SD.net EU Quotation Database

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Balrog
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SD.net EU Quotation Database

Post by Balrog » 2009-02-04 03:09pm

The SW EU is full of hundreds of books, graphic novels, video games, RPG material, etc. A wealth of information that can prove useful for a multitude of reasons, yet its sheer size means most SW fans only have a taste of what's available. There are a number of databases that cover some of this spectrum, like Wong's, but their scope is limited, least of all because reading and taking notes of every piece of literature would take far too much time for any one person.

So I figured we try something of an experiment, a sort of "Grand EU Database" that would involve potentially the entire SD.net community. The way it would work would be each person would volunteer to read a single piece of SW canon literature, and by a set deadline submit a full notation of quotes from said source, with quotes organized based on a list of categories (basically the one Wong uses: The Force, Naval Weapons, Culture, etc.). Alternatively, two people could be assigned to the same source to ensure all relevant information is obtained, but that might be a little too redundant. Once their assignment is done, the readers could volunteer to cover another source, or help pick up on one that was abandoned for one reason or another, or simply leave their work at that. For something like a graphic novel, a requirement of having a scanner in order to reproduce the relevant pages/panels is obvious. Finished notations would initially be posted on the forums, linked by a 'master thread' acting as a table of contents, and perhaps eventually loaded onto the main web site.

This idea I believe has some merit, and would prove advantageous to the site. Rather than a single person attempting to cover hundreds of sources, we would have dozens, perhaps hundreds of people doing the same job, meaning the work would be completed in far less time. People would come together to work towards a common goal, and see their final product being put to good use, building a stronger sense of community. It would allow for quick and easy searches for debates, providing accurate quotations rather than vague remembrances. It would help with the SD.net wiki by giving references that can be linked to directly and improve the quality and accuracy of articles. And, as unfortunately is the case, many EU sources are pure shit in terms of quality, but still have some tidbits of information that can prove useful; this would save people from having to slog through a bad book looking for obscure references.

So, any thoughts?

Legends Continuity

Cloak of Deception

The Rising Force

Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter

Rebel Alliance Sourcebook

Clone Wars Campaign Guide

Disney Continuity

Tarkin

Heir to the Jedi

Lords of the Sith
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Gimli stared with wide eyes. 'Durin's Bane!' he cried, and letting his axe fall he covered his face.
'A Balrog,' muttered Gandalf. 'Now I understand.' He faltered and leaned heavily on his staff. 'What an evil fortune! And I am already weary.'
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Re: SD.net EU Quotation Database

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2009-02-04 03:39pm

I have no idea, but my gut feeling is this could violate copyright. Also, how extensive are the quotes we provide supposed to be? I presume you're not asking us to reprint an entire book word for word, so presumably we pick and choose the most important quotes. But by what criteria should we do so?

That said, if this does turn out to be viable, I could do The Last Command (its the only Star Wars book I have at home), or I could check out Dark Lord from the library (its my favorite Star Wars book).

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Re: SD.net EU Quotation Database

Post by Kodiak » 2009-02-04 04:50pm

Sounds like what you're proposing is some sort of SW.wiki site that can be updated by qualified persons to contain the copious amounts of SW facts and data available. I don't think this would violate copyright, as long as facts contained in the books are published and not direct content.
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Re: SD.net EU Quotation Database

Post by The Original Nex » 2009-02-04 05:06pm

Well you can use quotes for the purposes of analysis. Note the database on Mike's main site, Wayne's old "Powdered Donut Database", or Dr. Saxton's "Novel References." That's fair use IIRC.

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Re: SD.net EU Quotation Database

Post by DesertFly » 2009-02-04 07:52pm

I would be interested in helping out on this, assuming that we could use the amount of quotes expected from any one source without fear of legal action. I have a fair collection of Star Wars novels, and occasionally pick up more.

Perhaps someone at Lucasfilm could be contacted, just to make sure we're in the clear?
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Re: SD.net EU Quotation Database

Post by Balrog » 2009-02-05 01:13pm

The Original Nex wrote:Well you can use quotes for the purposes of analysis. Note the database on Mike's main site, Wayne's old "Powdered Donut Database", or Dr. Saxton's "Novel References." That's fair use IIRC.
Indeed, that is exactly what I had in mind. Quoting small portions of a book for analysis is perfectly legal in terms of copyright law, and if no one at LucasFilm Ltd. has bother to get Saxton's or Wayne's collections pulled, I doubt they'd care too much about this one.
'Ai! ai!' wailed Legolas. 'A Balrog! A Balrog is come!'
Gimli stared with wide eyes. 'Durin's Bane!' he cried, and letting his axe fall he covered his face.
'A Balrog,' muttered Gandalf. 'Now I understand.' He faltered and leaned heavily on his staff. 'What an evil fortune! And I am already weary.'
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Re: SD.net EU Quotation Database

