FALLOUT 76

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bilateralrope
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Re: FALLOUT 76

Post by bilateralrope » 2018-06-15 10:16am

Lagmonster wrote:
2018-06-13 11:58am
I mean, it's what the masses love I guess,
I'm not sure it's what people want. But it's to see how "games as a service" are more profitable than single player games.

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Re: FALLOUT 76

Post by TheFeniX » 2018-06-15 01:53pm

PREDATOR490 wrote:
2018-06-11 08:31pm
Adding multiplayer just sounds like the run up to trying to edge into the online survival building game market which is simply not going to go well.
Your post is basically "I couldn't have said it better myself."

For my own note: let's take an RPG standard from the 90s, which (while admitted losing a lot of the RPG elements over the years) was continued into the 2000s, and remove all the RPG elements and make it a survival game aping all the other shitty survival MMOs out there and years past their expiration date. Let's face it: the genre is super saturated and Fallout has its name as a Single-player RPG. We'd all love co-op, but not this.

But hey, Beth has a great track record breaking into saturated multiplayer genres: look at Brink.......

The sad part is: Fallout is actually a GREAT setting for this time of game, but I have zero faith it will be anything more than a buggy cash-in with a Fallout skin. And with the always online, it's unlikely "mods will fix it" will fix it.

I still laugh that too this day Beth doesn't even understand Fallout, and has to go to a company like Obsidian to make an actual Fallout game.

EDIT: I should add, there's enough mindless Fallout fanboys to make this game a success even if it's a total trainwreck, outside technical issues. I have so little faith that I have to assume as long as the game FUNCTIONS, Beth will print money.

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Re: FALLOUT 76

Post by Lagmonster » 2018-06-16 07:05am

I don't really blame 'fanboys' for the success of franchises that have been tanked. Relatively tiny demo. I blame parents with disposable income who will never read a game review in their lives and just know that their kid 'liked the other one'. For the middle class, I can confirm that the cost of games in general is still *just* low enough that it registers as a financial break-even if it turns out to give at least six to eight hours of play. And that an unrelenting number of the parents in my neighbourhood will pre-order whichever game has the most ad posters in the EBgames store window. Non-gamer parents are notorious for poor consumer research habits, generally shopping on the theories that 'one shooting game is the same as any other really', and 'it's a popular series, right?'.

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Re: FALLOUT 76

Post by Mr Bean » 2018-06-16 08:46am

Lagmonster wrote: Non-gamer parents are notorious for poor consumer research habits, generally shopping on the theories that 'one shooting game is the same as any other really', and 'it's a popular series, right?'.
That last is a generational thing speaking from the most trustworthy of evidence... anecdotal experience, that this current generation (24 and below) even the most humble of house has some experience with video games even it's just cell phone games. In my own work dealing with people in person from various walks of life I keep hearing from 30-40 year old parents about how they just had a Super Nintendo or a Genesis or maybe a PlayStation and that's all they had till college meanwhile current generation Little Timmy had had his game console for awhile now and regularly watches XYZ Youtuber.

The encroachment of video games into every aspect of school life is all over the place unlike forty years ago when only the rich kids had their ColecoVision and Atari 2600, 30 years ago when we had our Super Nintendo and Genesis with all 15 add ons. Twenty years ago we were just shy of start of the Playstation 2 domination era and ten years ago gaming was hitting mainstream with the one hundred million Wii U's that were sold.

The era of the clueless mom and dad buying Murder Simulator 2000 fears from the 90s is almost done with, but of course we can always trust on Grandma to buy us Barbe Dream Adventurer 2010 because she found it on sale in Walmart for only 40$.

But that issue is ending.
Last edited by Mr Bean on 2018-06-16 08:46am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: FALLOUT 76

Post by TheFeniX » 2018-06-19 11:18am

Lagmonster wrote:
2018-06-16 07:05am
I don't really blame 'fanboys' for the success of franchises that have been tanked.
You are right in that I'm not doing a good job explaining the type of fanboy/girl I'm thinking about. Essentially, not the "Nirvana was better before Nevermind went mainstream" type of fanboy but the type who holds up Nirvana BECAUSE it's mainstream. I don't have any gamer friends, but man did fucking everyone text me about Fallout 76. Because Fallout is essentially dead. It's a brand, not a franchise. It's trendy. And I could forgive that, like I do with Elder Scrolls (even ESO) if they FELT like Fallout games rather than..... the Dungeon and Dragons movie.

