StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Admitbly it was an island fort in modern day Finland but when I was stationed at the Isosaari fort we had a gym (a small one but still), a break room of sorts (with a TV and a Playstation) and 2 cantinas of sorts, Sotilas Koti, sort of mix between a cantina and small shop (the name literally means Soldier's home) and the officer's club (never visited that one just knew it existed) and our base wasn't that big with maybe little over a company's worth of service men and officers in total.

so I'd suspect that a Stardestroyer would have at least an equilevant to that (obviously any entertainment media would be censored or be propaganda in the empire but still). Watch-man if definetly correct that having shore leave be the only source of entertainment for the crew just isn't plaucible even the Galactic Empire isn't openly hostile to it's on servicemen like that (it wouldn't have survived if it was)

I'd assume they'd have some drinks, hit the gym and watch Imperial Propaganda media.

Zor

well that's possible but at least in the Finnish Defense Force (aka the military I served in) enlisted men like myself were not and probably still aren't allowed to drink alcoholic drinks while on base, officers seem to be exception though since at least one looked like he was an alcoholic, granted even he wasn't drunk on-duty though. Granted that's a real life military but I'd suspect that the Imperial Navy would be even more strict about these things.

Stormtroopers aren't even allowed to "waste" power to keep themselves cool in their armor so I doubt comfort and recreational activities are a high priority for the Empire's rank and file. That said, it wouldn't surprise me if senior officers are tacitly allowed to indulge in their own decadent vices without anyone saying boo.

Galvatron wrote:Stormtroopers aren't even allowed to "waste" power to keep themselves cool in their armor so I doubt comfort and recreational activities are a high priority for the Empire's rank and file. That said, it wouldn't surprise me if senior officers are tacitly allowed to indulge in their own decadent vices without anyone saying boo.

Context is everything, I highly dout there's no form of entertainment for the rank and file in fact the very thing Stormtroopers were clearly bored and talking things not related to their duties suggests that rank and file isn't treated like droids made of flesh that are to be ignored when not needed, since if Stormtroopers are capable of getting bored they're capable of going insane due to boredom and I dout the imperial military would consider loosing service men because one them went mad and started shooting random things or doing something equally stupid as acceptble losses.

Now that entertainment that rank and file gets is probably fairly basic and more in the lines of propaganda reels or card games then something that would need too much preplanning but it would be there to prevent losses of mental breakdowns due to no real downtime. Besides it would be easy for COMPNOR or who ever handles propaganda in the empire to make sure the troops get only their side of the story if main form of entertainment of watching propaganda reels (or the imperial equilevant).

We know folks like being posted in places like Scariff because surf's up cowabunga dudes!

Galvatron wrote:Stormtroopers aren't even allowed to "waste" power to keep themselves cool in their armor so I doubt comfort and recreational activities are a high priority for the Empire's rank and file. That said, it wouldn't surprise me if senior officers are tacitly allowed to indulge in their own decadent vices without anyone saying boo.

I remember one of the Wraith Squadron books mentioning that Imperial pilots and (stated or implied) stormtroopers were kept on a barely restrained edge of pissed off ferocity that sometimes came boiling out at inappropriate times like "When on leave" or "When with one's spouse and kids."

I'm sure they have some kind of recreational facilities and stuff to do when off-duty (the rank and file would create them informally if nothing else), but I suspect morale wasn't a big concern for the Imperial military beyond a fairly basic "Conscripts don't regularly try to mutiny or suicide" level. The Empire would have wanted their troops constantly pissed off and ready to commit atrocities at the drop of a hat. Because they're evil.

The stupidity hurts... I swear the more time goes on and the more EU I hear about, the more appealing a movies only purist approach seems appealing.

Personally I prefer the depictions where the imperials are less intentionally (cartoonishly) evil and more that imperial elite is so removed from the common imperial citizen that they cannot see the harm and evil they causing with their actions, the victims being seen as mere numbers on a spreadsheet rather then sentient beings with their own lives, dreams and hopes(that dispite what some here imply do exist in legendaries at very least I dunno enough about the new EU to comment on that). In a way that makes the Empire and high ranking imperials more evil then being evil because of "reasons".

I'm not sure it's canon status anymore, but didn't the Death Star novel mention dozens of bars/cantinas and other entertainment services the battlestatin housed? One of the pov characters was even paid outrageous sums to move her establishment there I think.

NeoGoomba wrote:I'm not sure it's canon status anymore, but didn't the Death Star novel mention dozens of bars/cantinas and other entertainment services the battlestatin housed? One of the pov characters was even paid outrageous sums to move her establishment there I think.

she was but sadly that novel isn't canon anymore as far as I know, there was even something akin to a mall there, that sold items not meant for on duty use, there's a mention of an outfit that left pretty nothing to the imagination (not worn by anyone but it was described as such), but then even DS1 is huge compared to your average imperial ship so there's more then enough room for such things.

That novel also is great as using the "out of touch with the people" way of describing imperial as evil none of the imperial characters are intentionally doing evil things for shits and giggles (dispite Tarkin and Vader both being major characters) but rather each have their own justifications as why their acts are either not evil or a necessery evil, granted those justifications aren't always good ones but they exist.

