The Mandalorian Discussion Thread (spoilers and such)

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Re: The Mandalorian Discussion Thread (spoilers and such)

Post by LadyTevar » 2020-11-14 01:57pm

On a Side Note: Bo-Katan did an excellent smackdown on Din when he tried to accuse her of not being Mandalorian.

1. She's the third generation to wear her armor. Din literally just bought his.
2. She was born on Mandalore. Din was adopted, and possibly never on Mandalore, since "it's cursed".
3. She fought in The Great Purge, implying the Children of the Watch didn't.

Totally pointed out all the ways SHE was more Mandalorian than Din would ever be in three simple sentences.
Oh, also loved the hints of inheriting v/s buying your armor. British Class Warfare at the finest.
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Re: The Mandalorian Discussion Thread (spoilers and such)

Post by Juubi Karakuchi » 2020-11-14 03:45pm

LadyTevar wrote:
2020-11-14 01:50pm
Juubi Karakuchi wrote:
2020-11-14 12:43pm

A fun episode, but you’ve got to feel for that Imperial captain. Talk about a raw deal.

I’ve been giving this (probably far too much) thought.
1. At no point do we have any evidence that Din was every ON Mandalore. He may have grown up solely in Enclaves on various planets.

2. In Clone Wars, we meet Duchess Sabine Kryze, who had won a Civil War against the "Warrior Clans" who were exiled to Concordia. Some of those Clans became "Death Watch", and kept up a insurgency. Others left and became "The Old Mandalorians", according to RPG Sourcebook "Friends Like These". After Duchess Sabine beats a second coup attempt are the Death Watch scattered.

My thought is Din's Enclave was one of the Warrior Clans exiled to Concordia. Whether they were Death Watch, or took scattered Death Watch members in after the second coup is unknown. However, it seems to be leaning towards the idea that the Children of the Watch had abandoned Mandalore at some point between Duchess Sabine's reign, Dark Maul's coup, the start of the Empire, and the "Great Purge".

While knowing WHEN the Children of the Watch left might explain Din's ignorance, there's also the more likely explanation that the Children of the Watch's leaders chose to isolate themselves from Mandalore completely. They are, after all, a Cult. Cults isolate from the outside world in small Enclaves, indoctrinate their children to follow ONLY their own Rules and Worldview, and allow only certain members of their group to go out into the world, both to protect the other cultists, and to avoid too much exposure to the Outside.
I’ve checked the relevant episode. To clarify, Djarin claims that he was “raised in the fighting corps”, treated as one of their own, and swore to the creed upon coming of age. He also mentions that the only record of his name was kept on Mandalore. So admittedly it’s not outright stated that he was on Mandalore at the time. The one thing that suggests he might have been on Mandalore is the fact that Gideon somehow knows who he is; and that Djarin figures out who he is based on that fact. I’m inclined to concede the point.

One other minor fact. In the episode, Djarin didn’t know who the Children of the Watch were, and Bo-Katan had to explain the meaning of it. On that basis, LadyTevar’s claim about total isolation seems about right; he honestly did not know that his group was a cult, regarded by other Mandalorians as a hive of weirdos.

The only odd part about this is that in Episode 8, the Mandalorian who carried young Djarin to safety had the Death Watch signet on his or her pauldron. That said, IIRC Maul’s faction were wearing red armour at that time, while the ‘continuity Death Watch’ (aka those who rejected Maul) were in their traditional blue; though Bo-Katan’s group did not wear the DW signet. Also, their armour was fairly uniform, while the Children were customised armour

The explanation I’m leaning towards, therefore, is that Djarin was rescued by the Death Watch while Pre Viszla was still in command; the colour and signet fit, and the timing allows for it. This would be while the DW was in exile, and no longer inclined to play nice with the Confederacy, but before they met Maul. Djarin was then dropped off at a friendly Mandalorian enclave, and raised as a warrior there. This enclave was either run by the Children of the Watch, or else taken over by them not long afterwards.