I hate to be a little bitch-boy here and be "that guy," but I'm going to power through it because Bethesda doesn't actually KNOW anything about Fallout other than the thin veneer of what they took from the older games. Get ready, because I'm about to be that guy even I hate: The gore, the pop-culture, the 50s references. This IS Fallout to them. Much like, even though it's an enjoyable little game: Shadowrun Boston Lockdown is really not much of a Shadowrun game. It's a bunch of references to Shadowrun, with a skin on top, that just throws "Shadowrun shit" at you.

I've said this before, but you could reskin and redub Payday 2 into a Shadowrun game and it would feel more natural than any of the isometrics that have been released.

This is Fallout 3 and 4. 76 is likely going to be the same thing: it's Fallout because it has a few elements of Fallout in it: nukes, robits, rusted shit-piles of buildings. And I'd just shut my stupid mouth and admit "This is what Fallout is NOW" and deal if it weren't for New Vegas near perfectly capturing the feel of the Fallout 1 (and maybe even 2, but 2 also had issues being referential). The only real complaint is the aesthetic of New Vegas (the city itself): too much with the rusted out bullshit assets Beth's dev kit is chock full of and IIRC: Obsidian was told to not make things look "too clean" to keep with the Fallout Aesthetic (which to anyone who played the original would seen as moronic). New Vegas should have been much cleaner and more polished.

Anyways, this is all why Beth will continue to do rando shit with Fallout: they don't even know what it is, except an open-world RPG that many companies won't take a shot at. And this means they CAN do whatever they want with it and it will sell because the customer doesn't know (or care) what Fallout is.

My stupid rant aside, the fanboys come in because Fallout is a brand they are "required" to have, much like CoD, because it gives them their nerd cred which is why (IMO) Beth delivers in the Gore, juvenile humor, explosions, and not much else. New Vegas had that as well, but many other things on top of it.

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Re: FALLOUT 76

Post by Marko Dash » 2018-06-19 03:39pm

for me Fallout is a universe, like any other work of fiction. i like things that expand and flesh out these universes, witch is why i don't like that disney binned all the old EU from Star Wars.

as long as they don't pull too much microtransactionry bullshit like so many games are doing these days i'll have no trouble enjoying Fallout 76.
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Re: FALLOUT 76

Post by TheFeniX » 2018-06-19 04:37pm

I have this problem here because since Fallout 3: what has expanded? What has Beth done to build the Fallout universe? I enjoyed Fallout 3, but most of it was the crib notes from earlier Fallouts. It also took a hard-dump on a lot of established lore from earlier because they wanted "Fallout things" so they put in "Fallout things" with generally no explanation on why or how they got where they were. Super Mutants in D.C.? Needs an explanation, got none I can think of. What really did F3 do to expand any of the concepts of Fallout or even create new ones? The Brotherhood, Enclave, water purification, GECK, VATS. Really, Fallout 3 is noteworthy for successfully moving Fallout into FPS/TPS. But for the lore?

All I got is "Liberty Prime." Some of the DLCs did a bit better in this regard.

Fallout 4 added the Institute. The Railroad really deserves no mention here because a lot of their motivations are moronic and they're a one note joke. In fact, near the entirety of Fallout 4's new factions or ideas are in the vein of either "no thought put into the writing" or "moronic." The Institute itself has motivations that really hamper any credit given to an otherwise interesting faction. And the Brotherhood goes from tech scavengers to some kind of "less bad" Enclave who want to blow up the most technologically advanced center in the world because "reasons."

Even the Vaults became jokes. Sometimes literally in cases: "Hey, let's just do RANDOM and WACKY experiments on the survivors of nuclear holocaust because...... there is no because. Just fucking do it."

If Beth has added anything to the universe, it's just cobbled together ideas from Bladerunner and Fallout 1 and random stupid shit they thought would be funny. And Fallout was always kind of wacky, weird shit went on, but I never got the feeling the writers would explain something with the line "for teh lulz."

Now, just take a look at an area of New Vegas. One single-faction. One single area. New Vegas even manages to answer how New Vegas feeds itself, even if the engine couldn't support the scale of the endeavor they'd need.

And I can shit on the Elder Scrolls games for becoming derivative in the gameplay department, but their lore guys are on point. Skyrim alone dove into the concept of the Thume, Dragonborn, Altmer Supremacy (The Dominion), the eruption of the Red Mountain and the emigration of the Dunmer, the racism of the Nords clashing with said emigration. A whole civil war, cracks in the Empire. The list just goes on and on because Beth understands and writes what they want the Elder Scrolls universe to be. ESO gets some shit, but there's expansion there.

