StarDestroyer.Net BBS

ray245 wrote: ↑2017-12-17 08:19pm

NecronLord wrote: ↑2017-12-17 08:13pm

Nephtys wrote: ↑2017-12-17 08:07pm If we're still on the subject of mysterious black space orb bombs, this is a universe with repulsor technology. It's entirely possible those bombs were self-propelled by reactionless means. You can literally come up with any answer. They don't seem any less self-propelled than 90 degree turning photon torpedos are.

This is of course, correct.

The aesthetic choices made by the content-creators however, are deliberately evocative of free-fall bombs.

This is why it has come up in the conversations about the film that I have seen on this board, on other boards, on chat channels, and in real-life even with nongeeks. Design matters to build suspension of disbelief, a storytelling tool; I find that making things look incongruous makes them look laughable.

I think it's important to strike some balance between harking back to WW2 films and actually taking some physics into account. I'm not sure if the new directors got the memo. I feel like the "rule of cool" has been taken to some extreme by the younger director.

Scottish Ninja wrote: ↑2017-12-17 08:41pm Can I just remind everyone that we first saw "freefall" space bombs back in Empire?

KraytKing wrote: ↑2017-12-17 08:15pm Too old? ICS gave the ARC-170 five days supplies for a maximum range of five thousand light years. At class 1.5 hyperdrive, mind you. For a space superiority fighter, that's a lot of wasted space if it could only be in hyperspace for an hour or two.

Civil War Man wrote: ↑2017-12-16 06:58pm My personal opinion was that it was a good movie, but a poor sequel to TFA.

Also, I do notice a bit of conflict between two of the main themes of the movie. One is "Let go of the past," while another is "Failure is the best teacher."

NecronLord wrote: ↑2017-12-17 08:50pm

Scottish Ninja wrote: ↑2017-12-17 08:41pm Can I just remind everyone that we first saw "freefall" space bombs back in Empire?

This is not really what's being argued. We don't see the mechanism there and I for one have generally assumed there is some kind of launching device in the TIE Bomber's chute; as there presumably is on the rails in the B/SF-16; the anachronistic thing is the look of the bombing apparatus. Nobody is saying it is beyond the technology shown in previous films.

The point is that it is jarringly anachronistic, and has no real in-universe logic behind it. Making it just a strange inclusion.

It's similar to Canto Bight, which is jarringly modern:



This is weird because it's so culturally close to our current time and place. It looks lazy. All the males are wearing black suits and white underlayers because... Beau Brummell's ideas of men's fashion influenced the Star Wars Galaxy? Seriously, not one reveler deviates modern western european ideas of fashion.

Compare to the Opera in Episode III:



Notice the difference? Everyone's wearing formal-wear from their own culture, not ours. There is a sense that these people are from a Galaxy Far Far Away conveyed through their costuming.

Obviously I'm not saying that the GFFA cannot produce white silk shirts and black dinner jackets - their sartorial technology can do that easily - but that it's a sign of laziness in concepting to just take something from recent Earth history and space it up, rather than considering the influences that would have gone into it in its native environment. Costuming is less stereo-typically geeky, but the point is just the same.

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Incidentally should Terralthra want more evidence that the Resistance ships have D'qar behind them and therefore indicating they're accelerating in a steep climb:


There's an orbital ring behind the Dreadnought.

CetaMan wrote:Anyone else watch Rogue One to compare and notice that one of the projects Jyn finds while looking through Scarif's data hub is "Hyperspace Tracking, Navigation Systems"

NecronLord wrote: ↑2017-12-17 07:48pm

Terralthra wrote: ↑2017-12-17 01:13pmThat's if the bombers were in orbit, which they aren't. They're over a planet, but they aren't orbiting the planet. The physics of objects released from such a craft are essentially identical to those governing bombs falling out of a bomber at any altitude. All that is necessary is that some of the Resistance bombers' thrust be directed downward to counteract the gravity of the planet. On a B-52, that's the lift from the wing. On a Resistance bomber, it could just be some vectored thrust from the main engines.

Except the ships were boosting up from the planet with it behind them, so their momentum would at the very least keep the bombs traveling upward toward the apogee of their ballistic arc (assuming the ships hadn't achieved an orbital velocity) which would result in the bombs... continuing in roughly the same direction of travel as the ship.

The momentum they'd used to thrust away from D'qar doesn't go away. While yes, the bomber will continue to accelerate after the bombs leave it, they will both be traveling upward relative to D'qar still until the bombs hit the apogee of whatever ballistic arc they're on. They need to be spring-loaded, essentially.

D'qar is behind them, not below them.

Terralthra wrote: ↑2017-12-18 01:24am It's behind them in that shot, but they appear to have leveled out by the time they're making their run over the dreadnought. Worth noting that as the bombers get destroyed, each starts trailing debris and falling screen-down, confirming that they a) had not achieved orbital velocity and b) were being affected by a gravitational force roughly screen-down.

Guardsman Bass wrote: ↑2017-12-18 12:00am Maybe the Empire led to homogenization in elite fashion as part of the cultural transition, and that only sort of weakened after the New Republic was established. Or since Casino Planet is full of war profiteers, maybe they're all "new money" wearing whatever the most expensive fashion is right now rather than anything with culturally significant meaning.