Post by Darth Ruinus » 2009-02-05 02:32pm

Kodiak wrote:Sounds like what you're proposing is some sort of SW.wiki site that can be updated by qualified persons to contain the copious amounts of SW facts and data available. I don't think this would violate copyright, as long as facts contained in the books are published and not direct content.
It also sounds like this can just be added on to the Imperial wiki we already have going on.
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Re: SD.net EU Quotation Database

Post by apocolypse » 2009-02-06 09:39am

It's a good idea. I had thought about attempting something similar a long time ago when I still did a lot of vs debates, but due to the size of the EU, after a while I was more along the lines of "fuck that, it's too much". :)

I'd help out with at least a couple books. I've only mostly got the sourcebooks and tech stuff, but I can always check out some from the library if needed.

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Re: SD.net EU Quotation Database

Post by Balrog » 2009-02-08 01:54pm

Darth Ruinus wrote:
Kodiak wrote:Sounds like what you're proposing is some sort of SW.wiki site that can be updated by qualified persons to contain the copious amounts of SW facts and data available. I don't think this would violate copyright, as long as facts contained in the books are published and not direct content.
It also sounds like this can just be added on to the Imperial wiki we already have going on.
Perhaps they could just be uploaded to the wiki as articles themselves, but I know not many people have accounts for it, and simply posting them on the forums would be easier. I definitely see it as a way to help out the wiki by providing canon information with which it can use.

Since there seems to be some support, do you think it'd be better for people to just cover whatever material they have, or focus on a specific era of SW; i.e. Clone War, Post-ROTJ, NJO, etc?
'Ai! ai!' wailed Legolas. 'A Balrog! A Balrog is come!'
Gimli stared with wide eyes. 'Durin's Bane!' he cried, and letting his axe fall he covered his face.
'A Balrog,' muttered Gandalf. 'Now I understand.' He faltered and leaned heavily on his staff. 'What an evil fortune! And I am already weary.'
- J.R.R Tolkien, The Fellowship of the Ring

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Re: SD.net EU Quotation Database

Post by Marko Dash » 2009-02-09 08:31pm

apocolypse wrote:It's a good idea. I had thought about attempting something similar a long time ago when I still did a lot of vs debates, but due to the size of the EU, after a while I was more along the lines of "fuck that, it's too much". :)

I'd help out with at least a couple books. I've only mostly got the sourcebooks and tech stuff, but I can always check out some from the library if needed.

It's possible, if only because of the shear size of the member base here, even if you only get a small precentange to actually do anything.

I'm assuming we're looking for passages about starship, weapon, and manufacturing capabilities in particular?
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Re: SD.net EU Quotation Database

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2009-02-09 08:40pm

Well, I can start putting up quotes from The Last Command any time, but I don't own the rest of the Thrawn Trilogy, so someone else will have to cover that.

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Re: SD.net EU Quotation Database

Post by apocolypse » 2009-02-09 09:46pm

Marko Dash wrote:
apocolypse wrote:It's a good idea. I had thought about attempting something similar a long time ago when I still did a lot of vs debates, but due to the size of the EU, after a while I was more along the lines of "fuck that, it's too much". :)

I'd help out with at least a couple books. I've only mostly got the sourcebooks and tech stuff, but I can always check out some from the library if needed.

It's possible, if only because of the shear size of the member base here, even if you only get a small precentange to actually do anything.

I'm assuming we're looking for passages about starship, weapon, and manufacturing capabilities in particular?
I was thinking more broadly in scope personally. What you listed it a big piece, but I assumed technology, planets, politics, and other such topics would be part of it. I suppose Balrog would probably have to elaborate on what the main points to discuss would be. I guess the other problem is that if the scope is too broad, then we run the potential of "overkill" or whatnot.

Also, Balrog, would it be easier if we just told you what we owned so that there is no duplication? Like I mentioned earlier, I have very little in the way of novels, but have a good deal of tech/sourcebooks. Between school and work though, my contributions may be a bit limited. :( :D

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Re: SD.net EU Quotation Database

Post by Balrog » 2009-02-10 04:44pm

Sure, at this point I'm thinking people just list what books they intend to cover and work from there. As far as what to look for, again I suggest looking at the categories used in Wong's database:
  • Naval Weapons
    Naval Tactics
    Shields and Forcefields
    Propulsion
    Sensors
    Ground Combat
    Power
    Size and Scope
    Communications
    Androids and Computers
    Design
    Culture
    Realism
    The Force
    Misc.
Feel free to add others, or trim some if you don't think them relevant.
'Ai! ai!' wailed Legolas. 'A Balrog! A Balrog is come!'
Gimli stared with wide eyes. 'Durin's Bane!' he cried, and letting his axe fall he covered his face.
'A Balrog,' muttered Gandalf. 'Now I understand.' He faltered and leaned heavily on his staff. 'What an evil fortune! And I am already weary.'
- J.R.R Tolkien, The Fellowship of the Ring

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Re: SD.net EU Quotation Database

Post by Connor MacLeod » 2009-02-11 02:18pm

I did this sort of long long ago, when I was still participating in SB and acquainted with many more ASVSers, but I fell out of it because it was too bloody time consuming. As it is, I'm already involved in 40K heavily, and I can't really be bothered to be too involved in SW anymore.

