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You command the Battle of Crait (RAR).

Posted: 2019-03-04 03:46am
by The Romulan Republic
Much has been made of the Battle of Crait, and harsh criticisms have been leveled at the commanding officers on both sides. While the reasons for the outcome, and who is to blame, can be debated, what cannot be debated is that both fleets came out of the battle gravely weakened, indeed crippled- arguably with no clear winner. The First Order lost its Supreme Leader, its capital/command ship, and most of its fleet, and humiliatingly failed to destroy the last of the Resistance. The Resistance lost all of its ships, all of its fighters, indeed every ship but a single modified freighter (albeit a very bad ass freighter ;) ). It also lost nearly all its people and equipment, at least two admirals, and the last Jedi Master in the galaxy.

So, with the advantage of hindsight, how would you do better?

Scenario 1) You command the Resistance fleet. You take command immediately after hyperring into the Crait system. You are theoretically answerable to Leia, but she will not overrule your battle plans unless you do something blatantly suicidal or evil.

Scenario 2) You command the First Order fleet. You are theoretically answerable to Snoke, but as long as you remain loyal and follow the broad strategic goals of the First Order, you are free to act however you see fit.

What do you do?

Re: You command the Battle of Crait (RAR).

Posted: 2019-03-04 11:14am
by KraytKing
To clarify: Crait is the salt planet, yes? The reason I ask is because I thought the Resistance flew there sublight instead of hyperspace.

Re: You command the Battle of Crait (RAR).

Posted: 2019-03-04 01:38pm
by FaxModem1
Yeah, on the Resistance side, we're getting command of the Resistance fleet after it's been completely destroyed and have only moments to set up defenses before the First Order brings in their fleet to destroy us.

On the First Order side, Snoke is already dead, so his concerns are already moot.

Re: You command the Battle of Crait (RAR).

Posted: 2019-03-04 01:46pm
by Crazedwraith
FaxModem1 wrote: 2019-03-04 01:38pm Yeah, on the Resistance side, we're getting command of the Resistance fleet after it's been completely destroyed and have only moments to set up defenses before the First Order brings in their fleet to destroy us.

On the First Order side, Snoke is already dead, so his concerns are already moot.
According to OP you start your command at the start of the chase in the Crait System not the battle on the planet itself.

Re: You command the Battle of Crait (RAR).

Posted: 2019-03-04 01:50pm
by FaxModem1
Crazedwraith wrote: 2019-03-04 01:46pm
FaxModem1 wrote: 2019-03-04 01:38pm Yeah, on the Resistance side, we're getting command of the Resistance fleet after it's been completely destroyed and have only moments to set up defenses before the First Order brings in their fleet to destroy us.

On the First Order side, Snoke is already dead, so his concerns are already moot.
According to OP you start your command at the start of the chase in the Crait System not the battle on the planet itself.
After hypering into the Crait system. Both fleets took the slow way, but by the point they reach the Crait system, it's all over anyway.

If we're starting at the beginning of the film, in a completely different solar system, then that's a different story.

Re: You command the Battle of Crait (RAR).

Posted: 2019-03-04 04:35pm
by KraytKing
I agree with FaxModem1. The OP is a little ambiguous as to when and where we take control. If it's immediately after the First Order hypers in with the Dreadnought, then it becomes different entirely for both sides.

Re: You command the Battle of Crait (RAR).

Posted: 2019-03-04 04:53pm
by The Romulan Republic
KraytKing wrote: 2019-03-04 11:14am To clarify: Crait is the salt planet, yes? The reason I ask is because I thought the Resistance flew there sublight instead of hyperspace.
Yup.

And they hypered into the system (for some reason dropping out of hyper on the edge of the system rather than closer in, which is probably the chief plot hole of the film*), and then covered the remaining distance at STL, while fighting a running battle with the First Order.
Crazedwraith wrote: 2019-03-04 01:46pm
FaxModem1 wrote: 2019-03-04 01:38pm Yeah, on the Resistance side, we're getting command of the Resistance fleet after it's been completely destroyed and have only moments to set up defenses before the First Order brings in their fleet to destroy us.

