The Clone Wars Season 3 discussion thread.

[VT-16]

I based my comments on how totalitarian and despotic Satine seemed like in this episode. If she's truly surrounded by a corrupt administration, it doesn't bode well for her leadership or people skills. I quite frankly saw someone who's steadily losing control, spending her time with meaningless gestures like arranging a parade for a person who's done little to nothing to actually help with the trade route problem. Padme leaves and.... they solved a crime. Wow, no wonder so many worlds want to leave the Republic.

[Purple]

Is it just me or does the entire series seem to indicate that the Republic was a messed up hell and that Palpatine was right?

This said, I don't mean right as in "Right in his intentions to become the all devouring sith lord of evil to last forever" but right as in "The galaxy needs a more stable government since the current one is clearly not working."

For some reason it just does not seem to me that his EU or even his later movies personality fits with the one shown in the prequels or the series. I mean he was always a manipulative power hungry dictator but he newer showed real evil up until the original trilogy.
Could it be that the dark side drove him insane during his time as the Emperor? Also, did the whole encounter with force lightning mess him up as well?

[Thanas]

No, the series shows that there are actually very decent senators who try their best to fix the system, only to be stymied by Palpatine at every opportunity.

[Vympel]

Frankly I can't believe there isn't more commentary on how fucking awful this latest episode was. I mean really, its easily up there as one of the worst Clone Wars episodes ever made. I doubt they could top something as painfully idiotic as this.

[Thanas]

The episode was so bland I can't find myself caring for it either way.

[RogueIce]

Frankly I can't believe there isn't more commentary on how fucking awful this latest episode was. I mean really, its easily up there as one of the worst Clone Wars episodes ever made. I doubt they could top something as painfully idiotic as this.

I'm with Thanas on the blandness. That was my first impression of the episode. It wasn't good, it wasn't bad, it was just there. Which is not a positive by any means.

On further thought, with what's been discussed regarding Satine, that can honestly push it down into "bad" territory. Though perhaps I'm holding out the slim hope that they could actually be going somewhere with the Duchess acting he way she was, rather than it simply being a case of sloppy writing.

It's a small hope, but I'm an optimist at heart.

[Darth Fanboy]

Is it just me or does the entire series seem to indicate that the Republic was a messed up hell and that Palpatine was right?

It's just you.

This said, I don't mean right as in "Right in his intentions to become the all devouring sith lord of evil to last forever" but right as in "The galaxy needs a more stable government since the current one is clearly not working."

No, no, no, a thousand fucking times NO.

Lest you forget that Palpatine is the one orchestrating the mess that the Republic found itself in.

For some reason it just does not seem to me that his EU or even his later movies personality fits with the one shown in the prequels or the series. I mean he was always a manipulative power hungry dictator but he newer showed real evil up until the original trilogy.
Could it be that the dark side drove him insane during his time as the Emperor? Also, did the whole encounter with force lightning mess him up as well?

Has it ever occured to you that the vas majority of his appearances in the CW era are depicting him in his Palpatine persona and that most of his appearances in the post-CW era show him as this tyrannical emperor?

What could have possibly happened after the Clone Wars (possibly during the events of Episode III) that would account for this odd transformation?

[Darth Fanboy]

I haven't even watched the latest episode yet but I have it saved on my DVR, is there anything at all worth watching or should I just forget about it?

[Thanas]

You should watch it if you like Padme's animation getting screwed up. And to marvel at the blandness of the episode. And if you like Mandalorians being shown as corrupt idiots.

That said, other than that...no.

[RogueIce]

I haven't even watched the latest episode yet but I have it saved on my DVR, is there anything at all worth watching or should I just forget about it?

If you're interested in small little details about galactic life, sure.

Other than that, not a whole lot. Although it does lead in to this Friday's episode, so watching it may or may not affect how well you understand this week's show. I suppose you could always wait and see what the reviews are like first if you're unsure about spending 22 minutes on what really isn't a great episode (but not that horrible, either, IMO).

[The Original Nex]

I agree this was a poor episode, and another instance of the wild characterization of the Duchess. Threatening the Superintendent with torture? Destroying evidence in a corruption investigation? Isn't she on the side AGAINST the corruption? Also...isn't she a pacifist?

While it was nice of them to have Padme and Satine comment that subversion and investigation isn't the sort of activity befitting their statures it still required more backstory IMO. I am curious as to Satine's ultimate role in Mandalore government. It seems to be a Constitutional Monarchy of sorts given the PM and his cabinet.

I'm also unimpressed at the hospital's investigation into the outbreak. Why didn't they test the bottled drinks before Satine got involved? One could say it was due to corruption, but the Doctor didn't seem to be part of that.

I did think the welcoming parade was kind of strange... it's a Mandalorian welcome? Do they get dignitaries visiting so rarely that they throw a bash every time they're graced with one's presence? And did Amidala even accomplish any of what she set out to do; that is help their trade situation?

And yes, her guards are impressive; I'm jumping on the Force-Sensitive bandwagon for them.

