World of Warcraft: Legion

[TheFeniX]

And it's not really CRZ in of itself. It's the "sharding" business they can and will do sometimes. I, obviously, don't fully understand the system, but I no longer seem "homed" on Nazjatar. As, joining/leaving a group with a buddy on the same server can and almost always does "phase" me. All other players blink out, and new ones zone in.

This happens even across characters. My DK could see and interact with Robs horde DH in Dal. So, I logged my DH to show him how to talk cross-faction with DHs. He wasn't there. Then I logged for a bit back to my DK, came back to my DH, he was there.

They seem to be lumping characters into shards based on performance or randomness. Such as, at one point: Hellheim was fully CRZed with multiple servers. It was terrible. Now in many Broken Isle zones, I will only see people I "should" see: Naz, Manno, BloodF. As these are all part of my server group. However, I tend to see people from other server in more "neutral" areas, such as flight path areas where the factions tend to "meet up." Valisdall is a good example: ten feet away, I see only people in my server group. But in that area, I see all sorts of -notmyserver.

CRZ only really affects PvE players when it comes to skinning and the mining of mobs. Other than that, it's not a huge deal to them in at level areas. For PvP realms, the shit should be off. Period. And I should never be matched with PvE players because that defeats the entire fucking purpose of me being on a PvP server: anyone can attack me and vice versa.

[bilateralrope]

I can only comment based on my experience with Guild Wars 2 doing something similar. But my guesses would be that each zone has a maximum number of players it can support. If there are two many players wanting to go into that zone than the number of instances of it can support, a new instance is created for them.

If you try to travel to someone who is in a full instance, WoW can not put you there. The only options are:
- Existing instance that isn't full
- Create a new instance.

This happens even across characters. My DK could see and interact with Robs horde DH in Dal. So, I logged my DH to show him how to talk cross-faction with DHs. He wasn't there. Then I logged for a bit back to my DK, came back to my DH, he was there.

It could be that the instance he was in was full when you tried loading your DH. But someone had left by the time you tried again.

And it's not really CRZ in of itself. It's the "sharding" business they can and will do sometimes. I, obviously, don't fully understand the system, but I no longer seem "homed" on Nazjatar. As, joining/leaving a group with a buddy on the same server can and almost always does "phase" me. All other players blink out, and new ones zone in.

That phasing sounds like you're being shifted from one instance to another. Maybe each instance has a target population that's lower than the max population. When you leave the group, you get phased into a lower population instance. Probably so that there is room for people joining groups to be phased into that groups instance.

[TheFeniX]

Yea, Star Trek Online was a good example of "Sharding" or "instancing." It was one huge mega-server instanced to high hell (which was not a problem). Since that game lacked non-instanced PvP nor had much of a loot system it was even LESS a problem. But at no point should I ever NOT be able to see someone on my home server with the current WoW system, yet this happens more often than it should (though it seems to have been mostly fixed at this point).

Fuck your sharding, Naz has like 10 people on the server, I'd like to see them all.

And when the training wheels are pulled off, the failures of CRZ become immediately apparent as low-pop and and/or balanced-faction servers are thrown in with heavily biased server groups, such as Cho'Gall which is heavily Horde favored based on the info I found. This is what drove me up the wall in Hellheim the first time through and why the Legion pre-Expansion Invasions were a fucking joke. Horde players dealing with CRZ have posted about the same thing.

The Naz/Manno/BF server group is actually VERY balanced if not a little slanted toward the Alliance. But we are routinely dumped with Cho'Gall and Burning Blade. I've read posts on the forum from other players (both factions) talking about the same thing: The server group merges worked fine, but Blizzard is still fixing them until they break again. They end up seeing nothing but red with a few green splorches here and there. Those green splorches turn into gray splatters very quickly.

There seems to be no rhyme or reason to who gets into whatever shard. So you can be routinely thrown in against 20 to 1 odds. And even on PvE servers, this can be a huge problem since even though they can't gank you: the open tag system is still Faction specific aside from bosses.

The only way to "win" at this is to be on a large pop realm where your faction is dominate. I dealt with this shit in SWTOR already.

The community answer is "PvP happened scrub" and Blizzards answer is silence. Me, I'm pissed because the agreement I made when I rolled on a PvP server had changed and in such a long stretch of time that I do not want to move all my alts and HOPE I find another server I like. This would be like if..... Unknown Worlds pulled it's dedicated server files for Natural Selection 2 and only let the game be played through Matchmaking: there would be a riot. But Blizzard does it and there's enough people on the "winning side" of CRZ/Sharding to brow-beat any players who complain.