On the First Order side, Snoke is already dead, so his concerns are already moot.
According to OP you start your command at the start of the chase in the Crait System not the battle on the planet itself.
This.
KraytKing wrote: 2019-03-04 04:35pm I agree with FaxModem1. The OP is a little ambiguous as to when and where we take control. If it's immediately after the First Order hypers in with the Dreadnought, then it becomes different entirely for both sides.
Here is a video showing the Resistance fleet at various points throughout the film chronologically:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTW74MJQW2Y

You take command at 55 seconds, as the Raadus and escorts arrive in the Crait system after hyperring away from the FO fleet at the start of the film. Snoke's fleet will arrive, with his command ship, shortly.


*If I was going to hypothesize, I would say that they wanted to make a stealthy approach to the planet, since the intention was for no one to know that they're there. But given that its an uninhabited world, and they didn't believe they could be tracked through hyper until the FO did it, that's a bit hard to buy.


Edit: Watching that clip, wow, I'd forgotten how gorgeous a lot of the effects and cinematography for TLJ were. Say what you will about the plot, its a damn pretty film to look at.

Re: You command the Battle of Crait (RAR).

Posted: 2019-03-04 05:16pm
by Solauren
Resistance Fleet Commander -
Evac goes forward as in movie. Except, as ships are evac'd, instead of leaving them for target practice, have a droid aim them at the Supremacy (Snooke's ship), and hyperjump into it, aiming for the main reactor.

Why waste all those ships to target practice?

First Order Fleet Commander -
Plot the Resistance's course, and destination. (It had to be fucking obvious, they did it in less then 2 - 3 days at sublight)
Jump 1/3 of the Star Destroyers to their destination. Locate their destination, and destroy it.
Jump the other 2/3 to a point a few minutes along the resistance flight path. If possible, time the jump so the Resistance moved into weapons range maybe 30 seconds later. (This obviously requires some planning). In effect, Trap them between the Supremacy and 20 Star Destroyers.

Toss General Hux out the airlock while I'm at it. Whiny little bitch.

Re: You command the Battle of Crait (RAR).

Posted: 2019-03-04 05:19pm
by FaxModem1
Okay, so after Poe has destroyed the dreadnought 'fleet killer', and subsequently gotten the majority of bombers and fighters destroyed, and the First Order fleet can track them through hyperspace through technobabble.

As the First Order, simple, make a pincer with my forces, and bottleneck the Resistance into a killzone that they can't get out of. There, done. The Resistance is dead. Long Live Snoke, whoever the hell he is. Maybe use an Interdictor if I have one to prevent them from escaping again.

As the Resistance, tell Poe to focus on getting us reinforcements, supplies, and safe places to go. Send off the two other ships in other directions, seeing if they can do the same. Since they can only track the Raddus. Preferably, finding a New Republic fleet we can join and fight with. If not, hiring a few mercenaries or bounty hunters would be a possibility, as Leia is supposed to be loaded. Best case scenario, they bring in additional forces to scare away the First Order away from us and give us more breathing room. Worst case scenario, we get resupplied with fuel that we can ferret over with transports to refuel the Raddus, ensuring that we can run away.

Also turn off external comms and ensure that only outgoing calls can be made from on-board the Raddus bridge. I don't think there's a traitor, but I'd rather cut off that possibility.

Once we're resupplied, find a local place that will help us against the First Order. Maybe Naboo or someplace else has a defense fleet that can help us. if, for whatever reason, we really are the ONLY fleet that's against the First Order, start going crazy places to even their numbers, like the asteroid field near Bespin, the asteroid field of what used to be Alderaan, the navigational nightmare of the Kessel Run, etc. Fight smart, not hard.

If friendly locations, or navigational hazards aren't available, how about unfriendly locations? Let's divide First Order attention and take them through some Pirate areas or where the Hutts are. I'm sure they wouldn't be happy about having to deal with little fascists running around blowing up their prize locations. Let's see if the First Order fleet, can stomach us stirring up a hornet's nest.

More to come.

Re: You command the Battle of Crait (RAR).

Posted: 2019-03-04 05:22pm
by Rogue 9
Easy, in both cases. For the Resistance: Upon the arrival of the First Order and the start of the chase, I dispatch the shuttle that Finn and Rose stole in the original timeline (before they have a chance to do so) to buy some gas. Upon its return with enough fuel to run my fleet for years, I proceed to leave the First Order in the dust.

