Ep7 Reviews (Spoilers)

[Galvatron]

JJ says the first cut of the movie was 2h40m. I'd like to see that.

[Ace Pace]

JJ says the first cut of the movie was 2h40m. I'd like to see that.

More of this "Who shot first? Han, I'm insulted you asked" crap.

Atleast there was some other good nuggets in that interview.

[Elfdart]

I saw the movie Monday and it looks like Disney has done for Star Wars what they did for Monday Night Football: turned something I never missed the chance to watch into something I'd rather avoid watching.

Where should I begin?

Disney hasn't done a good -let alone great- science fiction movie since 20,000 Leagues Under The Sea with James Mason and Kirk Douglass. The last sixty years have seen the Mouse releasing sci-fi movies ranging from OK (John Carter) to mediocre (The Cat From Outer Space) to bad (Tron) to awful (Unidentified Flying Oddball -I'll never forgive my aunt for dropping me off at a theater without any working pinball, air hockey, fooseball or video games to watch this movie. The best scene is when the astronaut hands a copy of Playboy to one of King Arthur's servants. ). Where would I put The Force Awakens? Let's just say I'm shocked J.J. Abrams didn't hire Dennis Dugan for a major role.

Now one solution to their constant bed-shitting when it comes to sci-fi would have been to make better movies or to keep cranking out the usual fare, but bringing in line producers who run tight ships (like Howard Kazanjian or Rick McCallum or any of Ridley Scott's producers), keep costs under control and at least make sure the film's budget isn't the main story in reviews, which doomed the thoroughly watchable John Carter. Instead, Disney shelled out close to $5 billion just to slap George Lucas' name, brand and his intellectual properties all over Disney's bland, hackneyed, unoriginal science fiction.

Actually, TFA isn't quite as bad as Unidentified Flying Oddball or the Holiday Special or Catwoman or Mommie Dearest or Showgirls -It's worse: lazy, uninspired, derivative and mediocre to the core. If it had simply been a bad movie it would've been much more interesting. This movie reminds me of a terminally mediocre film where Colin Firth isn't the hapless guy in an insipid chick movie. Instead, he's a roman centurion or something and he's hiding the future King Arthur from barbarians, and an Indian supermodel who is a thousand times too pretty to be the gladiator she plays...

And the whole movie is put together like a grocery list of cliches from other middling films. There's nothing wrong with the acting, there are few clunkers in the script, the cinematography is OK. None of the elements are truly bad per se, but the whole thing, finally assembled is average to the point of being truly offensive to me.

But J.J. Abrams is mediocrity incarnate, so the story, the characters and the plot are like the product of Star Wars Mad Libs. The only thought going into the making of this film was to make absolutely sure to massage the wounded feelings of a generation of Nerd Ragers and to avoid doing anything that might upset internet neckbeards.

That explains the constant bullshit about using film instead of HD digital and in the words of Mark Hamill (doing a dead-on impression of Casey Kasem) "reeeeeal sets... practical effects". Remember that shitty muppet carrying the baby dinosaurs in a cage on its back -the one the fans at Comic Con practically came in their pants over? It got even less time onscreen than Max Von Sydow! Why, exactly, did they bother with the great Swedish actor in this movie? It's as though they had hired William Holden to play the captain of Princess Leia's blockade runner in ANH, given the amount of screen time both actors got.

If only, instead of worrying about digital vs film/ CGI vs muppets & matte lines, they had been concerned with having reeeeeal artists with reeeeeal vision, reeeeeal creativity...

And a reeeeal (or should I say "practical"?) set of balls. This movie, with its retreaded plot and scenes and glorified cameos from old hands is cinematic Martyball. In other words, it's a product of hacks working in fear of the studio, the critics and the louder members of the audience.

For me, the worst part of the movie had to be the villains. Kylo Ren & Co are the weakest, lamest, most non-threatening bad guys this side of Team Rocket (Meowth included) or Pinky from Black Belt Jones:

[Lord Revan]

Would we rather get an extended edition or just bonus content with deleted scenes a la carte?

for me it depends on how well they would be able to reintegrate the removed scenes into the pre-existing material, adding them would kill the pacing of the film I'd rather have the deleted scenes seperate.

[Vympel]

The only thought going into the making of this film was to make absolutely sure to massage the wounded feelings of a generation of Nerd Ragers and to avoid doing anything that might upset internet neckbeards.

