The Mandalorian Discussion Thread (spoilers and such)

[Patroklos]

It's Disney SW, so it's guaranteed to be the case.

Why do you think Moff Gideon is out in the Outer Rim anyway? He's one of the "Imperial Remnants" trying to keep the Empire going. And, yes, the First Order is going to grow out of Moff Gideon's actions over the next 30years.

I honestly don't care and wish he was just the dude in charge of a few planets Mando was working unrelated bounties on that had nothing to do with him beside the local security forces working on his dime.

Remember that time Doc Holiday had to sneak into the Arizona governor's mansion and discovered their plot to rekindle the Confederacy, his actions clandestinely underpinning the TRUE cause of WWI? Yeah, me neither, yet somehow his story is still part of one of the greatest Western myth-making events in history despite the lack of grandiose aspirations of being relevant outside a podunk town's law enforcement and politics.

The quoted Wikipedia blurb in the previous post demonstrates why, when working with Disney anyway, small is better.

[Knife]

My guess is that Gideon is actually an agent of the Sith Eternal. As per the Wookieepedia:

The Sith Eternal strove to prevent their master from dying again, and resorted to the science of gene splicing in hopes of building a more suitable vessel for his dark essence. Their experiments led to the creation of various artificial genetic constructs, known as strandcasts, such as Supreme Leader Snoke as well as the Emperor's cloned son, who sired a natural-born Force-sensitive daughter called Rey. None of their endeavors succeeded in producing a viable host for Sidious' soul, however, and he was forced to rely on life support machinery in order to survive.

Eh... is that from a novel or something? Comic? Sounds horrible. Though I guess they needed to figure out a way for Palps to have kids because nobody thought that one through when JJ came cackling into the writers room with that idea.

[Galvatron]

Eh... is that from a novel or something? Comic? Sounds horrible. Though I guess they needed to figure out a way for Palps to have kids because nobody thought that one through when JJ came cackling into the writers room with that idea.

Pretty sure it's from the novelization of TROS.

[Knife]

Ok, never read the novels past TFA.

[Galvatron]

Oddly enough, the idea of Palpatine having a natural-born son never bothered me because he'd have been the primary antagonist in my version of Episode VI:

As of right now, my ROTJ (assuming it even retains that title, which is doubtful) would not be the end of the saga. I'd go the full nine with episode six involving the emperor's son (Prince insert-name-here) taking personal command of Vader's fleet with the intention of capturing and executing Luke. The inevitable moment of truth is when Vader makes his choice to turn against the Empire and save the life of his son.

I still don't see why they had to make him a clone or a strandcast. It's not as if powerful old men can't get laid.

[Solauren]

Or just use the Force like it was implied was done to create Anakin.

[Galvatron]

This new episode felt like a deliberate restoration of the broadest strokes from the old post-ROTJ EU.

Spoiler

Thrawn is alive and out there doing some shit of his own while the resurrected Palpatine is off on some hidden world quietly rebuilding his forces so he can take back the galaxy. It's the Thrawn trilogy then Dark Empire all over again.

[Batman]

Grogu? Seriously? I'm sticking with Baby Yoda. Spoiler

And Thrawn having survived isn't that far fetched. After all in the Rebels finale Sabine and Ahsoka though 'Ezra' had

[Galvatron]

What I'm wondering is this:

Spoiler

Who saved Grogu from the purge? Was it another Jedi? If so, what happened to them?

Maybe Mace Windu survived ROTS, but was too wounded to defend the temple and could only save one youngling: the most powerful and promising of his species since Yoda.

[Batman]

Spoiler

The Legends EU was lousy with surviving Jedi and even Disney's canon has Ahsoka and Kanan. And what if he was saved by mundanes?

[Galvatron]

Spoiler

That's entirely possible. Maybe even a droid.

I just have this vision in my head of someone smuggling Grogu out of the temple during Order 66 like the midwife and Elora Danan from Willow (another Lucasfilm IP). I can practically hear the music right now.



Also, we never did find out what happened to Quinlan Vos...

[LadyTevar]

My brother, well-trained in Kenjutsu and SCA fighting, was snorting at the Saber v/s Spear fight. However, as I pointed out, Ahsoka wasn't trying to kill Morgan Elsbeth, but had to avoid being killed.

My brother (who hasn't finished Clone Wars or Rebels) wondered if this was the first time Jedi and Mandolorian fought together for one purpose. I've not yet seen Siege of Mandolore, but I assume the Jedi were there helping?

[Galvatron]

My brother (who hasn't finished Clone Wars or Rebels) wondered if this was the first time Jedi and Mandolorian fought together for one purpose.

Nope. The Jedi in TCW and Rebels had Mandalorian enemies and allies aplenty. In fact, the ruler of Mandalore in TCW was Obi-Wan's one-time love interest.

[Broomstick]

So, some of Baby Yoda's behavior may be due to the trauma experienced during Order 66 and escaping the slaughter (however that happened)? Maybe emotional regression, accounting for the infantile behavior? Having fear and anger would account for some of his behavior.

