Going to make a SW Turn Based Naval Combat Game

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Post by NecronLord » 2002-11-09 01:56pm

MKSheppard wrote:
Soulman wrote:Id the game going to be easily moddable? It would be nice o be able to add new ships and perhaps even make versions based on other series and suchlike.
I'm doing it like Space Empires IV, with most of
the data in text files.....

Also, I have just recieved permission from a wargame designer
to use his source code to develop my own game...

Let's hear it for Janne Viitala of FINLAND!

Image
and seperate image files. Kewl, though if i were you I'd aim for SE3. :D
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Post by Sea Skimmer » 2002-11-09 03:45pm

This list reflects my thoughts on pricing, and the fact that five wings of X and A wings along with a dreadnought where thought to be very outmached against an Imperator in Heir to the Empire.

ISD I: 10000 pts
ISD II: 12000 pts
VSD I: 6000 pts
VSD II: 7000 pts
Lancer Frigate: 2500 pts
418-Immobilizer: 4000 pts
Dreadnaught: 3200 pts
Cor. Corvette: 1000 pts
Cor. Gunship: 1250 pts
Strike Cruiser: 3000 pts
Escort Carrier: 800 pts
Nebulon-B: 1000 pts
Mon Cal Cruiser, MC80: 8500 pts
Mon Cal Command ship with 92! turbolaser batteries: 25000

X-Wing: 200 pts/squadron
Y-Wing: 100 pts/squadron
A-Wing: 200 pts/squadron
B-Wing: 250 pts/squadron
Z-95 with lasers and missiles: 50 pts/squadron
T-Wing: 35 pts/squadron

TIE Fighter: 75 pts/squadron
TIE Interceptor: 125 pts/squadron
TIE Bomber: 150 pts/squadron
TIE Advanced: 175 pts/squadron
Assault Gunboat: 200 pts/squadron

Galaxy: +25 pts, we'll pay you to take them away!
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Post by Soulman » 2002-11-09 03:48pm

MKSheppard wrote:
Cpt_Frank wrote:that kinda thing always sucks.
But I just sniped someone else for a consolation prize :twisted:

West End Games STAR WARS Battle for Endor 1989 board game #40206

Recreates the critical battle on the Forest Moon from the Return of the Jedi. This game can be played solitaire or with friends. The game is complete with the terrain map, 62 stand-up playing pieces, a deck of Acton Cards and a deck of Event cards, six special fire dice and the rules manual.

The game box is in great shape with only minor signs of shelf wear.
I hope it doesn't distract you from your programming 8)

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Post by Cpt_Frank » 2002-11-09 03:50pm

This list reflects my thoughts on pricing, and the fact that five wings of X and A wings along with a dreadnought where thought to be very outmached against an Imperator in Heir to the Empire.
I'd say let shep do it the way he wants it. If it's easy to edit, everyone can go ahead and make the values they like.
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Post by MKSheppard » 2002-11-09 04:55pm

Sea Skimmer wrote:This list reflects my thoughts on pricing, and the fact that five wings of X and A wings along with a dreadnought where thought to be very outmached against an Imperator in Heir to the Empire.

ISD I: 10000 pts

...

Galaxy: +25 pts, we'll pay you to take them away!
Heh, Actually I was aiming towards the standard wargaming
convention of 1,000 points for a decent sized force....
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Post by Sea Skimmer » 2002-11-09 06:24pm

MKSheppard wrote:
Sea Skimmer wrote:This list reflects my thoughts on pricing, and the fact that five wings of X and A wings along with a dreadnought where thought to be very outmached against an Imperator in Heir to the Empire.

ISD I: 10000 pts

...

Galaxy: +25 pts, we'll pay you to take them away!
Heh, Actually I was aiming towards the standard wargaming
convention of 1,000 points for a decent sized force....
I think the spread of combat power is significantly greater for Star Wars then your average war game.
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Post by MKSheppard » 2002-11-09 06:49pm

X-Wing: No special Bonuses, average plain vanilla craft.

Y-Wing: Has targetting bonuses, due to it's excellent sensor
system, making it suitable for wild weasel attacks.

