Ep7 Reviews (Spoilers)

[Andy Wylde]

Well we know Kylo was a student of Luke and Snoke as to what degree, well that remains to be seen? I didn't really care for Kylo that much but I admit he did have some skills. Whether he was trained fully or not.

But one thing I thought was funny was how that ST with the melee weapon kicked Jar Jar Finns ass! That ST was more impressive than Captain Phasma. If that ST is still alive, give that man a promotion!

Also if Luke and Rey meet up with Kylo, then Luke will pull a Peter Veinkman and say:

SICK EM' REY!

[Channel72]

His hands is still tied by the fact that Ep 7 revolves around a new rebellion fighting a new Empire. He can't create a brand new conflict from scratch.

That depends. Ep 7 is frustratingly ambiguous. We don't know what the fuck happened to the New Republic after the Starkiller Base attack. It seems as if Abrams probably wanted to show us that the New Republic was basically entirely destroyed, but the fact remains that another writer/director might not see it that way. I'm hoping the next film doesn't completely ignore the New Republic the way Ep 7 did.

SICK EM' REY!

It's "go get her Ray!"

[Kojiro]

I think Ren is probably weakest in the saber area. He seems much stronger in other areas, for example we see him use TK to catch that blaster bolt, drag that officer and restrict Rey's movements. Things he could have practiced much easier than saber combat, given available opponents.

That said, in the duel with him and Finn he's clearly toying with Finn. Until Finn gets a near hit and he stops fucking around. At that point he almost immediately disarms and defeats Finn. The disarm in particular shows some degree of skill.

Whatever skills Rey has from her staff (if they're transferable) do jack shit to hold of Ren. She's pushed back and outclassed by whatever skill he has. It's only after she remembers she can push the 'Activate Force Powers' button she suddenly gets the power/skill to push him back and land three blows on him and destroy his weapon.

So calling him unskilled is unfair. It's also premature to say he's not bothered training since his purpose seems to be to track down and destroy Skywalker, which he seems to be doing in a very personal, on the ground way. From his duel with Rey he most certainly lacks the skill for that task but I'm sure the possibility of coming face to face with Skywalker has occurred to him. And we know the FO has troopers/weapons that can actually stand up to lightsaber wielders.

[Andy Wylde]

His hands is still tied by the fact that Ep 7 revolves around a new rebellion fighting a new Empire. He can't create a brand new conflict from scratch.

That depends. Ep 7 is frustratingly ambiguous. We don't know what the fuck happened to the New Republic after the Starkiller Base attack. It seems as if Abrams probably wanted to show us that the New Republic was basically entirely destroyed, but the fact remains that another writer/director might not see it that way. I'm hoping the next film doesn't completely ignore the New Republic the way Ep 7 did.

SICK EM' REY!

It's "go get her Ray!"

Ah thanks for the correction.

[Channel72]

You know I can't have random people on the Internet misquoting Ghostbusters. A line has to be drawn somewhere.

[The Romulan Republic]

Well we know Kylo was a student of Luke and Snoke as to what degree, well that remains to be seen? I didn't really care for Kylo that much but I admit he did have some skills. Whether he was trained fully or not.

But one thing I thought was funny was how that ST with the melee weapon kicked Jar Jar Finns ass! That ST was more impressive than Captain Phasma. If that ST is still alive, give that man a promotion!

Also if Luke and Rey meet up with Kylo, then Luke will pull a Peter Veinkman and say:

SICK EM' REY!

I would hardly put Finn on the level of Jar Jar.

But damn right he was more impressive than Phasma. Given how much she was hyped, she was used very little in the film, and basically existed to look cool, inexplicably show up at the end, and then be the punch line of a gag.

[Andy Wylde]

You know I can't have random people on the Internet misquoting Ghostbusters. A line has to be drawn somewhere.

Good point! lol

[Prannon]

Guys, it was a good movie. Stop overthinking it.

