Clone Wars season 2

[Darksider]

Anyone else watch this yet?

It wasn't bad, although i'm not sure I like how easy it was for Bane to waltz into and out of the Jedi Temple.

as for next week, it looks likeSpoiler

bane killed one of the Clone Troopers and took his armor. Called that one from a mile away.

[TC Pilot]

It wasn't bad, though a bit... schizophrenic at times, like how Yularen's suddenly angry all the time, or the whole Kaiburr crystal now being a record book to all known Force sensitives?

Bane was pretty good, combining an amount of competence and ruthlessness with luck that makes him a threat but not ridiculously so. He treats droids like the expendable tools they are.

As for getting in and out of the Jedi Temple, keep in mind he was given access by Palpatine. Without that, he woudln't have stood a chance, as he admits right at the start.

[Darth Fanboy]

This was the first episode of the show i've watched since my cable provider picked up Cartoon Network's HD Feed and it definitely looked much better, and in that respect I will have much more fun watching this show than last year.

I'm not one to criticize a kid's show if they are doing plots geared at children for children, but the impression I got was that this was a plot designed to try and appeal to an older audience as well and I don't think it succeeded in that respect.

[Darth Nostril]

... or the whole Kaiburr crystal now being a record book to all known Force sensitives?
.

Pretty sure that was lifted wholesale from a fanfilm.

[Ritterin Sophia]

I watched it, Cad Bane seems to be the most interesting thing that's come out of the EU in a while.

[TC Pilot]

Pretty sure that was lifted wholesale from a fanfilm.

It sounded a lot like a plot contrivance, anyway. Why would they need a Jedi, and only a Jedi, to unlock it? What, Dooku or Palpatine can't do it?

[Thanas]

The droids were as usual idiots and couldn't hit anything. Most impressive failure? Not using fighters for strafing attacks, instead turning them into static and easy to hit gunpods.

[TC Pilot]

The droids were as usual idiots and couldn't hit anything. Most impressive failure? Not using fighters for strafing attacks, instead turning them into static and easy to hit gunpods.

The droids and clones are only as accurate as plot dictates, the fight for the shuttle being a good example of that. As for poor use of fighters, I guess you could explain it as being because the Venator would have just blown them out of the sky if they'd done strafing runs.

Anyone else think it's odd that Anakin could sense Bane was still alive, but couldn't detect that the Rodian Jedi was dead? Oh yeah, and they really screwed up the scaling of the Juggernaught.

[VT-16]

Actually, it's more like an A5 variant than the A6 Juggernaut now.

[Vympel]

I really enjoyed it. I loved the Clonetrooper operating the gun on the Juggernaut at the start - that design was first used for a Phase II Clonetrooper concept for RotS that wasn't seen in the final film, but made it to action figure form as a Clone Trooper vehicle driver.

It was then reproduced as a LEGO minifigure (Phase I Clone Wars version) in the Clone Trooper Battle Pack Set, and again in the Venator Republic Attack Cruiser set.

The animation is way better than in Season 1, the camera angles are more interesting, there's a lot more going on in each shot, it's all just way better, which is really impressive, technically.

As for the plot, it was annoying that Obi-Wan and Anakin were too stupid to even conceive of someone wanting to steal a Holocron when their enemy is COUNT DOOKU, but oh well.

Watching the preview videos on sw.com, I can't wait to see Ki Adi Mundi's Galactic Marines in that funky desert Phase I armor. And it's always nice seeing Rex again.

One thing I didn't get was the night vision thing - why do the regular Clones have full visors for that, but Rex can get the same functionality from his eyepiece (which on Boba/ Jango's helmet is used for targeting his missile, as we saw in AotC)? Why not just give them the same eyepiece as well?

[NecronLord]

Pretty sure that was lifted wholesale from a fanfilm.

It sounded a lot like a plot contrivance, anyway. Why would they need a Jedi, and only a Jedi, to unlock it? What, Dooku or Palpatine can't do it?

WANKATINE couldn't fully unlock all features of a jedi holocron, back when the concept was introduced. Why should his puny earlier self be able to do it?

Anyone else think it's odd that Anakin could sense Bane was still alive, but couldn't detect that the Rodian Jedi was dead? Oh yeah, and they really screwed up the scaling of the Juggernaught.

Not at all. He'd met Bane. The rodian jedi guy was a stranger.

As for the plot, it was annoying that Obi-Wan and Anakin were too stupid to even conceive of someone wanting to steal a Holocron when their enemy is COUNT DOOKU, but oh well.

In fairness to them, a holocron is all but useless to anyone not a force sensative, and even to an ultra-superduper sith, they're not that helpful. The full information on the Republic's war-plans would be much more valuable.

One thing I didn't get was the night vision thing - why do the regular Clones have full visors for that, but Rex can get the same functionality from his eyepiece (which on Boba/ Jango's helmet is used for targeting his missile, as we saw in AotC)? Why not just give them the same eyepiece as well?

I would assume the eyepiece is rather fragile compared to the visor, but that Rex favours it for some reason.