KraytKing wrote: ↑2017-12-17 10:01pmAnyway, my point is that hyperspace travel has not always been so rapid, and I disapprove of this film saying otherwise.

KraytKing wrote: ↑2017-12-17 10:01pm Loiter around the system for five days? I agree, it should have range, but the range it is given is not concurrent with its supply given that it takes only hours for hyperspace travel. It made much more sense for it to take days in hyperspace, followed by a few hours of combat and recon, followed by days in hyperspace.

Anyway, my point is that hyperspace travel has not always been so rapid, and I disapprove of this film saying otherwise.

KraytKing wrote: ↑2017-12-18 08:11am My point is not wrong. For twenty some years, it was canon that ships took weeks in hyperspace. 1987 is a period caught in the time frame "always."


Also, if the Empire designed both ARC and TIE, then it would not follow for there to be any space or weight inefficiencies. The TIE was stripped of everything unimportant to make it light. The ARC should receive the same treatment.

KraytKing wrote: ↑2017-12-18 08:11am My point is not wrong. For twenty some years, it was canon that ships took weeks in hyperspace. 1987 is a period caught in the time frame "always."

Also, if the Empire designed both ARC and TIE, then it would not follow for there to be any space or weight inefficiencies. The TIE was stripped of everything unimportant to make it light. The ARC should receive the same treatment.

Darksider wrote: ↑2017-12-16 05:12pm
The character (and actual) assassination of Luke is something I can never forgive. Luke Skywalker was one of the first heroes I ever had growing up. When they described how he would be a "broken warrior" in this film, I was concerned, but I figured meeting Rey would snap him out of it and he'd go on to produce some sort of lasting legacy or have some lasting accomplishment.

Apparently the powers behind this film wanted otherwise. He barely trains Rey at all, which means if she does re-form the Jedi Order, it'll be with self-taught knowledge from the Jedi books she took with her. In addition to essentially erasing Luke as a lasting part of the story, this also cements Rey as a complete Mary Sue. She is exactly what Kylo said she was when he was trying to corrupt her: A junk rat whose parents sold her for drinking money. She's not important, so why is she the final savior figure of the entire fucking saga? She's bland and uninteresting, and the plot hands her whatever powers she needs to succeed. To erase all meaning from the stories of Luke and Anakin Skywalker and give it to her is an insult to everyone who grew up with those characters.

If you take the Sequel Trilogy as the be-all end-all of Star Wars, this movie works great, but as a part of the greater SW whole, it's absolutely atrocious.

Rogue 9 wrote: ↑2017-12-17 10:21am For instance: Apparently the heroes SOMEHOW know that the First Order's Star Destroyers can track ships through hyperspace - evidently not even needing to be present when they jump, since Snoke's ship wasn't - which had previously only been achieved through Vader following the Tantive IV using the Force after seeing it escape right in front of him. Yet somehow, they ALSO know that despite every ship in the pursuing armada having this ability, only one of them will be using it at a time. For some inscrutable reason.

Then there's the random criminal dude they broke out of prison at the casino (where apparently EVERYONE present was in the arms trade, because as we all know, there are no other ways to make money!). I was kind of on board with that right up until he cut a deal with the First Order. And not because he did that; he's a random criminal dude, who should be expected to do that kind of thing. No, because of Finn's exact question: "With what?" What did he give the First Order to get them to agree to pay him, give him a ship, and let him go? Was it an unexpected yet inevitable betrayal, telling them that the break-in was in progress? No, he turned after being caught. What then? He told them about the Resistance plan to escape their cruiser in cloaked transports ("No ship that small has a cloaking device!"). HOW DID HE KNOW THAT? Finn and Rose didn't know about it; how would he possibly have learned? (And then Hux lets him go before ascertaining the truth of his report. "Will wonders never cease," indeed.)

Then there's the general lack of military sense displayed by anyone in the movie except for the First Order admiral who dies on the Dreadnought in the beginning. The First Order had many ships. Those ships had hyperdrives, and apparently much larger fuel reserves than the Resistance cruisers. Why not jump out, jump back in ahead of them, and cut them off?

So, the Millennium Falcon can jump out of hyperspace right in front of a Star Destroyer, drop off an object, and jump out... and they just take it on board. If they're that stupid, send them a bomb.

A real head-banger: They made a big deal about getting to a base facility with enough power to broadcast a distress call, but they can apparently call Maz Kanata right up to quiz her about ways to disable tracking beacons, so apparently they could have just done that from the cruiser. They didn't.

Vympel wrote: ↑2017-12-18 09:01am The claim that Luke's character is 'assassinated' in this film is utter bullshit. The entire triumphant climax of the movie is built around Luke Skywalker using the greatest display of Force power ever to save the Resistance and start a new legend to ignite a rebellion. In what manner does ht not have a lasting legacy or accomplishment?

Terralthra wrote: ↑2017-12-16 11:16pmThe dice were hanging in the Falcon's cockpit since ANH. They were never pointed out as super important, but they were absolutely there all along.