*Runs*

Finally, someone says what I'm thinking after reading 27 pages of this.

I'm really not getting the Kylo Ren hate. Say what you will about his skills with a lightsaber or his knowledge of the force, but the character clearly has the establishment of an arc in this film that's meant to carry over to the next.

When I saw this film, I never really got the impression that he was a Darth Vader clone. If anything, and I think someone mentioned this earlier in the thread, it was intentionally made clear in the film that he was _trying_ to ape Vader and failing horribly at it. It was a big source of weakness, in universe, of his character. We're supposed to recognize and appreciate that and look forward to his developmental arc. I can appreciate that. I'm really not sure why everyone's giving him such flak.

I see folks chatting about his skills and abilities and how it turns out to be such a let down. I don't really get that either, since we see him being a huge - if unstable - badass throughout the first half of the film. Then we are exposed to his weaknesses and doubts and the kinds of dark sided challenges that he's meant to overcome, and it becomes clear to me that he's no Vader and he's not intended to be. Further, the climactic battle between him and Rey has him significantly wounded after having murdered his father.

Again, I dunno. All the rest of the arguments circling about seem to me to be picking at details and missing the arc.

[Lord Revan]

I think with Kylo Ren it's more the case that the previews and trailers made him look like a quiet menacing badass in the vein of Darth Vader or Darth Revan (who didn't say a single word in the games until SWTOR and yes I know the spoiler but still "Darth Revan" never spoke even if the person behind the mask did) and this image was helped by Kylo Ren taking design elements from these previous sith lords.

Basically the marketing show Kylo Ren in persona he wanted others to see him instead of the actual personality behind the mask.

It's telling though that my brother who had not see alot of the previews before we went to see the film had no major issues with Kylo Ren.

[Galvatron]

Edit: Comparing it to Force Awakens, I'm honestly not sure which is the better film. I'd have to watch Force Awakens again. But I had much higher expectations, I think, for Force Awakens, so that might skew my perceptions.

Because of your avatar, I have to ask how it compared to Star Trek: Nemesis. I'm guessing that's your favorite movie ever.

You know I can't have random people on the Internet misquoting Ghostbusters. A line has to be drawn somewhere.

Are you a god?

[Paolo]

I think the problem is what the fans wanted Star Wars to be isn't what George Lucas wanted Star Wars to be. He got what he wanted in the Prequels, and it was blergh. TFA gave what the fans wanted.

I'm not certain Lucas got what he actually wanted in the prequels. He certainly wanted other directors. And the more press he does, the more he goes on about the sort of film and stories he enjoyed and wanted to emulate. It's a hot mess of cult classic, serial, arthouse, and spectacle, but it's all very heavy on drama, even melodrama. Maybe he was going for some sort of Shakespearean samurai flick with dash of Home Alone or something for the kids. Maybe there's no way to pull that off neatly. Throw in with Lucas' deficiencies as a writer and director--something he seems at least somewhat self-aware about--and I'd wager he's got some pretty deep reservations about his own work last time out.

[The Romulan Republic]

Edit: Comparing it to Force Awakens, I'm honestly not sure which is the better film. I'd have to watch Force Awakens again. But I had much higher expectations, I think, for Force Awakens, so that might skew my perceptions.

Because of your avatar, I have to ask how it compared to Star Trek: Nemesis. I'm guessing that's your favorite movie ever.

Are you trolling? What does this have to do with what I posted?

I've never even watched all of Nemesis, but the bits I've seen and everything I've seen and heard about it lead me to conclude that it is, to put it charitably, sub-par.

As far as I can recall, I picked my avatar because I wanted something Romulan (I do like the Romulans) and I liked the look of it. I wasn't even aware it had anything to do with Nemesis specifically.

[The Romulan Republic]

One thing I'm curious about:

When the Starkiller weapon blows up all those Republic worlds, was one of the worlds in question Coruscant? Because their was what looked like a major city in their, and they talked about destroying the Senate...