That explains the constant bullshit about using film instead of HD digital and in the words of Mark Hamill (doing a dead-on impression of Casey Kasem) "reeeeeal sets... practical effects". Remember that shitty muppet carrying the baby dinosaurs in a cage on its back -the one the fans at Comic Con practically came in their pants over? It got even less time onscreen than Max Von Sydow!

IIRC, a lot of the things people would think are CGI in the prequels are actually real models or real sets. However, that confusion shouldn't really be a complement - that things in the prequels (especially AotC and RotS, less so in TPM) look computer generated even when they're real is not a good thing.

There's also the question of excess - the chief example being the Clonetroopers. Their disembodied Temura Morrison heads floating above CGI-over-blue-suit bodies in RotS can look profoundly unsettling.

[Channel72]

I don't know if it's a combination of the 35mm along with the practical sets, but whatever it is, the way TFA is constructed gives a profound psychological sense of places and things that actually exist - and by extension, places and things that I could, in theory, interact with and be a part of, unlike the Prequels which very much literally make my brain feel as though I'm watching someone play a video game.

Also, (and this may be something personal and idiosyncratic that nobody else is going to relate to), CGI seems to also have a different effect in terms of long-term memory recall than practical sets/locations. When I recall locations from the OT (Endor, Hoth, etc.) as well as TFA, my brain conjures up images of real places - no different from if I had recalled an actual place on Earth that I've visited. But when I try to recall images from say, the Battle of Geonosis, or whatever, it's literally no different than recalling images from some video game I saw - it doesn't feel as if it was ever a real, three-dimensional place, and thus it's sort of easily forgettable.

[Channel72]

I think also that this contributed a lot to the original "mystique" of Star Wars: as has been said many times in this thread and elsewhere, a lot of the mystique of the OT was in what wasn't shown onscreen - the things offscreen that our imaginations were left to fill in, like where all those crazy aliens in the Cantina come from. With practical sets and effects, there is the illusion that if we were dropped into these scenes, we could walk to the left, or the right, and we'd discover more real places and things that were simply offscreen. Drop us into a random corridor on the Hoth base, and if we walk down a doorway or pathway that wasn't followed by the script, we'd find other real things going on... real people reacting to the larger events taking place. But I just don't get that same feeling with the Prequels. Drop me on Geonosis or Utapau or something, and I sort of just feel like I'm in a videogame where nothing is real, and nothing matters, and I don't really care what's down the hall.

[Andy Wylde]

I saw the movie Monday and it looks like Disney has done for Star Wars what they did for Monday Night Football: turned something I never missed the chance to watch into something I'd rather avoid watching.

Where should I begin?

Disney hasn't done a good -let alone great- science fiction movie since 20,000 Leagues Under The Sea with James Mason and Kirk Douglass. The last sixty years have seen the Mouse releasing sci-fi movies ranging from OK (John Carter) to mediocre (The Cat From Outer Space) to bad (Tron) to awful (Unidentified Flying Oddball -I'll never forgive my aunt for dropping me off at a theater without any working pinball, air hockey, fooseball or video games to watch this movie. The best scene is when the astronaut hands a copy of Playboy to one of King Arthur's servants. ). Where would I put The Force Awakens? Let's just say I'm shocked J.J. Abrams didn't hire Dennis Dugan for a major role.

Now one solution to their constant bed-shitting when it comes to sci-fi would have been to make better movies or to keep cranking out the usual fare, but bringing in line producers who run tight ships (like Howard Kazanjian or Rick McCallum or any of Ridley Scott's producers), keep costs under control and at least make sure the film's budget isn't the main story in reviews, which doomed the thoroughly watchable John Carter. Instead, Disney shelled out close to $5 billion just to slap George Lucas' name, brand and his intellectual properties all over Disney's bland, hackneyed, unoriginal science fiction.

Actually, TFA isn't quite as bad as Unidentified Flying Oddball or the Holiday Special or Catwoman or Mommie Dearest or Showgirls -It's worse: lazy, uninspired, derivative and mediocre to the core. If it had simply been a bad movie it would've been much more interesting. This movie reminds me of a terminally mediocre film where Colin Firth isn't the hapless guy in an insipid chick movie. Instead, he's a roman centurion or something and he's hiding the future King Arthur from barbarians, and an Indian supermodel who is a thousand times too pretty to be the gladiator she plays...

And the whole movie is put together like a grocery list of cliches from other middling films. There's nothing wrong with the acting, there are few clunkers in the script, the cinematography is OK. None of the elements are truly bad per se, but the whole thing, finally assembled is average to the point of being truly offensive to me.