For the First Order: Engage the Raddus first. The transports aren't going anywhere. Having the Star Destroyers do something useful by jumping ahead of the fleeing Resistance fleet is optional for a successful outcome, but heavily favored.

Re: You command the Battle of Crait (RAR).

Posted: 2019-03-04 05:37pm
by Batman
Methinks using resources outside the actual movie is cheating.
Good idea though

Re: You command the Battle of Crait (RAR).

Posted: 2019-03-04 05:38pm
by Crazedwraith
Or use the communicator that can talk to Mas to get the word to the vaunted Rebel Allies to get them to help. Ring them up one at time or pay people you can reach to talk to others. Use the shuttles or the corvette as couriers. Something.

Or since I'm the evil empire in the other scenario send wave after wave of my own men TIE Fighters to harass the Rebel fleet regardless of whether the capships can support or not. Even missiles from Ren's wingmen were blowing chunks out of Raddus and constant harassment will hinder The Resistance's resistance and any plans they have. We have lots of destroyers and therefore many many fighters. They may die but it's a sacrifice I'm willing to make. As I said: Evil Empire.

Re: You command the Battle of Crait (RAR).

Posted: 2019-03-04 05:42pm
by FaxModem1
Batman wrote: 2019-03-04 05:37pm Methinks using resources outside the actual movie is cheating.
Good idea though
I refuse to believe that buying fuel, the thing we're slowly running out of, is considered cheating. Do they not have fuel stations in the Star Wars galaxy?

Re: You command the Battle of Crait (RAR).

Posted: 2019-03-04 05:44pm
by Gandalf
FaxModem1 wrote: 2019-03-04 05:42pm
Batman wrote: 2019-03-04 05:37pm Methinks using resources outside the actual movie is cheating.
Good idea though
I refuse to believe that buying fuel, the thing we're slowly running out of, is considered cheating. Do they not have fuel stations in the Star Wars galaxy?
Ones willing to sell to a seemingly unpopular Resistance in the face of Space Nazis 2.0 tearing about? If Snoke's fleet takes an humiliating loss, would you risk being the one that supplied the Resistance fleet?

Re: You command the Battle of Crait (RAR).

Posted: 2019-03-04 05:45pm
by FaxModem1
Gandalf wrote: 2019-03-04 05:44pm
FaxModem1 wrote: 2019-03-04 05:42pm
Batman wrote: 2019-03-04 05:37pm Methinks using resources outside the actual movie is cheating.
Good idea though
I refuse to believe that buying fuel, the thing we're slowly running out of, is considered cheating. Do they not have fuel stations in the Star Wars galaxy?
Ones willing to sell to a seemingly unpopular Resistance in the face of Space Nazis 2.0 tearing about? If Snoke's fleet takes an humiliating loss, would you risk being the one that supplied the Resistance fleet?
if their money is good enough.

Re: You command the Battle of Crait (RAR).

Posted: 2019-03-04 05:48pm
by Batman
I refuse to believe that buying fuel, the thing we're slowly running out of, is considered cheating. Do they not have fuel stations in the Star Wars galaxy?
No you are quite right, I just assumed the scenario was 'what would you do given the resources shown in the movie'

Re: You command the Battle of Crait (RAR).

Posted: 2019-03-04 06:24pm
by The Romulan Republic
Solauren wrote: 2019-03-04 05:16pm Resistance Fleet Commander -
Evac goes forward as in movie. Except, as ships are evac'd, instead of leaving them for target practice, have a droid aim them at the Supremacy (Snooke's ship), and hyperjump into it, aiming for the main reactor.

Why waste all those ships to target practice?
I'm not sure I understand you. Are you saying you'd ram the evac transports into Snoke's ship? That would somewhat defeat the purpose of an evacuation, wouldn't it?

Or are you saying you wouldn't evac, but try ramming the enemy fleet instead? That might work, but I'm not sure the smaller ships would have the same effect the Raadus would.

If I was limited to the knowledge of the characters in the film, I doubt I could do much better than they did (beyond maybe posting more than just Rose to prevent desertions, and probably locking Poe in the brig when he threw his tantrum on the bridge). Might try splitting up my forces to see if at least one ship could make it out, but depending on how I was being tracked, they might all just be tracked down and destroyed separately. And that's presuming I wasn't killed in Kylo's initial bombing run.

With hindsight...

-Launch fighters immediately upon entering the system.