Its just, I feel like if they blew up Coruscant, that shouldn't have been ambiguous and deserved more attention in the film.

Edit: Not to mention that blowing up Coruscant would probably surpass, in one shot, the death toll of all previous events in the films combined.

[Ace Pace]

One thing I'm curious about:

When the Starkiller weapon blows up all those Republic worlds, was one of the worlds in question Coruscant? Because their was what looked like a major city in their, and they talked about destroying the Senate...

Its just, I feel like if they blew up Coruscant, that shouldn't have been ambiguous and deserved more attention in the film.

Edit: Not to mention that blowing up Coruscant would probably surpass, in one shot, the death toll of all previous events in the films combined.

Both the novelization and the Visual dictionary say it's some other planet.

[Mange]

I don't think Ford left them much choice. He wanted to be out of the franchise since the OT.
But yeah, would've been nice to see the big three together again.

Actually, Han didn't die in Arndt's draft, but reunited with Leia at the end of the movie. Abrams changed that (the reason being similar to why Obi-Wan was killed off in ANH).

[The Romulan Republic]

One thing I'm curious about:

When the Starkiller weapon blows up all those Republic worlds, was one of the worlds in question Coruscant? Because their was what looked like a major city in their, and they talked about destroying the Senate...

Its just, I feel like if they blew up Coruscant, that shouldn't have been ambiguous and deserved more attention in the film.

Edit: Not to mention that blowing up Coruscant would probably surpass, in one shot, the death toll of all previous events in the films combined.

Both the novelization and the Visual dictionary say it's some other planet.

Good to know.

I hope Coruscant will appear again. I was afraid they'd wiped it out as a footnote as some sort of ill-conceived attempt to piss on the Prequels.

Another interesting thing: Its rather ironic that in this movie, the heroes blow up a planet. Now, no one in their right mind would question weather the First Order's planet killer is a legitimate military target, but still, its kind of funny, in a dark way.

Another planet-destruction-related question: if the Star Killer drains the star for fuel until it goes dark, does it eventually drain the star completely? And if so, where does it get the power for future shots from? Surely it can't draw fuel across interstellar distances?

I'd be interested, as well, in doing a comparison of a Death Star vs. the Star Killer. I'd say it is to a Death Star what an ICBM silo is to an aircraft carrier, to use a modern analogy. Which kind of fits with the historical analogies of Star Wars. The Empire was influenced by the Nazis, and OT combat by World War II combat. Whereas, while their's still some of that in The Force Awakens, there's a Cold War element as well, with the NR backing the Resistance as a proxy against the First Order.

[The Romulan Republic]

I don't think Ford left them much choice. He wanted to be out of the franchise since the OT.
But yeah, would've been nice to see the big three together again.

Actually, Han didn't die in Arndt's draft, but reunited with Leia at the end of the movie. Abrams changed that (the reason being similar to why Obi-Wan was killed off in ANH).

Well, screw Abrams then.

But really, given Ford's age, it might have made sense to retire Han. But then I wish they'd brought Luke in sooner somehow.

[Mange]

I don't think Ford left them much choice. He wanted to be out of the franchise since the OT.
But yeah, would've been nice to see the big three together again.

Actually, Han didn't die in Arndt's draft, but reunited with Leia at the end of the movie. Abrams changed that (the reason being similar to why Obi-Wan was killed off in ANH).

Well, screw Abrams then.

But really, given Ford's age, it might have made sense to retire Han. But then I wish they'd brought Luke in sooner somehow.

Sorry, I forgot to include the source: Entertainment Weekly

Kasdan even thinks that Ford might have rethought about killing off Solo,

[K. A. Pital]

I'm really not getting the Kylo Ren hate. Say what you will about his skills with a lightsaber or his knowledge of the force, but the character clearly has the establishment of an arc in this film that's meant to carry over to the next

1. He is a Vader wannabe. The actor even tries imitating Hayden Christensen's RotS "I am going evil!" mimic and gestures. But fails, miserably.
2. He is fucking ugly when he takes off the mask. Maul, Dooku and Vader had style. Fugly /= style.
3. His boss is CGI Gollum. Screw Gollum.