Meanwhile, a Warlock complains on the forum about how he was actioned for Banishing a World Boss a few times to fuck with the faction that was ganking him. Even though there was a definite PvP solution (30 Alliance vs 1 Horde Lock), it was viewed as Zone Disruption. Meanwhile, you can corpse camp a PvP player for hours from a PvE server and "business as usual."

Oh and about that Zul'Jin asshole ganker? Zul'Jin is a PvE server. I like WPvP, but I wouldn't cry one fucking tear if it was patched out tomorrow with the exception of very specific areas with huge warnings. Like, "THIS IS A PVP WORLD QUEST zone: GTFO now if you want."

[Grumman]

The bad news is that Blizzard continues to be amazingly good at giving me reasons not to give them money. Today's annoyance is the discovery after paying an NPC literally all my money to disable XP gain so that Blizzard would not put the character behind a paywall if I subscribed and it hit level 21 by accident, that doing so disables instanced PvP. So now I probably have to pay all my money again to "reenable" XP gain even though I still won't be able to gain XP, just because Blizzard saw it as another opportunity to crap on free players.

I thought disabling XP put you into the "twink" bracket.

Not on a Starter account. And to add injury to more injury, I can't turn it off. I pay the NPC to reenable XP gain and he takes my money but then doesn't do anything. So my strongest character is locked out of PvP, until I find some medium through which I can communicate with Blizzard's support staff.

[Broomstick]

Or maybe they limit what can be done with a free account because they want you to subscribe to their game...?

Because Blizzard sets the rules here, they really do. If you don't like their rules you are free to go elsewhere but they do not, in fact, have to accommodate your desire to play for free. They are not "crapping" on free players, playing for free is something that wasn't even offered for most of WoW's existence, and when they did initially allow it, it was promptly abused by gold farmers, cheaters, and other sorts which is why many of the limitations of free accounts were imposed.

One of the limitations initially was that free accounts were capped at level 20 - is that still the case? Because if you're at level 20 and on a free account that's as high as you go until you start paying a monthly fee. If you don't want to pay that fee that's your choice, but Blizzard doesn't have to give you more than they already have.

(If you can come up with about 35k-40k in-game gold you can actually use that to pay your monthly fee - I haven't paid real money to Blizzard for nearly a year now because I know how to make gold in-game. Even with that monthly drain my main character has 235k gold right now. But it would probably take a couple months of paying real money to get to the level and circumstances to generate that sort of in-game cash flow. There are on-line guides how to make money in-game, though, if you really want to pursue that alternative.)

I have been playing WoW since about 5 or 6 months after it initially came out. While I have not always had my questions answered as quickly as I have liked I have always received some sort of reply within 3-4 days at most. Then again, I am a paying customer and money does talk.

I've never had a free account - can you use the in-game customer service feature or not with those? I think, a long time ago, we've contacted Blizzard via e-mail outside the game and maybe even by phone once, but going through the forums is pretty useless for solving a problem.

[Grumman]

Or maybe they limit what can be done with a free account because they want you to subscribe to their game...?

No, I'm talking about a bug, not a deliberate design decision. Blizzard deliberately made the choice that people on Starter Accounts could turn on or off the Experience Eliminator. But at level 20 you can pay to turn on the (redundant) Experience Eliminator, but you can't turn it off - the game takes your gold and then does nothing. If it was a deliberate choice, it was a choice that was made only to punish people who use the Experience Eliminator at the Starter Account level cap, and the only people who would do that are the people who want to stop being free players and start giving Blizzard money - the people who you should least want to fuck over for petty reasons.

[bilateralrope]

Why would anyone want to stop earning XP before max level ?

Calling it redundant sounds like people on free accounts stop earning xp at level 20. Which makes sense, as that's max level for those players.

So my guess is that it's a bug that's lasted a while because few people use the eliminator in the first place and fewer still turn XP gain back on again.

[Broomstick]

There are people who make what are called "twinks". The PvP is broken into brackets for the instanced PvP. So, there's a level 20-29 bracket so on the Battlegrounds you don't have a level 20 character going up against a level 100 character because a level 100's body odor would probably kill a level 20. Some people enjoy staying within a particular bracket and maximizing their PvP performance at the top of that particular bracket. In the old day such people had to be very, very careful about what they did with their "twinks" because they could accidently gain experience under some circumstances that would put them into the bottom of the next bracket with no way to roll back to where they were.