-Stay off the bridge.

-Following the initial engagement, presuming it goes much as it did originally (albeit hopefully without me losing all my fighters in the hanger), start preparing a modified evacuation plan.

-More personnel than just Rose will be posted to prevent desertions. Maybe try some moral-boosting efforts, but I don't know if I have the time.

-Finn and Rose and Poe will be kept under supervision and with Finn away from Poe, so they don't try running off to Planet Casino or anything stupid like that.

-Load all personnel and fuel onto the escorts (presuming they can be refueled from the Raadus's tanks, and that there is time to do so). Then have them jump to hyperspace in different directions, while ramming Snoke's ship with the Raadus.

-Alternatively, follow through on the canon plan, with the above modifications.
First Order Fleet Commander -
Plot the Resistance's course, and destination. (It had to be fucking obvious, they did it in less then 2 - 3 days at sublight)
Jump 1/3 of the Star Destroyers to their destination. Locate their destination, and destroy it.
Jump the other 2/3 to a point a few minutes along the resistance flight path. If possible, time the jump so the Resistance moved into weapons range maybe 30 seconds later. (This obviously requires some planning). In effect, Trap them between the Supremacy and 20 Star Destroyers.
How close to the planet can you hyper?

Anyway, there's no need for anything so fancy. Just launch all your fighters and bombers as soon as you enter the system, rather than limiting it to just Kylo and escorts. You'll lose some craft and pilots to anti-fighter guns probably (or maybe not- point defense seems all but useless in the new films), but you'll overwhelm the entire Resistance fleet long before they reach Crait.

Really, Hux's advantage was so massive that all he had to do was not try to get clever and finesse things. Just use the overwhelming force at his disposal.

I mean, if I were in command of the FO fleet I'd probably try to sabotage it and defect, but if you were trying to win in Hux's shoes, that's all you really need to do.
Toss General Hux out the airlock while I'm at it. Whiny little bitch.
Well, Hux's frankly criminal incompetence would have earned him a Force choke under Vader. I guess standards have fallen since the Empire.

Edit: If trying the "stealth evacuation" plan or the ramming plan, I need some big flashy distraction to draw Snoke and Kylo's attention, so their Force precog doesn't sense the real plan coming. In canon, Rey's arrival (and then Snoke's death) served as such a distraction. I'd need to try to engineer one of my own here, unless I simply count on Rey being in the right place at the right time.

Actually, since I am in command of the fleet, I wonder if I can persuade Leia to go join Rey with Luke. Or send a message to Rey recalling her to the fleet. The only distraction that is likely to work would be a rival Force user.

Re: You command the Battle of Crait (RAR).

Posted: 2019-03-04 08:01pm
by FaxModem1
The Romulan Republic wrote: 2019-03-04 06:24pm
Solauren wrote: 2019-03-04 05:16pm Resistance Fleet Commander -
Evac goes forward as in movie. Except, as ships are evac'd, instead of leaving them for target practice, have a droid aim them at the Supremacy (Snooke's ship), and hyperjump into it, aiming for the main reactor.

Why waste all those ships to target practice?
I'm not sure I understand you. Are you saying you'd ram the evac transports into Snoke's ship? That would somewhat defeat the purpose of an evacuation, wouldn't it?

Or are you saying you wouldn't evac, but try ramming the enemy fleet instead? That might work, but I'm not sure the smaller ships would have the same effect the Raadus would.

If I was limited to the knowledge of the characters in the film, I doubt I could do much better than they did (beyond maybe posting more than just Rose to prevent desertions, and probably locking Poe in the brig when he threw his tantrum on the bridge). Might try splitting up my forces to see if at least one ship could make it out, but depending on how I was being tracked, they might all just be tracked down and destroyed separately. And that's presuming I wasn't killed in Kylo's initial bombing run.

With hindsight...

-Launch fighters immediately upon entering the system.

-Stay off the bridge.

-Following the initial engagement, presuming it goes much as it did originally (albeit hopefully without me losing all my fighters in the hanger), start preparing a modified evacuation plan.

