Re: New Redletter Media video about Lucas
Posted: 2011-12-05 11:00pm
Okay, but that could as easily make her someone who mouths words about democracy, but when the chips are down, turns to any means to resolve problems, as it does make her the fervent lover of democratic rule the rest of the movies demand that she be.G1d3on wrote:I should have clarified; the "incompetent and weak" Valorum is the one that she perceives following his refusal to act immediately on her claims.Bakustra wrote:What makes you think he's weak? He sent a team of Jedi to stop the blockade, which would have succeeded if not for factors he didn't know about, tried to do an end-run around Senatorial procedures- there's not a lot to show that he's weak as opposed to the Republic being fucked up or even Amidala being dissatisfied with the Senate not believing her immediately (which damages her character as we are meant to interpret it) and refusing to comply with the law.
Why should we interpret that? The scene as written doesn't present Valorum as corrupt, nor does it do so as filmed, so there's no reason for us to conclude that is the case from what is presented, and thus it is a weakness.Yes, but you mentioned the scene in which Palpatine informs Amidala that she's going to have to accept the Federation's occupation of Naboo. Regardless of the delay, Amidala feels that she has removed a facilitator of political corruption from power and that the benefits will soon follow. This is tragic irony, of course, given that the one whom she replaces him with is an even greater source of corruption.Bakustra wrote:And then she is told she has to wait for Palpatine to get into power, at which point she decides to leave. This is the scene after Anakin gets tested in the Jedi Temple. Like I said, there's a delay either way, and it is, I think, reasonable to assume that a change of government would mean delays.
He is presented as a figure of menace in the OT even when he's walking with a cane and feigning physical weakness. The evil exudes from him, and I think you didn't parse my sentence correctly- I was referring to his bombastic portrayal by "scenery-chewing". Not to mention that Star Wars is a fantasy that is not especially "realistic" and shouldn't be made into such. And again, Hitler gained power despite being obviously crazier than the Emperor.Actually, I don't think he cackles once in The Empire Strikes Back; he seems pretty calm.Bakustra wrote:For fuck's sake. The man is a cackling incarnation of evil who chews through scenery like it's going out of style when we first get his hologram onscreen in TESB.
Palpatine, even in the classic trilogy, is a man who masks his true nature behind a facade. In the original films, it was a facade of weakness-- relying on his cane publicly, referring to Vader as "friend," and keeping the cackling to a minimum until he's alone with Vader and Luke.
A cackling psychopath isn't likely to gain support in a political setting and I think even the most ardent apologist would have a hard time suspending their disbelief at the idea of a hooded, wrinkled Sith Lord maniacally carving his way through the Senate and achieving utter power.
What are you talking about? You're not really contradicting me, so why is it necessary that he be a master manipulator and incredible liar or whatever, which distances him from his roots as a character (Hitler, Julius Caesar, Nixon) in important ways?I completely and utterly disagree. It's more powerful that the Senate and characters relinquish power to him voluntarily and as they realize their mistake, try to stop him. I don't see how blatant terrorism and unfettered maniacal psychopathy breeds subtlety.Bakustra wrote:Palpatine as Julius Hitler-Caesar works better than as a master of disguise, and it can easily explain why he's able to hide from the Jedi without any "shroud of the darkside" stuff- the dark side would be strong with him regardless of whether he were a trained Sith or not. And the story of how someone duped a bunch of people to become king and then turned out to be evil is a lot less powerful and a lot less compelling than the story of how someone obviously evil and crazy became ruler- and nobody stopped him. And the movies can do that, and it's something much subtler than what we get on screen.