Ep7 Reviews (Spoilers)

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Re: Ep7 Reviews (Spoilers)

Post by Vympel »

The Visual Dictionary / ICS has a lot of info on the state of the galaxy (waiting for my copies to arrive), but the sw.com databank says plenty on the New Republic / First Order / Resistance situation already:

http://www.starwars.com/databank/the-new-republic
The New Republic
The Rebel Alliance became the New Republic after its victory over the Empire at the Battle of Endor. Eager to win over the war-weary citizens of the galaxy, the New Republic revived the Senate, signed a peace treaty – the Galactic Concordance – with the Empire’s remnants, and drastically reduced its military capabilities. That policy aroused the ire of rebel hero Leia Organa, who warned that elements of the Empire were still seeking power. Sidelined from the political process, Organa founded the Resistance to oppose the Empire’s successor state, the mysterious First Order.
http://www.starwars.com/databank/the-first-order
The First Order
The New Republic’s rise reduced the once-mighty Empire to a rump state hemmed in by strict disarmament treaties and punishing reparations. But in the galaxy’s Unknown Regions, former Imperial officers, nobles and technologists plotted a return to power, building fleets and armies in secret. This movement became the First Order, ruled by Supreme Leader Snoke, and is now ready to reclaim the Imperial legacy.
http://www.starwars.com/databank/the-resistance
The Resistance
A small, secretive private military force, the Resistance was founded by rebel hero Leia Organa to monitor the actions of the First Order. Most New Republic power brokers tolerate the Resistance while regarding Organa and her fighters as dead-enders with an unfortunate fixation on the past. Organa’s cash-strapped movement relies on credits, ships and equipment quietly funneled to it from the few senators who share her concerns.
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Re: Ep7 Reviews (Spoilers)

Post by Channel72 »

^ That's pretty much what I gathered from the films - but it would have been nice if the film itself made that way more clear.

Still, it seems like the Resistance is pointless. Why not just make Leia and the good guys directly acting on behalf of the New Republic? Again, it's like Abrams just wanted to make a classic "Rebels vs Empire" movie, instead of a movie that reflected the new post-ROTJ political order, so he invented this "Resistance" as a third actor. Basically, he wanted the good guys to be major underdogs with limited resources, just like ANH. Either that, or Disney insisted on it.

Anyway, after the First Order blew up that planet, presumably the Galaxy is now in a state of total civil war. Except the movie didn't show any response on behalf of the Republic. Hopefully that is shown in subsequent films, and not simply ignored.
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Re: Ep7 Reviews (Spoilers)

Post by Abacus »

Batman wrote:Then he should have sucked even more against Kylo, and yet he held his own for surprisingly long.
Guys, we also have to remember that ANYONE can use a lightsaber. You don't have to be a Jedi, Sith, or force user to be able to pick up a sword and wield it. There are even some cases in the EU where non-Force users have stood toe-to-toe with Jedi using lightsaber technology. Being a Jedi or Sith isn't an automatic win with a lightsaber, otherwise no Jedi or Sith would ever die to blaster fire as long as they had a lightsaber. The Force simply guides you and sets you upon a possible path that you choose to take; that becomes all the more immediate in a battle, the level of awareness being the barometer by which a Jedi's skill is truly seen, as they learn to flow with the Force through the battle, like water gliding around rocks in a river.

We have no idea for how long Ren trained under Luke, or that Luke even tried to teach him any lightsaber techniques (which according to the OT, he knew only a few instinctual styles he made himself since we don't see either Obi-Wan or Yoda teaching him lightsaber techniques). So, the expectation that Ren should somehow be a complete badass just because he dresses the part means nothing.

As for the scene where Finn and his fellow Stormtrooper (armed with what looks like a futuristic kanabo) I have no problem believing that both the Stormtroopers are probably more competent in close quarters fighting than Ren. They've been trained since birth, practically, as soldiers; which means that though they may be better than Ren, they won't have his Force powers to back them up. It also means that while Finn is a decently trained trooper, he isn't as strong or skilled as other, likely longer serving stormies.
Sgt_Artyom wrote:I'm rather curious about why the First Order would destroy a Republic world. General Hux mentions the Republic Fleet in his speech and it sounded like it was rather vaunted in the Republic.