-More personnel than just Rose will be posted to prevent desertions. Maybe try some moral-boosting efforts, but I don't know if I have the time.
You have a day(well, 18 hours). Simple busywork will keep their minds occupied, if not their bodies. Or having them round up potential allies from non-engaged systems is possible. If such things exist.
-Finn and Rose and Poe will be kept under supervision and with Finn away from Poe, so they don't try running off to Planet Casino or anything stupid like that.
The best way is to actually have them doing their own thing out of interference, such as having them hire mercenaries, bounty hunters, smugglers, etc. If they can find someone, great. If they don't, they out of your hair and off the ship(and not staging a mutiny).
-Load all personnel and fuel onto the escorts (presuming they can be refueled from the Raadus's tanks, and that there is time to do so). Then have them jump to hyperspace in different directions, while ramming Snoke's ship with the Raadus.
Could work, if you want to sell off the Raddus. I think it's possible to salvage it in this scenario.

Re: You command the Battle of Crait (RAR).

Posted: 2019-03-04 08:42pm
by Solauren
The Romulan Republic wrote: 2019-03-04 06:24pm
Solauren wrote: 2019-03-04 05:16pm Resistance Fleet Commander -
Evac goes forward as in movie. Except, as ships are evac'd, instead of leaving them for target practice, have a droid aim them at the Supremacy (Snooke's ship), and hyperjump into it, aiming for the main reactor.

Why waste all those ships to target practice?
I'm not sure I understand you. Are you saying you'd ram the evac transports into Snoke's ship? That would somewhat defeat the purpose of an evacuation, wouldn't it?

Or are you saying you wouldn't evac, but try ramming the enemy fleet instead? That might work, but I'm not sure the smaller ships would have the same effect the Raadus would.
Evac the smallest capital ship, use it as a hyperspeed ram.
Repeat on the next smallest capital ship.
Repeat until out of Capital ships and are evacing like in the movie.


First Order Fleet Commander -
Plot the Resistance's course, and destination. (It had to be fucking obvious, they did it in less then 2 - 3 days at sublight)
Jump 1/3 of the Star Destroyers to their destination. Locate their destination, and destroy it.
Jump the other 2/3 to a point a few minutes along the resistance flight path. If possible, time the jump so the Resistance moved into weapons range maybe 30 seconds later. (This obviously requires some planning). In effect, Trap them between the Supremacy and 20 Star Destroyers.
How close to the planet can you hyper?
Planetary gravity wells pull ships out of hyperspace. That should be close enough for orbital bombardment.
Anyway, there's no need for anything so fancy. Just launch all your fighters and bombers as soon as you enter the system, rather than limiting it to just Kylo and escorts. You'll lose some craft and pilots to anti-fighter guns probably (or maybe not- point defense seems all but useless in the new films), but you'll overwhelm the entire Resistance fleet long before they reach Crait.
I was going with a combination of 'impress my new boss the Supreme Leader', while at the same time briefly giving the Resistance hope before crushing it. It's the Imperial/First Order way after all.
Really, Hux's advantage was so massive that all he had to do was not try to get clever and finesse things. Just use the overwhelming force at his disposal.
Hux strikes me as the 'I got the highest marks in school, so I was put in charge, now shut up I'm in falliable!' type.

Re: You command the Battle of Crait (RAR).

Posted: 2019-03-05 02:50am
by The Romulan Republic
Rogue 9 wrote: 2019-03-04 05:22pm Easy, in both cases. For the Resistance: Upon the arrival of the First Order and the start of the chase, I dispatch the shuttle that Finn and Rose stole in the original timeline (before they have a chance to do so) to buy some gas. Upon its return with enough fuel to run my fleet for years, I proceed to leave the First Order in the dust.
I am profoundly skeptical that a single shuttle can carry enough fuel to refuel a capital ship, never mind the escorts.

Having the escorts go for fuel is one option that I recall being discussed in earlier threads- that might work. Although it would mean completely stripping the Raadus of escorts in the (admittedly unlikely) event of Hux growing a brain and ordering an all-out fighter attack.
For the First Order: Engage the Raddus first. The transports aren't going anywhere. Having the Star Destroyers do something useful by jumping ahead of the fleeing Resistance fleet is optional for a successful outcome, but heavily favored.
The Supremacy did engage the Raadus first, not the escorts (the transports had not been launched until later in the engagement):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-EJ-IOkXal

The main failing I see here is that apparently only the Supremacy's heavy artillery and Kylo's personal squadron attacked, while the escorts and the presumably hundreds or thousands of other fighters/bombers just sat their and did squat. The absence of interdictors in the fleet composition is also notable. I wonder if I might be able to requisition some interdictors to ensure that none of the Resistance can escape and drag this out any longer.
FaxModem1 wrote: 2019-03-04 08:01pmYou have a day(well, 18 hours). Simple busywork will keep their minds occupied, if not their bodies. Or having them round up potential allies from non-engaged systems is possible. If such things exist.
I don't think the latter is a good use of their talents (nor was sending them on an espionage mission, frankly). Finn is an infantryman, and Rose is an engineer. Neither has a scrap of experience as a diplomat so far as I am aware.