Eventually, Blizzard gave you the ability to turn off experience accumulation which made those folks very happy.

Additionally, some people like to go through all the content at the "proper" level. So, they do all the level 20-25 content at that level. But, due to the extent of the world at this point, and also because they reduced the required experience to level up, that was impossible unless you were able to turn off the point accumulation. So, although this was developed to make a certain part of the PvP guys happy it had the happy side effect of making yet another group of players happy. Among this group are people on free accounts who don't want to rush through the sub-set of content available to them too quickly, hence, free accounts can turn off XP if they want to do so.

[bilateralrope]

There are people who make what are called "twinks". The PvP is broken into brackets for the instanced PvP. So, there's a level 20-29 bracket so on the Battlegrounds you don't have a level 20 character going up against a level 100 character because a level 100's body odor would probably kill a level 20. Some people enjoy staying within a particular bracket and maximizing their PvP performance at the top of that particular bracket. In the old day such people had to be very, very careful about what they did with their "twinks" because they could accidently gain experience under some circumstances that would put them into the bottom of the next bracket with no way to roll back to where they were.

Does this include those twinks using gear that was acquired using a different, higher levelled, character ?

Which was not good for the health of the low level PvP arenas in Guild Wars 1.

Additionally, some people like to go through all the content at the "proper" level. So, they do all the level 20-25 content at that level. But, due to the extent of the world at this point, and also because they reduced the required experience to level up, that was impossible unless you were able to turn off the point accumulation. So, although this was developed to make a certain part of the PvP guys happy it had the happy side effect of making yet another group of players happy. Among this group are people on free accounts who don't want to rush through the sub-set of content available to them too quickly, hence, free accounts can turn off XP if they want to do so.

That's a good reason. Being over-levelled for content gets boring quickly.

[Broomstick]

Does this include those twinks using gear that was acquired using a different, higher levelled, character ?

Some twink owners have a higher level character with more gold or the ability to craft armor or weapons or other items, but a level 29 twink can't use any item intended for level 30 or higher. Many of the highest quality items for a level 29 character have to be acquired by that particular character because they can't be transferred between characters even on the same account. So you will never get a level 29 twink using level 50 armor, as an example.

Twinks are typically very well equipped for their level, but they and their gear are still at that level.

[Civil War Man]

(If you can come up with about 35k-40k in-game gold you can actually use that to pay your monthly fee - I haven't paid real money to Blizzard for nearly a year now because I know how to make gold in-game. Even with that monthly drain my main character has 235k gold right now. But it would probably take a couple months of paying real money to get to the level and circumstances to generate that sort of in-game cash flow. There are on-line guides how to make money in-game, though, if you really want to pursue that alternative.)

He wouldn't be able to do that, since the Starter Edition has a cap of 10 gold per character. It is physically impossible to get onto the WoW token train without paying real money long enough to set up a gold generating machine like you have, even if we ignore the logistical hurdles where the most efficient sources of gold are from content beyond the SE's level cap.

Twinks are typically very well equipped for their level, but they and their gear are still at that level.

It has been a while since I played, but if I remember correctly, a lot of the best geared twinks tend to be decked out in as many heirlooms as possible, since many, if not all, are overstatted until you hit their max level. Many also pair them with enchants that are intended for higher levels but work on low-level weapons like Crusader or Mongoose (at least in PvE and non-instanced PvP, since I've heard that weapon enchants are disabled in BGs and arenas now, much to the misery of DKs everywhere since runeforges were disabled along with them).

[Broomstick]

(If you can come up with about 35k-40k in-game gold you can actually use that to pay your monthly fee - I haven't paid real money to Blizzard for nearly a year now because I know how to make gold in-game. Even with that monthly drain my main character has 235k gold right now. But it would probably take a couple months of paying real money to get to the level and circumstances to generate that sort of in-game cash flow. There are on-line guides how to make money in-game, though, if you really want to pursue that alternative.)

He wouldn't be able to do that, since the Starter Edition has a cap of 10 gold per character. It is physically impossible to get onto the WoW token train without paying real money long enough to set up a gold generating machine like you have, even if we ignore the logistical hurdles where the most efficient sources of gold are from content beyond the SE's level cap.

