Problems with metal laptop?

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Problems with metal laptop?

Post by Archinist » 2016-09-28 03:55pm

I have a metal laptop, it is obviously not completely made out of metal. Anyway, so I live somewhere which is very cold even in spring/summer, especially outside. Even with a heavy jacket it is not enough, as the jacket itself cools down in response to the cold air outside.

So when I'm outside I use a metal laptop as a small heater by running furmark and IBT on it. At first it was fine and only gave a few BSODs every 20 minutes or so, but now it's randomly 'losing power' very suddenly and without any warning. It just dies instantly. Now, at first I just thought it was too warm and let it rest for about 10 minutes in the freezing air.

But after 10 minutes or so, the metal was very cold to the touch, and I couldn't imagine the internals would be much different. But even then it wouldn't turn on, and I began to think that the battery was dead, so I plugged it in. It then turned on very easily and booted to Windows successfully. I removed the power cord and it still worked, and apparently had about 90% battery left. So I ran the IBT/FM again together, and after a few seconds, it lost power again.

I had to plug it in again for it to power up, and after unplugging it worked fine. Running IBT/FM also worked fine when plugged in, except for a consistent BSOD after about 15-25 minutes.

So is there a problem with the battery? I got it refurbished from eBay. Another thing worth mentioning is that one time (only once) I had fully charged it and was using it when it suddenly said I had less than 10% battery left, and apparently I only had about 5% battery. A few minutes later, it crashed without any error and had to be manually turned on and off three times before it booted normally and reported a full 95% charge. The LED-powered side battery checker also reported this things.

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Re: Problems with metal laptop?

Post by Borgholio » 2016-09-28 04:34pm

What is the text of the BSOD?
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Re: Problems with metal laptop?

Post by Elheru Aran » 2016-09-28 05:10pm

I think you fried the whole damn thing by deliberately running it hot. Laptops are not heaters.
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Re: Problems with metal laptop?

Post by Tribble » 2016-09-28 05:19pm

Couple of things:

What kind of temperatures are we talking about here? Generally speaking laptops are designed to operate from ~10C-35C or so. While most laptops should be able to operate at temperatures below freezing, there may be some issues:

The laptop will probably run slower than usual
The laptop screen may be dimmer than normal
The battery life will be significantly less than when it operates at normal temperatures

The biggest risk is condensation. If you bring a cold laptop inside or put it into your jacket or something, the difference in air temperature can potentially allow condensation to build up inside the laptop. This is why its usually advised to keep your laptop off until it warms up to its normal operating temperatures. Or if you must use a laptop outdoors in cold weather you should buy a laptop which has a built in heater.

I must ask: why are you using your laptop as a heater? Laptops are not designed to be heaters. If it's really an issue for you, just buy a heated jacket or something. I'm kind of surprised that your jackets aren't sufficient though - I have a couple of heavy duty jackets that handle -30C weather just fine. I am presuming of course that you are wearing a hat and gloves and/or your jacket has a hood - you jacket will not keep you warm if your head is exposed.
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Re: Problems with metal laptop?

Post by Elheru Aran » 2016-09-28 05:27pm

Remember that this is the guy who thinks that jackets make you *colder*...
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Re: Problems with metal laptop?

Post by Esquire » 2016-09-28 05:41pm

And with this thread, I become convinced that Archinist is in fact just screwing with us.
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Re: Problems with metal laptop?

Post by Archinist » 2016-09-28 06:09pm

Tribble wrote:Couple of things:

What kind of temperatures are we talking about here? Generally speaking laptops are designed to operate from ~10C-35C or so. While most laptops should be able to operate at temperatures below freezing, there may be some issues:

The laptop will probably run slower than usual
The laptop screen may be dimmer than normal
The battery life will be significantly less than when it operates at normal temperatures

The biggest risk is condensation. If you bring a cold laptop inside or put it into your jacket or something, the difference in air temperature can potentially allow condensation to build up inside the laptop. This is why its usually advised to keep your laptop off until it warms up to its normal operating temperatures. Or if you must use a laptop outdoors in cold weather you should buy a laptop which has a built in heater.

I must ask: why are you using your laptop as a heater? Laptops are not designed to be heaters. If it's really an issue for you, just buy a heated jacket or something. I'm kind of surprised that your jackets aren't sufficient though - I have a couple of heavy duty jackets that handle -30C weather just fine. I am presuming of course that you are wearing a hat and gloves and/or your jacket has a hood - you jacket will not keep you warm if your head is exposed.
I live in Australia, the temperature is nowhere near any less than 5C where I am. Usually it is just about 10-15C. Still, I get cold when not moving much and just sitting around. Even with a jacket on, the jacket gets colder and colder and colder, so I use the metal laptop to heat me up a bit, since the bottom gets so hot it can literally burn you.

