Dr Wily vs Dr Robotnik

Tatterdemalion · Post by **Tatterdemalion** » 2003-07-26 01:25am

After reading the robot masters thread I got bored out of my skull and decided to start a thread of my own:

A multidimensional rift teleports both Dr Wily (of megaman fame.) and Dr Robotnik (of the Sonic games.) onto a deserted, earth-like planet. They may take with them any equiptment/robots/weapons from any of their games, barring time-travel and inter-dimensional technology.

Assuming they want to kill each other, which mad scientist is first to fall?

Post by **Dalton** » 2003-07-26 02:43am

Robotnik, of course. He got taken down by a spinning blue rodent.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2003-07-26 02:50am

It sort of depends on the Robotnik. Robotnik runs the gambit from the crapulous Sonic the Hedgehog cartoon (bumbling moron that hung out with those two stupid robots) to the Robotnik of the SatAM cartoon (the cool, evil one that was actually a bit competant). The "Eggman" Robotnix was sort of a middle ground, with a vast army of easy to destroy robots and bigass funky war machines with a predecilection for giant checkered wrecking balls. Plus, over course, he's got the various MechaSonics, who are a pain in the ass.

Wily, on the other hand, is much easier to define. He's got a similarly vast supply of one hit to kill robots (hurray for Mettles!), plus those one eyed soldier robots with the shields and a bunch of funny large robots and minibosses (though he's seem to run out of ideas... in Rockman and Forte, he completely recycled his stuff from Megaman

. Not to mention many a skull themed flying contraption. But what is going to really decide this for him is what robot masters he packed in his luggage that week. Wily is well known for making stupid Robot Masters, but he's also produced some real winners, like Tenguman and Burnerman for instance, not to mention Forte, though I am hestitant to call him a winner since he's a whiny little prick.

Really, how I see it going down is that this is going to end up in a throwdown between Wily's good robot masters and MechaSonic. That would be an ugly fight, though it's not exactly clear how powerful MechaSonic is. If we were going game mechanics alone, I'd wager that some of Wily's better robot masters could clobber MechaSonic, but if we take cartoons into account, MechaSonic isn't just fast, he's fucking fast. There is a solution to this though for Wily, and that's to bring along Flashman, Brightman, and Centaurman, and freeze the speedy devil long enough to bust him up, or convince Astroman to stop pissing himself in fear long enough to use Astro Crush and just bomb the general area that MechaSonic is in.

Though for amusement, I think this should be settled by Wily getting into one of his skull flying contraptions, Robotnik getting into one of his flying contraptions and them just having a good old fashioned brawl. I think Wily would win this, since his machines usually aren't that sucky and only have small area where they can be hit (especially in the old NES Megaman games where the object detection sucked so hitting him in the glowing yellow spot doesn't guarantee a hit

).

Based on the game characters, I'm giving this to Wily, but not before Snakeman is dead in a crevasse somewhere due to his own lameness and Aquaman trying to have sex with the Death Eggs reactor and being vaporized.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2003-07-26 04:31am

Oh, and even though he's not in the classic Megaman series, Zero from the X series is a Wily robot and one that is significantly more powerful than any of the other Wily robots. If Wily can call upon anything he's ever built, he can technically sic Zero on Eggman and watch the carnage.

SAMAS · Post by **SAMAS** » 2003-07-26 07:51am

Sorry, but Zero's out in combat against the Badass Robotnik creation: Shadow.

Vendetta · Post by **Vendetta** » 2003-07-26 01:01pm

Eggman didn't create Shadow. He just found him.

Anyway, on the evidence presented in SAdv2, Eggman is just Wily in disguise.

1. They both try repeatedly to take over the world, essentailly using the same plan every time.

2. They both display great animosity towards the colour blue.

3. They both have mad facial hair, be it 'tash or eyebrows.

4. They both build legions of cannon fodder robots

5. Wily's letting the disguise slip, At the end of SAdv2, you have to fight all the bosses again. In order. Just like all Wily's other fortresses.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2003-07-26 03:44pm

Keep in mind that I've only played the Sonic games for Genesis and, oddly, Sonic CD (yes, one of my friends bought a Sega CD... thought it was the wave of the future

), but I've played all the Megaman games up to Rockman and Forte.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2003-07-26 04:31pm

Zero nails this one for Wily. Don't fuck with Zero. And don't criticize the hair.

SAMAS · Post by **SAMAS** » 2003-07-26 11:41pm

Vendetta wrote:Eggman didn't create Shadow. He just found him.