These guys seem to be having trouble fighting a little splinter faction of the New Republic so why in the hell would they destroy the planet, plunging themselves (I'd assume) into war. Seems like a pointless thing to do, you know? Evil for the sake of being evil almost.
This is actually not that hard to understand, if you have any in-depth knowledge of fanatics. The First Order is not a true heir to the Galactic Empire, but rather a group of fanatics who idolize the New Order and seek to emulate it (in name as well as in deed, hence their organization's name and the fact that they built a super weapon). JJ even confirmed this.

You would also be surprised at how effective a small, well trained and well motivated guerrilla force can be. The Resistance receives tacit support from the New Republic, likely under the table funding and access to tech, etc, but are practically even more effective than the Rebel Alliance was (which the Resistance is modeled on). The First Order doesn't have the galaxy-spanning intelligence web that the Galactic Empire had. There are a few spies and informants, as we saw when our heroes went to go ask for information from Maz Kanata. Since she is a well known information broker of sorts, it's no surprise that both the Resistance and the First Order would place watchers among her clientele.

As for their reasoning for destroying several planets? It's to demonstrate their power and resolve. A true fanatic would not rest until they are able to truly show their devotion, to whit the First Order believe, obviously, in the lesson that was meant to be taught by the destruction of Alderaan. In the eyes of the First Order, they're already at war. It's as much a war of physical means as it is about ideals for them, hence whey they want to destroy the New Republic, even though the New Republic has, until now, apparently taken a non-confrontational stance towards former Imperial organizations or newly created sympathizer ones. That, I believe, will dramatically change in Episode 8.
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Re: Ep7 Reviews (Spoilers)

Post by Patroklos »

Nobody is saying Ren is some lights are badass. The issue is Finn and Rey are established in the movie AS NEVER HAVING SEEN A LIGHTSABER IN THERE LIVES. It's not badass versus beginner, it's guy who at least knows something against guys who list laid hands on a tool for the first time. There isn't even any set up dialogue about one of them having used a regular sword like Mutt in KOTCS so there is some reason for them to be competent with swords later.

Not that it would mater, because swords and other meleeweapons ARE NOT LIGHTSABERS.

Do you know who actually gets melee training? The USMC. They have extensive hand to hand combat training as well as bayonet/rifle training. They are the only service who still does this writ large. They had a major refresher twice a year. Despite this, if you were watching a movie and a Mk1 Marine private with zero combat experience suddenly picks up a broadsword and beats the hell out of Highlander, King Arthur, Gladiator or any other character the movie you are watching makes every effort to pass off as an established swordsman expert would you accept that? You can scream as much as you want that Kylo is a lightsaber beginner all you want, THE MOVIE DOES NOT ESTABLISH THIS. They do everything they can to establish Kylo is a powerful Jedi along the lines of every other powerful Jedi we si in six other movies. He only fails when up against the movies established übermensch.

The movie provides zero evidence that Ren is either a middling swordsman or force user. We don't see him stumble against any moods in the movie. Rather what we are shown is Finn and Rey being exceptional.

Rey in particular is established be exceptional AT EVERYTHING, so to accept in this instance she is being incompetent so Rey Kylo can be incompetent is stupid. That's not what the movie established.

On another topic, the fact that some EU material holds the keys to understanding the plot of the franchises main vehicle is irrelevant. And also stupid. 99% of audiences have no clue that material exists, and 90% of them never will. So while that might shore up the universe as a whole (it doesn't everything references above is is asupid fucking mess) it has no bearing on whether this movie itself is good or not. It's packaged as a self contained product. At most I'd accept you having had to have seen the previous movies as it is titled episodically, no blockbuster movie should be understandable only through an additional novel and an obscure batboy technical manual. Did you have to read the book The Great Gadsby to understand the plot of the movie The Great Gatsby?

And one other thing I forgot. Do you remember that time Ren is force pushed it to a giant frozen tree at maybe 30 miles an hour 50 yards away, only to then fall four stories onto rocky frozen group? I'd do to, I then also remover her getting up without the slightest hint of an injury and preceding to beat a Dark Jedi in a LIGHTSABER fight. It's a good thing half the bones in her body are not broken as if she were a human being. This seen evaporated all tension in that fight, it makes the "kylo was injured" reasoning transparent BS. Rey should have been a paraplegic at that point as a BEST case scenario.
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Re: Ep7 Reviews (Spoilers)

Post by Lord Revan »

Well Kylo Ren did take what looked like a direct hit from Chewie's bowcaster that sent armored troopers flying and killed them with 1 hit so it's likely he's more resilient to injury and the fact he suffered only a non-crippling injury doesn't mean he was "weak".
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Re: Ep7 Reviews (Spoilers)

Post by LadyTevar »

All this "Rey Is A SKYWALKER!" "Luke left her on Jakku!!" shit needs to die, imho.