[Darth Lucifer]

Re: "The Jedi" - The entire fandom just got BTFO, there's no other way to say it. Nerdgasms are happening all over the world and will continue for a very long time. Every little detail of this is going to be dissected, reviewed and just all around praised as the very best episode of this series and one of the greatest entries into all of Star Wars Media. IMO "The Jedi" should be nominated for an Emmy, several in fact. I would be kind of surprised if it wasn't, though it's sure to win other awards.

There are many Easter Eggs and references that fans of the Clone Wars series will pick up on as well as nods to the Original Trilogy. This is simply a Star Wars fan's wet dream for so many reasons. And fans of Martial Arts films will appreciate this as well; not so much for the technical prowess, but the final battle had the air of the best Samurai and Kung Fu/Wuxia movies. I only wish it lasted longer. As a bonus, the woman playing the evil magistrate, Morgan Elsbeth, was Diana Lee Inosanto, Goddaughter of Bruce Lee and whose father was a protege of Lee. Definitely a wonderful villain that I hope to see more of in the future.

Rosario Dawson was perfect casting for Ahsoka Tano. The makeup is spot on, same with the costuming. Star Wars fans would demand no less than absolute perfection for Ahsoka's first real adventure in the live action world (her lame cameo in TROS doesn't count to me). And "The Jedi" delivers this and so much more. She has the gravitas of a true Jedi, and Dawson's performance sells it flawlessly. I don't think they could have found anyone better. Tano doesn't have the Force, she's got the goddamned TURBO FORCE, and every action scene is pure adrenaline. And when she wasn't slicing everything and everyone all to hell, she walks around like a Shaolin master, like she owns the fucking planet and everything on it.

"Wake up, little buddy. It's time to say goodbye." I had a feeling that it wouldn't happen, but I still wept hard. Not only has little Grogu (cool name, but he'll always be Baby Yoda) bonded with Mando/Djarin Din, he's bonded with the audience and the thought of him leaving his surrogate father is heartbreaking. I know other scenes in Star Wars have made me shed tears, but for me, that scene of what could have been their last moments together was a real tearjerker.

Some other thoughts...I love the set piece of the courtyard they made, it's evokes that serene asian setting combined with Star Wars flair. I also loved how the magistrate answered back after Ahsoka lit up her lightsabers, by pounding her beskar spear onto the ground. It was like they were exchanging war cries. Also, like a good samurai/kung fu duel it has that "feeling out period" where the opponents are gauging one another. And the dramatic Pause, pacing around and sizing each other up some more.

Mando's own little duel at the end kept me guessing...I wasn't really sure that the dood was gonna truly surrender, but I wasn't really surprised when he didn't.

Baby Yoda wants the shiny knob again...made me LOL when he used the Force to unscrew it from the handle. I love how Mando later used it during the scene where Ahsoka was testing him.

I liked the nod to the HK-Series of hunter droids. I didn't get a good look at them, but they seem close enough to HK-47 from KOTOR. Also noticed they seemed to speak Huttese.

Grand. Admiral. Thrawn. What a name drop. I can't wait to see how this pans out. It's cool they're finally gonna bring him into the live action canon.

I took notice of Ahsoka's white "laser swords", and the handles are definitely different than the ones she had from Clone Wars. I remember when she was gifted her blue sabers, which symbolized the bond between her and Anakin. Apparently, she has let go of that bond and seemingly her bond to the Jedi Order in general. Even though she's got new lightsabers, I had to jump into Paint Shop Pro just to see what it would have looked like if she still had the ones from Clone Wars (link to image as not to shred the page formatting): https://i.imgur.com/4UZrR62.png

Rating: 11/10

[Darth Lucifer]

Guess I was mistaken on Ahsoka's lightsaber handles...they do look like the curved ones she got later on, perhaps she retuned them or put different crystals in to make them white.

[Knife]

I thought it was really good but had some hang ups.

1) Asoka herself looked pretty good. They seemed to have muted her head tail thingies (Leku?) from Rebels a bit. And I'm not sure, but I think they CGI'd her face at times. Most the time it looked good, then some scenes it looked... well plastic. All in all though, it looked good.

2) So when Asoka was fighting, they did extremely well with that and sold her fighting style from the cartoons. The jumping and acrobats. Duel wield. It looked like her from the cartoons. Well done.

3) Her dialogue, though, was hit and miss for me. Some of the stuff pulled me out of SOD. She went out of her way to say she was NOT a JEDI in the end of the CW and Rebels. That particular trauma seemed hard coded into her. That she did not tell that to Mando seemed odd, as does any thought of training a Jedi child. I was not surprised, in the end, that she did not want to train Grogo; rather, surprised at the reason.

Oh I get she was traumatized by Aankin's fall. But hugely surprised she even contemplated training Grogu at all. And considering she was Fulcrum during the Rebellion, I don't see why she would not know about Luke and just refer Mando to him with Grogu.

4) Also, Grogu is a dumb name.

