SW jamming systems

[Darth Ruinus]

I keep hearing that SW jamming systems distort space and time, or something along those lines, where is this from?

[Vympel]

ANH novelization - the Death Star's "distortion field" generators reduce maneuverability in the vicinity (as well as fucking with scopes and instruments).

The counter-argument used by some is that the distortion field's effect on Rebel instruments affects maneuverability, rather than any actual distortion field inhibiting them.

[Darth Massacrus]

ANH novelization - the Death Star's "distortion field" generators reduce maneuverability in the vicinity (as well as fucking with scopes and instruments).

The counter-argument used by some is that the distortion field's effect on Rebel instruments affects maneuverability, rather than any actual distortion field inhibiting them.

Is that the 'magnetic field' that the rebel fighters passed through in ANH?

[Vympel]

No, that was the permeable (at certain speeds) outer shield. The distortion generators created their effect closer to the surface - especially in and around the trench, according to the novel.

[Connor MacLeod]

We also know the "distortion field" generators mentioned were not the outer shields by the fact that the Rebels had countermeasures allowing them to get through to attack the Death Star (they were mentioned explicitly.)

If the distorition field generators were the same thing as the "mag field/outer shield", then the countermeasures would have helped against that as well.

[The Prime Necromancer]

Here's the actual quote. It's on page 148 of my copy:

"Also, their field generators will probably create a lot of distortion, especially in and around the trench. I figure that maneuverability in that sector will be less than point three."

Just throwing this out, but has anybody considered the idea that these "field generators" aren't meant as ECM at all, but rather are part of the repulsorlift system? After all, according to general relativity, "spacetime distortion" is synonymous with gravity. Also "field generator" is pretty vague. It is not made clear if the distortions it creates (and the resulting hit to maneuverability) are its primary function or merely a byproduct, particularly since Dodonna seems uncertain as to exactly how much distortion they produce (you'd think if they were purposefully made to create it he'd sound far more certain) . Add to that the fact that we know that the Death Star's defenses were not made with anti-fighter protection in mind, and that the Death Star does have antigrav capability (earlier in the novel it is specifically mentioned when the DS enters Alderaan's antigrav range), and I think it's an interesting possibility.

[Cykeisme]

That's a very good point.

Odd how spacetime distortion through jamming fields sounds exotic and amazing, when we fail to consider gravity-manipulation repulsorlift technology is commonplace in SW!

Assuming it's an intentionally designed anti-starfighter defense, if a "tractor beam" is a tightly focused effect, the "jamming" that reduces the maneuverability of the fighters could be some kind of wide-area effect application of the same technology.

As you pointed out, however, it's likely that it's just a side-effect of the Death Star's navigational repulsorlifts rather than an intentional defensive system, since the entire battle station was designed with little regard to starfighter attack (e.g. the lack of point-defense guns capable of engaging targets with high acceleration etc).

[Connor MacLeod]

Repulsor lifts of some ships can arguably exert force on a target, but not neccesarily. A good canonical example is TPM when Jar Jar and Qui-Gon (or is it Obi-Wan) dive flat to the ground and are "run over" by a Tradefed repulsor vehicle (one of the large ones, the toop carrier I think) and are completely unharmed. The grass underneath the things isnt even disturbed.

[The Prime Necromancer]

Odd how spacetime distortion through jamming fields sounds exotic and amazing, when we fail to consider gravity-manipulation repulsorlift technology is commonplace in SW!

Yes, that's the way I originally thought of it too. Then I remembered about repulsorlift and realized it's not so weird or unusual.

Repulsor lifts of some ships can arguably exert force on a target, but not neccesarily. A good canonical example is TPM when Jar Jar and Qui-Gon (or is it Obi-Wan) dive flat to the ground and are "run over" by a Tradefed repulsor vehicle (one of the large ones, the toop carrier I think) and are completely unharmed. The grass underneath the things isnt even disturbed.

You're right that all of the obvious repulsorlift use we've seen in the films doesn't seem to exert force on the ground beneath, but could it be a matter of scale? Perhaps it takes truly massive repulsorlift arrays like the kind you would need to move the DS to create noticeable effect on a target?

Indeed, that kind of brings up a question I've been wondering about. I believe the current theory of repulsorlift operation is that they push off of very large masses, which is why they only work near planets. This also keeps them from being reactionless drives, since essentially the planet is acting as the reaction mass. However, shouldn't that affect the planet? Particularly if enough repulsorlift systems are "using" it at once?

[Connor MacLeod]

You're right that all of the obvious repulsorlift use we've seen in the films doesn't seem to exert force on the ground beneath, but could it be a matter of scale? Perhaps it takes truly massive repulsorlift arrays like the kind you would need to move the DS to create noticeable effect on a target?

Indeed, that kind of brings up a question I've been wondering about. I believe the current theory of repulsorlift operation is that they push off of very large masses, which is why they only work near planets. This also keeps them from being reactionless drives, since essentially the planet is acting as the reaction mass. However, shouldn't that affect the planet? Particularly if enough repulsorlift systems are "using" it at once?