The flashback is clear -- parent/s left her behind, possibly even selling her off to get passage on that ship. That is not something Luke would do. Trying to pull in an unknown baby-momma for Luke out of your ass isn't going to cover it. Hell, Anakin came from no-where and was supposedly the strongest of his generation. Why couldn't Rey be that way, hmm? Hell, she could have so many midichlorians the counter would hit "Tilt". :roll:

Either way, Rey is strong in the Force, but it's not until Ren's got her on the ropes and about to fall into a deep pit that Rey is able to concentrate and get some hits on him. Like the scene on Raz' planet, at first she's just retreating blindly. Only aftr her moment of focus is she able to turn the tables on him -- who by then was badly wounded, had fought two people in succession, and just chased his target over at least a hundred meters in snow. Exhaustion and wounds would have been getting to him at that point.
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Re: Ep7 Reviews (Spoilers)

Post by Nephtys »

Complaining about minimalism is stupid. Nobody cares.

Do you really feel that because they only showed us one star destroyer, instead of thirty, that it detracts from the narrative or story? You'd better not. In-universe, the First Order is clearly reacted to by ALL the characters as having great military power. So presumably, it does. and we only see the ship of Ren and his personal unit.

Same with the New Republic. We see six planets blow up, including one mega-metropolis planet. That's presumably a pretty fucking huge blow, you know, with possibly a hundred billion people killed and the main New Republic fleet blown up in orbit?

You know what, since the First Order revealed this new unprecedented weapon and a recon flight just verified it right before the attack, perhaps 20 fighters were all that could be scrounged up by the local command (Leia's group) that made that flight, to attack it before it blows up another dozen inhabited worlds. Why else wouldn't that cannon be on continuous fire as fast as it could go?

Really, just fill in the blanks with basic logic.

Same with Rey. Clearly, she's not even a 'normal' force user. She has intuition about the force, and is being guided by some other spirit. She learns the most powerful mind trick ever just on her own, and she even learns very capable lightsaber fighting by closing her eyes and concentrating for a few seconds.
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Re: Ep7 Reviews (Spoilers)

Post by Lord Revan »

back in Legends different people had different aspects of the Force they were powerful in so it wasn't just character X has more Force points then character Y there he's more powerful. It's possible that Rey is powerful in an aspect of the Force that allows the user to quickly learn things, while Kylo Ren is powerful at an aspect that allows the user to manipulate things, while in terms of raw talent they equally powerful.
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Re: Ep7 Reviews (Spoilers)

Post by Channel72 »

Patroklos wrote:And one other thing I forgot. Do you remember that time Ren is force pushed it to a giant frozen tree at maybe 30 miles an hour 50 yards away, only to then fall four stories onto rocky frozen group? I'd do to, I then also remover her getting up without the slightest hint of an injury and preceding to beat a Dark Jedi in a LIGHTSABER fight. It's a good thing half the bones in her body are not broken as if she were a human being. This seen evaporated all tension in that fight, it makes the "kylo was injured" reasoning transparent BS. Rey should have been a paraplegic at that point as a BEST case scenario.
Meh... at that point you may as well ask why Kylo Ren doesn't just use the force to pop an artery inside Finn's frontal lobe, or at least just force choke him. Why does Ren even bother fighting Finn with a lightsaber? The answer is there's just some shit you need to let Hollywood get away with for storytelling purposes - as long as it's within reason. It's definitely a subjective call, but I don't think Rey is even close to crossing the line into "invincible superhero" territory. I definitely felt that happened with Anakin, when he like casually jumps out of a hovercraft and falls 10,000 feet without breaking a sweat... but with Rey? Please... I never for one second felt she wasn't in mortal fucking danger and could easily die at any second. It's also obvious that Ren was toying with her to an extent, he probably was more interested in humiliating her, and potentially converting her to the dark side, rather than just killing her. (The fact that he has difficulty fighting Finn is admittedly, more of a stretch, but again, we may as well just ask why he doesn't just use the force to crush his brain or whatever.)
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Re: Ep7 Reviews (Spoilers)