That said, I can tell you a few things. Transcribing is a pain in the butt. And a big problem - something you have to watch out for, is that one's ability to determine what is useful to analysis depends heavily on one's real world knowledge (scientific is esp important for calcs.) There have been numerous times I analyzed a book, then went over it, realizing I'd missed useful or key tidbits or something quantifiable because of ignorance.

That said, I may have random quotes squirreled away somewhere. Most I think dealt with relatavistic acceleration stuff and simple calcs (Grand Isle from X-wing), as well as lightspeed aceleration and numerous weapons range ones. But they're squirreled away somewhere on my HD and it would take time looking.

I could also probably give you general ideas where to look for specific things for most of the pre NJO novels and some of the essential guides. I still have kind of a good memory for details like small arms firepower, capital ship firepower, sensors, etc.

If anyone is REALLY interested in covering a specific novel, or specific novels, I suggest they simply shoot me a PM and I'll try to remember what I can about what to look for. HEll, I may try to give a broad idea of what a person can look for in various novels as I do, just to be helpful.

Also, if someone is serious about covering a book quote, they may also want to shoot me a PM, as I have some, ahh... "suggestions" that could greatly simplify such measures.

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Re: SD.net EU Quotation Database

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2009-02-11 03:36pm

Balrog wrote:Sure, at this point I'm thinking people just list what books they intend to cover and work from there.
Ok, put me down for The Last Command.

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Re: SD.net EU Quotation Database

Post by Balrog » 2009-02-15 11:43am

To keep things organized, if you do get done with a book just post it in this thread, rather than having them all over the board. Could also use some people with scanners covering the comics as well.
'Ai! ai!' wailed Legolas. 'A Balrog! A Balrog is come!'
Gimli stared with wide eyes. 'Durin's Bane!' he cried, and letting his axe fall he covered his face.
'A Balrog,' muttered Gandalf. 'Now I understand.' He faltered and leaned heavily on his staff. 'What an evil fortune! And I am already weary.'
- J.R.R Tolkien, The Fellowship of the Ring

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Re: SD.net EU Quotation Database

Post by Connor MacLeod » 2009-02-15 07:02pm

That'll get too bulky too fast, especially if you get people doing discussions of various books. Look at what I've been doing with 40K, even with a few pages the pre-NJO stuff alone could arguably get to many tens of pages.

I suggest you do separate threads for each book, and then create some sort of sticky linking to the variosu books. Its much simpller that way.

I wouldn't worry about comics for now. That tends to be alot more unwieldy as evidence and it rarely has stuff you can actually quantify.

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Re: SD.net EU Quotation Database

Post by The Romulan Republic » 2009-02-15 09:40pm

Would it be better to do this in the Fanfics section? I can't help but think that the presence of an edit button might be beneficial for this project.

Of course, it isn't really fanfiction, so I'm not sure that would be appropriate. Just a suggestion.

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Re: SD.net EU Quotation Database

Post by His Divine Shadow » 2009-02-18 06:45am

I got my database around from my old site as an SQL dump file somewhere, if anyone wants it, I think I had almost a thousand excerpts.
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Re: SD.net EU Quotation Database

Post by Vympel » 2011-01-28 09:03pm

Added CW Campaign Guide.
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Re: SD.net EU Quotation Database

Post by Balrog » 2015-02-08 11:31am

Well, things have certainly changed while I was gone...

While I disagreed at first with the entire splitting of the SW canon into its two present continuities, I believe (and hope) in the end the fresh slate this provides will be put to some good use. At the same time, I have a sneaking suspicion that a great many elements of the old EU will be incorporated into the new continuity, if only because sometimes writers are lazy. What's more, I hold out hope the explicitly of how everything moving forward is part of the same continuity, and how everything prior is equally as well, will finally put an end to the endless fight over what is and isn't canon.

As far as this abandoned database is concerned, I intend to start adding entries, not on a regular basis, but as I can, and I would welcome others to add to it as well. While adding in Legends stuff is welcomed and I may include some, I will primarily focus on the new continuity, not least of which because it will be a lot easier to keep abreast of.
'Ai! ai!' wailed Legolas. 'A Balrog! A Balrog is come!'
Gimli stared with wide eyes. 'Durin's Bane!' he cried, and letting his axe fall he covered his face.
'A Balrog,' muttered Gandalf. 'Now I understand.' He faltered and leaned heavily on his staff. 'What an evil fortune! And I am already weary.'
- J.R.R Tolkien, The Fellowship of the Ring

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