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Re: The Mandalorian Discussion Thread (spoilers and such)

Post by Knife » 2020-11-14 04:27pm

Bo Katarn herself left the Death Watch after Maul killed Vizla. Or maybe Death Watch under her left Maul. Or broke apart. We do know that Death Watch itself along with any clan that was against the New Mandalorians during the Republic were exiled to Concordia. We also know that some groups after Satine's death were exiled or self exiled like Fenn Rau of the Concordian Protectors.

It would seem that 'following the old ways' inherently makes splinter groups out of Mandalorians.
They say, "the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots." I suppose it never occurred to them that they are the tyrants, not the patriots. Those weapons are not being used to fight some kind of tyranny; they are bringing them to an event where people are getting together to talk. -Mike Wong

But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red

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Re: The Mandalorian Discussion Thread (spoilers and such)

Post by GuppyShark » 2020-11-14 07:23pm

It's going to be interesting to see how he reacts to the identity crisis he's experiencing goes. His whole life he was raised to the "Creed" of the "Mandalore" and then when he finally meets them, they inform him he's part of a splinter cult with extremist beliefs.

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Re: The Mandalorian Discussion Thread (spoilers and such)

Post by LadyTevar » 2020-11-15 06:01pm

Knife wrote:
2020-11-14 04:27pm
Bo Katarn herself left the Death Watch after Maul killed Vizla. Or maybe Death Watch under her left Maul. Or broke apart. We do know that Death Watch itself along with any clan that was against the New Mandalorians during the Republic were exiled to Concordia. We also know that some groups after Satine's death were exiled or self exiled like Fenn Rau of the Concordian Protectors.

It would seem that 'following the old ways' inherently makes splinter groups out of Mandalorians.
From what I've seen on Wookiepedia:
1. The Civil War that got Duchess Sabine Kryze into power ended with the Warrior Clans exiled to Concordia. (Pre "CloneWars")
2. Some of the Warrior Clans left entirely, while the rest became "Death Watch". ("Clone Wars")
3. Bo-Katan's Nite Owls were part of Death Watch under Viszla, but when Maul killed Sabine and Viszla, Bo-Katan revolted against him. ("CloneWars")
4. Bo-Katan's faction wins, and she's briefly Regent of Mandalore until she refuses to bow to Emperor Palpatine. The Saxon Clan stages a coup and takes over Mandalore as Palpatine's puppets.
5. The DarkSaber is found, and Bo-Katan earns the trust of the Wren Clan fighting against the Imperial puppets controlling Mandalore. Bo-Katan is gifted the DarkSaber and declared The Manda'Lore. ("Rebels" 2 years BBY)
6. The Great Purge (BBY? Pre-Endor? Never seen a date)
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Re: The Mandalorian Discussion Thread (spoilers and such)

Post by LadyTevar » 2020-11-16 10:56am

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Nitram, slightly high on cough syrup: Do you know you're beautiful?
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Re: The Mandalorian Discussion Thread (spoilers and such)

Post by Dino-Mario » 2020-11-20 07:01pm

Knife wrote:
2020-11-07 11:56am
Were those the Spiders from Rebels on the planet Atollon?
Actually the Mando arachnids are identified as "Ice spiders", the ones from Rebels are a different species called Krykna. Both use Ralph McQuarrie's concept art as the basis of their design, hence the similarity.

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Re: The Mandalorian Discussion Thread (spoilers and such)

Post by Dino-Mario » 2020-11-20 07:03pm

Anyway, back to the latest episodes, there are some things to unpack here:
Spoiler
-Episode 11: The Child nearly got devoured three times by monsters, right after the episode where he kept munching on the Frog Lady's eggs. Karma doesn't make exceptions. Hooray, Bo-Katan is back! Too bad those Quarrens were a-holes like many others we've seen. I really wanna see more friendly members of the species.

-Episode 12: The Myhtrol is back, huh? "M" count? Eh, shouldn't make a big fuss about Midichlorians, tho. I mean, Clone Wars made it abundantly clear that they are not the Force itself, but merely the link between the Living Force and the Cosmic Force. But eh, whatever. Let's keep seeing how this ride unfolds.