A-Wing: Has Above-Average targetting bonuses, and an excellent
sensor-jamming system, along with steerable laser cannons. A-Wing
has very high maintenance costs due to it's minaturized systems
being crammed into a such a small hull.

B-Wing: Has Manuverability bonus due to gyroscopic rotation of
craft around the cockpit to alter the center of gravity
significantly. Drawback to this system is tha

MOVEMENT:

Every craft will have an "acceleration" and "deceleration"
rating, not a maximum speed. An ISD and an X-Wing will both
be capable of doing 20 hex/turn movement, except that the
X-Wing can speed up to that in just 1 turn, while it takes
the ISD 15+ turns to get up to that speed, and just
as long to slow down.

There are no sudden Arilieloulay-style deceleration capabilities
in this game...if your craft has a speed of 20, you MUST travel
20 hexes in a turn, or whichever speed you are capable of decelerating
to in one turn.

For example; if you are in an VSD with a speed of 20, and your VSD
has a decelerative capability of 5, you can chose to slow down
and travel just 15 hexes that turn, and so on, so on, until you
come to a complete stop.
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Post by Sea Skimmer » 2002-11-09 07:30pm

MKSheppard wrote:X-Wing: No special Bonuses, average plain vanilla craft.

Y-Wing: Has targetting bonuses, due to it's excellent sensor
system, making it suitable for wild weasel attacks.

A-Wing: Has Above-Average targetting bonuses, and an excellent
sensor-jamming system, along with steerable laser cannons. A-Wing
has very high maintenance costs due to it's minaturized systems
being crammed into a such a small hull.

B-Wing: Has Manuverability bonus due to gyroscopic rotation of
craft around the cockpit to alter the center of gravity
significantly. Drawback to this system is tha

MOVEMENT:

Every craft will have an "acceleration" and "deceleration"
rating, not a maximum speed. An ISD and an X-Wing will both
be capable of doing 20 hex/turn movement, except that the
X-Wing can speed up to that in just 1 turn, while it takes
the ISD 15+ turns to get up to that speed, and just
as long to slow down.

There are no sudden Arilieloulay-style deceleration capabilities
in this game...if your craft has a speed of 20, you MUST travel
20 hexes in a turn, or whichever speed you are capable of decelerating
to in one turn.

For example; if you are in an VSD with a speed of 20, and your VSD
has a decelerative capability of 5, you can chose to slow down
and travel just 15 hexes that turn, and so on, so on, until you
come to a complete stop.
Are you going to allow for ships to shutdown engines and change orintation while maintaining its direction of movement, so say an ISD can fire on a target on its flank with its full froward armament as it passes.
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Post by MKSheppard » 2002-11-09 10:48pm

Sea Skimmer wrote: Are you going to allow for ships to shutdown engines and change orintation while maintaining its direction of movement, so say an ISD can fire on a target on its flank with its full froward armament as it passes.
Whooo! Now THIS is what I'm talking about when I want help!

I never considered THAT possibility before.....

I've begun to lay down the file format specs for the ship data files....

Following stuff is Preliminary with made up numbers thrown in:

*******************

SHIP DATA POINTER FILE SPECIFICATIONS:

Ship/Unit data to be held in pointer file titled ShipList.TXT,
which will take the following format:

START OF FILE

ISD.SHP
ISD2.SHP
DREADNOUGHT.SHP
CORCORVETTE.SHP
"
"
"
"
"
etc
etc

END OF FILE

With each line containing the name of a ship data file, allowing
a theoretically unlimited number of ships to be added to the program.

******************

SHIP DATA FILE SPECIFICIATIONS:

Each Datafile will contain the data needed to faithfully recreate the unit
in the wargame, and will have the file extension .SHP, and use the
following format:

START OF FILE

SET FULL_NAME = IMPERATOR-CLASS STAR DESTROYER */ Ship Class Name /*
SET ABBREVIATION = ISD */ Ship Class Abbreviation /*
SET TOPDOWNVIEW = "ISDTile.bmp" */ Tells program what bitmap to use for top down view of ISD for hexmap view /*
SET SIDEVIEW = "ISDSide.bmp" */ Tells program which bitmap to use for side view of ISD in status screens /*
SET POINT_COST = 10,0000 */ Point Cost /*
SET RARITY_PRE_ANH = 25% */ Tells Program to add 25% to cost of ISD in Pre _A New Hope_ Era /*
SET RARITY_ANH = 25% */ Tells Program to add 25% to cost of ISD in _A New Hope_ Era /*
SET RARITY_ESB = 10% */ Tells Program to add 10% to cost of ISD in _Empire Strikes Back_ Era /*
SET RARITY_ROTJ = 10% */ Tells Program to add 10% to cost of ISD in _Return of Jedi_ Era /*
SET RARITY_POST_ROTJ = 10% */ Tells Program to add 10% to cost of ISD in post _Return of Jedi_ Era /*
SET RARITY_SOTP = 1000% */ Tells Program to add 1,000% to cost of ISD in _Spectre of the Past_ Era /*
SET PRESTIGE_POINTS = 1,000 */ Tells Program that if you destroy an ISD, you are awarded 1k Prestige Points /*

END OF FILE (For now)
"If scientists and inventors who develop disease cures and useful technologies don't get lifetime royalties, I'd like to know what fucking rationale you have for some guy getting lifetime royalties for writing an episode of Full House." - Mike Wong

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Post by Sea Skimmer » 2002-11-09 11:04pm

MKSheppard wrote:
Sea Skimmer wrote: Are you going to allow for ships to shutdown engines and change orintation while maintaining its direction of movement, so say an ISD can fire on a target on its flank with its full froward armament as it passes.
Whooo! Now THIS is what I'm talking about when I want help!

I never considered THAT possibility before.....

I've begun to lay down the file format specs for the ship data files....

Following stuff is Preliminary with made up numbers thrown in:

*******************

SHIP DATA POINTER FILE SPECIFICATIONS:

Ship/Unit data to be held in pointer file titled ShipList.TXT,
which will take the following format:

START OF FILE

ISD.SHP
ISD2.SHP
DREADNOUGHT.SHP
CORCORVETTE.SHP
"
"
"
"
"
etc
etc

END OF FILE

With each line containing the name of a ship data file, allowing
a theoretically unlimited number of ships to be added to the program.
This idea stems from a long ago thread on the ANH trench run. Someone suggested that the trailing X wings could have attempted to turn around and fire at the pursuing TIE's while maintaining there forward flight. Now it would not have worked because the bottom of the trench is not flat and the TIEs would have out accelerated and crashed into them.

It's great for a dagger-hulled warship to hit flank targets and for a ship with heavy broadsides but weak forward fire to hit something ahead of it. However since some speed would still be lost and it would take some precision I'd think at least one movement would be needed for it. However the spin taken by the ion damaged ISD in ESB would indicate that such rapid turns are possible, though that likely was the result of a main engine firing rather then secondary thrusters or roll control jets.

I'll reply to the second part later on.
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Post by Sea Skimmer » 2002-11-09 11:05pm

Damn, Stupid quote function got fucked up.

Fixed it for you.~Cpt_Frank
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Post by NecronLord » 2002-11-10 08:37am

Death Star = 1,000,000,000 pts :twisted:
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Post by MKSheppard » 2002-11-10 08:51am

NecronLord wrote:Death Star = 1,000,000,000 pts :twisted:
No no no no no!

FULLY COMPLETED Death Star II:

100,000,000,000 Points :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
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Post by NecronLord » 2002-11-10 10:50am

MKSheppard wrote:
NecronLord wrote:Death Star = 1,000,000,000 pts :twisted:
No no no no no!

FULLY COMPLETED Death Star II:

100,000,000,000 Points :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
Sun Crusher = 200,000,000,000 pts
Death star Prototype = 500,000 pts. :twisted:

buy 2000 of them instead :twisted:

vengence class star cruiser 25,000pts. going by Sea skimmers

if you go by standard convention. use sea skimmers but shift the Decimal point a little.
250 pts vengance
100 pts ISD I
1 pt = y-wing
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Post by Sea Skimmer » 2002-11-10 02:30pm

NecronLord wrote:
MKSheppard wrote:
NecronLord wrote:Death Star = 1,000,000,000 pts :twisted:
No no no no no!

