why would you build a death star in the first place?

[Evil Sadistic Bastard]

Why the Death Star? Superlaser. Makes a joke out of all kinds of shielding and resistance, even if it takes forever to fire. That's what SD backup is for. The DS was a symbol of power. An inefficient symbol, yes, but a very powerful one. Palpy needed this symbol (On second thought, maybe not, given that he could mind trick(?) the entire Jedi Council) to further unite the Empire under him. I mean, which is more bad-ass - seeing a few hundred ships or a huge fucking enormous Happy Fun Ball which makes those ships look like sawdust?

Patrick: Tactically, yes. He who has the bigger gun, and can get it in to place, wins. After all, if you want to fuck a planet up, just let the DS get one shot into it and BOOMYA! Problem solved. But strategically I would prefer the mass of SDs that could be made from the DS's materials. More flexible (unless you can split the Death Star up into Death Bouillon Cubes each with their own superlaser), faster (you need more energy to move that mass)

[Evil Sadistic Bastard]

AND also safer, in a way. If the DSII dies (Wong Forbid) Palpy will ahve to listen to jackasses saying "Sorry, dude, we like, lost the Star, man. There goes all those trillions of creds, pissed down the <insert screaming of poor fucker being roasted by Force Lightning)"

[Doomriser]

"With the Senate dissolved, the Emperor gave his regional governors direct control and a free hand in administering their territories. From this point on, the Empire would be ruled by fear. Fear would keep local governments in line. Fear of the Imperial Fleet - and fear of the Death Star."

-rule through fear is one of the major reasons behind the Death Star's construction

"Priority sectors are the first to receive experimental equipment, and theirs are the first to have losses replaced. Priority sectors are sometimes given special missions in which the Emperor has a personal interest. The Death Star Project is an example of a priority sector into which the Empire poured resources enough to have formed perhaps a score of Sector Groups."

-The DS1 cost as much to build as 20 sector groups

"I think this effect could be exploited to a far greater degree. The average citizen deals in symbols, not rational analysis. If we present the citizen with a weapon so powerful, so immense as to defy all conceivable attack against it, a weapon invulnerable and invincible in battle, that shall become the symbol for the Empire. We may need only a handful, perhaps only one of these weapons, to subjugate thousands of thousands of worlds, each containing millions upon millions of beings."

-Tarkin on why the DS would be cost-effective

SOURCE: "The Imperial Sourcebook," Chapter 1 "A Primer on Imperial Power."

[Mr Bean]

Also to be fair its also in the EU Daala in her Tarkin Worsphing watchs him give a speach on a planet about just this sort of thing Fear of Force and all

Aka the Tarkin Doctrine

[Evil Sadistic Bastard]

Anyways the Death Star is there, it's cool, so why worry about it? if nothing else, the Death Star was a proof of concept - that the Empire can blow planets up whenever it feels like it.

Also from Star Control 2: The race called the Precursors used devices called "planeteering bombs", which cleared out asteroid belts and rogue moons. The DS could be used in a similar fashion. I believe somebody once talked about the DS fragging a planet, then having World Devastators eat the remains. And is there any other, more effective way to take out a moon-sized asteroid headed for your homeworld?

[Doomriser]

The designers of the DS1 actually thought that they were developing a planetary mining tool! By turning the planet into asteroids, the DS was supposed to make it easier to mine for choice bits.

[Lord_Vader]

What should be more interesting is the original DS and the lack of fighter support it had. I think from the movies its rather obvious that the Rebels DID NOT send such a huge overwhelming force of starfighters as to seriously wipe out all of the DS's fighters..? Doubtful. If the DS had launched even a 1/4 of its full fighter complement regardless of Wedge or Luke flying the sheer number of fighters engaging them would have been too much.

DSII was a superior DS. According to the various encyclopedias etc...and from what we saw in the movie it had the ability to fire its superlaser repeatedly and HIT capships. I dont know how much the info in the encyclopedias has changed since I last looked at the one I have which I got in like 97 or 98 but the original DS took a long long time to recharge its superlaser. The DSIIs shields were supposed to be strong enough to more or less weather any assault thrown against it and with its many TLs and TIEs as well as superlaser it could more or less annihilate anything thrown against it.

Was DS a waste of resources? Depends I guess on how you view its mission. In my opinion destroying Alderaan was stupid...history has shown that by usually instigating some horrific act of violence against one's enemy it will either morally defeat them or harden their resolve. So it can be a double-edged sword. Tarkin should have instead demonstrated on some other target such as a large asteroid or uninhabited planet. By destroying Alderaan instead of the DS ruling by fear it would now harden many people's resolve against it. Hard for me to say the same thing about the DSII since there was no 'vulnerability' like on the original DS. If a DS showed up in orbit the last thought on my mind would be to resist or rebel. I think the original DS was a waste of resources...but not the second one..had it been finished of course.