Honestly, if I could talk Leia into leaving the fleet, she'd be by far the best for such a mission (you could send Finn and Rose and Poe as her escorts, along with C3PO- this would have the nice secondary effect of putting multiple lightyears between Poe and Holdo). Or, here's a thought- send Holdo. In this scenario, she won't be in command- you are. Holdo has the seniority to represent the Resistance in negotiations (she's probably the third-ranked officer after Leia and Ackbar), and while the film gives little on her background, her appearance is certainly evocative of aristocracy.
The best way is to actually have them doing their own thing out of interference, such as having them hire mercenaries, bounty hunters, smugglers, etc. If they can find someone, great. If they don't, they out of your hair and off the ship(and not staging a mutiny).
Problem is, again, that it doesn't really fit their skillset and experiences.
Could work, if you want to sell off the Raddus. I think it's possible to salvage it in this scenario.
Maybe, but I'd be willing to trade it for a shot at knocking out Snoke, Kylo, the enemy's capital/command ship, and a good chunk of their fleet. Plus, was the Supremacy able to track only the Raadus specifically, or could it have tracked the escorts as well? If the latter, it has to be destroyed to allow the escorts to escape.
Solauren wrote: 2019-03-04 08:42pmEvac the smallest capital ship, use it as a hyperspeed ram.
Repeat on the next smallest capital ship.
Repeat until out of Capital ships and are evacing like in the movie.
I see. That might work.
Planetary gravity wells pull ships out of hyperspace. That should be close enough for orbital bombardment.
I was thinking more "Will you be able to safely hyper between the planet and the Resistance?"
I was going with a combination of 'impress my new boss the Supreme Leader', while at the same time briefly giving the Resistance hope before crushing it. It's the Imperial/First Order way after all.
Can't argue with that, but I still think that the simpler the plan, the better, as a rule.

It does have the advantage of avoiding casualties to the fighter corps, though I doubt the FO cares much about that.
Hux strikes me as the 'I got the highest marks in school, so I was put in charge, now shut up I'm in falliable!' type.
That and a complete fanatic who's firepower gives him a sense of invincibility, which he likes to show off. And probably someone who got promoted for loyalty to dogma and/or connections, not ability.

He truly is every kind of dip shit.

Re: You command the Battle of Crait (RAR).

Posted: 2019-03-05 04:51am
by FaxModem1
The Romulan Republic wrote: 2019-03-05 02:50am
FaxModem1 wrote: 2019-03-04 08:01pmYou have a day(well, 18 hours). Simple busywork will keep their minds occupied, if not their bodies. Or having them round up potential allies from non-engaged systems is possible. If such things exist.
I don't think the latter is a good use of their talents (nor was sending them on an espionage mission, frankly). Finn is an infantryman, and Rose is an engineer. Neither has a scrap of experience as a diplomat so far as I am aware.

Honestly, if I could talk Leia into leaving the fleet, she'd be by far the best for such a mission (you could send Finn and Rose and Poe as her escorts, along with C3PO- this would have the nice secondary effect of putting multiple lightyears between Poe and Holdo). Or, here's a thought- send Holdo. In this scenario, she won't be in command- you are. Holdo has the seniority to represent the Resistance in negotiations (she's probably the third-ranked officer after Leia and Ackbar), and while the film gives little on her background, her appearance is certainly evocative of aristocracy.
You assume they're mutually exclusive. We have at least three hyperspace capable vessels. That means multiple teams to find reinforcements to fight the ships.
The best way is to actually have them doing their own thing out of interference, such as having them hire mercenaries, bounty hunters, smugglers, etc. If they can find someone, great. If they don't, they out of your hair and off the ship(and not staging a mutiny).
Problem is, again, that it doesn't really fit their skillset and experiences.
Well, if they help Maz with her barfight/contract dispute, I'm sure they could lean on her for help.
Could work, if you want to sell off the Raddus. I think it's possible to salvage it in this scenario.
Maybe, but I'd be willing to trade it for a shot at knocking out Snoke, Kylo, the enemy's capital/command ship, and a good chunk of their fleet. Plus, was the Supremacy able to track only the Raadus specifically, or could it have tracked the escorts as well? If the latter, it has to be destroyed to allow the escorts to escape.
We don't know how hard it is to commit a maneuver like the Raddus achieved. Holdo may have gotten lucky, or she could be such a genius that only someone like her can do it. Or we would see more people committing such maneuvers with ships that are more cost effective, like during the battles of Scarif, Endor, or Hoth.