Well, yes, hence the need to pay the subscription fee for several months before moving to pay for the game via in-game gold.

You can thank the gold farmers for the low-level gold cap on free characters. Hey, I'd be OK with raising that to 100 or even 1,000 but it's not my choice. Either way, you wind up having to pay and "entry fee" for higher game levels. That's not a bug, it's a feature.

[TheFeniX]

It has been a while since I played, but if I remember correctly, a lot of the best geared twinks tend to be decked out in as many heirlooms as possible, since many, if not all, are overstatted until you hit their max level. Many also pair them with enchants that are intended for higher levels but work on low-level weapons like Crusader or Mongoose (at least in PvE and non-instanced PvP, since I've heard that weapon enchants are disabled in BGs and arenas now, much to the misery of DKs everywhere since runeforges were disabled along with them).

They disabled Rune Forges is BGs? Ha, oh man.

Heirlooms are in a funny spot. They are technically Rare statted gear for a particular level. This can lead to some weird instances of static Rare gear blowing them out of the water for 1-2 levels until your stat growth for another level kicks in. This could be because some instanced gear is statted for a higher level but you can equip it because it's soulbound and blizz didn't care. I noticed that heirlooms in WoD were awful compared to what dropped, especially in Skyreach, since that one dungeon lasted like 4 levels. I would assume if you hit max level for a given expansion and farmed the Heroic Raid gear, you'd be way above the stats of looms until (more than) a few level. Since my MoP Raid Geared DK didn't equip a damn thing from WoD till like level 95-98 depending.

They fixed Twinks running raids with guildies for gear by putting your 60s,70,80s, etc into the lowest of the next bracket, instead of the high bracket. But in sub 60 PvP, at least when I bothered with it: Heirlooms were BiS with the exception of a few BoE and/or Epic drops for that same level. There was some Epic BoE dagger Twink Rogues lusted for. I know because I got one and it sold for like 3k back when that meant something.

Used to be enchanting an Heirloom and sending it to an alt meant that enchant didn't function until you hit the right level. I believe this was to fix a "bug" where certain high-level trash weapons could support high-level enchants. This didn't matter because you had to be a certain level to even equip it. But there was a time... in LK I think, where a Grey 2H sword was worth thousands because it had no level equip on it. So, you could put something like that OP bleed enchant on it and give it to a lowbie. The weapon still did next to no damage, but the enchant proc would kill nearly anyone not near max level. Blizz also just made enchants scale as you leveled.

Eventually, Blizzard gave you the ability to turn off experience accumulation which made those folks very happy.

Actually, there was some blowback because (no clue if it still holds true) this put you into "Twink Queues." Low level PvP brackets were dominated by twinks going back to when I started the game. You'd end up fighting Rogues with sometimes double the HP of your prot specced tank with "decent" gear for the level. Blizz killed two birds with one stone: the Twinks got to stay Twinks but normal people just looking for a fun diversion (or a way to alternatively level as PvP used to give good XP) no longer had to get rolled by uber-geared people at their level. It was essentially what end-game PvP is/was: fresh max-levels are meat for the grinder until they get their own gear.

[Civil War Man]

They disabled Rune Forges is BGs? Ha, oh man.

From what I hear this is a bug, but at the same time, as Blizzard is wont to do when a bug results in a spec being underpowered, none of the devs seem to be in a rush to fix it.

It's one of the problems that's been lost in the shuffle a bit, because it only affects a fairly minor aspect of the game (shots fired), and it disproportionately affects Frost (since they lose the runeforge on both weapons and it renders one of their otherwise better talents AND one of their already lackluster artifact traits completely worthless in PvP), which already has a laundry list of bigger problems.

[Lord Revan]

From what I've heard Frost spec for DKs is pretty much broken so badly it's useless for anything, which if true is a shame as it's my preferred DK spec.

[TheFeniX]

From what I hear this is a bug, but at the same time, as Blizzard is wont to do when a bug results in a spec being underpowered, none of the devs seem to be in a rush to fix it.

It's funny that I picked, literally, the two worst DPS specs (aside from Warlocks as a whole), to "main" this expansion even if I don't care to raid anymore. The problem with both Frost DK and Fury Warrior is that Unholy and Arms (respectively) are both solid DPS specs, so Blizzard ain't got no fucks to give. Add in that both are very good PvP specs as well and I doubt Blizzard will fix it in any given amount of time.