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Re: The Mandalorian Discussion Thread (spoilers and such)

Post by Galvatron » 2020-11-20 10:28pm

This is starting to remind me of Thrawn's machinations from the old EU. Also...

Spoiler
I wonder how extensive Gideon's assets are that he can simply shrug off losses like that base and all those troops. If he's traveling around on an Arquitens-class light cruiser then he may not even have a single ISD in his fleet.

I also wish the stormtroopers weren't such incompetent buffoons. By all means, let them die in the base explosion, but they should at least be able to hold their own in a firefight without getting mowed down so damn easily and therefore seem like a credible threat.

Didn't the body in the lab look like it had Snoke's scarred head?

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Re: The Mandalorian Discussion Thread (spoilers and such)

Post by Broomstick » 2020-11-21 05:23am

Spoiler
Hell, stormtroopers on those bikes shouldn't be taking each other out during a chase, either. WTF? Sure, it's a bit of comedic relief and they are literally faceless mooks but for Og's sake don't over do it!
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Re: The Mandalorian Discussion Thread (spoilers and such)

Post by Patroklos » 2020-11-21 11:27am

Why does it matter if he was ever on Mandalore? Are immigrants to a country not REAL citizens?
Spoiler
This last episode entrenched a bad trend evident from the last season's finale. We have a horrible mook inflation problem. In the finale, they essentially killed an infantry battalion worth of stormtroopers and all I could think was: these enemies are not challenges, so our heroes are not special. They did the exact same thing this week only threw in a speeder and a squadron of TIES to make it more ridiculous.

A hero's prowess is directly proportional to the difficulty and seriousness of the situations and enemies they face. That sometimes requires cleverness and subterfuge rather than just going in guns blazing. If you can walk up to your enemy straight up and challenge him at his strongest and advantageous scenario and win there is no drama or suspense. You could have just done that at any time.

This has always been a SW thing, especially since the ST, but I was hoping smaller stories would change things. They hinted at the beginning that the Empire forces might have been somehow degraded, but now they are portrayed as professional, well trained, dedicated, and well equipped in all cases except when they need to jump out of cover to be killed by the dozen with zero effort. The disconnect is jarring.
I maintain that having the Empire and New Republic be anything but bit characters is a mistake. Both entities should be part of the world-building background, but the stories would be better served existing between them rather than incorporating them as direct major plot movers. Or at least save them as the final act Villians/allies.

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Re: The Mandalorian Discussion Thread (spoilers and such)

Post by Galvatron » 2020-11-21 01:23pm

I blame ROTJ for turning stormtroopers into paper people. At least it could be argued that the ones in ANH and TESB were ordered to let the heroes get away, but "an entire legion" of the Emperor's "best troops" got their asses kicked on Endor when everything was on the line.

In fact, I pretty much blame ROTJ for setting the tone in everything that came afterward.

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Re: The Mandalorian Discussion Thread (spoilers and such)

Post by bilateralrope » 2020-11-21 03:26pm

No vehicle on that base should have had any trouble launching from that platform. If a vehicle can't fly for at least long long enough to safely reach the ground, it should never have been deployed to that base.

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Re: The Mandalorian Discussion Thread (spoilers and such)

Post by Broomstick » 2020-11-21 05:08pm

Or, at least it should be on cliffside "launchpad" - non-flying vehicles directed towards the mesa level fine, but having stuff parked next to a drop off that can't fly? Stupid. Just as stupid as no guard rails for a teeny walkway to access control above a lava pit. Clearly, Star Wars has never heard of OSHA.
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Re: The Mandalorian Discussion Thread (spoilers and such)

Post by Batman » 2020-11-21 06:44pm

The 'no guardrails' thing goes all the way back to ANH and is so persistent throughout visual Star Wars that it pretty much has to be on purpose out of universe.
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Re: The Mandalorian Discussion Thread (spoilers and such)