[TC Pilot]

WANKATINE couldn't fully unlock all features of a jedi holocron, back when the concept was introduced. Why should his puny earlier self be able to do it?

Palpatine's the single most knowledgeable person on the subject of the Force, and arguably the most powerful Sith Lord to ever exist. Dooku's a former Jedi Master, one of their best and brightest. Anakin's a Jedi Knight who isn't allowed to access Holocrons. Which of these three would be least likely to know how to activate a Holocron?

[Tiriol]

WANKATINE couldn't fully unlock all features of a jedi holocron, back when the concept was introduced. Why should his puny earlier self be able to do it?

Palpatine's the single most knowledgeable person on the subject of the Force, and arguably the most powerful Sith Lord to ever exist. Dooku's a former Jedi Master, one of their best and brightest. Anakin's a Jedi Knight who isn't allowed to access Holocrons. Which of these three would be least likely to know how to activate a Holocron?

The problem is that a Jedi Holocron apparently doesn't let its user, even if he or she does activate it, access to all of its knowledge, especially if its user is tainted with the dark side. No matter how powerful Palpatine is, no matter how bright Dooku is, if they can't unlock the deeper secrets of the Holocron or even activate it because of their allegiance to the dark side, then it is either useless to them or they need someone who hasn't fallen to the dark side already.

[NecronLord]

WANKATINE couldn't fully unlock all features of a jedi holocron, back when the concept was introduced. Why should his puny earlier self be able to do it?

Palpatine's the single most knowledgeable person on the subject of the Force, and arguably the most powerful Sith Lord to ever exist. Dooku's a former Jedi Master, one of their best and brightest. Anakin's a Jedi Knight who isn't allowed to access Holocrons. Which of these three would be least likely to know how to activate a Holocron?

"to a certain extent, the knowledge hidden in the Holocron can be accessed by anyone. The Emperor learned consdierable arcane information from the Holocron, and he exploited this knowledge, twisting it to his own ends. Some of his vaunted "Dark Side secrets" are in fact corruptions of teachings in the Holocron.
But the holocron has many levels and many branching paths concealed within its circuitry. Only a Jedi Knight can unlock those hidden places. So it was that the greatest portion of the Holocron's wisdom remained sealed away from the Emperor's prying eyes." ~ Dark Empire #5.

This is super-powerful Wankatine. He can smash entire fleets but he still cannot access the areas of the Holocron intended for Jedi Knights only. From DE #6, the Holocron reads minds, it's logical to assume it scans in some way for membership of the Jedi Order. Canonically, even at his most powerful, Palpatine could not access the depths of a holocron, speculation is not required, we've direct evidence.

Anakin is a Jedi Knight.

We don't know if a fallen Jedi like Dooku or Vader could do it, but Palpatine is not and never has been a Jedi Knight, he therefore cannot access all functions of a Jedi holocron.

[TC Pilot]

This is super-powerful Wankatine. He can smash entire fleets but he still cannot access the areas of the Holocron intended for Jedi Knights only. From DE #6, the Holocron reads minds, it's logical to assume it scans in some way for membership of the Jedi Order. Canonically, even at his most powerful, Palpatine could not access the depths of a holocron, speculation is not required, we've direct evidence.

Stop mentioning "Wankatine" as if it has even the slightest bearing on his abilities.

Anyway, the Holocron "reading his mind" shouldn't be even the slightest issue. This is a guy that sat in front of the best Jedi Masters for more than a decade and not only avoided being discovered as a Sith Lord of unrivalled power, but being discovered as a Force sensitive at all. Are you saying a piddling Holocron is more capable than the entire Jedi Council?

[Drooling Iguana]

Convincing the holocron that Palpatine isn't a Force-sensitive wouldn't do him much good. Palpatine's good at masking the face that he's Force-sensitive, but we've never seen him convince anyone that he's a light-side Force-user.

[Darksider]

On another note, Upon watching the premier again, I really hope Bane survives next week's episode. He's the only villian that's managed to defeat the heroes consistently. So far the Republic's finest are 0/2 against him, and I think he'd make a good recurring villian. Someone who shows that a cunning normal being can still be a threat in a galaxy full of jedi and super-enhanced cyborgs.

[TC Pilot]

Convincing the holocron that Palpatine isn't a Force-sensitive wouldn't do him much good. Palpatine's good at masking the face that he's Force-sensitive, but we've never seen him convince anyone that he's a light-side Force-user.

So if it's completely beyond his ability to fool the Holocron, that still leaves the question of why bother getting it? What, did Anakin just set it to "on" mode and now it'll accept any user?

I'd say it works if it were just a test of Bane's abilities, but I think Palpatine got that with the Senate mission. In any case, I guess it's too early to start whining too much about it, what with having no clue what they've got planned for it in the upcoming episodes.

Edit - how long do you suppose before the Seperatists (probably Bane) frees Wat Tambor? They can't just let the Techno Union's leader rot in a Republic prison, least of all since we know he escapes eventually.