Post by Gaidin »

Patroklos wrote:Nobody is saying Ren is some lights are badass. The issue is Finn and Rey are established in the movie AS NEVER HAVING SEEN A LIGHTSABER IN THERE LIVES. It's not badass versus beginner, it's guy who at least knows something against guys who list laid hands on a tool for the first time. There isn't even any set up dialogue about one of them having used a regular sword like Mutt in KOTCS so there is some reason for them to be competent with swords later.

Not that it would mater, because swords and other meleeweapons ARE NOT LIGHTSABERS.

Do you know who actually gets melee training? The USMC. They have extensive hand to hand combat training as well as bayonet/rifle training. They are the only service who still does this writ large. They had a major refresher twice a year. Despite this, if you were watching a movie and a Mk1 Marine private with zero combat experience suddenly picks up a broadsword and beats the hell out of Highlander, King Arthur, Gladiator or any other character the movie you are watching makes every effort to pass off as an established swordsman expert would you accept that? You can scream as much as you want that Kylo is a lightsaber beginner all you want, THE MOVIE DOES NOT ESTABLISH THIS. They do everything they can to establish Kylo is a powerful Jedi along the lines of every other powerful Jedi we si in six other movies. He only fails when up against the movies established übermensch.

The movie provides zero evidence that Ren is either a middling swordsman or force user. We don't see him stumble against any moods in the movie. Rather what we are shown is Finn and Rey being exceptional.

Rey in particular is established be exceptional AT EVERYTHING, so to accept in this instance she is being incompetent so Rey Kylo can be incompetent is stupid. That's not what the movie established.
Ren is more established as the Errand Runner of his master in this movie. He doesn't have the emotional control of someone who's been doing this for years, decades even. Someone where if you fail at your task, I'll kill you and put someone else in charge. Someone where "I am your father" is just another fact in the book that doesn't mean much until that son is getting hideously murdered right in front of you. No, the person actually running things was on even footing and even seemed to have authority to keep him out of the way when it came to greater objectives. Ren, when something failed was more apt to destroy something in anger instead of work out the plan for the next attempt. He had a ways to go and a lot to learn. His master even had that feeling when the greater failure happened and it was time to bring him back for the next stage of training. Forget comparing him to someone who had a natural aptitude and could figure out some things on their own on the fly. The movie really wasn't trying to establish him as that all that badass. He had a lot of emotional issues and distractions.

That's more his personal issues. The weapons. Meh. I'll let them have their fun.
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Re: Ep7 Reviews (Spoilers)

Post by Ace Pace »

After listening a few times to the soundtrack, I can say I very much like it. It's filled with SW cues without lifting any single track wholesale. The music is quite complex, subtle and is very much fitting for repeated runs.

It's not sweeping or grand, but I don't think all SW music should automatically cleeve to the Imperial March or Duel of Fates. ANH was also pretty "simple" and we all still liked the music.
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Re: Ep7 Reviews (Spoilers)

Post by evillejedi »

Maybe its just how I remember the scene, but Rey didn't seem to have any sort of strategy or technique for fighting Kylo? half of the time she just charged with the lightsaber like a lance and got deflected away. I'm okay with Kylo failing to perform by being undertrained, injured, conflicted about killing his father, not trying to kill a potential 'apprentice' and Rey just channeling emotions/force instinct (huh darkside anyone?) She did show she was competent with a staff in close quarters against multiple opponents at the beginning of the movie. She is a pretty bad Mary Sue, but so was Poe's dogfighting.
I also have trouble with the whole 'some one untrained with a light saber will instantly cut all their limbs off' theory. pointing the glowly death blade away from yourself is pretty obvious and even OT Han treated the lightsaber like a general purpose tool.