[Defiant]

Another use of the Death Star is as a mobile, self-contained base of operations. If the Empire needed to enter a prolonged conflict, then the DS would perform the role of mobile base admirably.

[Darth Wong]

Also keep in mind that the DS would have been virtually impervious to attack except for that horrible design flaw. If the attack had failed, they would have been able to correct it easily now that they knew about it. The idea makes sense from the perspective that the Emperor would be much safer on DS2 than he would be on Coruscant.

As for making a DS's mass in ISD's, that would be a truly fearsome sight too; imagine a fleet of 20 million ISD's heading toward your planet, each one capable of BDZ-level firepower! However, the staffing requirements of 20 million ISD's would probably be much greater than those of a single Death Star, since a Death Star is not going to have as much redundant work as 20 million ISD's would.

[IRG CommandoJoe]

Yet again, 20 million ISDs would be unstoppable. Who cares about staffing, costs, maintenence, and whatever else when you can exploit the entire galaxy of its resources? It would mean very little to the Empire.

[Imperial Federation]

The difference between 20 million ISDs and one Death Star is that it's ONE Death Star, one all powerful symbol of the Empire's might.
Yes ISDs are scary, but everyone's seen them, in a way they're used to them, then comes this almighty globe of death that takes you out in one shot and laughs at you.

Besides, 20 million ISDs still need logistical support, and even for the Empire it would be trying at times, whereas the Death Star can more or less support itself (I think it has it's own factories and stuff aboard, correct me if I'm wrong).
And even if it couldn't, I think it's far easier to supply one enormous starship than 20 million little ones.

[Darth Yoshi]

What should be more interesting is the original DS and the lack of fighter support it had. I think from the movies its rather obvious that the Rebels DID NOT send such a huge overwhelming force of starfighters as to seriously wipe out all of the DS's fighters..? Doubtful. If the DS had launched even a 1/4 of its full fighter complement regardless of Wedge or Luke flying the sheer number of fighters engaging them would have been too much.

The rebel attack would have failed if Tarkin hadn't been overconfident. If you remember, about thirty fighters engaged the DS. Two X-wings, the Falcon, and a Y-wing survived. Almost all of the Rebel casualties were at the hands of Vader's fighter group. If Tarkin had sent out a group of fighters to support Vader, the Rebellion would have been finished.

[IRG CommandoJoe]

Tell me how you would stop 20 million ISDs? Like I said before, who cares about the costs of making 20 million ISDs when you have an entire GALAXY to exploit?

[Darth Wong]

Tell me how you would stop 20 million ISDs? Like I said before, who cares about the costs of making 20 million ISDs when you have an entire GALAXY to exploit?

You're assuming that they have enough manpower to staff 20 million ISD's. It was already pointed out that a DS probably has a miniscule fraction of the manpower requirements of 20 million ISD's, since it won't have 20 million redundant copies of each system.

If they don't have the necessary manpower, then it's really a moot point how effective 20 million ISD's would be. In other words, one could easily imagine that their industrial output vastly outstrips their manpower, hence a DS becomes more viable than 20 million mile-long capital warships (although one must admit that 20 million ISD's would be a truly terrifying sight to behold).

[IRG CommandoJoe]

"Neccesity is the mother of invention."

Or cloning....

Why couldn't the Empire clone its officers?

[Imperial Federation]

Isn't cloning lost technology?
Besides, maybe cloning's okay for grunts, but officers need to be made of better stuff..
And I think 20 million ISDs would be a royal pain in the ass to command, much more trouble than 1 DS, and Palpatine did want total control after all.

Plus movie wise, they need one target, you tell me how Luke Skywalker's going to bring down 20 million ISDs

[Enforcer Talen]

that's kinda the point, lol, you'd need a galaxy wide set of resources to handle 20 million isds, while with the ds1, you only need a lucky x wing.

and, I thought in aotc officers were made?

[IRG CommandoJoe]

Isn't cloning lost technology?

What makes you think it is lost technology? There's plenty of Stormtroopers about in the OT.

Besides, maybe cloning's okay for grunts, but officers need to be made of better stuff..

The clones/Stormtroopers were purposefully dumbed down and made extremely obedient and loyal to the Emperor. Why not just do the same process of cloning officers proven to be competent without the dumbing down?