But J.J. Abrams is mediocrity incarnate, so the story, the characters and the plot are like the product of Star Wars Mad Libs. The only thought going into the making of this film was to make absolutely sure to massage the wounded feelings of a generation of Nerd Ragers and to avoid doing anything that might upset internet neckbeards.

That explains the constant bullshit about using film instead of HD digital and in the words of Mark Hamill (doing a dead-on impression of Casey Kasem) "reeeeeal sets... practical effects". Remember that shitty muppet carrying the baby dinosaurs in a cage on its back -the one the fans at Comic Con practically came in their pants over? It got even less time onscreen than Max Von Sydow! Why, exactly, did they bother with the great Swedish actor in this movie? It's as though they had hired William Holden to play the captain of Princess Leia's blockade runner in ANH, given the amount of screen time both actors got.

If only, instead of worrying about digital vs film/ CGI vs muppets & matte lines, they had been concerned with having reeeeeal artists with reeeeeal vision, reeeeeal creativity...

And a reeeeal (or should I say "practical"?) set of balls. This movie, with its retreaded plot and scenes and glorified cameos from old hands is cinematic Martyball. In other words, it's a product of hacks working in fear of the studio, the critics and the louder members of the audience.

For me, the worst part of the movie had to be the villains. Kylo Ren & Co are the weakest, lamest, most non-threatening bad guys this side of Team Rocket (Meowth included) or Pinky from Black Belt Jones:

Awesome write up! I pretty much agree. It was truly spot on.

[cmdrjones]

then if you caught it, and knew about it, then you can answer the last question: Why was is considered ok at one point, then changed? Does that underlying philosophy that you are describing that "revenge" is said to be incompatible with NOT fail miserably in the ROTJ scene referenced?

What the hell are you even talking about? Who gives a fuck? This is literally the only time I've heard what I assume is a Star Wars fan attempt to argue that hate and aggression are a bad thing in Jedi philosophy is some sort of 'ROTJ insertion'. If you really think that its quite apparent you've never seen - or simply didn't pay attention - during TESB, and neither did the fucking moron in the article you linked:

YODA
Run! Yes. A Jedi's strength
flows from the Force. But beware
of the dark side. Anger... fear...
aggression. The dark side of
the Force are they.
Easily they flow, quick to join
you in a fight. If once you
start down the dark path, forever
will it dominate your destiny,
consume you it will, as it did
Obi-Wan's apprentice.

LUKE
Vader. Is the dark side stronger?

YODA
No... no... no. Quicker, easier,
more seductive.

LUKE
But how am I to know the good side
from the bad?

YODA
You will know. When you are calm,
at peace. Passive. A Jedi uses
the Force for knowledge and
defense, never for attack.

...

VADER
Obi-Wan has taught you well. You
have controlled your fear... now
release your anger.

Luke is more cautious, controlling his anger. He begins to retreat as
Vader goads him on. As Luke takes a defensive position, he realizes he
has been foolhardy. A quick sword exchange and Luke forces Vader back.
Another exchange and Vader retreats. Luke presses forward.

VADER
Only your hatred can destroy me.

So you admit you're still confused, but you proclaim the writer of the article to be a moron... well, if you're so well versed in it, you are free to follow the link to his site and show him how stupid he is.. (pro tip: ask yourself why if anger (and ONLY anger) can destroy vader, then why would Yoda warn against it so highly? Could it be possible that Vader is lying? Or is it possible that the situation itself is implausible at best?

[cmdrjones]

Yes. I practice armed Western Renaissance martial arts, and have regularly sparred with women, and know more than a few who are at the top of their game and can not only kick my ass but those of men who are far better at it than I am.

I have taught martial arts before to young teens, mostly girls. I also sparred with adult females in contact martial arts, and fought other female soldiers. None were ever a serious threat. Would you happen to be less than 5'4" tall and weigh less than 130 lbs by some chance? Or have you located some long lost tribe of amazons?

I'm 6'0" and 200 pounds if you must know, and being armed, which Rey was, makes all the difference. Could I wreck most of the women I know in hand to hand unarmed? Probably, but I've never tried. Swords make all the difference in the world; weight and reach start mattering a lot less than skill once you introduce weapons. Now hand one of them a weapon and make me try to take her unarmed and you have something more like the scenario in the movie. Is it possible to do? Yes, but it's extremely difficult even for a trained practitioner, and a couple of junkyard thugs probably don't know how.