My biggest gripe with the movie is that there is little to no lingering threat to set up for Episode VIII. It quite unnecessarily mirrored ANH in this regard (They originally had no idea star wars would be a hit, so having Darth Vader being the only badguy survivor was enough.) The producers should have set up the long term background struggle for the trilogy with this movie because future movies are guaranteed. With Star Killer base destroyed the audience has no reason to believe that there is any threat from the First Order other than whatever Kylo and Snoke are doing. I believe it would have been better for Star Killer base to be disabled from firing; have it jump off to some hiding place (preferably showing some large fleet of the First Order so that we actually have space battles in the next one.) With the ominous potential for the return of the Star Killer weapon and the New Republic having a significant reason for involvement after the destruction of a number of worlds. It sets up a good reason to think that Chewie, Poe and Finn and the other resistance members will have something to do in Episode VIII other than wait for Rey and Kylo to level up.

I am having a lot of difficulty with the Star Killer weapon in general. It has to be one of the worst examples of manipulating time and space for dramatic effect I have ever seen. Either the entire second half of the movie takes place in one star system or the weapon emits some sort of radiation that is naked-eye visible super-luminally across the galaxy and they hit more than the one system than was shown (The novel Fire Upon the deep had a similar concept with hyperspace weaponry)
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Re: Ep7 Reviews (Spoilers)

Post by Gaidin »

evillejedi wrote: I am having a lot of difficulty with the Star Killer weapon in general. It has to be one of the worst examples of manipulating time and space for dramatic effect I have ever seen. Either the entire second half of the movie takes place in one star system or the weapon emits some sort of radiation that is naked-eye visible super-luminally across the galaxy and they hit more than the one system than was shown (The novel Fire Upon the deep had a similar concept with hyperspace weaponry)
Stop thinking about it. You're talking about a series that uses WW2 flight combat in space vacuum when we should more be seeing battles like Battlestar Galactica. It's one of those things they're going to do "just because".
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Re: Ep7 Reviews (Spoilers)

Post by Grumman »

Nephtys wrote:Complaining about minimalism is stupid. Nobody cares.

Do you really feel that because they only showed us one star destroyer, instead of thirty, that it detracts from the narrative or story? You'd better not.
It does detract from the story, because it is harmful to people's suspension of disbelief to have the bad guys kill off a ton of people for the cheap pathos, and then not follow through. It's the same reason people get annoyed by Batman comics for letting the Joker get away with murder.
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Re: Ep7 Reviews (Spoilers)

Post by Channel72 »

So anyway, a while back somebody posted a thread here about like an amalgamation of "leaked" script details that were strung together to form a hypothesized plot synopsis for The Force Awakens.

Surprisingly, it's like... ridiculously accurate for the first half of the movie. Actually, pretty much scene for scene it describes exactly what happens in the movie. (This was posted back in May... 7 months ago.) The one major exception is that the MacGuffin in the synopsis is not a map to find Luke Skywalker (which doesn't really make any sense anyway), but rather is Luke's lightsabre itself. Although it's unclear why everyone is after the lightsaber, presumably it's because a force user would be able to use it to "find" Luke via visions or something, or perhaps there was supposed to be digitally encoded information about Luke's whereabouts. Either way, it makes about as much sense as what actually happened in the film with the "map". (Why do they even need a map? Why not just coordinates?)

Anyway, as I said, apart from the MacGuffin, the synopsis is pretty accurate, scene for scene. That is, until the second half of the movie. At that point, it departs from what appeared in the final product significantly. The details in the synopsis may reflect an earlier draft of the script, or simply inaccurate information on the part of the people who "leaked" these details. I'm inclined to believe it was from an actual earlier draft, given that the first half is pretty much dead-on accurate. If so, it reveals a lot about the thought process here, and what the writers (Kasdan, et. al) were going for or thinking about.

Firstly, the absurd similarity to the Death Star assault in Ep 4 and 6 is totally gone. There's still a First Order base on some snowy planet, but it seems to be some kind of Gothic Castle. And there's a superweapon involved, but it doesn't blow up any planets - the exact nature of what it does is unclear, other than being able to blow up Maz Kanata's castle. (That's another thing, in the earlier version Maz Kanata's castle is on the same planet as the Resistance Base, and that planet is... sigh... Yavin 4.) The final battle is also not a rip-off of the Death Star assault, but instead it seems to be a full fleet vs. fleet attack in orbit above the snowy planet. Also, Princess Leia has a significantly expanded role as the general in charge of the assault. In this version, the Resistance also has some kind of superweapon, but they're unable to use it because the First Order successfully destroys it somehow. However, all the stuff with Han, Kylo Ren and Rey seems to be there... Han goes down to the First Order "base" (which is now like a Gothic Castle instead) to plant bombs, where he meets Kylo Ren, who kills him. Then Ren duels with Rey and Finn in the forest, where Rey beats him, as happened in the actual movie.

