Q99 wrote: ↑2018-01-26 05:00pm
Look, if a criticism of something is largely based on their abilities, if you
get them factually wrong, then it says a lot more on you than it does them,
Sure, but I didn't get anything wrong.
You inflate the perceived flaws of the character in order to fit your narrative.
You say this and then you proceed to cut my quotes up and pretend bits aren't there? Unlike you, I will not leave out a word of your arguments.
Which still makes her, dun dun dun, the worst of the cast at it as Finn and Han both do better (more kills, more accuracy), and the Kylo scene is 2/3rds of her shots.
Does Finn actually get more blaster kills? Does he? I think you need to go count that sunshine. And I don't give a shit if she's 'worse' than the legendary Han Solo. The POINT you're dodging is that it was claimed she wasn't good at things-
not that there was someone better.
Also? Her being terrified and missing Kylo repeatedly is not exactly selling the 'she's great at everything' point. Piss-poor excuse on your part here and one that plays into the dismissing of her flaws to fit the half-assed mary sue narrative.
Oh fuck off. The context the skill is used in absolutely matters. I'll bet you were all about the context when she beat Ren because of his wound and being torn right? I'm not the one dismissing the actual narrative and context of the movie here- that's you. Fact is blaster on blaster she performs extremely well.
OH LOOK. HERE'S WHERE YOU JUST SKIP FOUR WHOLE ARGUMENTS. Oh but it's *me* that's trying to fit the narrative. Almost like you had no argument because the list you're trying to support was bullshit.
Her conflict leads her to being tied to chair and interrogated in the first movie. And her being too eager to embrace her powers in the second is a large part of why Luke doesn't want to teach her. Piss-poor excuse 2 and 3!
You went to town with the editing here. Now you're trying to conflate the 'tempted with the Darkside' bit with her getting captured. I especially love the way you cut out one of the larger paragraphs to do this. She runs off because she's
freaked out by a vision, not because she's conflicted. The moment she sees the FO ships arriving she's heading back into the fight. Now I wrote that before, but you snipped it, so I have to say it again. As for Luke's reticence to teach, that's bullshit too. He doesn't want to teach because a) he thinks the Jedi should end, but he teaches her anyway and b) when he does, i
t's her raw power that scares him more than anything. Do I have to play you a clip? And fuck off with the 'being captured and interrogated rubbish. She does not give up the map, she overpowers Kylo and she literally walks out unharmed.
Nice failure to address everything after the snip too.
Ok, so you're.... admitting she didn't do well here, just for good reason. Which is admitting that hey, it's right. So much for the list being piss-poor. Piss-poor excuse 4.
No you illiterate, I'm saying the task was fucking monumentally hard. You can't just someone's abilities based on their failure to achieve a singular, incredibly difficult task.
Kylo being in charge isn't exactly a win for her either. Really that was her getting dragged into darksider politics.
Again, I love the way you just fail to respond to everything and go for this. Kylo being in change isn't a win? Over the much more dangerous (in every way) Snoke? Is that seriously your argument? That it'd be better for her if Snoke was alive?
She totally did try to redeem him- she tried convincing him to turn, she developed a personal connection during their conversations, she kept calling him Ben, wanted him to step away from where he was.... which he *kinda* did but only in a still-darkside way. And yea, this pretty much did put a nail in the coffin of him turning and "it's not over yet," still also means so far... she's failed in existing material.
Another piss-poor excuse!
Yes, it is. She also called him a monster, a title he accepted readily. And shot at him, which given the way the rain water transferred may have been dangerous has the connection not been severed. Then she has an (unseen) force vision and off she goes. She doesn't try to convert him because she's seen him join her- probably against the guards with Snoke dead in the background- classically misinterpreting her vision. But we didn't see it (or his) so who the fuck knows?
And there's still my 'she's not as good at social skills or coming up with plans as the other leads like Finn, Poe, etc.," who are good at bluffing and improvising.
What social faux pas did she commit that makes you think she's not good at socialising? And by my count Finn has one plan and she has one plan. After that she's in different situations to them. So come on, where's your examples?
The list is way better than the half-assed rejection of the list.
He says, cutting out swathes of text and failing to address several points in any way.
The Romulan Republic wrote: ↑2018-01-26 08:40pm
And it increasingly seems that there's little point arguing with these people. To them, it is self-evident that Rey is a "Mary Sue" and overly-perfect in every way, because she is a woman, or because she is a character in a movie they don't like because it didn't perfectly fit their vision of what Star Wars "should" be.
Or maybe, just maybe, because she's an overpowered character the narrative is bent around? Wow, if only there was some way we could make claims, counter claims, discuss and critique each other to attempt to discover the truth! Nah, better to just make passive aggressive attacks at people than confront contrary ideas right?
The Romulan Republic wrote: ↑2018-01-26 08:40pmAny contrary evidence may be ignored to fit with the movie that they watched in their heads, and any attempt to call out their double-standards and biases may be met with faux-victim indignation and/or an attempt to reflect the accusation back onto the accuser.
Give me one example of ignoring evidence or a double standard by me. And I'm not playing any victim- bring it on. When I got called out, I put in the effort to substantiate my points. I mean shit, I could literally quote your own post back at you with some changes:
The Romulan Republic wrote: ↑2018-01-26 08:40pm
And it increasingly seems that there's little point arguing with these people. To them, it is self-evident that Rey is a balanced character and perfect in every way, because she is a woman, or because she is a character in a movie they like because it perfectly fit their vision of what Star Wars "should" be. Any contrary evidence may be ignored to fit with the movie that they watched in their heads, and any attempt to call out their double-standards and biases may be met with faux-victim indignation and/or an attempt to reflect the accusation back onto the accuser.
See how utterly vacuous that is? How pathetic it is?
The Romulan Republic wrote: ↑2018-01-26 08:40pm
They may not all be Alt. Reichists, but their rhetorical tactics of double-standards, ignoring evidence, and then playing the victim when called on it are regrettably similar.
Aww, finally we come to the guilt by association plea. Come back when you have actual argument, we can debate, and we'll see who has the integrity to concede if they're wrong.