Ep7 Reviews (Spoilers)

[Lord Revan]

I really hope Rey isn't Luke's daughter (and saying they're deliberately misleading the audience if she isn't is quite a stretch). It would be really a downer if the entirety of three trilogies of movies pin the entire galaxy's drama on the machinations around one man and his descendants.

The only upside of such a godawful idea would be the awkward scene where Luke has to explain why he apparently left his daughter on Tattooine Jakku with a camp of scavengers. Even Harry Potter had the Dursleys.

My current theory is that Kylo was supposed to kill Rey, but he couldn't bring himself to do it and marooned her on Jakku instead. Everyone else believes Rey is long dead.

If Luke didn't know where Rey was took (and she was her daughter), having the world belive Rey was dead would also explain why Luke would abanddon his position so easily, he didn't go "I failed, I must go into exile" but rather "My daughter is out there I must find a way to find her" since Luke would most likely sense a death of family member and thus would have a reason to belive Rey was still alive.

[Galvatron]

It would also explain Kylo's strange reaction when that First Order officer told him that a girl was helping Finn.

[Mad]

I'll reiterate what I said earlier in this thread: I think there's more to Luke's "exile" than him simply being in hiding, or even looking for information. Kylo said he heard the call of the light. That sounds strange, as everything we've heard so far is that you "fall" to the Dark Side, and climbing out isn't easy. I wonder if Luke is trying to reach him--redeem him--through the Force. I suspect Luke is providing the "call of the Light."

[Borgholio]

Just came back from my second viewing. Aside from a noisy kid two seats down and some asshat who kept clapping at all the wrong moments, I actually enjoyed myself more than the first time. This time I was able to pick up on all the little details such as vocal inflections and facial expressions that I missed the first time around. Once again, I have to admit I had a grin on my face for the whole movie. Despite it's flaws (which didn't seem that big a deal this time around), I was finding myself impatient to buy it on DVD. I can't wait until Episode 8.

[The Romulan Republic]

I really hope Rey isn't Luke's daughter (and saying they're deliberately misleading the audience if she isn't is quite a stretch). It would be really a downer if the entirety of three trilogies of movies pin the entire galaxy's drama on the machinations around one man and his descendants.

The only upside of such a godawful idea would be the awkward scene where Luke has to explain why he apparently left his daughter on Tattooine Jakku with a camp of scavengers. Even Harry Potter had the Dursleys.

My current theory is that Kylo was supposed to kill Rey, but he couldn't bring himself to do it and marooned her on Jakku instead. Everyone else believes Rey is long dead.

That would make a lot of sense. It would make Luke look like less of a dick, it would explain why Rey was left with some random asshole, it would explain why Han and Leia never told Rey who she was (though during the conversation with Lupita N'yongo's character, it was implied Han knew), and it would tie in to Ren's doubt and conflict over the Dark Side and explain why he flipped out when he heard about a girl on Jakku helping the droid. Might explain why he wants to train her too, and even factor into why he lost the duel with her.

Though if Ren knew her as a kid, it would make the rape undertones of his interrogation of her even creepier.

[Terralthra]

She was old enough when abandoned to remember being abandoned, at least in flashes. She then sees Kylo Ren without his helmet, and has zero reaction, not even a "you look familiar." If it turns out he left her on Jakku instead of Luke, there's still a big hole there: why does she not recognize her abandoner when she sees them face to face?

Basically, I don't think that having a strong Force vision when touching an object that has passed through the hands of three different powerful Force users means she's necessarily related to any of them. She didn't hear the voice of Luke nor Anakin, she heard the voices of Kenobi and Yoda, the mentors of two of the wielders of that sabre, as she will herself shortly encounter her new mentor.

[The Romulan Republic]

She was old enough when abandoned to remember being abandoned, at least in flashes. She then sees Kylo Ren without his helmet, and has zero reaction, not even a "you look familiar." If it turns out he left her on Jakku instead of Luke, there's still a big hole there: why does she not recognize her abandoner when she sees them face to face?

Because she was a little child, their might be some repressed memory stuff happening, she only remember a brief glimpse of being stranded in a freaking Force vision, she seemed not to know who had left her, and Force sensing is spotty in its reliability?

Basically, I don't think that having a strong Force vision when touching an object that has passed through the hands of three different powerful Force users means she's necessarily related to any of them. She didn't hear the voice of Luke nor Anakin, she heard the voices of Kenobi and Yoda, the mentors of two of the wielders of that sabre, as she will herself shortly encounter her new mentor.

That's an interesting notion.