Better to try and have them get eaten by one of the creatures in the Kessel Run, or lose their entire fighter cover in the Hoth asteroid field.

Re: You command the Battle of Crait (RAR).

Posted: 2019-03-05 05:04am
by The Romulan Republic
Going back to this:
FaxModem1 wrote: 2019-03-04 05:19pm Okay, so after Poe has destroyed the dreadnought 'fleet killer', and subsequently gotten the majority of bombers and fighters destroyed, and the First Order fleet can track them through hyperspace through technobabble.

As the First Order, simple, make a pincer with my forces, and bottleneck the Resistance into a killzone that they can't get out of. There, done. The Resistance is dead. Long Live Snoke, whoever the hell he is. Maybe use an Interdictor if I have one to prevent them from escaping again.
This is basically all you need to do and then some, yeah.

Its not hard to win in the FO's position. In fact, its so easy to win that its actually kind of oddly impressive that they managed to lose. Like, you have to work at it to piss away an advantage that big. :)

This by the way is a big part of why I give the Resistance a pass for the most part on their performance- because they were so outclassed that even surviving at all is impressive. If they'd been up against a competent opponent, they'd have been dead regardless of who was in command or what decisions were made. If the Resistance had been commanded by a composite of Thrawn, Honor Harrington and James Kirk, and the FO fleet had been commanded by, say... Piet, the Resistance would have been dead to a man, probably within the first thirty minutes. They were that outmatched.
As the Resistance, tell Poe to focus on getting us reinforcements, supplies, and safe places to go. Send off the two other ships in other directions, seeing if they can do the same. Since they can only track the Raddus. Preferably, finding a New Republic fleet we can join and fight with. If not, hiring a few mercenaries or bounty hunters would be a possibility, as Leia is supposed to be loaded. Best case scenario, they bring in additional forces to scare away the First Order away from us and give us more breathing room. Worst case scenario, we get resupplied with fuel that we can ferret over with transports to refuel the Raddus, ensuring that we can run away.

Also turn off external comms and ensure that only outgoing calls can be made from on-board the Raddus bridge. I don't think there's a traitor, but I'd rather cut off that possibility.

Once we're resupplied, find a local place that will help us against the First Order. Maybe Naboo or someplace else has a defense fleet that can help us. if, for whatever reason, we really are the ONLY fleet that's against the First Order, start going crazy places to even their numbers, like the asteroid field near Bespin, the asteroid field of what used to be Alderaan, the navigational nightmare of the Kessel Run, etc. Fight smart, not hard.

If friendly locations, or navigational hazards aren't available, how about unfriendly locations? Let's divide First Order attention and take them through some Pirate areas or where the Hutts are. I'm sure they wouldn't be happy about having to deal with little fascists running around blowing up their prize locations. Let's see if the First Order fleet, can stomach us stirring up a hornet's nest.

More to come.
All solid enough in theory, though viability depends on a lot of details about the overall galactic situation. My preference would be to keep my precious few ships away from death traps like Kessel, though trying to bait the FO into causing a Hutt uprising is an admittedly appealing thought.
Batman wrote: 2019-03-04 05:37pm Methinks using resources outside the actual movie is cheating.
Good idea though
Not cheating, no.

If you can come up with a way to plausibly use your initial resources to acquire/produce additional resources, that's fair game, in my opinion.