The underlying premise of the show; that neutral systems have a world of hardships of their own and lack legitimate channels to trade without joining sides in the war, is a good one, but the silliness of the story and the bad characterizations made this one of my least favorite episodes so far.

[Srelex]

I thought the episode was just meh. Would rather some good old-fashioned battles.

[Talhe]

I thought the episode was just meh. Would rather some good old-fashioned battles.

This season has a notable lack of big battles. Not that lower-deck, calmer episodes are bad, but I expect big battles from a series called the Clone Wars.

The next few episodes seem to continue the trend, but maybe we'll get something interesting with Aurra Sing.

[Srelex]

This season has a notable lack of big battles. Not that lower-deck, calmer episodes are bad, but I expect big battles from a series called the Clone Wars.

The next few episodes seem to continue the trend, but maybe we'll get something interesting with Aurra Sing.

Hmm. I guess the reasoning is to form a contrast with the previous series, which was pretty much all battles but rather loose on plot. Which isn't necesserily a bad thing, but still. I guess there's still some season to go.

[Adam Reynolds]

Regarding the episode Supply Lines, I just noticed that on the galactic map Naboo is much closer to Ryloth than Toydaria. So unless for some reason Naboo is cut off from supply from the fleet. why didn't they simply stage their relief mission from Naboo as opposed to Toydaria?

[Metahive]

For some reason it just does not seem to me that his EU or even his later movies personality fits with the one shown in the prequels or the series. I mean he was always a manipulative power hungry dictator but he newer showed real evil up until the original trilogy.
Could it be that the dark side drove him insane during his time as the Emperor? Also, did the whole encounter with force lightning mess him up as well?

So, deliberately instigating a massive, galaxy-wide war which cost billions of lives all for petty, egotistical and selfish goals doesn't really count as evil for you? Blowing up a single planet really pales in comparison I must say.

[Thanas]

Regarding the episode Supply Lines, I just noticed that on the galactic map Naboo is much closer to Ryloth than Toydaria. So unless for some reason Naboo is cut off from supply from the fleet. why didn't they simply stage their relief mission from Naboo as opposed to Toydaria?

There may be a blockade, or the resources of Naboo are already committed to other planets. Or there simply are no good hyperroutes - a lot of the galactic trade routes do not make sense if we go by distances. Hyperspeed is what matters here, apparently.

[Adam Reynolds]

For some reason it just does not seem to me that his EU or even his later movies personality fits with the one shown in the prequels or the series. I mean he was always a manipulative power hungry dictator but he newer showed real evil up until the original trilogy.
Could it be that the dark side drove him insane during his time as the Emperor? Also, did the whole encounter with force lightning mess him up as well?

So, deliberately instigating a massive, galaxy-wide war which cost billions of lives all for petty, egotistical and selfish goals doesn't really count as evil for you? Blowing up a single planet really pales in comparison I must say.

This reminds me of people who didn't believe that Senator Palpatine and Darth Sidious were the same person. Apparently the Jedi and Senate were not the only ones fooled by his duel personas.

Also there was a one-shot comic a while back that addressed this issue as a part of the comic Star Wars: Visionaries.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sithisis

[Metahive]

No, the series shows that there are actually very decent senators who try their best to fix the system, only to be stymied by Palpatine at every opportunity.

I haven't seen the latest episode, but the only time I remember senators trying to get something done against Palpatine's wishes was in Senate Murders...where they tried to curtail the creation of reinforcements for the GAR. Excuse me? There's a massive war raging against a complete monster of an enemy, a war in which the Republic is constantly portrayed as massively outnumbered and here we have a bunch of senators trying their best to make the odds even more lopsided? That those senators were portrayed as being unquestioningly in the right ("a bigger army is no solution!!!") and everyone against them as total sleazebags caused some holes to get banged into the nearest wall in my home.
Padme, dear, if a bunch of Weequay pirates had rammed a bunch of starships into the skyscrapers of Coruscant and Palpatine had declared a bogus War on Piracy and invaded Nal Hutta as reaction then you might have had a point...

I think Filoni and his writers should do more battles and less politics, they aren't really up to that stuff.

[Adam Reynolds]

Regarding the episode Supply Lines, I just noticed that on the galactic map Naboo is much closer to Ryloth than Toydaria. So unless for some reason Naboo is cut off from supply from the fleet. why didn't they simply stage their relief mission from Naboo as opposed to Toydaria?

There may be a blockade, or the resources of Naboo are already committed to other planets. Or there simply are no good hyperroutes - a lot of the galactic trade routes do not make sense if we go by distances. Hyperspeed is what matters here, apparently.

I had totally forgotten about the issue of trade routes, I should have known better.

[Thanas]

I haven't seen the latest episode, but the only time I remember senators trying to get something done against Palpatine's wishes was in Senate Murders...where they tried to curtail the creation of reinforcements for the GAR.

There also was the time they tried to vote against the "Invasion of Piracy Act" and Palpatine organized for them to be kidnapped/killed.