So... it looks to me like earlier drafts called for a much different ending battle, but most of the other details were the same. This explains why the "assault on Death Star 3" element of the actual movie felt so rushed and shoehorned in, I think... it likely wasn't part of the script until much later drafts. I would guess that what happened was that the writers were told they needed to edit their ending battle to make it more "Star Wars"-y by meddling Disney executives (or maybe by Abrams), so they ultimately just rewrote it so that it was basically a retread of ANH/ROTJ, and also upped the stakes by changing the super-weapon to something more powerful than the Death Star.

That said, the earlier draft final battle doesn't seem particularly great either, but that may simply be a result of the synopsis not doing it justice (in particular, the details of the First Order's superweapon, and exactly what it even does, is unclear.) Another interesting thing is that the earlier draft doesn't seem to have any urgency or immediate impetus for having the Resistance launch their attack on the First Order base. Rather, they just do it as a matter of course, because like, they're at war, I guess. It's not in reaction to some ticking clock where the First Order is about to blow up the whole Resistance planet. I can imagine that some executive didn't like that, and insisted there needed to be more urgency to the Rebel attack.

So, long story short, it looks like they had all the plot details ironed out a while back, which is why the first half of the movie, and the bits with Han/Kylo Ren/Rey, felt very well thought out and invested with emotion, whereas the assault on "Death Star 3" was just a rushed last-minute writing job shoe-horned in to make the movie more like the original Star Wars. At least, that's my hypothesis here.
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Re: Ep7 Reviews (Spoilers)

Post by Gaidin »

Grumman wrote:
Nephtys wrote:Complaining about minimalism is stupid. Nobody cares.

Do you really feel that because they only showed us one star destroyer, instead of thirty, that it detracts from the narrative or story? You'd better not.
It does detract from the story, because it is harmful to people's suspension of disbelief to have the bad guys kill off a ton of people for the cheap pathos, and then not follow through. It's the same reason people get annoyed by Batman comics for letting the Joker get away with murder.
Except they don't need a fleet of Star Destroyers for Ren's little errand. It's not like TESB where they were sniffing out bases and then trying to lock the system down and prevent retreats and do full on military operations. The guy had one thing to find. One little thing. And it, in the end, wasn't even a part of the overall military operations of the First Order.
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Re: Ep7 Reviews (Spoilers)

Post by Abacus »

For a better idea of the close-quarters stormtrooper, here's a website detailing their look. I have to believe based on that and the movie that melee weapons training was included within that given to the stormtroopers of the First Order.

http://p-bandai.jp/tamashiiwebshouten/a ... 000100738/

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Re: Ep7 Reviews (Spoilers)

Post by AndroAsc »

Not bad. Terrible plot holes. How do you hire such incompetent script writers. Have any of them even watched star wars before?

Questions:

First order, they popped from nowhere. Add some back story. My guess they are imperial remnants, if yes, say it.

Resistance vs New Republic. I have a distinct impression they are not the same. Why? With a good govt in place why is Leia and friends still operating like rebels?

Relationship between New Republic and First Order needs to be expanded.

Where are the fucking capital ships on both side? This let's make episode 7 another ANH has gone too far. In ANH they were rebels with limited resources. There is no excuse now. The first order wiped out several planets and you send starfighters? That's like Soviet nuking the US and we send in a platoon of infantry.

Wow hyperspace time have surely been reduced. How long did it take to charge the weapon? And why does the weapon not have a name? Few hours to charge if I am not mistaken. So they just send han in to do stuff for a few hours, then jump in starfighters less than an hour later. Is the planet just next door?

Why can we see exploding planets from another star system?

Supreme Leader whatever his name is, the palaptine of this story basically. Where did he come from. It is very obvious from prequel and sequel that palpatine and vader was the top of the sith food chain, so how did this guy come into existence? What is his connection with Vader and palps? This dark side dude looks old and seems to be doing it for a while, where was he in the prequel and sequel?