[NecronLord]

Stop mentioning "Wankatine" as if it has even the slightest bearing on his abilities.

You are implying that Palpatine's abilities during the clone wars exceed his abilities much later, when he has achieved functional immortality?

Anyway, the Holocron "reading his mind" shouldn't be even the slightest issue. This is a guy that sat in front of the best Jedi Masters for more than a decade and not only avoided being discovered as a Sith Lord of unrivalled power, but being discovered as a Force sensitive at all. Are you saying a piddling Holocron is more capable than the entire Jedi Council?

What makes you think any of them ever tried to probe his mind? Incidentally, at least some holocrons are not necesserily fully mastered even by Yoda. Source, relating to the Great Holocron.

You're pretty desperate to cling to the notion that this is a plot hole and Palpatine should be able to use a Jedi holocron with ease, aren't you? Why?

[NecronLord]

So if it's completely beyond his ability to fool the Holocron, that still leaves the question of why bother getting it? What, did Anakin just set it to "on" mode and now it'll accept any user?

In this episode? It's clear that once the Kaiburr crystal is inserted, it's a matter of just extracting the information normally. The thing that requires a Jedi in this instance is inserting the crystal. To the point that Bane and Gunray suggest it can just be sent via shadowfeed like any normal data.

[Vympel]

Just a clarification, it's not the Kaiburr crystal from Splinter of the Mind's Eye. It's called Kyber, it's just a homage.

[TC Pilot]

You are implying that Palpatine's abilities during the clone wars exceed his abilities much later, when he has achieved functional immortality?

If there was any improvement in his powers, it was purely within the realm of offensives Force powers, unless you can demonstrate otherwise. Though, frankly, I'd say his overall abilities actually decreased substantially, what with Anakin balancing the Force, thereby depriving him of a Force dominated by the Dark Side that was of such grave concern for Yoda throughout the Prequels.

What makes you think any of them ever tried to probe his mind?

I would think that, having good reason to believe there's a Sith Lord on the loose inside the Republic government, the Jedi might have tried in the 13+ years of his time in office. If it's anything like Vader's "mind probe" in ANH , he should have no trouble fooling a dinky holocron.

Incidentally, at least some holocrons are not necesserily fully mastered even by Yoda. Source, relating to the Great Holocron.

If that link is what you're referring to, "fully mastered" pertains to simply the amount of knowledge stored in that particular holocron.

You're pretty desperate to cling to the notion that this is a plot hole and Palpatine should be able to use a Jedi holocron with ease, aren't you? Why?

Well, if you had actually read the rest of the post you quoted, you could plainly see I'm not "desperately clinging" to the idea of a plot hole.

[charlemagne]

So if it's completely beyond his ability to fool the Holocron, that still leaves the question of why bother getting it? What, did Anakin just set it to "on" mode and now it'll accept any user?

I got the impression that they just needed a holocron to access the info in the crystal and didn't care for the info in the holocron itself. Still leaves the question why Bane needed a Jedi to open the holocron and insert the crystal before delivering to Sidious. Even if opening one of these holocrons is some super-secret Jedi master ritual that Sidious never learnt, I'm just not convinced that Dooku wouldn't have been able to do it.

Also, completely buying into Bane's trick of stealing clone armor feels really stupid for Anakin. Anakin and Asoka kept getting their asses handed to them by him, then some trooper just shoots him in the face and none of them gets at least a bit suspicious - especially while still feeling his presence?

[NecronLord]

If there was any improvement in his powers, it was purely within the realm of offensives Force powers, unless you can demonstrate otherwise. Though, frankly, I'd say his overall abilities actually decreased substantially, what with Anakin balancing the Force, thereby depriving him of a Force dominated by the Dark Side that was of such grave concern for Yoda throughout the Prequels.

So your great force scholar lost all his knowledge and power? Assuming you're arguing that Wankatine was in some way a weaker clone, note that he had the DE holocron before his first death too, and didn't break into its depths then either.

I would think that, having good reason to believe there's a Sith Lord on the loose inside the Republic government, the Jedi might have tried in the 13+ years of his time in office. If it's anything like Vader's "mind probe" in ANH , he should have no trouble fooling a dinky holocron.

Which he doesn't - he can't do it canonically. Simple as. He tried, he failed.

And there's no reason to think they ever subjected him to any kind of rigorous mental probing - if even many of them are capable of it: "Master Tiin, you're the telepath" - the rest of that group of jedi council members, by extension, were not known telepaths.

[TC Pilot]

So your great force scholar lost all his knowledge and power? Assuming you're arguing that Wankatine was in some way a weaker clone, note that he had the DE holocron before his first death too, and didn't break into its depths then either.

No, that's not what I'm saying. His knowledge and abilities remained the same, if not expanded (what with surviving death and all), but his capacity to make good on those advantages was lessened by the fact that he was no longer the balance-wrecking avatar of Darkness he was prior to Anakin's fulfillment of the prophecy.

Which he doesn't - he can't do it canonically. Simple as. He tried, he failed.

That's nice. I've never said it's non-canon, I said it was contrived.