Lord Revan wrote:Personally I prefer the depictions where the imperials are less intentionally (cartoonishly) evil and more that imperial elite is so removed from the common imperial citizen that they cannot see the harm and evil they causing with their actions, the victims being seen as mere numbers on a spreadsheet rather then sentient beings with their own lives, dreams and hopes(that dispite what some here imply do exist in legendaries at very least I dunno enough about the new EU to comment on that). In a way that makes the Empire and high ranking imperials more evil then being evil because of "reasons".

That's fine in some settings, but this is a galactic Empire created by an evil wizard who is also the leader of what was essentially an evil cult devoted to the Dark Side. He might put up a facade of doing these things for the right reasons, but I always liked Luke's analysis (delivered by Wedge) in Starfighters of Adumar: that the Emperor wanted his people to know on some level that they were wrong and that the things they were doing were horrible. That he wanted to corrupt people and for them to realize that and go along anyway. That's why it was the evil Empire, not just an empire that did terrible things.

Ralin wrote:

Lord Revan wrote:Personally I prefer the depictions where the imperials are less intentionally (cartoonishly) evil and more that imperial elite is so removed from the common imperial citizen that they cannot see the harm and evil they causing with their actions, the victims being seen as mere numbers on a spreadsheet rather then sentient beings with their own lives, dreams and hopes(that dispite what some here imply do exist in legendaries at very least I dunno enough about the new EU to comment on that). In a way that makes the Empire and high ranking imperials more evil then being evil because of "reasons".

That's fine in some settings, but this is a galactic Empire created by an evil wizard who is also the leader of what was essentially an evil cult devoted to the Dark Side. He might put up a facade of doing these things for the right reasons, but I always liked Luke's analysis (delivered by Wedge) in Starfighters of Adumar: that the Emperor wanted his people to know on some level that they were wrong and that the things they were doing were horrible. That he wanted to corrupt people and for them to realize that and go along anyway. That's why it was the evil Empire, not just an empire that did terrible things.

you do realize that those 2 depictions aren't mutually exclusive "ends justify the means" and "I was just following orders" are pretty common justifications, also in these depictions Palatine isn't doing random acts of evil for shits and giggles either (or any Sith who is semi compotent) but his actions serve the purpose of more power to himself, I could see Palpatine corrupting people into thinking "sure this is bad but it's what needs to be done and ends justify the means" as it boost his personal power as he make people do what he wants them to do. Closest thing of Palpatine being that petty cartoonish evil is the legendaries depiction of what happend to the DS1 main designer but what's about the only time Palpatine did random acts of evil just because he could.

Like I said before those justification don't have to be good or even convincing to the audience but if they exist they make characters much more deep then "does random acts because of, err I dunno, reasons"

Lord Revan wrote: you do realize that those 2 depictions aren't mutually exclusive "ends justify the means" and "I was just following orders" are pretty common justifications, also in these depictions Palatine isn't doing random acts of evil for shits and giggles either (or any Sith who is semi compotent) but his actions serve the purpose of more power to himself, I could see Palpatine corrupting people into thinking "sure this is bad but it's what needs to be done and ends justify the means" as it boost his personal power as he make people do what he wants them to do. Closest thing of Palpatine being that petty cartoonish evil is the legendaries depiction of what happend to the DS1 main designer but what's about the only time Palpatine did random acts of evil just because he could.

Like I said before those justification don't have to be good or even convincing to the audience but if they exist they make characters much more deep then "does random acts because of, err I dunno, reasons"

Sure, that works for individual Imperials. I mean the Empire as a whole. Palpatine's not just a ruthless and immoral politician or even a ruthless and immoral politician with magic powers. He's someone who more or less literally views mastering the Dark Side as his religion and set the Empire up to reflect that as well as keep him in power.

That's my take anyway. Obviously it's a big setting and open to different interpretations.

Oh, I think we know (Star Wars Kinect footage)

Elheru Aran wrote: The principal question there is how long of a mission the average Star Destroyer is expected to conduct on a regular basis. If it's something like a maximum of one week-- not inconceivable considering how fast hyperspace is-- then perhaps they only have the bare minimum of recreational facilities, possibly combining them in some kind of multipurpose room, say the canteen.

On the other hand, if they're expected to be away from base for months at a time... then you do have to pay more consideration to keeping the crew happy.

I would expect there to be morale officers on board, assigned the duty of having activities available for off-duty crew. Shockball at 3 PM, Krikkit match at 6, sabacc at 8, every other Friday a simulator-pod-race... etc.

Even if you're only expecting one week missions, having rec centers on board saves you the effort of shipping people down and back as much.

That, and I can imagine situations where an ISD would be away from recreational facilities for considerably longer. The obvious one being a blockade/siege of an enemy planet, which might last weeks or months (like the Outer Rim Sieges in the Clone Wars, perhaps). Sure, they could rotate ships out, but I'd guess that they probably wouldn't want to do that every few days, to save on fuel costs if nothing else.