Kylo ren. Worst villian ever. What a pussy. He got shot by chewie with his saber ignited. Does he not know how to block blaster bolts? Fucking padawans can do that. Then he gets owned by an untrained force sensitive. Luke trained from months and got his ass kicked by vader. This kylo shit is an insult to sith and jedi everywhere. No wonder he needs to pray to Vader's mask!

Why did Luke leave. Yes Leia kid turned to the dark side and he just said fuck it and left? This makes no sense. Kylo is a loser considering his stellar performance in this movie, Luke could have just taken him out and be done with it, so why did he leave?
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JI_Joe84
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Re: Ep7 Reviews (Spoilers)

Post by JI_Joe84 »

Hey did any one else notice how diverseified the rebel comand was? Not talking about the alien's, I'm talking the humans. Every time the camera focused on some one it wasn't "just a mother interchangeable white guy" we saw Asians (in some sort of tech/analysis role). <-- slightly stereotype but moving on, Latinos and I can't rember the others but hardly any white guys.
The first order bridge seemed to be the white guys hang out. Just some thing that jumped out at me while in/theatre.
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JI_Joe84
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Re: Ep7 Reviews (Spoilers)

Post by JI_Joe84 »

And what was up with new palpies head? It looked like it had a huge crack running front to back, like a deep crack. What was that?
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Re: Ep7 Reviews (Spoilers)

Post by bilateralrope »

JI_Joe84 wrote:And what was up with new palpies head? It looked like it had a huge crack running front to back, like a deep crack. What was that?
I thought it was a scar.

Did he seem Kaminoan to anyone else ?
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Re: Ep7 Reviews (Spoilers)

Post by AndroAsc »

I am going to nitpick further on terminology. They used the term 'awakening' which has never been used before! It is a disturbance in the force you mother fucking fake Jedi and sith.

Similarly, the falcon is a piece of junk, not garbage. If you are trying to make a reference, get it right!! Is the job requirement in this star wars movie to have not watched star wars in your life?
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Re: Ep7 Reviews (Spoilers)

Post by darkjedi521 »

Thinking about it more, this feels more like how ST:Generations should have gone, in terms of the transition from original to next gen cast. Han's end seems much better/more fitting than Kirk's death in Generations, or Chewie's death in Vector Prime.
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Re: Ep7 Reviews (Spoilers)

Post by Patroklos »

Abacus wrote:For a better idea of the close-quarters stormtrooper, here's a website detailing their look. I have to believe based on that and the movie that melee weapons training was included within that given to the stormtroopers of the First Order.
As would be expected from any premier military originization. However, I would point out that 1.) Just because one dude was good at melee combat does not mean all of them are. Given his specific load out he may part of a specially trained police unit which brings us to 2.) Your local police have riot training which includes using batons and the like. This does not mean they are swordsman too and 3.) the weapon we see used is a stun baton which we see several times requires techniques like aligning it with your forearm to apply strikes, something that can not be done with a lightsaber for obvious reasons.

------

Two new thoughts.

1. I was out shopping for some charity gifts today. For the longest time my go to for these were the small $10 dollar star wars lego kits because I could get a lot of bang for my buck for more kids that way and kids love anything lego or starwars. When I came across the new star wars kits I was stuck by how much I wanted to buy them for myself (and eventually will). I have been a fan of OT sets for a long time but the prequel stuff never interested me in the slightest. This reinforces my original judgment that they got the broad strokes right regarding setting, feel and imagery even if the the movie as a whole is a jumbled mess. I still want to be immersed in this version's world.

2.) Why not just make the openning setting an abandoned orbital battlefield strewn with abandoned wrecks? Rey is hopping between them in an actual pilot able space ship. The epic past feel is still there. She can still be the scavenger loaner. Instead of the seedy town there is run down space station where all the scrap workers base out of. Same frontier poverty imagery, same eclectic mix of aliens and humans. Still the allusion to a past epic battle. But now we have a setting in space, and it solves a lot of the other plot issues later on like why Rey is an old hand around star ships. Just a thought.
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Re: Ep7 Reviews (Spoilers)

Post by bilateralrope »

AndroAsc wrote:I am going to nitpick further on terminology. They used the term 'awakening' which has never been used before! It is a disturbance in the force you mother fucking fake Jedi and sith.
They are not Sith. The Sith order died when the last Apprentice killed the last Master then died from his injuries.
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