FULLY COMPLETED Death Star II:

100,000,000,000 Points :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
Sun Crusher = 200,000,000,000 pts
Death star Prototype = 500,000 pts. :twisted:

buy 2000 of them instead :twisted:

vengence class star cruiser 25,000pts. going by Sea skimmers

if you go by standard convention. use sea skimmers but shift the Decimal point a little.
250 pts vengance
100 pts ISD I
1 pt = y-wing
Not till the turbolasers glow white hot and the men run out of urine shall I submit to the tyranny of logic and compromise!

Enforcer: 2800 pts
Allegiance: 19,000 pts
Vengeance: 30,000 pts
Shockwave:48,000 pts
Giel's star battleship 7km: 35,000 pts

More random thoughts


Enforcer: 2800 pts
Allegiance: 19,000 pts
Vengeance: 25,000 pts
Shockwave:35,000 pts
Giel's star battleship 7km: 42,000 pts

Mediator: 14,000 pts
Definance/MC 90: 11,500 pts
Defender: 30-40K
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Post by NecronLord » 2002-11-10 03:24pm

Sea Skimmer wrote:
NecronLord wrote:
MKSheppard wrote: No no no no no!

FULLY COMPLETED Death Star II:

100,000,000,000 Points :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
Sun Crusher = 200,000,000,000 pts
Death star Prototype = 500,000 pts. :twisted:

buy 2000 of them instead :twisted:

vengence class star cruiser 25,000pts. going by Sea skimmers

if you go by standard convention. use sea skimmers but shift the Decimal point a little.
250 pts vengance
100 pts ISD I
1 pt = y-wing
Not till the turbolasers glow white hot and the men run out of urine shall I submit to the tyranny of logic and compromise!

Enforcer: 2800 pts
Allegiance: 19,000 pts
Vengeance: 30,000 pts
Shockwave:48,000 pts
Giel's star battleship 7km: 35,000 pts

More random thoughts


Enforcer: 2800 pts
Allegiance: 19,000 pts
Vengeance: 25,000 pts
Shockwave:35,000 pts
Giel's star battleship 7km: 42,000 pts

Mediator: 14,000 pts
Definance/MC 90: 11,500 pts
Defender: 30-40K
Shockwave worth more than A Vengeance?!

The horror

The insult
[Vengeance-class star battlecruiser]

type: battlecruiser?
name: Vengeance
nickname:
builder: ?
length: > 10.1km
volume:
engines: 3 major, 2 medium, 6 minor
weaponry:
internal docking: unknown
fighters: unknown
reference: Dark Forces II: Jedi Knight
and the shockwave
Shockwave
LENGTH:
over 1.6km; less than 8km
MANUFACTURER:
Kuat Drive Yards (?)
SIGHTING:
Deep Core, year +8 after Palpatine's fall.
Admiral Giel's star battleship [anonymous #1]
LENGTH:
6.9 km ? (< 13.4 km)
MANUFACTURER:
[same as anonymous star carrier #1 ?]
SIGHTING:
En route from Outer Rim Territories to Coruscant, roughly 1 year before Palpatine's fall.
Saxton's site.
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Post by Sea Skimmer » 2002-11-10 04:24pm

Length is not all there is to it. Mass is the real arbiter of combat power, and Shockwave seemed to be a normal KDY dagger warship, just much more powerful, unlike the ultra slim Vengeance. As a result it likely masses more, especially if it's towards the high end, 7-8K, of its length bracket.

The Giel's is extremely fat and very broad, proving it with a much larger mass as well. Though now that I think of it its cost more be more appropriate if it's assumed to be 13400 meters. In that case I rated it as more like 75K
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Update....

Post by MKSheppard » 2002-11-11 12:50am

Made my first simple program in C......I was thinking of putting out
a simple ASCII text version to prove the gameplay mechanics to
y'all, and then find someone to help me translate it into the windows
version with hexmaps.....
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Post by NecronLord » 2002-11-11 03:53am

Sea Skimmer wrote:Length is not all there is to it. Mass is the real arbiter of combat power, and Shockwave seemed to be a normal KDY dagger warship, just much more powerful, unlike the ultra slim Vengeance. As a result it likely masses more, especially if it's towards the high end, 7-8K, of its length bracket.