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Re: Problems with metal laptop?

Post by Khaat » 2016-09-28 06:23pm

... Is the jacket sitting on the bench next to you, or have you tried putting it on?

here, try this: http://www.animations.physics.unsw.edu. ... iation.htm
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Re: Problems with metal laptop?

Post by Tribble » 2016-09-28 06:38pm

I live in Australia, the temperature is nowhere near any less than 5C where I am. Usually it is just about 10-15C.
I live in Toronto, where the average temperature is around -5-10C in the winter. We usually have at least one week where it dips below -20C which when combined with windchill means -35-40C or so. And this is fairly mild compared to most of Canada.

You will not that I am not dead and frozen solid. There are two reasons for this:

We have heaters in our homes, which we generally set to room temperature (20C or so)
We wear winter jackets, hats, gloves and boots when outdoors. These things keep us well insulated and alive. Again, I have multiple items of clothing that I have used while outdoors in -20C weather. You should be able to easily find some on ebay if you cannot find them locally.

Really though, 10-15C should not require winter grade clothing. That's springtime where I live. Wearing a regular jacket with a shirt should be more than sufficient, especially if you are only going outdoors for short periods of time. If you find you are still cold, then wear a hat - 20% of your body heat is lost through your head, and you "feel' it more than other areas.
Still, I get cold when not moving much and just sitting around.
Then.. move around a bit? You will generate more body heat while moving than sitting still. You're outside, right? Go for a walk. Or if you are reading and the temperature gets uncomfortable, go inside.
Even with a jacket on, the jacket gets colder and colder and colder
Jackets by their very nature are insulating - after your body has warmed the jacket up you will be warmer than if you are not wearing one. Wear a thicker jacket, or one with a material that's specifically designed to trap heat. Or wear layers - a shirt with a jacket, for example. For this temperature range I happen to have a spring jacket with a removable inner liner... in 10-15C I usually don't bother putting the liner in as the jacket is more than sufficient, but perhaps it could work for you nicely. And again, are you wearing a hat? That would help a lot.
so I use the metal laptop to heat me up a bit, since the bottom gets so hot it can literally burn you.
Jeez, I can't believe I actually have to say this, but...

Do not use a laptop as a heater. It is not designed to do that, and you'll burn it out. There are many other devices that will warm you better than a laptop will. Though in 10-15C weather they really shouldn't be needed.
Last edited by Tribble on 2016-09-28 06:42pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Problems with metal laptop?

Post by Archinist » 2016-09-28 06:39pm

Khaat wrote:... Is the jacket sitting on the bench next to you, or have you tried putting it on?
Yes I put it on. I have it on all the time when I'm outside and many times when I'm inside and with the electric heater running.

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Re: Problems with metal laptop?

Post by Khaat » 2016-09-28 06:48pm

In that case I strongly recommend layering your clothes (wear more than a shirt and jacket on your chest and arms) and wearing a hat (a beanie or ski cap). Layers are great: not only do they add layers of insulation from thermal loss ("getting cold"), but they can be shed in stages, so it's not all-or-none. Provided you're a mammal (a wild stab in the dark, I know!) you should naturally warm the layer of air between you and your clothes and stay warm.

If you're sitting on a bench, take something (cloth, like a scarf or blanket) to sit on - ta-da! Cloth, saving unwanted thermal loss through conduction and radiation.
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Re: Problems with metal laptop?

Post by Tribble » 2016-09-28 07:00pm

Khaat wrote:In that case I strongly recommend layering your clothes (wear more than a shirt and jacket on your chest and arms) and wearing a hat (a beanie or ski cap). Layers are great: not only do they add layers of insulation from thermal loss ("getting cold"), but they can be shed in stages, so it's not all-or-none. Provided you're a mammal (a wild stab in the dark, I know!) you should naturally warm the layer of air between you and your clothes and stay warm.

If you're sitting on a bench, take something (cloth, like a scarf or blanket) to sit on - ta-da! Cloth, saving unwanted thermal loss through conduction and radiation.
Agreed. And if layers are too much of a hassle for you, you can always buy a jacket with removable layers built in. Like I said, I have a spring jacket with a thinsulate inner lining, and it works quite well from 0C-20C. In 10-15C I take the lining out as its too hot for me, but perhaps you could use something like that and keep the lining in. And wear a hat. While still wearing a shirt, pants, underwear, socks, and shoes of course.

