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Vympel wrote: ↑2019-12-02 05:26am

Galvatron wrote: ↑2019-12-01 11:03pm The MCU-style dialogue doesn't annoy me nearly as much as the pretense that flying troopers are something new.

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Clone_jetpack_trooper
https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Jumptrooper

I miss the days when Star Wars characters regarded their amazing technology with the same nonchalance that we'd have for an everyday toaster. Unless that technology happened to be a moon-sized superweapon, that is.

Yeah - on the other hand no one in the general audience is going to give a shit about some troopers in TCW or Rebels or whatever.

I mean, c'mon. Jetpacks have been a part of Star Wars forever. Everyone knows people can fly in Star Wars.

Jetpacks were in AotC, and Spoiler and really there's no reason to have them do anything but say, "Look out, rocket-troopers!"

We got Jet packs back in Return of the Jedi (used by Boba Fett), granted it was just 1 person not troops but still.

I could understand Threepio reacting that way, but Poe and Finn?

Galvatron wrote: ↑2019-12-02 02:25pm I could understand Threepio reacting that way, but Poe and Finn?

Finn's got an excuse. He was a duct-cleaner, not a front line Trooper. There's probably a lot of things about the First Order he didn't know. Poe, on the other hand, sounds like "Yeah, yeah, they fly (didn't you know that?)"

Finn knew about the Starkiller's weakness and the hyperspace tracker on the Supremacy though. It seems to me that the main value he brings to this trilogy is his strangely comprehensive knowledge of the First Order.

Sounded more like a defeated acceptance ' Yeah, they fly now' to me.
And frankly with Han thinking the Jedi were a myth a mere 20 years after the fall of the Old Republic I don't find people not knowing about jump/rocket/air/whateveryouwanttocallthemtroopers 30 years after the fall of the Empire all that hard to swallow.

But he didn't say the Jedi were a myth, just that the Force was "all a lot of simple tricks and nonsense."

I also doubt that the New Republic suppressed or revised galactic history like the Empire supposedly did.

LadyTevar wrote: ↑2019-12-02 09:10pm

Galvatron wrote: ↑2019-12-02 02:25pm I could understand Threepio reacting that way, but Poe and Finn?

Finn's got an excuse. He was a duct-cleaner, not a front line Trooper. There's probably a lot of things about the First Order he didn't know. Poe, on the other hand, sounds like "Yeah, yeah, they fly (didn't you know that?)"

That’s how Finn was obviously imagined, but not what he was utilized as on screen. After demonstrating oddly specific and detailed technical knowledge of both Starkiller Base and the FO flagship its not really possible to cast him as SN Timmy any more. And the new EU origin material shat all over the janitor idea anyway

Considering the Jedi Order itself tried to keep the abilities of the jedi as at very least semi-mythical to most likely increase the intimidation factor the jedi, it's not such a big leap to assume that Imperial authorities were able to convince people that all jedi abilities were just tricks enhanced with myths.

That said Han is probably someone who would be more likely belive imperial statements in that direction then your average imperial citizen. Seeing as he was more or less raised on the street by criminals and even after he escaped that his life before ANH wasn't exactly the way that would make you belive that super virteous protectors who could wield essentially magic were a real thing.

Lord Revan wrote: ↑2019-12-02 11:34pm Considering the Jedi Order itself tried to keep the abilities of the jedi as at very least semi-mythical to most likely increase the intimidation factor the jedi, it's not such a big leap to assume that Imperial authorities were able to convince people that all jedi abilities were just tricks enhanced with myths.

And probably convincing themselves as well. Remember way back in the first film, we saw presumably well-educated Imperial officers with exactly the same it's-all-ancient-mumbo-jumbo opinion of the Force and the people who can work with it, whether Jedi or Sith. I suppose only the Imperials who worked directly for Vader were any different.

Well, Motti did have a point. The Force didn't grant Vader the ability to conjure up the stolen data tapes or find the hidden rebel base.

Of course, that didn't stop Vader from tele-choking him, but Motti still had a point.

KraytKing wrote: ↑2019-12-02 08:53am I mean, c'mon. Jetpacks have been a part of Star Wars forever. Everyone knows people can fly in Star Wars.

It's not about whether 'people can fly', they're talking specifically about First Order troops. It's nothing more than a tongue-in-cheek nod and wink to the audience, it's not some sort of commentary about whether jetpacks exist in Star Wars meant to stand up to any sort of scrutiny / canon pedantry.

SpottedKitty wrote: ↑2019-12-03 02:41pm

Lord Revan wrote: ↑2019-12-02 11:34pm Considering the Jedi Order itself tried to keep the abilities of the jedi as at very least semi-mythical to most likely increase the intimidation factor the jedi, it's not such a big leap to assume that Imperial authorities were able to convince people that all jedi abilities were just tricks enhanced with myths.