I never said anything about Eggman. But he was created by a Robotnik.

Eggman himself still has the Mecha/Metal Sonics, and the E-1000-series bots, like Gamma and Omega.

Anyway, on the evidence presented in SAdv2, Eggman is just Wily in disguise.

1. They both try repeatedly to take over the world, essentailly using the same plan every time.

Actually, Robotnik's had either a different scheme or different methods just about every time. The only real exception is Sonic 2/3/&Knuckles, and those were pretty much the same incedent.

2. They both display great animosity towards the colour blue.

Robotnik actually respects Sonic.

3. They both have mad facial hair, be it 'tash or eyebrows.

True.

4. They both build legions of cannon fodder robots

Well, a one-man job is never easy...

5. Wily's letting the disguise slip, At the end of SAdv2, you have to fight all the bosses again. In order. Just like all Wily's other fortresses.

Nope.

The Knuckles/Rouge fight only happened once.

The Sonic/Shadow battles were both fought under different circumstances.

Only the Tails/Eggman battles were similar, and in the last one, they stopped playing around and brought out the big guns.

Not to mention the total absense of the Egg Golem, Ghost, and G.U.N. Mecha battles.

Overall, I think Eggman is a better villian than Wily.

Eggman has never been afraid of being in the thick of battle. He always faced Sonic himself, rather than have his bots do all the dirty work for him. And in SAdv2, He has personally invaded G.U.N. headquarters, once volunteering himself as a distraction, drawing most of the fire while his partners did their thing. Eggman has never cowered in his fortress, with the same old schtick of giving his nemesis the opportunity to get stronger before finally facing him... eight-plus times straight.
As said before, Eggman shows respect for his little blue nemesis. He rarely underestimates Sonic, and has never given him a powerup, directly or no. The one time he really had the Hedgehog, he didn't just leave him unsupervised, he watched his little trap until the explosion finally disappated. The only thing that saved Sonic was the fact that Tails can make a really good facsimile of a Chaos Emerald.
And last but not least: Eggman can't escape from custody as well as Wily. Mostly because Eggman has never been caught in the first place.

Cal Wright · Post by **Cal Wright** » 2003-07-27 02:59am

Does Robotnik get the power of the Chaos emeralds? If so, then it's Eggman all the way.

Exonerate · Post by **Exonerate** » 2003-07-27 03:43am

Zero's lightsabre moves at lightspeed. So unless Shadow is fast enough to dodge that...

Though he does have long girl-like hair

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2003-07-27 04:17am

Exonerate wrote:Zero's lightsabre moves at lightspeed. So unless Shadow is fast enough to dodge that...

Though he does have long girl-like hair

There is a reason I refered to Zero as "she" for the longest time until I noticed they were all using the masculine pronoun when refering to him.

Exonerate · Post by **Exonerate** » 2003-07-27 04:19am

Gil Hamilton wrote:
Exonerate wrote:Zero's lightsabre moves at lightspeed. So unless Shadow is fast enough to dodge that...

Though he does have long girl-like hair
There is a reason I refered to Zero as "she" for the longest time until I noticed they were all using the masculine pronoun when refering to him.

When I played MegamanX when it first came out, and saw Zero, I was wondering whether "he" was male or female...

SAMAS · Post by **SAMAS** » 2003-07-27 07:21am

Exonerate wrote:Zero's lightsabre moves at lightspeed. So unless Shadow is fast enough to dodge that...

Since when?

On another note, Zero is going to be in the next Snk vs. Capcom game.

Vendetta · Post by **Vendetta** » 2003-07-27 10:10am

SAMAS wrote:The Knuckles/Rouge fight only happened once.

The Sonic/Shadow battles were both fought under different circumstances.

Only the Tails/Eggman battles were similar, and in the last one, they stopped playing around and brought out the big guns.

Not to mention the total absense of the Egg Golem, Ghost, and G.U.N. Mecha battles.

Sorry, should have been more specific.

Sonic Advance 2. You fight all the zone bosses again, in order, before the final boss.

Vendetta · Post by **Vendetta** » 2003-07-27 10:14am

Exonerate wrote:Zero's lightsabre moves at lightspeed. So unless Shadow is fast enough to dodge that...

Yup. Chaos Control.

Exonerate · Post by **Exonerate** » 2003-07-27 12:58pm

SAMAS wrote:
Exonerate wrote:Zero's lightsabre moves at lightspeed. So unless Shadow is fast enough to dodge that...
Since when?