And I think 20 million ISDs would be a royal pain in the ass to command, much more trouble than 1 DS, and Palpatine did want total control after all.

Then how in the hell did he command all 25,000 ISDs and millions of support craft?! There's no possible way he could have. He let his most trustworthy tacticians and strategists worry about all of that. He didn't micro-manage his entire military. So what would make you think he would do something different with 20 million ISDs?

[Imperial Federation]

What makes you think it is lost technology? There's plenty of Stormtroopers about in the OT.

Something about it in the EU, I think.
Besides, I don't think Stormtroopers are clones (I don't care what Lucas says, it doesn't fit in my view)

Then how in the hell did he command all 25,000 ISDs and millions of support craft?! There's no possible way he could have. He let his most trustworthy tacticians and strategists worry about all of that. He didn't micro-manage his entire military. So what would make you think he would do something different with 20 million ISDs?

But he and Tarkin before him probably DID want to micro-manage with the Death Star, that's the whole point.
Instead of 20 million ISDs with 20 million Captains each managing their own ship while taking orders, Palpy has one all powerful command center where he has total and absolute control with no middle men.

[Enforcer Talen]

I remember the thrawn trilogy talking about cloning no longer existing, destroyed during the clone wars, banned, only a few cylinders left in old caches, stuff like that.

but aotc suggests stormtroopers past and present are clones, which tosses that idea out.

[Mr Bean]

Not quite Talon, They still could be banned by the Empire because remeber
Clone Wars to Empire take over was what? Barley a year?

[Lusankya]

With a death star, all the fire power (well, almost all anyway) can be concentrated on one target.

With 20 million Star destroyers, that could get a bit difficult.

[IRG CommandoJoe]

What difference would it make if the Empire had 20 million ISDs with completely loyal crews than 25 thousand ISDs with completely loyal crews?! You keep saying there are middle men and all this nonsensical crap. Palpatine held ABSOLUTE POWER over EVERYTHING. Anyone that didn't agree with him wasn't an Imperial anymore, but a Rebel. There are no middle men in the Imperial military. Palpatine gives them commands and they obey. What middle men are there? There is no one in the entire Empire who can question Palpatine. Not even Darth Vader or Grand Moff Tarkin. Don't forget who's running the show. Not the guys in the cool military suits, not the guy in the black shiny armor who chokes people, not the people in command of the Death Stars, not the people in command of the Star Destroyers, but the wrinkly old guy in the robes who laughs a lot. HE is the true ruler of the Imperial Empire.

[Darth Yoshi]

Then how in the hell did he command all 25,000 ISDs and millions of support craft?! There's no possible way he could have. He let his most trustworthy tacticians and strategists worry about all of that. He didn't micro-manage his entire military. So what would make you think he would do something different with 20 million ISDs?

That was one of the reason he authorized the DS project, and disbanded the senate. It gave him more control over the military. I mean, with 25,000 ISD's an admiral could potentially convince half the fleet to go rogue. That would be a pain. But with a DS, with Palpatine as the flag, no one is going to defect.

[Imperial Federation]

What difference would it make if the Empire had 20 million ISDs with completely loyal crews than 25 thousand ISDs with completely loyal crews?! You keep saying there are middle men and all this nonsensical crap. Palpatine held ABSOLUTE POWER over EVERYTHING. Anyone that didn't agree with him wasn't an Imperial anymore, but a Rebel. There are no middle men in the Imperial military. Palpatine gives them commands and they obey. What middle men are there? There is no one in the entire Empire who can question Palpatine. Not even Darth Vader or Grand Moff Tarkin. Don't forget who's running the show. Not the guys in the cool military suits, not the guy in the black shiny armor who chokes people, not the people in command of the Death Stars, not the people in command of the Star Destroyers, but the wrinkly old guy in the robes who laughs a lot. HE is the true ruler of the Imperial Empire.

Yes there ARE middle men, even in the command structure of Palpy's totalitarian Empire.
20 million ISDs would mean vast amounts of high ranking officers in charge of portions of it, and if even a section of those ISDs were compromised, it'd be trouble.
It doesn't matter if no one can question Palpatine (in theory, in practise some have, Palpatine is powerful, but he can't be EVERYWHERE), there'd still be too many more people doing too many more things than there should be with just one Death Star.

This thread is ultimatley pointless if you ask me though, setting aside all other arguments, the Empire built the DS simply because it could.
If the Empire simply existed on utilitarianism, there'd be no Super Star Destroyers and such either, let alone the Death Star.