Ralin wrote:

Lord Revan wrote: you do realize that those 2 depictions aren't mutually exclusive "ends justify the means" and "I was just following orders" are pretty common justifications, also in these depictions Palatine isn't doing random acts of evil for shits and giggles either (or any Sith who is semi compotent) but his actions serve the purpose of more power to himself, I could see Palpatine corrupting people into thinking "sure this is bad but it's what needs to be done and ends justify the means" as it boost his personal power as he make people do what he wants them to do. Closest thing of Palpatine being that petty cartoonish evil is the legendaries depiction of what happend to the DS1 main designer but what's about the only time Palpatine did random acts of evil just because he could.

Like I said before those justification don't have to be good or even convincing to the audience but if they exist they make characters much more deep then "does random acts because of, err I dunno, reasons"

Sure, that works for individual Imperials. I mean the Empire as a whole. Palpatine's not just a ruthless and immoral politician or even a ruthless and immoral politician with magic powers. He's someone who more or less literally views mastering the Dark Side as his religion and set the Empire up to reflect that as well as keep him in power.

That's my take anyway. Obviously it's a big setting and open to different interpretations.

The thing to remember is that Dark Side isn't about commiting random acts of evil (especially the Sith version) those acts aren't random but means to achivive the true goal of personal power. The Sith code is after all

• Peace is a lie, there is only passion
• Thru passion, I gain strength
• Thru strength, I gain power
• Thru power, I gain victory
• Thru victory, my chains are broken
• The Force shall set me free

nothing there about having to perform only evil acts, however since the Sith philosophy is inherently selfish so a lot of the acts performed by the Sith are what we would see as evil, but it's not because of a desire to commit evil but rather those evil acts are seen as the "best" way for the Sith to satisfy their own self-intrest.

I see Galactic Empire as a whole the same way, there's no explicit desire to commit evil for its own sake but rather commiting acts that are generally seen as evil are seen as the best means to achivive the goal of more personal power (either for Palpatine or a random imperial official since obviously this philosophy of self-intrest would filter to the lower ranks as well).

That Sith Code is entirely non-canon though and was invented for KotoR; it can't be used to describe Palpatine's or the Empire's action.

eta: Hang on, wookiepdia as it as Legends but also says it was in Clone Wars? The canon one. Weird.

The Sith Code (which I gather from the preceding post has not been reintroduce to canon yet) may not instruct one to commit evil per say, or even to embrace the Dark Side (I've never bought the Old Republic Jedi belief that emotional attachment inevitably leads to the Dark Side).

However, if one starts dabbling with the Dark Side, as Sith generally do, it has a corrupting influence on the psyche. So they're likely to end up evil in short order regardless.

Though this raises the interesting notion of a "reform Sith" movement, attempting to follow the code without being evil.

Crazedwraith wrote:That Sith Code is entirely non-canon though and was invented for KotoR; it can't be used to describe Palpatine's or the Empire's action.

eta: Hang on, wookiepdia as it as Legends but also says it was in Clone Wars? The canon one. Weird.

Maul said the code in the Nightsisters arc (or at least parts of it) during his crazed rants.

The Clone Wars and Rebels showrunners love the KOTOR stuff and try to sneak it in as much as possible.

The Empire does have some explicitly evil objectives built into it, at least in Legends canon. The human-supremacism comes to mind, as does the inherently authoritarian ideology of never questioning the state and the way it treats concentration of power.

I mean, they're not quite down to Saturday morning cartoon villain levels of evil where they just do terrible things to people for no reason at all, but it's not really possible to separate out the Empire from its own evil side. This is probably why we have so many characters who wind up defecting from it, or trying to reinvent it- because as it actually existed under Palpatine, you can't really look at what it is squarely and accept that without giving up on your conscience.

The way I see it Nazi Germany is a good real life counterpart for the Galactic Empire (at least for the legendaries side). I dout there's anyone here that would argue that calling the Nazis evil isn't correct, seeing as they did things that are simply so horrible that describing them doesn't really convey the sheer vileness of those actions like killing millions for simply being different (not just jews though they were the largest group, but also Slavs, roma and homosexuals of any race). That said the nazis didn't do this randomly to score "evil points" but rather they were following a vile and evil ideology, so there was a reason for their actions, a really bad reason but still it existed.

Same deal with the empire sure, you can't really ignore or remove the evil side from the Empire without being a hypocrite but at same time it doesn't make them any less evil to admit that there might be a cause the imperials are following and they're not doing random acts of evil to "score evil points". Sure that cause is evil but hey it's not like that hasn't happend in real life too. I said before I actually find this type of bad guys to be more evil because of the idea that they're essentially "anyone", rather then the bad guys having "born evil" so to speak, in a sense it also makes the dark side stronger as anyone is at risk rather then only those who were bad guys to begin with falling.

That said were going off topic here.

You people should read Lost Stars, if you haven't already. It touches upon a lot of what's been discussed in this thread so far (and it's canon).

I bet they haze new recruits/rookies by chucking them out the airlock or the hangar bay and then tractor-beaming them back on board gasping for breath and asphyxiating, maybe a quick bacta dump to restore their lungs. Like keel-hauling.

...omg they keep the dianogas in the shit-tanks for hazing purposes.