So, Beth can't really expand the Fallout Universe in a Core Fallout game. So then I ask: "What does Conan Exiles add to The Conan Universe?" Sure yea, there's some stuff about the Architects and the Sea People the Exiles came from. But that's it, nothing is fleshed out. How many of these "builder/survival" games expand on ANYTHING other than PvP shenanigans or base-building?

This shit is most likely to end up in the vein of the Metal Gear Survival game. Where fans are suckered into a derivative game, but with AAA polish (though with Beth, you never know how much, if any, polish you get) because of the Brand name.

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Re: FALLOUT 76

Post by LadyTevar » 2018-06-19 09:50pm

Either way... I went and pre-ordered. Couldn't get the REALLY NICE Marine helmet, but did get the "patriot pack", with BETA :-D
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Re: FALLOUT 76

Post by TheFeniX » 2018-06-20 12:14pm

I don't pre-order games after Brink. Star Trek Legacy was another (Beth) title that started me down that path before that. So, my argument doesn't have a lot of weight.

I would be leery (and avoid) pre-ordering anything out of Beth proper. Even many of their published games as they have some arcane contracts and have been noted to push release dates up out of nowhere. Forced to use Beth's broken and buggy version of the Gamebryo engine and develpment tools, Obsidian were able to make Beth a cool $300+ million in profits (in the first year IIRC alone) with New Vegas, but Obsidian lost their bonus because they were required to carry an 85 (IIRC) on Metacritic. They might have done so if not for near all the complaints being "the game is buggy and crashes a lot."

If I cared to, I might pre-order something they publish from id because id either just knows their shit that well and/or is able to negotiate in a way that keeps Beth from fucking things up too badly. But out of Beth proper? I'd expect a release trainwreck Beth is slow to fix and there's no modders able to patch what they won't or can't fix.

Though I hope I'm wrong and I AM very interested in seeing a multi-player implementation of the Creation Engine. Skyrim Together is still working on a completely vanilla implementation of co-op (no SKSE). It's possible since it's just an extension of Gamebryo and Rift was made using that. Though I'm laughing at the idea of Beth trying to implement netcode considering this will be their first multiplayer game they've developed. It's possible they're shifting some ZeniMax Online guys around or bringing in some talent, but on the hardware end, I wouldn't be surprised to see another Brink disaster.

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Re: FALLOUT 76

Post by Lagmonster » 2018-06-20 01:05pm

I'll probably give up and pre-order, because I have money and don't give a fuck about supporting standards since I just want base indulgences for a few minutes.

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Re: FALLOUT 76

Post by TheFeniX » 2018-06-20 01:17pm

I myself might wuss out since I don't boycott Beth. Which also makes me a hypocrit because I bought Farcry 5 on release day knowing only that it had co-op and the game was decently optimized. I wouldn't find out until loading that the game is actually a technical marvel considering the publisher as it can maintain 40FPS with all worthwhile settings on Ultra at 4K with a 980Ti.

That said, I'm also considering a pre-order because my wife has Amazon Prime for school and Fallout 76 is $48 with Prime. Though there would be little point if my buddy doesn't but it as I don't really game solo anymore. I would actually need to see more from the gameplay because I could just wait until the price drops further.

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Re: FALLOUT 76

Post by Enigma » 2018-07-04 02:37pm

Something has been rattling around in my head. "Country Roads", is that the song Merlin sang in Kingsman: Golden Circle?
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Re: FALLOUT 76

Post by Steel » 2018-07-04 07:15pm

Enigma wrote:
2018-07-04 02:37pm
Something has been rattling around in my head. "Country Roads", is that the song Merlin sang in Kingsman: Golden Circle?
Yes. I saw that same song in about 3 films in short succession (Kingsman, Logan lucky, and ... something else) and wondered why. All I could find was that there hadn't been a fire sale of the rights to it, the reason was just that a lot of creative directors who grew up liking it are all coming to the position where they can choose to put it in things. We may all become very sick of it in a the near future.
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Re: FALLOUT 76

Post by LadyTevar » 2018-07-05 10:39pm

Steel wrote:
2018-07-04 07:15pm
Enigma wrote:
2018-07-04 02:37pm
Something has been rattling around in my head. "Country Roads", is that the song Merlin sang in Kingsman: Golden Circle?
Yes. I saw that same song in about 3 films in short succession (Kingsman, Logan lucky, and ... something else) and wondered why. All I could find was that there hadn't been a fire sale of the rights to it, the reason was just that a lot of creative directors who grew up liking it are all coming to the position where they can choose to put it in things. We may all become very sick of it in a the near future.
NEVER!!! At least, never in the Mountain State. It's one of our State Songs.
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