i think we'll have to admit mutual ignorance then, i don't usually do the "armed fighting" (though I am trained in batons and such for security work) thing, so when I have faced women with batons or staves they were pretty much untrained and I just took them away from them. While I am 5'11 and 205 and I can tell you that I haven't faced a woman in hand to hand combat that was a serious threat; if you say that being armed makes all the difference, I'll have to take you at your word.
In addition though, Rey did face two larger men in much closer quarters than i would like to have been in were I in her position. I would think that getting a hand on her would pretty much spell her doom staff or no, unless we can assume her latent force powers helped her

[Channel72]

In addition though, Rey did face two larger men in much closer quarters than i would like to have been in were I in her position. I would think that getting a hand on her would pretty much spell her doom staff or no, unless we can assume her latent force powers helped her

Meh... all kinds of rationalizations are possible. Were these two attackers even human? Maybe they were of some species that has less upper body strength than the average adult human male. Maybe the gravity on Jakku is lower, so comparative upper body strength doesn't mean as much... blah blah, etc. In other words, who cares? It's not really that unbelievable. Plus you'd think Rey would be pretty handy with her staff after spending so much time fighting to stay alive on Jakku. Everybody is having so much trouble believing that Rey can do anything, meanwhile Luke Skywalker managed to beat Darth fucking Vader in ROTJ somehow, with only a few days of training from Yoda, where he basically learned how to stack rocks with his mind. (We never even saw Yoda teach him lightsaber combat!)

[Vendetta]

I think you're missing the important point which is that Rey is a gurl and therefore everything is ruined forever if she's even slightly competent. The internet fucking hates when girls get the cool stuff.

[cmdrjones]

In addition though, Rey did face two larger men in much closer quarters than i would like to have been in were I in her position. I would think that getting a hand on her would pretty much spell her doom staff or no, unless we can assume her latent force powers helped her

Meh... all kinds of rationalizations are possible. Were these two attackers even human? Maybe they were of some species that has less upper body strength than the average adult human male. Maybe the gravity on Jakku is lower, so comparative upper body strength doesn't mean as much... blah blah, etc. In other words, who cares? It's not really that unbelievable. Plus you'd think Rey would be pretty handy with her staff after spending so much time fighting to stay alive on Jakku. Everybody is having so much trouble believing that Rey can do anything, meanwhile Luke Skywalker managed to beat Darth fucking Vader in ROTJ somehow, with only a few days of training from Yoda, where he basically learned how to stack rocks with his mind. (We never even saw Yoda teach him lightsaber combat!)

Im not sure how much time he spent on Dagobah, but he also spent some time with Ben Kenobi as well. Luke also spent an indeterminate amount of time honing his skills in between ESB and ROTJ, when he went up against Vader after his two 3 day Jedi seminars he got his ass handed to him. Rey had exactly zero training with any Jedi, master or otherwise.... the main complaints in the review I linked to objected not ONLY to her defeat of Kylo Ren specifically, but her ability to do anything rather easily, some of them on the first try. She's a Mary sue of all Mary sues. I don't even mind her BEING a mary sue, IF they explain it in the narrative... THAT is the point. I think her being awesome a everything detracts from the other characters being there in the first place, but it's a route the writer and director are free to take...Superman is a Mary sue, but he also doesn't usually have an ensemble cast... and for good reason... HE's SUPERMAN!
AS for Rey's fight with the two thugs, we can assume lots of things, but my point is: we shouldn't have to if the writer and director had done their fucking jobs.

[Grumman]

I think you're missing the important point which is that Rey is a gurl and therefore everything is ruined forever if she's even slightly competent. The internet fucking hates when girls get the cool stuff.

Winning a fight outnumbered 2 to 3 is not incompetence. You don't even need to have Finn lay a hand on them - having Rey take advantage of the distraction provided by Finn's good deed and appreciating that it made the fight easier would still make both her and Finn stronger characters.

And I'm perfectly happy to have Rey as the Jack-of-all-Trades, Master-of-All character - just not yet. I want her to be all-round awesome as Rey the Jedi Knight, but Rey the scavenger needs to have room to grow.

[Vendetta]

AS for Rey's fight with the two thugs, we can assume lots of things, but my point is: we shouldn't have to if the writer and director had done their fucking jobs.

No, you don't have to assume anything. Because this is the scene that is there to teach you a thing, that thing being "Rey can fight". No assumptions, the film is teaching you things about its characters by showing them doing things (imagine that!).

You don't appear to want to get that, but I suspect it's because you can't cope with a female action hero because it makes your dick feel small.