[The Romulan Republic]

Something else I noticed, which might have already been commented on:

When they're escaping from Ren's ship, Finn tells Poe they need to leave the system, or something to that effect (don't remember the exact wording). Doesn't this strongly imply that in the new trilogy, Ties now have hyperdrives?

[Mad]

When they're escaping from Ren's ship, Finn tells Poe they need to leave the system, or something to that effect (don't remember the exact wording). Doesn't this strongly imply that in the new trilogy, Ties now have hyperdrives?

Or at least that the two-seater model they had did.

[The Romulan Republic]

They really do seem to have made the rank and file bad guys and their gear better than in the OT.

The Tie pilots that chased the Falcon were highly capable.
Stormtroopers apparently have flamethrowers and guys who can go toe to to with lightsabers in hand to hand.
Ties (or at least that type, as you said) have ejector seats with parachutes, apparently (how Finn survived), seat two, and seem to have hyperdrives. Also seem a tad more durable, since they can crash-land and leave semi-intact wreckage after being hit instead of just blowing up.

[Patroklos]

They were still fodder the second an X-wing shows up, the disparity between ground fire vs a TIE/X-wing aside.

Also it could simple be that Finn didn't know TIEs don't have hyperdive. Poe didn't care where Finn wanted to go, so he would have told him anything. If you ask a Mk1 USMC boot how fast an Airforce B1 can fly he will tell you to fuck off because why would he know that?

[The Romulan Republic]

They were still fodder the second an X-wing shows up, the disparity between ground fire vs a TIE/X-wing aside.

They were fodder to Poe, said to be the best Rebel pilot. Didn't they shoot down some ordinary X-wing pilots (just as in the OT, for that matter)?

Also it could simple be that Finn didn't know TIEs don't have hyperdive. Poe didn't care where Finn wanted to go, so he would have told him anything. If you ask a Mk1 USMC boot how fast an Airforce B1 can fly he will tell you to fuck off because why would he know that?

Maybe. But I feel like rather than arguing about going to Jakku, Poe might have just said that they can't go anywhere else. Or suggested stealing a shuttle or something like that instead of a Tie.

[Kojiro]

The TIE/sf as it's called is a pure plot device. It's the first class of TIE to seat two people (so they can both escape), that has shields (so it's not obliterated by ground fire), has a turret (so Finn isn't useless), a hyperdrive so escape is possible and has atmosphere (so they don't need pilot suits). And it apparently ejects it's pilots separately, so they can be spread out and lose one another.

[Lord Revan]

I took it as Poe's ejector not working properly so he didn't get ejected when it should have.

[Patroklos]

Dual ejection systems are time delayed anyway, only bad things can happen when you launch two humans in close proximity from fast moving objects with rockets at the same time.

[Grumman]

The TIE/sf as it's called is a pure plot device. It's the first class of TIE to seat two people (so they can both escape), that has shields (so it's not obliterated by ground fire), has a turret (so Finn isn't useless), a hyperdrive so escape is possible and has atmosphere (so they don't need pilot suits). And it apparently ejects it's pilots separately, so they can be spread out and lose one another.

Even within those parameters it would still be trivially easy to do this better than Abrams did: just make it a derivative of the TIE Advanced, or a mix of the TIE Advanced and the TIE Bomber. It's almost as recognisable as the basic TIE fighter, it already has the hyperdrive and shields, and it's got a bigger fuselage.

[Purple]

I don't know. Personally I prefer the new fighters as they are. They are clearly a derivative of the original and yet they have improved features like a gunner and shields and stuff. It shows a gradual evolution of quality that I can appreciate better than just a clean start with a new design.

[The Romulan Republic]

One thing I like is that this film is basically a refutation of the old Jedi Order's despicable attitude that love, attachment, and family are bad.

Leia basically says that sending Ren away was a mistake and contributed to his fall.
Ren's feelings for his father are the main thing holding him back from fully turning to the Dark Side.
Luke's isolating himself is not portrayed positively.
Rey and Finn's affection for each other, as well as Finn's for Poe and Rey's for BB-8, saves both of them and makes them both committed to the fight.

Sure, we see the flip side of that too, with Ren idolizing his evil grandfather, Han going to his death in a failed effort to save his son, and Luke isolating himself over his failure with Ren. And their did seem to be a bit of a Dark Side anger vibe from Rey in that final duel. But their are still plenty of points that contradict the "love is bad" philosophy.

