Ep7 Reviews (Spoilers)

[The Original Nex]

Abrams isn't good at portraying visual scale of heavenly bodies from the ground. He did the same thing (but worse IMO) in Star Trek with Spock viewing the implosion of Vulcan from that ice planet. It doesn't make any sense, and the visibility of the StarKiller attack was probably my biggest VFX problem with the TFA.

[Galvatron]

That's why I'm in favor of the big public-announcement-hologram-in-the-sky-broadcast theory. It's all I have short of placing Maz Kanata's planet in the Hosnian system.

[Patroklos]

So how does that work? Every planet, even backwoods crapholes with nothing but a single bar, have planet wide holoprojectors to display random things in the atmosphere? Did the First Order go around and clandestinely install these on every planet in the galaxy? If not Han had only been on Maz's planet for a few hours, why would they have installed one there instead of millions of far more populous planets?

[Nephtys]

Are people really complaining about the visual used to express the destructiveness of Starkiller Base?

Seriously. It's an FTL super-beam that works by techno-magic. Given that it's an FTL ray, in a universe that's only known FTL is an alternate dimension, it clearly is so exotic that properties such as 'real time viewing of light from light years away' are entirely possible.

I took it as the beam spread shotgunned multiple star systems, not multiple planets in one star system.

The visual did it's job. You know what's happening. A super beam split and blew up a lot of planets from across the galaxy. We do NOT need an explanation for this. Do you really want a news zeppelin to fly by and describe how this new weapon uses liquified midichlorians to blow up worlds, then show you a diagram?

[Galvatron]

So how does that work? Every planet, even backwoods crapholes with nothing but a single bar, have planet wide holoprojectors to display random things in the atmosphere? Did the First Order go around and clandestinely install these on every planet in the galaxy? If not Han had only been on Maz's planet for a few hours, why would they have installed one there instead of millions of far more populous planets?

If it needs a backstory, I'd say they were installed over the millennia by the Old Republic in virtually every known settlement to broadcast galactic news via the holonet (like the canon HoloNet News). Then, during the days of the Empire, they were used to broadcast propaganda and major events like the destruction of Alderaan. Now the First Order is using them to broadcast the destruction of the Hosnian system.

Are people really complaining about the visual used to express the destructiveness of Starkiller Base?

Look who you're asking.

[Patroklos]

If it needs a backstory, I'd say they were installed over the millennia by the Old Republic in virtually every known settlement to broadcast galactic news via the holonet (like the canon HoloNet News). Then, during the days of the Empire, they were used to broadcast propaganda and major events like the destruction of Alderaan. Now the First Order is using them to broadcast the destruction of the Hosnian system.

That is still grossly unsatisfying to me, but see how easy that was? This is how lazy JJ is. But lets be honest, JJ didn't provide a backstory because he is totally fine with Maz's planet being in the same system. The scene is lifted wholesale from ST09.

Its funny to me to see apologists trip over themselves to explain this away. The movie is the highest cannon. They are in the same system. People are just going to have to deal with that and with the director who gave it to them. The movie just isn't as good as it could have been. It happens. A lot unfortunately. Does that make it a bad movie? No. Its the sum of its parts, some of those parts are stupid.

[Gaidin]

Are people really complaining about the visual used to express the destructiveness of Starkiller Base?

Look who you're asking.

Dude, you were once at one point willing to accept they were on a moon of Hosnian Prime and suspend your disbelief to the point that their orbit did not only get screwed up, but they did not get blown way the fuck off course. Also they did not get a outrageously huge debris shower.

Canon says it's a hyper lightspeed laser explosion, we might have an argument it's slightly(ready:way) too big for drama's sake.

Now you want to randomly put god damn holo net screen in the sky randomly. Yes that word is in there twice on purpose.

Occam's razor all this for me please.

[Galvatron]

I want either a retcon that gives me my damn hologram or one that moves Takodana to the Hosnian system. As for why it didn't suffer any ill effects from the destruction of Hosnian Prime, like the Endor holocaust, I'm willing to accept that it just didn't.

[Gaidin]

I want either a retcon that gives me my damn hologram or one that moves Takodana to the Hosnian system. As for why it didn't suffer any ill effects from the destruction of Hosnian Prime, like the Endor holocaust, I'm willing to accept that it just didn't.

Just like every other god damn movie in the series right? So what? We actually have a weapon whose visuals are canonically described to go FTL. It's not really something to bitch about without looking like you have egg on your face. Like I said, about all they did was make the visual too big for drama's sake. Which, again, is not something Star Wars is unknown for.

[Galvatron]

I concede everything you're saying, but I'm still expecting an EU retcon whether you feel one is necessary or not.

[Channel72]

Realistically, 99% of the audience has no understanding of astronomical scale, and won't even question that visual. Nobody I saw the movie with even thought twice about it. I'm the only one who was momentarily confused by the visual, but then, I have an SD.net account.

[Galvatron]

And they doubled down on the parsec thing just to fuck with people like us.