It's one of the problems that's been lost in the shuffle a bit, because it only affects a fairly minor aspect of the game (shots fired), and it disproportionately affects Frost (since they lose the runeforge on both weapons and it renders one of their otherwise better talents AND one of their already lackluster artifact traits completely worthless in PvP), which already has a laundry list of bigger problems.

Frost hasn't been all that viable in PvP for a while and I can't imagine it doing anything now that presences are gone and mobility for DK is at an all-time low. I mean, even when Frost was "viable," you spent 90% of your time in a BG in either Blood Presence or in the respawn queue.

From what I've heard Frost spec for DKs is pretty much broken so badly it's useless for anything, which if true is a shame as it's my preferred DK spec.

It's hilarious because, while this is completely true, it's also completely untrue. You could probably get into Mythic Dungeon queues as Frost fairly easily since they (freezer)burn trash like a champ. The amount of cleave they have picked up is pretty crazy. And since the trash tends to slow Mythics groups down more than the bosses, barring them finding a better class, such as how Havoc DH burn trash very well AND have more than solid ST DPS, some of the people I've talked to have no issues Group Finding Mythic dungeons as Frost DK.

Remorseless Winter (an iconic ability turned into a pathetic AOE cooldown) combined with FrostScthye has you topping damage meters easily.

But the ST nerf is pretty bad, and really that's only because the fights go on so long. In short sprints, Frost and even Fury put up big numbers. Just like Retadins can. But as the fight drags on, they bottom out and you find yourself with nothing left to do but auto-attack (or in Fury's case, continue to do your rotation for little damage). Combining that with the complete removal of Frost DK utility and self-sustain (Anti-Magic Shell has been beaten so badly with the nerf bat, even the tooltip can't be bothered to explain what it actually does and not being able to tank big mechanics in Blood presence.......), it's a garbage spec.

I dove headfirst into Sindragosa's Fury on my Frost Artifact. Don't care how bad of an idea that is, because it's a cool ability. Hit's for like 300k.... on a FIVE. Fucking. Minute. Cooldown. Meanwhile, Arthas gets it as his ultimate and it's up every 100 seconds. Fucking Arthas.

[Grumman]

I'll soon be joining you in Frost DKness, Fenix. The movie was just released on DVD here in Australia, and it came with the same free WoW offer as watching in cinemas. I tried DK out on PTR before Legion, and Frost definitely feels the most thematically appropriate: the Alliance should only have accepted you back because you're showing remorse for what you were forced to do under Arthas's thrall so ix-nay on the ombies-zay.

[TheFeniX]

Holy shit, son. So, already dealing with the damage/healing nerf across the board for tanks. Doing a WQ, this Ret pally with 1.7mil HP picks a fight, so "Hella fucking geared" (he was 844, with multiple PvP pieces). As Ret actually (on paper) seems like it would be strong against a DH, I figure may as well give it a go. My 2.5 million HP starts evaporating immediately. I'm still doing ok because I opened hard and got a lot of shards out. Shards that could have healed me for like 50% of my HP when combined with a Cleave. They're healing me for next to nothing. The only reason this is even a fight is because... .hell, I don't even know why. What I do know is that after I die and check the combat log, I can't think of anything other than an auto-attack that was hitting me for less than 500k. Sure, I've got an ability that will crit for even more than that: it's on a 60 second CD.

So, I let it go and move on with my life even though I rarely lose a 1vs1 match out in the world. Seriously, open world PvPers are so used to a one-sided fight either via numbers, gear, or level: most suck wind at it.

I then read the patch notes: "Tanks now take 25% more damage from other players." This is during a PvP patch cycle where Blizzard is talking about increasing TTK. I can't explain to you how fast my HP evaporated. I can try: at one point, I lost 75% of my HP during a Hammer of Justice Stun. That's like 3-4 GCDs.

I might as well have been a clothy face tanking a Fury Warrior with all CDs up. Also, sidenote: Ignore Pain seems to not even work in PvP right now. Though, that's a "bug." But it also means Blizzard was messing with that as well.

And it's not going to be too long before other DPS figure this shit out and we go right back Tanks being free-HKs. The only saving grace is Vengeance mobility: I can run like a bitch. So can any other Tank spec I run except Blood DK.