The only reasons why I can think you would still be cold in 10-15C weather despite wearing clothing are:

you are not wearing the appropriate clothing, or not wearing them properly
You have really poor blood circulation, and should go see a doctor
you are not human and are some cold blooded animal (reptile perhaps?) That would explain why you live in Australia. And why your response tend to be... different than one would expect.
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Re: Problems with metal laptop?

Post by Bernkastel » 2016-09-29 07:23am

The last one does seem really likely.

Seriously, not only are laptops not designed to heat a person, but they also have a cooling system. As people other than Archinist, such as eight year olds, might guess from that, a laptop isn't meant to get hot and it's meant to be used as a laptop, not a heater.

Here's a bit of advice, Archinist. When something is designed specifically with a system to keep it cool and stop it from overheating, you really should not try to overheat it anyway. Yeah, it sounds crazy, but you should really consider it.
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Re: Problems with metal laptop?

Post by Iroscato » 2016-09-29 08:21am

Archinist wrote:
Khaat wrote:... Is the jacket sitting on the bench next to you, or have you tried putting it on?
Yes I put it on. I have it on all the time when I'm outside and many times when I'm inside and with the electric heater running.
Next question: are you only wearing a jacket? Their purpose is somewhat defeated if you're otherwise bollock-naked.
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Re: Problems with metal laptop?

Post by General Zod » 2016-09-29 11:11am

They actually do sell jackets with a built in heating system. They might run you a few hundred dollars but it's a sight better than trying to repurpose your laptop.
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Re: Problems with metal laptop?

Post by Dalton » 2016-09-29 01:28pm

Archinist, please give me one reason I shouldn't ban you for being an obvious troll.
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Re: Problems with metal laptop?

Post by Archinist » 2016-09-29 02:05pm

Dalton wrote:Archinist, please give me one reason I shouldn't ban you for being an obvious troll.
I'm not trolling. I'm genuinely asking a question. The computer in question has ventilation ports at the bottom which expel hot air and cause the bottom to heat up when the computer itself is hot and overheated.

Since the computer is one of those 'ultrathin' laptops, it doesn't do a very good job of cooling anything down and therefore overheats. The question I'm asking here is whether the battery is faulty or not, since it has been behaving worse since the last few weeks.

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Re: Problems with metal laptop?

Post by Tribble » 2016-09-29 02:17pm

Archinist wrote:
Dalton wrote:Archinist, please give me one reason I shouldn't ban you for being an obvious troll.
I'm not trolling. I'm genuinely asking a question. The computer in question has ventilation ports at the bottom which expel hot air and cause the bottom to heat up when the computer itself is hot and overheated.

Since the computer is one of those 'ultrathin' laptops, it doesn't do a very good job of cooling anything down and therefore overheats. The question I'm asking here is whether the battery is faulty or not, since it has been behaving worse since the last few weeks.
Assuming you are being serious , IMO the battery was not faulty. The problem almost certainly lies with your asinine decision to deliberately overheat the laptop to use it as a heater. If this problem is persistent you have likely damaged some of the components. The blame rests on you and not the manufacturer.
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Re: Problems with metal laptop?

Post by Napoleon the Clown » 2016-09-29 02:20pm

Archinist wrote:I'm not trolling. I'm genuinely asking a question. The computer in question has ventilation ports at the bottom which expel hot air and cause the bottom to heat up when the computer itself is hot and overheated.

Since the computer is one of those 'ultrathin' laptops, it doesn't do a very good job of cooling anything down and therefore overheats. The question I'm asking here is whether the battery is faulty or not, since it has been behaving worse since the last few weeks.
This thread, in addition to nearly every other thread you've posted, reeks of trolling because every decision involved in them is incredibly stupid. It's pretty incredible that someone who makes such moronic posts will be able to be any semblance of articulate, and yet you have fairly good command of the basic rules of English.


I'm gonna just pretend, for now, that this thread is serious: Chronic overheating of your laptop has damaged important components. More than the battery is fucked. A laptop is not a space heater, they don't like being hot. Now go see a doctor, because if you're freezing to death at 10 degrees C there's something seriously wrong with your health.
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Re: Problems with metal laptop?

Post by Zixinus » 2016-09-29 02:42pm

So when I'm outside I use a metal laptop as a small heater by running furmark and IBT on it.
And this is where you did something terribly stupid.

Electronics give heat as a waste process and are usually designed to avoid that. Increase the heat production and the lifespan of electronics will rapidly decrease and the likelihood of failure within a component will increase. That's why overclocking is a bad idea (in general) and why overclockers create ridiculous heat rigs. They are trying to compensate for all the extra heat.
At first it was fine and only gave a few BSODs every 20 minutes or so, but now it's randomly 'losing power' very suddenly and without any warning.
That you got BSODs is usually the first sign that you are doing something terribly wrong. That you continued when the battery obviously died/failed tells me that you are stupid enough for me not to try help you.