Edit: FaxModem1 posted again while I was writing this response, so here's my reply to that post as well:
FaxModem1 wrote: 2019-03-05 04:51amYou assume they're mutually exclusive. We have at least three hyperspace capable vessels. That means multiple teams to find reinforcements to fight the ships.
Technically, at the start, I believe you have:

-1 hyperspace-capable cruiser (the Raadus), with fuel for one more jump.
-2 hyperspace-capable frigates (the escorts), with fuel for one more jump.
-At least 1 hyperspace-capable shuttle (the one Finn and Rose stole), good for at least two jumps (since they clearly expected to be able to return).
-About 1 squadron(?) of one-man fighters (Rebel/Resistance fighters are generally hyper-capable), fuel reserves unknown. This is presuming you can avoid them getting blow up in the hanger bay.

-The Falcon (if you recall Rey or she returns on her own).
Well, if they help Maz with her barfight/contract dispute, I'm sure they could lean on her for help.
There's a thought, though having the heroes play Space Union-Busters might not be good optics. :wink:
We don't know how hard it is to commit a maneuver like the Raddus achieved. Holdo may have gotten lucky, or she could be such a genius that only someone like her can do it. Or we would see more people committing such maneuvers with ships that are more cost effective, like during the battles of Scarif, Endor, or Hoth.
Why, I believe that's the nicest thing you've ever said about Holdo. :)

I seem to recall some handwave about the Raadus having special shielding. There's no indication that Holdo is such a phenomenal pilot that she alone could do it, so I think we have to assume its something the Raadus can do but that most ships can't, or else that it simply doesn't happen much for the same reason suicide bombings aren't a regular part of doctrine for most militaries in real life- people are reluctant to commit suicide or order others to commit suicide, and its culturally frowned on as anything but a last-ditch maneuver.
Better to try and have them get eaten by one of the creatures in the Kessel Run, or lose their entire fighter cover in the Hoth asteroid field.
Downside: Your ships are smaller and presumably more digestible/smashable, while still being too big to effectively dodge asteroids.

Re: You command the Battle of Crait (RAR).

Posted: 2019-03-05 05:10am
by FaxModem1
I'm assuming that the Galactic situation is that someone, somewhere, gives at least as much of a crap as Leia and company. Or is at least neutral enough about it to be pissed off if the First Order comes into their neck of the woods guns blazing. It's rather stretching belief that less than half a dozen capital ships and their assorted crews within make up the entire population of the galaxy who are willing to fight back and have the resources to do so.

Or at least I hope so, otherwise, Leia and company might as well as pull a Galactica and find a nicer galaxy to settle in.

Re: You command the Battle of Crait (RAR).

Posted: 2019-03-05 05:13am
by The Romulan Republic
FaxModem1 wrote: 2019-03-05 05:10am I'm assuming that the Galactic situation is that someone, somewhere, gives at least as much of a crap as Leia and company. Or is at least neutral enough about it to be pissed off if the First Order comes into their neck of the woods guns blazing. It's rather stretching belief that less than half a dozen capital ships and their assorted crews within make up the entire population of the galaxy who are willing to fight back and have the resources to do so.

Or at least I hope so, otherwise, Leia and company might as well as pull a Galactica and find a nicer galaxy to settle in.
Fair enough, I'm just wondering who the best people to reach out to would be. Leia did refer to allies they could contact, so there must be at least some influential people and/or sizeable populations that are at least somewhat sympathetic to the cause (I'm guessing one of them will turn out to be Lando, since he's going to be in the next film). But we don't know the details.

I mean, maybe the Hutts in this era are quite happy to be selling weapons to the FO and not interested in risking their profits on a revolution for the sake of territorial pride. And so on.

Re: You command the Battle of Crait (RAR).

Posted: 2019-03-05 04:32pm
by Rogue 9
The Romulan Republic wrote: 2019-03-05 02:50am
Rogue 9 wrote: 2019-03-04 05:22pm Easy, in both cases. For the Resistance: Upon the arrival of the First Order and the start of the chase, I dispatch the shuttle that Finn and Rose stole in the original timeline (before they have a chance to do so) to buy some gas. Upon its return with enough fuel to run my fleet for years, I proceed to leave the First Order in the dust.
I am profoundly skeptical that a single shuttle can carry enough fuel to refuel a capital ship, never mind the escorts.
You can be as skeptical as you want; it's canon per Solo that the fuel to run half a dozen Star Destroyers for a significant operational period fits into two Wookiee-portable suitcases.