[Patroklos]

Just like every other god damn movie in the series right? So what? We actually have a weapon whose visuals are canonically described to go FTL. It's not really something to bitch about without looking like you have egg on your face. Like I said, about all they did was make the visual too big for drama's sake. Which, again, is not something Star Wars is unknown for.

Why do you think the weapon being FTL solves any problems? That doesn't explain why we can see it from real space at all, let alone why we can see it from Maz's. You can use FTL effectively in tame system you know.

The movie is the highest cannon. The visuals from it even more so because characters can be wrong (see Moff Motti). Cannon, as of right now, says they are in the same system until another movie or at least a novel mentions some wonky hyer tare or holo display.

[amigocabal]

Just like every other god damn movie in the series right? So what? We actually have a weapon whose visuals are canonically described to go FTL. It's not really something to bitch about without looking like you have egg on your face. Like I said, about all they did was make the visual too big for drama's sake. Which, again, is not something Star Wars is unknown for.

Why do you think the weapon being FTL solves any problems? That doesn't explain why we can see it from real space at all, let alone why we can see it from Maz's. You can use FTL effectively in tame system you know.

The movie is the highest cannon. The visuals from it even more so because characters can be wrong (see Moff Motti). Cannon, as of right now, says they are in the same system until another movie or at least a novel mentions some wonky hyer tare or holo display.

It seems plausible that a the hyperspatial nature of the weapon meant that the destruction of Hoznian Prime could be seen FTL as a side effect of some technobabble.

I would like to know more, such as what happened to the rest of the Empire. (The First order is clearly a splinter faction.) For all we know, there is still an emperor who reigns over part of the galaxy from Coruscant. (If true, it would be likely that Coruscant was next on the list of targets for Starkiller Base.)

I should also add that unless there was a refrigerator at the bottom of that pit, Han Solo is dead.

[Patroklos]

Actually that would have been cool. The First order takes out both the remnant Empire and the New Republic. Maybe we get some wonky alliance against them in the next one. That's an overdone trope too, but at least its different/

That took more than five seconds of thought though, so it wasn't possible for it to make it into the movie.

[GuppyShark]

I'm happy with the rationalisation that there is an FTL light show that corresponds to the Starkiller beam, which would have been seen across the galaxy by any beings who happened to look up at the right moment. All that excess energy has to go somewhere.

[Gaidin]

And they doubled down on the parsec thing just to fuck with people like us.

Which is ironically the most handwavable thing in the damn universe for reasons I've already gone into in this thread.

[Vendetta]

Are people really complaining about the visual used to express the destructiveness of Starkiller Base?

Yes, of course.

It's silly if you try and use real physics to explain it, but then so is everything else in Star Wars.


It's still more problematic that the scene shows people who aren't important to the drama being blowed up than that everyone can see it. This is a place where you can visit a hundred star systems in a day if you don't stop for a pint, weird space shit can happen.

[RogueIce]

It's still more problematic that the scene shows people who aren't important to the drama being blowed up than that everyone can see it.

Again, that's a legacy of a subplot that was ultimately cut from the movie. That one lady was supposed to be a minor character, so we would have seen her bite the big one. Which may or may not have given that scene more depth than it had.

Personally I feel like it worked just fine, technical nitpickery aside.

[Pelranius]

It would have probably made more impact for someone to talk about Hosnian Prime at greater length (perhaps Hux namedrops some of the NR leadership, or we get a few shots of the NRDF in all its glory before it gets blown to bits).

[Galvatron]

Caroline Blakiston (Mon Mothma in ROTJ) is still alive and acting. They could have cast her to be the familiar face on Hosnian Prime.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0086860/

[Channel72]

Its funny to me to see apologists trip over themselves to explain this away. The movie is the highest cannon. They are in the same system. People are just going to have to deal with that and with the director who gave it to them.

Yeah, you're right. But I still don't understand why this is anything special or unique with TFA. With Empire Strikes Back, we basically have to deal with the fact that apparently Bespin and Hoth are in the same system, and somehow Han's old friend Lando is, against all odds, coincidentally running a secret mining operation in the same system as a remote hidden rebel base somehow. Oh, and apparently Luke only trained with Yoda for like 2 days or some shit, but is somehow able to defeat Vader in the next movie anyway. (And Vader wasn't even badly wounded or anything, like Kylo Ren, so no excuses really even work here, other than just Luke having ridiculously amazing raw talent, or else he received training off-screen from Obi Wan's force ghost or whatever, which Lucas conveniently never told us about.)

But the difference is, with ESB, we've had like 30 years and reams of EU bullshit to help us come up with rationalizations for all this, so at this point it almost seems like a total non-issue - we basically just take the rationalizations for granted. (I actually don't even know what the fuck the go-to rationalization is for the fucked up ESB chronology - I guess maybe Han has some kind of FTL drive that's not Hyperdrive, or whatever - or maybe Han/Leia were on the Falcon for like 15 years, while Luke was training, and Vader was sitting in that conference room waiting for Han to show up for like 15 years ??? And maybe we can use some relativity shit to work out a way for Luke to be on Dagobah for more than 5 minutes? Whatever - the point is Lucas/Kasdan simply didn't work out the chronological details correctly.) I honestly don't see how the Starkiller beam being visible on Maz Kanata's planet is even that much more of a grievous problem here.