5) I liked the end fights. It went all the way back to the beginning of SW. Westerns and Samuri movies. Gunslingers dueling with quick draw and sneaking people up on the roof of buildings getting shot and falling off them. I mean really, they could have had a tumbleweed blow across the street between Mando and the Merc.

Contrast to that, in the villa thing, Asoka and the Magistrate going all Samuri. Though I personally thought having Asoka lose a saber in the fight was silly. I get they were building drama but the girl just shit stomped her way through a dozen guards and an HK droid like it was nothing. This is also Asoka, trained by Anakin and fought in the clonewars, cross sabers with Grevious, Maul, Inquisitors, and even Vader. It was dumb that it was even close and she was partially disarmed.

[Galvatron]

Contrast to that, in the villa thing, Asoka and the Magistrate going all Samuri. Though I personally thought having Asoka lose a saber in the fight was silly. I get they were building drama but the girl just shit stomped her way through a dozen guards and an HK droid like it was nothing. This is also Asoka, trained by Anakin and fought in the clonewars, cross sabers with Grevious, Maul, Inquisitors, and even Vader. It was dumb that it was even close and she was partially disarmed.

Ahsoka wasn't trying to kill her though, so she must have been holding back while the magistrate clearly intended to land a killing stroke.

Besides, Ahsoka did warn Mando that the magistrate shouldn't be underestimated. I therefore assume she's a highly skilled warrior in her own right.

[Darth Lucifer]

Contrast to that, in the villa thing, Asoka and the Magistrate going all Samuri. Though I personally thought having Asoka lose a saber in the fight was silly. I get they were building drama but the girl just shit stomped her way through a dozen guards and an HK droid like it was nothing. This is also Asoka, trained by Anakin and fought in the clonewars, cross sabers with Grevious, Maul, Inquisitors, and even Vader. It was dumb that it was even close and she was partially disarmed.

Some else on the fight, I was more bothered how easily Elsbeth was disarmed, or it least it looked that way to me. I can agree with some of your points; my suspension of disbelief made me imagine a classic Kung Fu movie villain. Sure, Ahsoka is mega-tier badass in every way just like the heroes of martial arts cinema, but I also didn't think Elsbeth was built up enough to fit that kung fu trope of somebody who was truly a boss-level nemesis.

I get what they wanted to portray, this evil baddie who's got mad skills of her own. Like Pai Mei from those old Shaw Brothers Kung Fu movies (Fist of the White Lotus, Executioners From Shaolin), they establish him as a Master-level villain throughout the film. Which couldn't be done in a 35-40 minute episode with a different plot than a martial arts movie. Maybe if they had shown Elsbeth on the battlefield closer to the beginning of the episode instead of standing at the top of the gates, they could have made her seem more threatening. It would lend some more credibility to even be able to keep up with a Jedi Knight, let alone disarm one.

[Batman]

Agreed. Ahsoka is up there with the best the Jedi had to offer. Whatshername villain lady should've been a complete pushover. Though other than Ahsoka losing her second lightsaber the fight never really looked like she was losing-afterall she didn't want to kill Whatshertname, she needed her alive to tell her where Thrawn is.And let's face it, super one-sided fights no matter how much the facts say they should be are boring and out of universe this 'is' a TV show meant to entertain

[LadyTevar]

I was hoping Ahsoka would join Mando and Grogu, TBH.

However, when she mentioned taking Grogu to Tython, my brother and I both squeed because we play SW:TOR and we know EXACTLY which mountain she's talking. Now, the question is, how much will they use from SW:TOR's Tython?

[Galvatron]

Maybe Morgan Elsbeth is something like the Echani from the old EU. We know how much Filoni loves to revive elements of it for the new canon, especially KOTOR.

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Echani/Legends

[chimericoncogene]

"The Jedi" had its flaws - I always found Ahsoka's face in Rebels and live-action insufficiently angular (I greatly preferred her Clone Wars cartoon look), Ahsoka definitely needed taller montrals, and the traditional sci-tech/maximalist nitpicks nagged at me occasionally.

But overall, the episode was a knockout, with a solid plot, good action (the saber/staff and pistol duels were very nice), and squeal-inducing introductions, dialog, references and name-drops (EEEEEEE!). Also, Tython is coming back, baby!

(I might rate "the Siege" slightly higher than "the Jedi", just for Bo-Katan's surprise introduction and the acknowledgement that a multi-thousand tonne cargo spacecraft with a petawatt+ engine creates significant blast on liftoff.)

(Seriously, Star Wars doesn't have to be perfect. Competently done Star Wars is more than sufficient to please fans and cause traditionalistic maximalists to self-servingly ignore, justify, and paper over inconsistencies)

[Galvatron]

I'm far more excited to see Tython than I was to see Ahch-To or even Jedha. Bonus points if we ever see Ossus or Moraband (aka Korriban).

[Broomstick]

The issue with Ahsoka's montrals/lekku are that they used a physical prop instead of CGI and a lot of action sequences as well. It was a compromise between "it looks the way we want it to" and "it has to stay on the person's head while they're moving around". Gosh darn it to heck, I hate it when reality intrudes into my SF that way!