And probably convincing themselves as well. Remember way back in the first film, we saw presumably well-educated Imperial officers with exactly the same it's-all-ancient-mumbo-jumbo opinion of the Force and the people who can work with it, whether Jedi or Sith. I suppose only the Imperials who worked directly for Vader were any different.

I think there is a bit of self-serving technocratic dick-measuring going on. I always took the nonforce Imperials to be equivalents to MacNamara's "wiz kids" who felt there was a technical solution to every problem. That's essentially the whole point of the back and forth between Motti and Vader regarding the DS. I doubt they don't know Vader's force powers are real, but rather it serves a certain faction within the Imperial power structure to belittle such in service to their own ambitions. After a while, they start believing their own bullshit and forget just how real Vader's powers are.

Yep.

In fact, I'd say that Motti actually won the argument by goading Vader into a petulant display of power that, while impressive, still paled in comparison to what the Death Star could do.

Vympel wrote: ↑2019-12-03 08:17pm

KraytKing wrote: ↑2019-12-02 08:53am I mean, c'mon. Jetpacks have been a part of Star Wars forever. Everyone knows people can fly in Star Wars.

It's not about whether 'people can fly', they're talking specifically about First Order troops. It's nothing more than a tongue-in-cheek nod and wink to the audience, it's not some sort of commentary about whether jetpacks exist in Star Wars meant to stand up to any sort of scrutiny / canon pedantry.

Well, it's true... we had not see First Order Troops fly.

LadyTevar wrote: ↑2019-12-02 09:10pm

Galvatron wrote: ↑2019-12-02 02:25pm I could understand Threepio reacting that way, but Poe and Finn?

Finn's got an excuse. He was a duct-cleaner, not a front line Trooper. There's probably a lot of things about the First Order he didn't know. Poe, on the other hand, sounds like "Yeah, yeah, they fly (didn't you know that?)"

Sigh... one line about him working in sanitation, and people still assume that that's all he ever did.

His very first scene shows him as part of Kylo Ren's personal escort on a high-priority intelligence raid. That's not a post you give a "duct cleaner". No, he probably wasn't an experienced, battle-hardened soldier, given his reactions in the fight, but he clearly had been moved to more prestigious postings over his career, and done well enough in training to be held in fairly high regard by the top brass (for that matter, having any assignment on Starkiller Base, even sanitation, might imply a fairly high security clearance).

Vympel wrote: ↑2019-12-03 08:17pm

KraytKing wrote: ↑2019-12-02 08:53am I mean, c'mon. Jetpacks have been a part of Star Wars forever. Everyone knows people can fly in Star Wars.

It's not about whether 'people can fly', they're talking specifically about First Order troops. It's nothing more than a tongue-in-cheek nod and wink to the audience, it's not some sort of commentary about whether jetpacks exist in Star Wars meant to stand up to any sort of scrutiny / canon pedantry.

And I'd expect jetpacks to be something they give special forces/troopers on specific missions that require it, not something the rank and file has as standard equipment that they can bust out when chasing fugitives after whatever had just happened in that clip.

Ralin wrote: ↑2019-12-03 11:51pm And I'd expect jetpacks to be something they give special forces/troopers on specific missions that require it, not something the rank and file has as standard equipment that they can bust out when chasing fugitives after whatever had just happened in that clip.

That makes sense.

I mean, that's just begging for someone to do dumb shit that ends with dead soldiers and broken equipment.

Ralin wrote: ↑2019-12-05 01:12am I mean, that's just begging for someone to do dumb shit that ends with dead soldiers and broken equipment.

The Imperial equivalent of "hold my beer and watch this"...?

SpottedKitty wrote: ↑2019-12-05 05:14pm

Ralin wrote: ↑2019-12-05 01:12am I mean, that's just begging for someone to do dumb shit that ends with dead soldiers and broken equipment.

The Imperial equivalent of "hold my beer and watch this"...?

It happens in every military.

Ralin wrote: ↑2019-12-03 11:51pmAnd I'd expect jetpacks to be something they give special forces/troopers on specific missions that require it, not something the rank and file has as standard equipment that they can bust out when chasing fugitives after whatever had just happened in that clip.

Maybe someone in the FO military wanted to give a sweet equipment contract to a friend in the relevant business?

With the news about the writers essentially admitting there was no cohesive plan for the sequel movies, I hope those that defended LFL since TFA for everything is well thought out can admit they've aided LFL and Disney in making a mess of the sequel trilogy.

ray245 wrote: ↑2019-12-15 01:22pm With the news about the writers essentially admitting there was no cohesive plan for the sequel movies, I hope those that defended LFL since TFA for everything is well thought out can admit they've aided LFL and Disney in making a mess of the sequel trilogy.

It's a mess? When did that happen?