Post by Galvatron » 2020-11-21 08:22pm

Spoiler
FWIW, I transcribed the science officer's report:
Replicated the results of the subsequent trials, which also resulted in catastrophic failure. There were promising effects for an entire fortnight, but then, sadly, the body rejected the blood. I highly doubt we'll find a donor with a higher M-count, though. I recommend that we suspend all experimentation. I fear that the volunteer will meet the same regrettable fate if we proceed with the transfusion. Unfortunately, we have exhausted our initial supply of blood. The Child is small, and I was only able to harvest a limited amount without killing him. If these experiments are to continue as requested, we would again require access to the donor. I will not disappoint you again, Moff Gideon.
Still not sure what to make of the bodies in the tanks though. Are they the dead recipients of Baby Yoda's blood or failed attempts at creating alternative donors?

I'm also not convinced that the dark troopers have anything to do with them. Gideon already has quite a few and they didn't look like failed experiments to me.

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Re: The Mandalorian Discussion Thread (spoilers and such)

Post by Batman » 2020-11-21 09:01pm

Gideon has guys in 'black Stormtrooper armour'. That's not the same as a 'Dark Trooper'
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'

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Re: The Mandalorian Discussion Thread (spoilers and such)

Post by Galvatron » 2020-11-21 09:09pm

The audio description track on Disney+ explicitly identified them as dark troopers. Whether they're droids, cyborgs or just suits of armor remains to be seen though.

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Re: The Mandalorian Discussion Thread (spoilers and such)

Post by LadyTevar » 2020-11-21 10:30pm

I have a feeling we'll know more, once Gideon uses that tracking chip to get the Child again
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Re: The Mandalorian Discussion Thread (spoilers and such)

Post by Knife » 2020-11-22 10:25am

Might be niffty to tie it into the Knights of Ren.
They say, "the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots." I suppose it never occurred to them that they are the tyrants, not the patriots. Those weapons are not being used to fight some kind of tyranny; they are bringing them to an event where people are getting together to talk. -Mike Wong

But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red

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Re: The Mandalorian Discussion Thread (spoilers and such)

Post by Patroklos » 2020-11-23 07:52pm

Given what pushovers they were, I hope not. There should be exactly zero tie-ins with the ST, and not just because those turds would be albatrosses weighing it down. Small stories in a small corner of the galaxy. Like the westerns it draws from.

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Re: The Mandalorian Discussion Thread (spoilers and such)

Post by Galvatron » 2020-11-23 08:44pm

Patroklos wrote:
2020-11-23 07:52pm
There should be exactly zero tie-ins with the ST,
I think you're going to be disappointed.

https://ew.com/tv/2019/09/04/the-mandal ... rst-order/

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Re: The Mandalorian Discussion Thread (spoilers and such)

Post by Patroklos » 2020-11-24 09:05am

It's Disney SW, so it's guaranteed to be the case.

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Re: The Mandalorian Discussion Thread (spoilers and such)

Post by LadyTevar » 2020-11-24 02:12pm

Patroklos wrote:
2020-11-24 09:05am
It's Disney SW, so it's guaranteed to be the case.
Why do you think Moff Gideon is out in the Outer Rim anyway? He's one of the "Imperial Remnants" trying to keep the Empire going. And, yes, the First Order is going to grow out of Moff Gideon's actions over the next 30years.
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Re: The Mandalorian Discussion Thread (spoilers and such)

Post by Galvatron » 2020-11-24 02:46pm

My guess is that Gideon is actually an agent of the Sith Eternal. As per the Wookieepedia:
The Sith Eternal strove to prevent their master from dying again, and resorted to the science of gene splicing in hopes of building a more suitable vessel for his dark essence. Their experiments led to the creation of various artificial genetic constructs, known as strandcasts, such as Supreme Leader Snoke as well as the Emperor's cloned son, who sired a natural-born Force-sensitive daughter called Rey. None of their endeavors succeeded in producing a viable host for Sidious' soul, however, and he was forced to rely on life support machinery in order to survive.

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