[Galvatron]

I have it on good authority that this movie is worse than the Holiday Special so things like Hosnian Prime matter.

[Gaidin]

Its funny to me to see apologists trip over themselves to explain this away. The movie is the highest cannon. They are in the same system. People are just going to have to deal with that and with the director who gave it to them.

Yeah, you're right. But I still don't understand why this is anything special or unique with TFA. With Empire Strikes Back, we basically have to deal with the fact that apparently Bespin and Hoth are in the same system, and somehow Han's old friend Lando is, against all odds, coincidentally running a secret mining operation in the same system as a remote hidden rebel base somehow. Oh, and apparently Luke only trained with Yoda for like 2 days or some shit, but is somehow able to defeat Vader in the next movie anyway. (And Vader wasn't even badly wounded or anything, like Kylo Ren, so no excuses really even work here, other than just Luke having ridiculously amazing raw talent, or else he received training off-screen from Obi Wan's force ghost or whatever, which Lucas conveniently never told us about.)

But the difference is, with ESB, we've had like 30 years and reams of EU bullshit to help us come up with rationalizations for all this, so at this point it almost seems like a total non-issue - we basically just take the rationalizations for granted. (I actually don't even know what the fuck the go-to rationalization is for the fucked up ESB chronology - I guess maybe Han has some kind of FTL drive that's not Hyperdrive, or whatever - or maybe Han/Leia were on the Falcon for like 15 years, while Luke was training, and Vader was sitting in that conference room waiting for Han to show up for like 15 years ??? And maybe we can use some relativity shit to work out a way for Luke to be on Dagobah for more than 5 minutes? Whatever - the point is Lucas/Kasdan simply didn't work out the chronological details correctly.) I honestly don't see how the Starkiller beam being visible on Maz Kanata's planet is even that much more of a grievous problem here.

Nevermind that Hoth and Bespin are at least ten light years apart. I'll just let him bitch.

[Patroklos]

Its funny to me to see apologists trip over themselves to explain this away. The movie is the highest cannon. They are in the same system. People are just going to have to deal with that and with the director who gave it to them.

Yeah, you're right. But I still don't understand why this is anything special or unique with TFA. With Empire Strikes Back, we basically have to deal with the fact that apparently Bespin and Hoth are in the same system, and somehow Han's old friend Lando is, against all odds, coincidentally running a secret mining operation in the same system as a remote hidden rebel base somehow. Oh, and apparently Luke only trained with Yoda for like 2 days or some shit, but is somehow able to defeat Vader in the next movie anyway. (And Vader wasn't even badly wounded or anything, like Kylo Ren, so no excuses really even work here, other than just Luke having ridiculously amazing raw talent, or else he received training off-screen from Obi Wan's force ghost or whatever, which Lucas conveniently never told us about.)

But the difference is, with ESB, we've had like 30 years and reams of EU bullshit to help us come up with rationalizations for all this, so at this point it almost seems like a total non-issue - we basically just take the rationalizations for granted. (I actually don't even know what the fuck the go-to rationalization is for the fucked up ESB chronology - I guess maybe Han has some kind of FTL drive that's not Hyperdrive, or whatever - or maybe Han/Leia were on the Falcon for like 15 years, while Luke was training, and Vader was sitting in that conference room waiting for Han to show up for like 15 years ??? And maybe we can use some relativity shit to work out a way for Luke to be on Dagobah for more than 5 minutes? Whatever - the point is Lucas/Kasdan simply didn't work out the chronological details correctly.) I honestly don't see how the Starkiller beam being visible on Maz Kanata's planet is even that much more of a grievous problem here.

I agree with you, ESB has lots of problems. But like you said ESB was made 30 years ago. The sensibility of audiences (particularly the layman's understanding of basic science) is different now, filmakers have more resources at their disposal and are expected to use them, and this one was never anything but the darling of the studio which lavished money upon it. ESB was blazing new ground in both the genre and special effects not following on 50 plus years of blockbuster scifi flicks. On top of that TFA is a follow up, so I expect it to learn from the mistakes of the previous movies.

But most of all as a self contained movie there is nothing in ESB like what happened to the NR/Hosnian Prime regarding nobody in the movie giving a shit about it. So you shoe horn in this stupid side plot that nobody inside or outside the movie cares about and THATS where you decide to make most of your plot holes and take all your plot shortcuts? Audiences will forgive some plot shenanigans if its really important and there is a payoff. Han and crowd making it to Bespin was central to the plot following the main story line, it was important. Hosnian Prime was not. If the movie was exactly the same EXCEPT they never shoot at Hosnian prime and the rebel base is their first target that gets foiled as we see does the movie change at all? So some of the characters don't get to see a planet blow up? Only one of the main characters from the last three ever did. What matter is WE, the audience, got to see it. And we did, and still have, and the threat from the DS II wasn't any less because we didn't see it again in that move. Is there some character arc we miss out on? Is some dude we cared about now alive instead of dead? No. All of this, from failure to provide context for the event itself to the stupid science mistakes, is in service to NOTHING!