On another note, Zero is going to be in the next Snk vs. Capcom game.

Its called a lightsabre for a reason. I read the mangas for X2-3, and it was specifically stated that the sword moved at lightspeed. Zero cut a guy in half, and he didn't even notice it.

Vendetta · Post by **Vendetta** » 2003-07-27 01:33pm

Exonerate wrote:
SAMAS wrote:
Exonerate wrote:Zero's lightsabre moves at lightspeed. So unless Shadow is fast enough to dodge that...
Since when?

On another note, Zero is going to be in the next Snk vs. Capcom game.
Its called a lightsabre for a reason. I read the mangas for X2-3, and it was specifically stated that the sword moved at lightspeed. Zero cut a guy in half, and he didn't even notice it.

Only it isn't, it's called the Zetsabre. (Z-Sabre)

Most recently by the Megaman Zero manual and game.

Exonerate · Post by **Exonerate** » 2003-07-27 01:40pm

Vendetta wrote:
Exonerate wrote:
SAMAS wrote: Since when?

On another note, Zero is going to be in the next Snk vs. Capcom game.
Its called a lightsabre for a reason. I read the mangas for X2-3, and it was specifically stated that the sword moved at lightspeed. Zero cut a guy in half, and he didn't even notice it.
Only it isn't, it's called the Zetsabre. (Z-Sabre)

Most recently by the Megaman Zero manual and game.

I stand corrected then. I don't really keep up anymore, since I lack the equipment to play X4 and above.

Cal Wright · Post by **Cal Wright** » 2003-07-27 02:33pm

Exonerate wrote: Its called a lightsabre for a reason. I read the mangas for X2-3, and it was specifically stated that the sword moved at lightspeed. Zero cut a guy in half, and he didn't even notice it.

Visuals over dialogue. In the games, Zero has NEVER moved the sword at light speed. The sword cannot possible move at the speed of light unless the wielder can swing it that fast. We know Zero isn't that fast, or X4 and X5 would have been a cakewalk.

Exonerate · Post by **Exonerate** » 2003-07-27 03:47pm

Cal Wright wrote:
Exonerate wrote: Its called a lightsabre for a reason. I read the mangas for X2-3, and it was specifically stated that the sword moved at lightspeed. Zero cut a guy in half, and he didn't even notice it.
Visuals over dialogue. In the games, Zero has NEVER moved the sword at light speed. The sword cannot possible move at the speed of light unless the wielder can swing it that fast. We know Zero isn't that fast, or X4 and X5 would have been a cakewalk.

I'll concede that the manga isn't exactly canon, but it is endored by Capcom, which at least gives it some level of authencity.

However, game mechanics still come into play. Marines were very large compared to Battlecrusiers in SC, but you don't see anybody claiming that BCs are only 6 times the size of Marines. And in the manga, there literally was no movement, it was just the other guy realizing he had been hit, then falling apart, thus no visual contradiction (At least in the manga)

Seggybop · Post by **Seggybop** » 2003-07-27 04:19pm

They almost always do that in Japanese anime/manga things where someone attacks with a sword-like weapon. They slash super fast and the guy is chopped before they know what happened. This is a stylistic thing and not an accurate depiction of what's going on. Besides, in the cutscenes of the actual games which are almost certainly the highest level, nothing is going at lightspeed.

Vendetta · Post by **Vendetta** » 2003-07-27 06:00pm

Comics based on games should definitely not be considered.

Especially not the Sonic comics, which should be piled up and burned.

Exonerate · Post by **Exonerate** » 2003-07-27 06:44pm

Seggybop wrote:They almost always do that in Japanese anime/manga things where someone attacks with a sword-like weapon. They slash super fast and the guy is chopped before they know what happened. This is a stylistic thing and not an accurate depiction of what's going on. Besides, in the cutscenes of the actual games which are almost certainly the highest level, nothing is going at lightspeed.

Actually, as I remember it, the attack wasn't shown at all. They're just talking, then suddenly the guy realizes what just happened, then splits in half from head to crotch. And it was specifically stated the sword moved at lightspeed.

As for cutscenes, I recall they were pretty much the same thing as the games in terms of graphics, sound, etc. I could be wrong, I never played past X5...

Hades · Post by **Hades** » 2003-07-29 08:45am

Gil Hamilton wrote: Plus, over course, he's got the various MechaSonics, who are a pain in the ass..

Hes actually called Metalix if i recall corectly (well the one from the Sonic CD game is)