Need more reasons? His lightsaber non-skills are not even relevant. He could be an uber-user of the Force, it matters little due to the above.

I hope they rehabilitate him in the next film. Hope he kills "Snoke" and becomes the main villain. Because so far he is a joke.

[Thanas]

I don't think Ford left them much choice. He wanted to be out of the franchise since the OT.
But yeah, would've been nice to see the big three together again.

Actually, Han didn't die in Arndt's draft, but reunited with Leia at the end of the movie. Abrams changed that (the reason being similar to why Obi-Wan was killed off in ANH).

Oh god can Abrams just shove off already? For me the big three are the reasons I watch the movies.

[ray245]

His hands is still tied by the fact that Ep 7 revolves around a new rebellion fighting a new Empire. He can't create a brand new conflict from scratch.

That depends. Ep 7 is frustratingly ambiguous. We don't know what the fuck happened to the New Republic after the Starkiller Base attack. It seems as if Abrams probably wanted to show us that the New Republic was basically entirely destroyed, but the fact remains that another writer/director might not see it that way. I'm hoping the next film doesn't completely ignore the New Republic the way Ep 7 did.

It is STILL a movie about plucky underdogs flying X-Wings going up against an Empire with Stardestroyers. JJ screwed this up because he wanted to recreate Ep 4, forcing any director after him to do something similar to Ep 5.

Rian Johnson cannot create a new antagonist that isn't remotely similar to the Empire, he is forced to use the New Order in his stories. There a very limited room to maneuver around in terms of storytelling. In my opinion, JJ have ruined the overarching story for the sequel trilogy because it will be the same old and boring conflict repeated on screen.

Disney is basically remaking Ep 4-6 without actually doing it.

[Mad]

I should actually throw my review into this thread.

I liked it.

Its deficiencies are basically all things that already happened in the OT: Starkiller Base wasn't any lamer than the DS2; wonky system relationships were in ESB (and Abram's Star Trek, which was practically a Star Wars movie in a Star Trek skin); unclear timing between events happened; Luke was already a Gary Stu.

I liked Kylo Ren's tantrums.

Rey being a Mary Sue didn't bother me any more than Luke did in the OT. Which is to say, it did bother me a little. But so did Luke. TFA, like the OT, was entertaining enough that I could roll with it.

The music was disappointing in that I couldn't really remember any of the new stuff even coming right out of the theater. (Sort of like Attack of the Clones in that regard, I suppose.)

The shot tracking both Finn on the ground and Poe's X-wing in the air at the same time was really nice, and something we haven't seen in Star Wars before.

The humor was well done, and didn't rely on the silliness we saw with some of the PT's attempts at humor.

[Knife]

Finally watched it, I liked it but it is not without it's faults.

On the plus side, the characters meshed well, the humor was natural and funny. It was 'Starwarsie' and I don't think JJ did as bad as ray245 thinks. No micro fighters, that I hated in the prequels, beautiful scenery and planets. I could relate to Rey, she was both strong but vulnerable. A sympathetic character that you wanted to root for. Finn was a good companion, someone who questioned himself and his place in the galaxy but became a better person just by being with Rey. Poe seems interesting but really just saw 'hey I'm the greatest....in everything' from him. I think they made great use of Han, Leia, and Chewie. Han and Chewie being great together as always, loved the bickering between the two. The story was very 'A New Hopish' but that made it very 'Starwarsie'.

On the negative side, and going chronologically, a map to Luke Skywalker? WTH? A little ham fisted with the quest for the good guys JJ. Perhaps if the First Order was hunting Luke and the Republic put effort into finding him and was sending that info to Leia or something but a straight up secret map to find Luke Skywalker? Blah.