[Vympel]

The TIE/sf as it's called is a pure plot device. It's the first class of TIE to seat two people (so they can both escape), that has shields (so it's not obliterated by ground fire), has a turret (so Finn isn't useless), a hyperdrive so escape is possible and has atmosphere (so they don't need pilot suits). And it apparently ejects it's pilots separately, so they can be spread out and lose one another.

The basic TIE/fo also have shields according to the E7ICS, the TIE/sf (sf as in Special Forces) just has stronger shields. And I've never heard of any aircraft with two seats that doesn't eject its crew on two seperate seats. That's totally normal.

They were still fodder the second an X-wing shows up, the disparity between ground fire vs a TIE/X-wing aside.

They're only fodder when the X-Wing pilot is Poe Dameron, who (counting the last time I saw the film) killed 10 TIEs by himself in one continuous pass in ridiculously quick succession in the battle above Maz's castle - stopping to blast stormtroopers in between kill 9 and 10 (or 8 and 9, can't exactly remember). There was no great disparity in exchange ratio at the Thermal Oscillator attack. The argument that TIEs are 'X-Wing fodder' is old EU bullshit (derived from X-Wing games) that has no support in any of the films.

[The Romulan Republic]

One thing I wonder is how Ren will stand up to the opposition he'll likely face in the next film. A more experienced and fully trained Rey, possibly backed up by Master Luke? Plus the possibility that Finn might have Force using potential too?

Ren is going to have to make some massive improvements to hold his own, I suspect.

I would guess that Luke is going to die to Snoke, though.

Edit: Actually, I kind of hope that Luke doesn't die. And if he does, I'd like it to be something other than a one on one duel, because their shouldn't be anyone who can take him. He beat Vader. He is Vader's son. Even if he's weaker with age, he'll be more experienced, unless he's simply let his skills atrophy. And I don't want them trying to suddenly make Snoke more powerful than a proper Sith like Vader or Palpatine.

If I was going to have Luke die, their are two options.

Killed in some massive explosion/crash/etc. Some grand catastrophe, not a one-on-one duel.

Stabbed in the back by Ren while busy duelling Snoke, or vice versa. I envision it as Luke facing Snoke, holding off a barrage of lightning or telekinesis, and then getting attacked by Ren. Basically, make Luke so strong that it takes two Dark Jedi together to take him.

[Captain Seafort]

The basic TIE/fo also have shields according to the E7ICS

The basic TIE/ln had shields back in ANH.

[Crazedwraith]

Only according to a fan-theory about what the effects mean, not according to any source I recall?

--

Anyway I saw it yesterday and it was very slick and busy and there nothing major wrong with it (I have plenty of minor gripes) but nothing major right with it either. The only moment that really hit home for me was Han saying the force was real. Not even his death really had an impact for me.

Stuff I liked: Fin and Rey as the centre of attention. There must be more but I'm struggling to recall. Likewise their was a nice gender and racial mix to both the Resistance and the order.

Gripes:
-Aside from being Luke Skywalker, Mark Hamil is most known for one thing. One thing! Voice acting. What did he not do in the film?
-Aside from Chewie and the odd sullustian and mon cal. All the aliens seemed to be new and they didn't much impress.
-Ben just doesn't seem right as a name for Han's son. Ben Skywalker works. Ben Solo doesn't.
-Those lightsabres did pathetic damage when they hit. Even Obi Wan was disabled from a nick from a lightsaber. Here they cause... slight burns?
-Rey lighting up Luke's sabre and standing firm again Ren would have been more impressive if Finn the human hadn't done exactly the same thing like a minute before hand.
-Possibly because of Star Wars rep for bad dialogue and the prequels for politics, this seemed very short on dialogue and exposition.

And a bigger concern: I hope they explain exactly why Kylo Ren fell and it's good. And reborn Empire, reborn Rebel Alliance? main character's kids going dark. This exactly the shit people dissed the EU for.

[The Romulan Republic]

Well, we get some hints of why Ren might have fallen when Han and Leia talk- similarity to Vader, Snoke corrupting him, separation from his family (and possibly botched training by Luke).

There's also his obvious idolization of Vader, and his implied (during the Rey interrogation scene) disappointment with Han as a father.

[Crazedwraith]

Yeah, hints but I hope they make him more than 'turned to the dark side because daddy didn't love him enough' because well, Emo Kylo Ren is already a fandom thing, I'd rather it wasn't canon.

[Purple]

Thing is Emo Kylo does fit with what we know from previous cannon about how the dark side works. It takes teenagers who are full of power but poor on life experience and feeds their superiority complex until they are convinced everyone else is just jealous of their greatness.