eMeM wrote: ↑2018-02-13 06:14pm
Yes, I want Rian Johnson fired, not because of financials, not because the reception of the movie, but because for me personally he proved to be a complete hack and I wish someone more talented took over instead. Is it a reasonable position? Obviously not. Is it a natural reaction? I believe so.
In my opinion, wanting a man's career to be damaged because you personally didn't like his work seems rather petty, but you are entitled to your opinion. Just so long as we're clear that it has no objective basis.
I'm not going to agitate in front of LFL headquaters or argue on the internet if it is or is not a good bussiness decision. I simply believe that Star Wars would be better off without him.
And I think that Star Wars would be better off if it didn't switch between directors with wildly different styles after every film. Different directors for different series and stand-alones, but one director and writer/writing team per series would probably give the franchise more stability and consistency in style, themes, and plot, I think.
I can play this game too.
I said "some rabid defenders", I didn't point any fingers. Maybe even there aren't any on this board, who knows, I'm just sharing my observation that many of those people considers the ratings of the movie to be some form of nazi conspiracy, while finances and discussion boards suggest that the movie indeed was very divisive for multitude of reasons.
I'd say that in your case, it was very obvious that it was directed at me, and the blatant sarcasm of this "denial" confirms it.
The only point at which I accused you directly was this:
"I love how someone who gives TLJ a bad review is surely "an angry OT fan" (or a fascist, or more likely a facist pretending to be an angry OT fan, as you suggested in the other thread). "
I'm refering to this:
The Romulan Republic wrote: ↑2018-02-10 08:39pm
fractalsponge1 wrote: ↑2018-02-10 05:13pm
"fan whiner bullshit"
There's several types of whining about the sequels
1) from some fringe element that thinks having non-white people in SW is anathema - they can go fuck themselves
2) uberfanboys that don't like their sacred cows getting slaughtered
3) people that don't like the movies because they think they are bad movies
Don't lump them all together, because that's a fucking stupid thing to do if you actually care about the franchise.
No, they're not all the same, but they sometimes overlap, and 1) may sometimes masquerade as 2) and 3) (Alt. Reich types don't debate honestly- who knew?).
But of course you used "may sometimes" so you are not accusing anyone!
Yet the implication is there.
Only if you choose to read that implication into it.
I acknowledged that there were multiple reasons why people criticized the film, but added a reminder that it can sometimes be difficult to distinguish between them. In what way, other than paranoid delusions or deliberate libel, does that amount to an "implication" that anyone who criticizes the film is a fascist (or an "angry OT fan", for that matter)?
Yes, of course political extremists and bigots sometimes pretend to be something other than what they are. If you've ever read the phrase "I'm not racist, but (followed by something racist).", you've likely seen this phenomenon in action. That does not mean that everyone is actually a fascist, obviously.
Honesty time.
If you feel I'm being dishonest, report me. Don't just passive-aggressively imply it.
What's the point of this:
"and 1) may sometimes masquerade as 2) and 3) (Alt. Reich types don't debate honestly- who knew?)"
I find it ironic that you write about debating honestly in the same line you pull this shit. Why would you write that if not to undermine legitimate critique of the movie?
Because... Alt. Reich types don't debate honestly. That it can be hard to tell when someone is debating in bad faith. The statement meant exactly what it said. Going from that to "TRR thinks everyone who criticizes TLJ is secretly a Nazi" is a leap
you made, not me.
You are engaging in a circular argument here:
"You must have been referring to every single person who criticizes the film! How do I know? Because there's no reason that you'd say it other than to attack every single person who criticized the film!"
Maybe that's my poor English but what I see here is you saying that everyone who disliked the movie, even if he presents good arguments, might be (but you're not saying he is) a nazi who just shields his bigotry with those good arguments, but in fact he hates the movie because of nazi reasons.
How can you write something like this and act suprised when people feel insulted?
You are reading into my posts a meaning that is not there, and certainly was not stated, because (by your own admission), you
assume that this is what I will do- which creates a rather circular situation. You assume I'm accusing everyone who disagrees with me of being a Nazi. You accuse me in turn. Which further contributes to me having a reputation as someone who accuses anyone who disagrees with him of being a Nazi.
See the problem? At this point, I have a negative reputation which appears to be entirely self-sustaining, regardless of what I actually say.
I won't dig up ancient threads because I can't be bothered, feel free to dismiss me due to lack of evidence, but I as long as I'm on this board I associate you with this style of argumentation by smuggling non-direct, yet thinly veiled nazi accusations into your posts, especially whenever our Lady And Saviour Rey comes up, but in many other situations too.
In other words: "I can't be bothered to back up the accusations I made against you, but will refuse to retract them, while continuing to imply that they are valid, and hypocritically accuse you of making false insinuations against others."
Or, to put it another way: Concession accepted.
Oh, and you have mistaken "I don't hate Rey" for "I worship Rey". Sorry, I'm not an adherent to the Jedi religion.
Sorry for off topic.
If you're sorry, then maybe next time stay on the actual topic, rather jumping to questionable assumptions about my intent and then doubling down when I refute them. I know
I'd be much happier to discuss the films, if I didn't feel obligated to defend myself against what I feel are misrepresentations of my positions.