[Haminal10]

A few things that I noticed on my second viewing:

1) Starkiller base does indeed need to consume an entire star to fire it's main weapon. "As long as there is light, then there is a chance."
2) Because of # 1, Starkiller base must be mobile and have hyperspace capabilies, as they would have needed another star for the second shot at the rebel base.
3) When we see the Republic senate world from orbit, there are a number of large ships in orbit. These ships all get vaporized when the planet explodes. If this world was where the main Republic fleet was stationed, then the First Order did strike a major blow.
4) The tie fighters' "lock on" noise is the same one that we heard in Vader's tie fighter in ANH.

[Vympel]

So you admit you're still confused, but you proclaim the writer of the article to be a moron...

My 'confusion' stems from the spectacle of watching a supposed Star Wars fan quote the moronic arguments of a moron with approval in a manner that repudiates a central tenet of the movies. The writer of the article is a moron, and so are you for approving of his nonsense.

well, if you're so well versed in it, you are free to follow the link to his site and show him how stupid he is..

Why, because you're incapable of defending that idiocy yourself? Its not my job to go travelling around the internet telling every jackass he's a jackass. You brought the swill into the forum.

(pro tip: ask yourself why if anger (and ONLY anger) can destroy vader, then why would Yoda warn against it so highly? Could it be possible that Vader is lying? Or is it possible that the situation itself is implausible at best?

Jesus Christ, you are fucking obtuse, aren't you? Vader is saying that because he is - duh - trying to seduce Luke over the dark side of the Force by making him give in to his hatred. Its got nothing to do with whether Vader is lying or not. You've missed the point completely.

[Batman]

Get lost. Next you'll try to tell me Luke NOT giving in to his anger was what brought Anakin back around to the Light Side.

[Patroklos]

You don't appear to want to get that, but I suspect it's because you can't cope with a female action hero because it makes your dick feel small.

Or you can't make a realistic critique of the character because your dick is so hard. So how easy that is?

[Rogue 9]

I have taught martial arts before to young teens, mostly girls. I also sparred with adult females in contact martial arts, and fought other female soldiers. None were ever a serious threat. Would you happen to be less than 5'4" tall and weigh less than 130 lbs by some chance? Or have you located some long lost tribe of amazons?

I'm 6'0" and 200 pounds if you must know, and being armed, which Rey was, makes all the difference. Could I wreck most of the women I know in hand to hand unarmed? Probably, but I've never tried. Swords make all the difference in the world; weight and reach start mattering a lot less than skill once you introduce weapons. Now hand one of them a weapon and make me try to take her unarmed and you have something more like the scenario in the movie. Is it possible to do? Yes, but it's extremely difficult even for a trained practitioner, and a couple of junkyard thugs probably don't know how.

i think we'll have to admit mutual ignorance then, i don't usually do the "armed fighting" (though I am trained in batons and such for security work) thing, so when I have faced women with batons or staves they were pretty much untrained and I just took them away from them. While I am 5'11 and 205 and I can tell you that I haven't faced a woman in hand to hand combat that was a serious threat; if you say that being armed makes all the difference, I'll have to take you at your word.
In addition though, Rey did face two larger men in much closer quarters than i would like to have been in were I in her position. I would think that getting a hand on her would pretty much spell her doom staff or no, unless we can assume her latent force powers helped her

Assuming her latent Force powers helped her seems pretty safe, since that sort of thing happens with some regularity (notably with Anakin). Also, Bruce Lee was 5'7" and 128 pounds, about the size of the average American woman. Just something to think about.

[Lord Revan]

there's 2 other things we should consider first Rey's staff seems to be made of metal so it could be quite heavy, second the thugs could have under estimated how though the fight would, after all the arguments here seem come with assumption that thugs knew exactly how tough the fight would be, but if they were expecting a cake walk only to get into a reasonbly tough fight they might been confused enough for Rey to get enough hits in to take them out before they knew better.

[Galvatron]

Is there some reason why Rey can't have the same "Jedi reflexes" that Qui-Gon said that untrained Anakin had as an eleven-year old pod racer?

[Grumman]

Is there some reason why Rey can't have the same "Jedi reflexes" that Qui-Gon said that untrained Anakin had as an eleven-year old pod racer?

Yes: because The Phantom Menace's handling of Anakin Skywalker was one of the worst parts of a bad movie. The Phantom Menace might have done it first, but The Phantom Menace was also shit, and should not be emulated.

[Galvatron]

I'm not saying it should be emulated, but shirley it set a canon precedent.

[Vendetta]

Or that Rey is a tough girl who's grown up in a harsh environment and is capable of defending herself. Like what we see her do.

But (invariably male) internet pisswads don't want to accept that girls can be the tough one, so they mewl and piss that it's "unrealistic".