I can't count the number of classes and specs that have sat at "Immortal killing machine" levels during entire expansions because "we don't want to mess with the meta this close to X." But tanks become even the slightest bit overtuned in PvP and you can't last (what?) 3 weeks like that. And Blizzard tunes that with a nerfbat made of Dark Matter. It's fucking amazing how wild such a large and supposedly competent company swings that fucking thing around at classes/specs they don't give fucks about.

Honestly, being stuck on a PvP server, knowing what's coming, and hating most the other shitty specs I run (at least for questing): I'd straight up fucking quit if Rob hadn't just got back into the game. The wannabe PvPers in this game are such fucking crybabies. For the record, while not the only reason I quit at the time (there were many): logging into my Frost DK and going from "fairly overtuned" to "Free-HK in the world, Necrotic Strike Bot in Instanced PvP" during a single patch is why I finally quit in Cata.

[Lord Revan]

I must say that while I don't like the grinding aspect of it. the Nightfallen storyline in Surumar has been good so far. I'm not gonna post spoilers but it's nice taking the "undesirebles" from Surumar and essentially giving the middle finger to Elisande and the Nightborne nobility, while I dunno if it's intentional or not, it's nice to show the Duskwatch that us "lowborn" are much better at fighting then them as we fought our enemies instead of cowering inside a shield and surrendering when said shield came down to quote the demon hunters "I've sacrificed everything, what have you given!".

[TheFeniX]

I'll soon be joining you in Frost DKness, Fenix. The movie was just released on DVD here in Australia, and it came with the same free WoW offer as watching in cinemas. I tried DK out on PTR before Legion, and Frost definitely feels the most thematically appropriate: the Alliance should only have accepted you back because you're showing remorse for what you were forced to do under Arthas's thrall so ix-nay on the ombies-zay.

I totally didn't see your post. Welcome to Hell Grumman. Frost DK is in an unbelievably shitty state, I honestly don't know how Blizzard does it. They have refined "make shit suck" into an art form. It's been bad before. I've been there for almost all the bad. This amount of bad defies all logic. It's so much bad packed into a single area, it has an Event Horizon.

I could rant at length, but it all comes down to Blizzard finally winning out and making Frost use Obliterate: a stupid ability I never liked, even back when 2h Frost was a thing. It's our big hitter that doesn't benefit from our Mastery. Sidenote, this is also why Retribution is going to scale just as poorly this expansion: poor mastery scaling. Warlocks actually have it the worst. But fuck Warlocks and their bullshit during MoP.

Pally and DK usually get HUGE pre-expansion buffs. Cata, MoP, and (from what I've heard) WoD. A big complaint nearly every expansion is "Ret/DK is too strong! Look at those sim numbers! NERF NERF NERF!" This is due to Blizzard knowing how badly they will scale at max level and when the gear treadmill dials up to 11 (opposite for Warriors who start off weak then go all ROFLSTOMP!). So they buff them up early.

However, this time around: Ret and Frost DK are bottom-tier at Legion launch... garbage tier... actually, more "Dumpster Fire" tier. Since I don't recall either becoming stronger as an expansion progress, it's going to be ROUGH. And Blizzard refuses to back down on their Class Fantasy of "Frost DKs must be idiot proof and do shit damage," so unless Mastery scaling turns FrostScythe into HowlingBlarg 2.0: Frost is going to be an instant "decline" for any group content as this expansion progresses.

Or you could pray for raid bosses with lot of trash to burn.

[White Haven]

So this is cute. Either someone found an exploit or Blizzard turned on CRZ for the Broken Isles, because there's an enormous torrent of Cho'Gall imports ganking out in the world all of a sudden. Man, Mannoroth produces enough home-grown assholes, and you Nazjatar fuckers already get to slip in your own. We don't need more!

Make Mannoroth great again. We're gonna build a wall and make Cho'Gall pay for it.

[White Haven]

GHETTO EDIT: Some further research indicates that this is a recurring issue after restarts, like the one this morning. So, yes a Blizzard problem, but at least historically not a lasting one. *rubs forehead*

[TheFeniX]

Leave it to a mannoroth guy to complain about seeing 1 of the 8 existing Nazjatar players.

[White Haven]

Pfft, Blood Furnace, buncha Johnny-come-lateleys. Mannoroth, son.

[TheFeniX]

Pfft, Blood Furnace, buncha Johnny-come-lateleys. Mannoroth, son.

Man, I couldn't even get my edit in fast enough.