I also think Han and Chewie just appearing like that and after the Falcon seemed really forced. I get that Abrams was probably worried they were too 'A New Hopeie' and didn't go the route of Han being a real 'father figure' in Rey's life the whole time but I think that would have made it a bit natural in the movie. Something akin to after Rey meets and rescues Finn, her taking her to an old man who looked after her when she was younger, she thinks he may still have a ship, ala Han. That would cement the idea later, when Ren was mind raping her, that she thought of Solo as a father. Anyway, as they did it just felt forced.

The resistance. I just don't get it. Lots of pages on this thread alone on this issue, and I get it that it can be filled in next movie, but I just don't understand a galaxy of the Republic with a First Order somewhere with a secrete Republic organized resistance.

Then the Starkiller base. Everything from the reuse of a Deathstar like Mcguffin, to the sun eating bit that is very minimalist since IIRC in the ESB novelization talking about the Stardestroyer jumping to hyperspace using more energy than a star in it's lifetime or something akin to that. To even the weapon that streaked across space at amazing speeds to kill of planets in another system. While we never actually saw the Deathstar jump to hyperspace, at least the dialogue let you know it moved.

I'm neutral on how the Force was depicted. Ren was supposedly trained by Skywalker so should have solid basics down, then turned on the new Jedi and was trained by this Snoke guy (who ever the hell he is and how he knows force stuff... I do like the Plagius idea). I get that lightsaber training wouldn't be as big a deal as in other movies. No Jedi left, no need. Ren's lightsaber is more a terror weapon. I also get that thematically that the broad sword is supposed to be an inelegant weapon, hack and slash, to go along with the childish nature of Ren in the movie (yes yes, I know braoad swords weren't so no hate there). I get that Ren was supposed to be a spoiled little brad, more Anakin than Vader so that actually made sense to me, his character should grow and progress in the coming films, though I think his chance at redemption is now gone. My big complaint about the Jedi/Sith in this movie is the very interesting thing about them happened between ROTJ and TFA and we don't see but a very limited very short clip of the Knights of Ren just standing there while being told Ren betrayed and turned on the Jedi. This is a major event that we just don't get to see or know much about.

There were some good actors in it that were way underused. When Max von Sydow was in the first little bit, I was sitting there thinking really hard on who he was supposed to be, but they never really told you. He seemed to know Princess Leia really well since he insisted on calling her Princess and not General. I was thinking it was supposed to be an OT character all grown up but for the life of me I can't think of who. Anyway, he was way underused as an actor and character. Gwendoline Christie was way way way underused. We can only hope that Captain Phasma is actually used in the later films. I mean for christs sake those two characters could have been CGI trees and still fulfilled their purpose in the film.

[Me2005]

He seemed somewhat poor with a sabre (yes, he was wounded, but it takes him a while to take down Finn despite Finn apparently only handling a sabre once before). However, he seems to have a fair amount of power in in the Force (taking knowledge from someone's mind with the Force, immobilizing people, and freezing a blaster bolt).

I'd grant that Fin probably had some kind of melee training from his stormtrooper days (based on the melee weapon the stormtrooper facing him whips out and that he is willing to even try the lightsaber); except that none of his other stormtrooper training seems to have done anything for him elsewhere in the movie.

[Knife]

He seemed somewhat poor with a sabre (yes, he was wounded, but it takes him a while to take down Finn despite Finn apparently only handling a sabre once before). However, he seems to have a fair amount of power in in the Force (taking knowledge from someone's mind with the Force, immobilizing people, and freezing a blaster bolt).

I'd grant that Fin probably had some kind of melee training from his stormtrooper days (based on the melee weapon the stormtrooper facing him whips out and that he is willing to even try the lightsaber); except that none of his other stormtrooper training seems to have done anything for him elsewhere in the movie.

My grip with Finn is that he started out as a Stormtrooper in an assault squad that actually had moral problems with his orders but then turns out to be a sanitation specialist at the base. Makes no sense.