Yes, you fried your battery. High heat can do that. At the very least you will need to buy a new battery. I'd also advise you to bring your laptop to some sort of computer repair to re-paste everything and check fan work. You should get some sort of temperature monitoring software and do the opposite of what you do now.

I wish I could be forgiving, but frankly you brought this on yourself. It would have been far more efficient for you to have just put on more clothes, or if you are feeling expensive, some electric heater pads or something but no, you had to use the goddamn computer. Also, that the laptop is metal tells me that you brought a high-quality model.
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Re: Problems with metal laptop?

Post by Archinist » 2016-09-29 02:44pm

Napoleon the Clown wrote:
Archinist wrote:I'm not trolling. I'm genuinely asking a question. The computer in question has ventilation ports at the bottom which expel hot air and cause the bottom to heat up when the computer itself is hot and overheated.

Since the computer is one of those 'ultrathin' laptops, it doesn't do a very good job of cooling anything down and therefore overheats. The question I'm asking here is whether the battery is faulty or not, since it has been behaving worse since the last few weeks.
This thread, in addition to nearly every other thread you've posted, reeks of trolling because every decision involved in them is incredibly stupid. It's pretty incredible that someone who makes such moronic posts will be able to be any semblance of articulate, and yet you have fairly good command of the basic rules of English.


I'm gonna just pretend, for now, that this thread is serious: Chronic overheating of your laptop has damaged important components. More than the battery is fucked. A laptop is not a space heater, they don't like being hot. Now go see a doctor, because if you're freezing to death at 10 degrees C there's something seriously wrong with your health.
Laptops are not supposed to overheat without modifying any of the components. I have no modified anything whatsoever, everything is completely factory-standard. Running IBT and FM is just as far as I know stressing the microchips to their factory maximum, which could also happen from everyday use. If the machine overheats significantly during daily use then there is a problem with the machine itself.

Also, the machine gave BSODs when I first got it, so those are definitely not my fault, and it only loses power randomly when it is running from the battery, never while plugged in. I doubt it would damage anything else. The laptop is also run in a well-ventilated outdoor environment, so no problems there either.

The battery is not 'fried', as it still works well most of the time unplugged. It is just when running intensive programs that it shuts off on battery power, as this is a thing it did not previously do.

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Re: Problems with metal laptop?

Post by Iroscato » 2016-09-29 02:48pm

Just buy a heater for outdoors, you twit. How much did the laptop - which you've apparently functionally wrecked due to your own stupidity - cost you, exactly?
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Re: Problems with metal laptop?

Post by Zixinus » 2016-09-29 03:06pm

Out of curiosity, what is this IBT and FM software you are running?
Laptops are not supposed to overheat without modifying any of the components. I have no modified anything whatsoever, everything is completely factory-standard. Running IBT and FM is just as far as I know stressing the microchips to their factory maximum, which could also happen from everyday use. If the machine overheats significantly during daily use then there is a problem with the machine itself.
And you respond with stupidity, giving more and more credence that you are in fact actually a very clever troll.

In case, you are really this stupid, let me spell it out for you: the laptop designers have not intended the laptop to serve as a heater. They did not anticipate that you would do such a stupid thing. They expected the laptop to have spikes of maximum load, not be continuously rigged to run like that. That's not everyday use. Thus your problems.

Most household appliances that has electronics and/or moving parts are not designed for continuous operation at maximum load (that's what industrial-grade machines are for). They are meant to be used in bursts of various performance levels rather than at maximum performance all the time. That is the difference between heavy use and normal use. Something you use heavily will wear out faster than what you use normally. Computers are included. Even when you remove planned obsolescence and other such things out of the picture, they will not last forever. Electronic can and will brake down. That you abused your computer made sure that it happened sooner than later.

I would not be surprised if you didn't set a maximum fan profile to prevent the build-up of heat and I would even be less surprised if you did something like block the vent so it would better heat you.

You just spent the cost of your laptop (considering it's made out of metal, it's probably a higher quality one), or the very least its battery, for the price of $40 rechargable pocket heater. Congratulations.
Last edited by Zixinus on 2016-09-29 03:13pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Problems with metal laptop?

Post by Iroscato » 2016-09-29 03:12pm

Zixinus wrote:Out of curiosity, what is this IBT and FM software you are running?
Furmark is a program literally built to stress-test computers by overheating them. IBT appears to be some automated financial trading app.

So Arky basically went out of his way to actually overheat his laptop rather than put on a few more layers. Assuming this really happened, this is...astounding.
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