It might - some repulsors could arguably exert "force" in the sense if they're holding up truly huge masses (the Death Star 2 over Endor is an example, the repulsor holding it up caused huge enviromental effects due to its mass.), but this isn't the same as "actively" pushing. Moreover, those transports in TPM were fucking huge, and probably quite heavy (many tnes of tons easily I imagine, even factoring in the battle droids alone.) - I doubt anyone could survive being "pushed on" by something that massive.

As I said, some repulsors do seem to "push" in some way (the Falcon near the Neutron Star in "Rebel Dawn" is a good example.) but that's not always the case.

In the "Repulsors that push" context I would suppose you are rpobably talking more about something akin to a tractor beam or a repuslor beam (which are used as weapons, propulsion elements, etc.), save the effect is more unidirectonal than focused.

They could still, however, interfere with sensors in some fashion (redirecting or distorting/disrupting the sensor beams, for example.)

[Darth Ruinus]

tractor beam or a repuslor beam (which are used as weapons, propulsion elements, etc.), save the effect is more unidirectonal than focused.

They can be used as weapons? I havent heard of this, how do they function as weapons?

[Mad]

Repulsorlifts seem to operate by interacting with a gravity field, given that they require gravity in order to work and that they don't exert a noticeable force on other objects. (Similarly, you can have two magnets pushing each other away and stick your hand between them and not feel the pushing, because your hand isn't interacting with the magnetic field as strongly as the magnets are.)

Starfighters probably don't generate a gravity field strong enough to be affected by repulsorlifts.

[Ritterin Sophia]

Repulsorlifts seem to operate by interacting with a gravity field, given that they require gravity in order to work and that they don't exert a noticeable force on other objects. (Similarly, you can have two magnets pushing each other away and stick your hand between them and not feel the pushing, because your hand isn't interacting with the magnetic field as strongly as the magnets are.)

Starfighters probably don't generate a gravity field strong enough to be affected by repulsorlifts.

That doesn't sound right, isn't Center Point Station described as a giant repulsorlift?

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

The Truce of Bakura source book mentions the use of radioactive waste used to distort Imperial communications. Apparently Rebels were more used to the lack of good C4I that Ackbar devised the tactic to screw the Imperials up.

[Tychu]

Here's the actual quote. It's on page 148 of my copy:

"Also, their field generators will probably create a lot of distortion, especially in and around the trench. I figure that maneuverability in that sector will be less than point three."

Just throwing this out, but has anybody considered the idea that these "field generators" aren't meant as ECM at all, but rather are part of the repulsorlift system? After all, according to general relativity, "spacetime distortion" is synonymous with gravity. Also "field generator" is pretty vague. It is not made clear if the distortions it creates (and the resulting hit to maneuverability) are its primary function or merely a byproduct, particularly since Dodonna seems uncertain as to exactly how much distortion they produce (you'd think if they were purposefully made to create it he'd sound far more certain) . Add to that the fact that we know that the Death Star's defenses were not made with anti-fighter protection in mind, and that the Death Star does have antigrav capability (earlier in the novel it is specifically mentioned when the DS enters Alderaan's antigrav range), and I think it's an interesting possibility.

It's been some time since I read the novel and forgot all about this. It does however answer some problems that I think most people (star wars fans or not) have. Like why was it so hard for the Rebels to manuver in the trench. I mean Luke "had the force" when Vader was ready to blow him out of the sky. His little scrambling manuver is down dozens of times in the other movies and it seems Vader has to adjust his targeting computer to strike at the Rebels. They should have kept the Field Generator comment in the movie

[Connor MacLeod]

The Truce of Bakura source book mentions the use of radioactive waste used to distort Imperial communications. Apparently Rebels were more used to the lack of good C4I that Ackbar devised the tactic to screw the Imperials up.

That was from the wreckage of Ssi-Ruuk ships. And they used some bizarre "heavy fusionables" or some such as I recall.

[Connor MacLeod]

tractor beam or a repuslor beam (which are used as weapons, propulsion elements, etc.), save the effect is more unidirectonal than focused.

They can be used as weapons? I havent heard of this, how do they function as weapons?

Centerpoint was a repulsor weapon. Some SW race I forget had some sort of man-portable tractor-pressor weapon. There was mention of tractor-pressuor beams in the Lando Calrissian adventures novels. They're the good old "push/pull at the target rapidly to tear it to pieces" type weapons.

Its not all that unusual. The AOTC:ICS mentions the Geonosian fighters and Dooku's sailer as having a buttload of individual tractor/repulsor beams, and IIRC they were used both as weapons and manuvering aides.

[Connor MacLeod]

That doesn't sound right, isn't Center Point Station described as a giant repulsorlift?

... And as I got done saying before, there's clearly more than oine kind of repulsor. Some work the way Mad describes, and some seem to exert more tangible force.

[Batman]

There was mention of tractor-pressuor beams in the Lando Calrissian adventures novels.

Do you know which one? Because I sure as hell don't remember that from the Lando Calrissian trilogy.

[Connor MacLeod]

There was mention of tractor-pressuor beams in the Lando Calrissian adventures novels.

Do you know which one? Because I sure as hell don't remember that from the Lando Calrissian trilogy.

The Last one with the Oswaft. As I remember, one of the Naval officers makes mention of all the kinds of weapons that will work against the organic space whales, and tractor-pressors is one of them (as are if I recall disintegator beams and disruptors, and I think one other weapon.)

[Batman]

Much obliged.