The Giel's is extremely fat and very broad, proving it with a much larger mass as well. Though now that I think of it its cost more be more appropriate if it's assumed to be 13400 meters. In that case I rated it as more like 75K
I think that the Vengeance is designed to have a smaller profile. This would also be why it is far more heavlty armoured than a normal ship, It is designed to outlast it's opponenets.
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Post by NecronLord » 2002-11-11 07:31am

In adddition, Saxton suggests the possibility that the Vengeance may be incomplete. Other explanations for the Ventral cavity are that it has a huge number if fighters, or that the huge size (large enough to hold an imperator II in comfort) indicates that it is a Space Yard ship, I.e. A movable shipyard.
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Post by Sea Skimmer » 2002-11-11 03:54pm

NecronLord wrote:
Sea Skimmer wrote:Length is not all there is to it. Mass is the real arbiter of combat power, and Shockwave seemed to be a normal KDY dagger warship, just much more powerful, unlike the ultra slim Vengeance. As a result it likely masses more, especially if it's towards the high end, 7-8K, of its length bracket.

The Giel's is extremely fat and very broad, proving it with a much larger mass as well. Though now that I think of it its cost more be more appropriate if it's assumed to be 13400 meters. In that case I rated it as more like 75K
I think that the Vengeance is designed to have a smaller profile. This would also be why it is far more heavlty armoured than a normal ship, It is designed to outlast it's opponenets.
Appearance doesn&#8217;t tell us anything about its armor, and while it most certainly was designed to have a small profile, that doesn&#8217;t change the fact that its mass to length ratio is very low compared to most KDY dagger ships.
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Post by NecronLord » 2002-11-11 03:58pm

The thing that tells 'us' about the armour is the fact that in corss section the armour seems to be 10M or so thick and there are very few lights on the dorsal surface.
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Post by phongn » 2002-11-12 07:32pm

Sea Skimmer wrote:Mediator: 14,000 pts
Definance/MC 90: 11,500 pts
Defender: 30-40K
Um, didn't you put Home One as 25k points? The Mediator is probably a more powerful design, to say nothing of the Viscount.
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MKSheppard
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Found a possible game engine that actually works quite well.

Post by MKSheppard » 2002-11-13 01:48am

Multi-Platform too.....runs off Java, so be sure to downsample
your video depth from 24 bit 16.7M colors to 8-bit 256 colors when
playing it to get maximum speed (especially on old Pentium IIs)

http://www.vasl.org/vassal/

And yes, I've finally SETTLED on this engine....it has all the features I
want mostly, and I can even program it so that I can implement semi-3d
combat on 3 planes!

Best part is it runs on the following platforms:

Windows
If not already installed on your system, you must install the Java Runtime (JRE 1.4 recommended).

Macintosh OS X
Java is pre-installed with OS X.

Macintosh OS 8.1- 9.x
Requires MRJ 2.2.

Unix
This shell script will work on all Unix platforms.
Requires a Java Runtime (JRE 1.3 recommended).

Although when i sent this to phong, it Blue Screen of Death'ed his
XP install, the first time it ever happened to that install.....but for
some reason, it works fine with my WinME and 98SE PCs.....
"If scientists and inventors who develop disease cures and useful technologies don't get lifetime royalties, I'd like to know what fucking rationale you have for some guy getting lifetime royalties for writing an episode of Full House." - Mike Wong

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Sea Skimmer
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Post by Sea Skimmer » 2002-11-13 02:59pm

phongn wrote:
Sea Skimmer wrote:Mediator: 14,000 pts
Definance/MC 90: 11,500 pts
Defender: 30-40K
Um, didn't you put Home One as 25k points? The Mediator is probably a more powerful design, to say nothing of the Viscount.
Did I? We'll I do go on the idea that 29 batterys is a misprint and it should be 92. But that should be more like 20. However Mediator seems to be a big destroyer, so I'm rating it around a bit above the ISD II, perhapes it should b esomehwat more.

The Viscount Star Defender I'm rating as a small battleship, I dont see any problume there.
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— Field Marshal William Slim 1956

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