[Adam Reynolds]

I haven't seen the latest episode, but the only time I remember senators trying to get something done against Palpatine's wishes was in Senate Murders...where they tried to curtail the creation of reinforcements for the GAR. Excuse me? There's a massive war raging against a complete monster of an enemy, a war in which the Republic is constantly portrayed as massively outnumbered and here we have a bunch of senators trying their best to make the odds even more lopsided? That those senators were portrayed as being unquestioningly in the right ("a bigger army is no solution!!!") and everyone against them as total sleazebags caused some holes to get banged into the nearest wall in my home.
Padme, dear, if a bunch of Weequay pirates had rammed a bunch of starships into the skyscrapers of Coruscant and Palpatine had declared a bogus War on Piracy and invaded Nal Hutta as reaction then you might have had a point...

I think Filoni and his writers should do more battles and less politics, they aren't really up to that stuff.

This reminds me of Ghandi's idea for how the Jews of Europe should have dealt with the Nazis, mass suicide. The only way his style of strategies can be effective is if one's enemies are inherently decent, which does not apply to the CIS in general.
This is also similar to George Orwell's arguements against pacifism during WW2. "Since pacifists have more freedom of action in countries where traces of democracy survive, pacifism can act more effectively against democracy than for it. Objectively the pacifist is pro-Nazi."

Actually the Duchess was a reasonably effective portrayal in her original arc, ignoring the Contaigan episode. She was actually in the right that committing Republic forces would have made the situation worse. She was also at least willing to use force to resist even if she was against violence in general. There was also the fact that her solution to neutrality was to withdraw from the Republic as opposed to fighting the creation of military forces within the Republic. Before Geonosis it would have been somewhat reasonable to resist the creation of an army, after that it was both futile and inherently dangerous in the sense that the Republic is basically fighting for its very existence.

[Jade Owl]

OK, if I was in Satine’s shoes right now, I’d be getting pretty paranoid.

Every high official in the Mandalorian government is either a traitor or corrupt!

She reminds me of a president we had here in Peru, called Fernando Belaunde. He was an impeccably honest and dedicated statesman, but his administration was terribly ineffectual because absolutely everyone except him was a corrupt crook stealing anything that wasn’t bolted down and taking bribes hand over fist. Satine seems to have the exact same problem.

[Metahive]

There also was the time they tried to vote against the "Invasion of Piracy Act" and Palpatine organized for them to be kidnapped/killed.

It amuses me that people like Bush and Cheney could push through the Patriot Act completely legally without there being any real substantial threat to the state whereas the supposedly shrewd political mastermind Palpatine despite there being a real and powerful enemy menacing the very existence of the Republic can't do better than sicking a bunch of mercenaries after senators who oppose his schemes. You go, Palpy.

I presume you're talking about the episode Hostage Crisis? It's one of the episodes I haven't watched so far yet. I generally do not like episodes that prominently feature "Bounty Hunters".

Also...Invastion of Privacy Act? That's a nickname, right?

[Adam Reynolds]

I presume you're talking about the episode Hostage Crisis? It's one of the episodes I haven't watched so far yet. I generally do not like episodes that prominently feature "Bounty Hunters".

Yes, this is presumably the episode he is referring to. I have to say that this is one of the most irritating episodes IMO, the security shown by the Senate is abysmal. If the same type of plot was attempted against the White House, the bounty hunters would have ended up with a face full of lead courtesy of the US Secret Service. Here is the plot:
A group of bounty hunters pretty effortlessly waltzes through Senate security as if it wasn't there. When the first group of Senate Guards appears, they are all defeated by sniper fire as well as hand to hand combat with a bounty hunter. Apparently the Senate guard does not understand the concept of counter-sniping, something that the US Secret Service practices regularly. The security forces also fail to realize that a sniper is firing upon their guards, apparently they lack external sensors around their building for this purpose. A commando droid is able to fool the security by mimicking the voice of one of the guards and reporting that everything is under control. This group of bounty hunters then manages to defeat the guards inside the building by throwing a grenade into the armory during shift change, apparently they don't understand the concept of overlapping guard shifts. They then are able to access the control center which controls the entire facility and only contains a single guard and no alarm. There is also the fact that Anakin gives his lightsaber to Padme at the beginning of the episode and therefore is absolutely useless the entire episode. Apparently he lacks the ability to be even remotely effective without a lightsaber. He is overcome by this guy: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Robonino
Regarding the idea that Palpatine somehow manipulated security, could the President possibly get rid of his security detail? Even if he merely gave them the playbook, how would this help? True security should be effective even when its mechanisms are known.

One general observation I've noticed is that the original characters in this series seem to all be Mary Sueish. We have Cad Bane who successfully violates security at both the Senate and Jedi Temple as well as the ability to cause Jedi to act like morons around him. We then have Hondo Ohnaka who successfully captures Dooku, Anakin, and Obi-Wan as well as survives a lightsaber duel with Anakin.