad man.

[Aasharu]

From what I can gather, Lucas delegated most of the story; no, I think the real problem here is not Lucas, but fanboys who are let in on the franchise and jizz over uber-awesome force powers and stuff instead of trying to tell sensible stories.

Maybe they should have read more of Zahn's books. I mean, say what you will about the man, and I'd be the first to admit he's a bit overhyped, but he did try and scale back on the uber-wanked force powers. Shame it didn't stick with the fandom at large.

[Talhe]

Maybe they should have read more of Zahn's books. I mean, say what you will about the man, and I'd be the first to admit he's a bit overhyped, but he did try and scale back on the uber-wanked force powers. Shame it didn't stick with the fandom at large.

Eh, he kind of went too far in the opposite direction. I mean, him and Mara having trouble against a single destroyer droid? I know that they're tough, but I kind of expect more from Luke then that.

I do agree with the 'ultra-Force', but it seems to fluctuate depending on the author; Stackpole and Denning are worlds apart on the subject (as well as writing ability, but that's another story...)

[Thanas]

Maybe they should have read more of Zahn's books. I mean, say what you will about the man, and I'd be the first to admit he's a bit overhyped, but he did try and scale back on the uber-wanked force powers. Shame it didn't stick with the fandom at large.

Eh, he kind of went too far in the opposite direction. I mean, him and Mara having trouble against a single destroyer droid? I know that they're tough, but I kind of expect more from Luke then that.

I'd say that in the specific situation, any jedi would have had trouble.

Stackpole and Denning are worlds apart on the subject (as well as writing ability, but that's another story...)

Yeah, the latter is a complete hack.

[Talhe]

I'd say that in the specific situation, any jedi would have had trouble.

Eh, maybe; it's been a while since I read Survivors Quest, so you're probably right. Still, you'd think just shoving it into a wall hard would work.

Yeah, the latter is a complete hack.

You also forgot creepy; I had difficulty reading DNC and his LotF stuff comfortably while sober.

I do wish the crappier aspects of the EU were cut from continuity (such as LotF, DNC, most of the NJO, Jedi Prince), as I have problems reconciling some of the sheer stupidity of it with the better stuff (Shatterpoint, Thrawn Trilogy, X-Wing, ect ect). Fortunately, I've stumbled across the perfect solution from reading Shadows of Mindor: If it sucks, it's a example of a in-universe holothriller, with a few aspects of truth. If TFUII has a terrible story, I'll relegate it to in-universe Rebel propaganda based off of some crazy blind hobo general recollections of certain events.

Of course, I'll still enjoy incinerating stormies with the Force.

[Darth Fanboy]

Yeah, the latter is a they are both complete hacks.

Fixed for you.

[Galvatron]

Just like the Marvel comic or any of the other random shit they've managed to cram into "C-canon" lately.

You are a bad man.

Just wait and see if Sam Witwer makes an appearance in the live-action TV series as Starkiller and solidifies this shit into canon even more. It's an event that'll only be outdone by Samuel L. Jackson's inevitable guest spot in a season finale as Mace Windu: alive and well!

[Stofsk]

Galvatron is truly the most devious and pitiless of Decepitons.

[Darth Yan]

I am probably alone in saying that I didn't mind troy denning's books, and I actually LIKED the TFU storyline. There was never any need for godlike powers in film, and the apprentice was pushed further then most. I don't get what all the gripe is.

[Galvatron]

Are any of Starkiller's powers really any worse than when Dorsk 81 repelled a fleet of star destroyers out of the whole friggin' Yavin system in Darksaber? Or when Naga Sadow made a star go nova in Tales of the Jedi: The Fall of the Sith Empire?

[Adam Reynolds]

Are any of Starkiller's powers really any worse than when Dorsk 81 repelled a fleet of star destroyers out of the whole friggin' Yavin system in Darksaber? Or when Naga Sadow made a star go nova in Tales of the Jedi: The Fall of the Sith Empire?

I don't think its his powers that are the problem, it is mainly that he able to defeat Vader in combat as well as hold the Emperor at bay. While it is much easier to pull down a single star destroyer than it is to repel a fleet of them, there was a group of Jedi comprising in the dozens IIRC allowing them to have powers vastly beyond an individual and there was the fact that Dorsk 81 was killed by the massive energy usage. Regarding the supernova, I was under the impression that it was a kind of special weapon, not a conventional force attack.

[DudeGuyMan]

I am convinced Gary Stu Marek is the lovechild of Boba Fett and Quinlan Vos at this point.

I had a slightly different lineage in mind when I threw this together in Paint months ago to post on another forum.



Anyway as far as canon goes, this is pretty much how it goes for me:

Movies
KOTOR 1, never played the sequel
Thrawn Trilogy
Screw the rest

[Darksider]

Are any of Starkiller's powers really any worse than when Dorsk 81 repelled a fleet of star destroyers out of the whole friggin' Yavin system in Darksaber? Or when Naga Sadow made a star go nova in Tales of the Jedi: The Fall of the Sith Empire?

Honestly, Starkiller's powers aren't what annoys me. That's just the way force powers are going to be portrayed in a game called The Force Unleashed. Vader displays similar powers in the opening, tossing around Wookies like rag dolls, and Kota splits the Tie construction facility apart. His importance to the storyline is more annoying. He's this powerful character who nobody knew about before who was Vader's secret apprentice and created the Rebel Alliance. Why have we never heard about him before? And he somehow beats up Vader and the fucking Emperor?

[Darth Yan]

palpatine probably threw the fight (the novel and games imply so); and the reason he wasn't known was because he was told to leave no witnesses.

[Molyneux]

I am fine and dandy with TFU being tossed out of continuity...not only because of the idiocy of having Captain CameOuttaNowhere be behind half the stuff in the movies, but because that means that Shaak Ti's fate remains a mystery - and that's the way I like it.

[Adam Reynolds]

I am fine and dandy with TFU being tossed out of continuity...not only because of the idiocy of having Captain CameOuttaNowhere be behind half the stuff in the movies, but because that means that Shaak Ti's fate remains a mystery - and that's the way I like it.

I was always under the impression that she was killed in the attack, being the senior Jedi that she was. There was also the fact that in the novelization, as Anakin killed the temple gate master he asked where she was, implying that he was out to kill her personally. This would fit with the fact that Anakin also went gunning for the Jedi battlemaster at the time, Cin Drallig.

[Vympel]

I've heard some stuff about Vader's capture now - I hate the pussification and denigration of Vader that a lot of EU writers engage in, so here's the skinny:-

* In the novel version, Vader is treated with appropriate respect by the author throughout. He has Starkiller before him (and the novel makes clear that Vader has nothing to fear from him, which is a welcome change from the first game) and Juno Eclipse gets her hands on one of Starkiller's lightsabres and tries to stab him in the back - Vader anticipates it, moves out of the way with "inhuman speed" but Juno by accident after the stab (i.e. after she's missed) damages Vader's chest panel. Vader fucks her up, Starkiller gets mad and uses lightning on Vader, subduing him.

* The comic version is fucking retarded. Juno somehow manages to to slash Vader's control panel from the front because she's ... that fast? WTF? He fucks her up, then same thing with Starkiller.

I know which version I prefer, even though I think either is silly. It'll be interesting to see what the game shows. A friend of mine has played the demo, he says its lightyears ahead of the original.