Windows 10

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Windows 10

Post by TheFeniX » 2015-09-28 12:09am

So, anyone using this yet? I "had" to install it on my laptop after swapping the HDD for an SSD because a few employees (remote users) have purchased new PCs (or upgraded) with 10. Dealing with on-site BS of remote assistance is..... BS. So, I can just mirror their movements during troubleshooting. Anyways, I got another SSD for my gaming rig, moved some stuff around, and loaded W10 due primarily to the substantially better high-res and scaling support (as this was non-existent in W8).

Gotta say, two PCs running it and I'm not hating it. The ability to quickly move windows from my 4K monitor to my 1080p one, have it automatically resize, and keep working is a boon. Nice that when there's actual work to do, I don't have to shift down to 2K. It's not perfect but it works quite well. Some programs don't like it much, like VNC and (oddly) Remote Desktop. But these are just minor annoyances. Oh, and the font for Teamspeak 3 on my 1080p monitor looks like it's for someone who's legally blind. But it's just TS3. And my mouse cursor on my 1080p monitor is comically huge. Like I said, minor annoyances.

The start menu is what W8 (on a non-tablet) should have been in the first god-damned place. It just expands out and gives you the metro BS, which I actually (GASP) can use now because it doesn't close my desktop and bring up the metro only crap. Amazingly, now my problem is with our new 2012 Server, it had only the metro option bullshit and I don't want fuck with something that's working.

I followed instructions and disabled most all of the privacy shit. Maybe I didn't catch everything, so if MS wants to sell my data of me playing video games way to goddamned much, I'll just have to live. There's a few thing I have to hit with a hammer later on, but moving over my steam folders and all that jaz, I'm up gaming again in no time, only needed to install the redistributables for the games.

Like I said, not hating anything about it yet. So, even if MS is selling all our data to the highest bidder at least they are making the experience painless.

There is one thing: the network tab on the taskbar. In W8, you could click it, click your VPN connection, connect, and it closes. Same with disconnecting. In Windows 10..... it opens up a window. The Network and Internet Window..... You then have to click the VPN AGAIN, and click connect. Repeat to disconnect. What. the. fuck?

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Re: Windows 10

Post by bilateralrope » 2015-09-28 01:15am

Overall I like Windows 10. I've turned off the privacy problems.
I've only got some minor complaints with Windows 10 so far. Some I've found fixes for, others don't bother me enough that I'm willing to spend any more time looking.

- Last I checked Cortana wasn't enabled in New Zealand for some reason. Until someone tells me it's up, I'm not going to check it again.
- Windows 10 makes the title bar of all windows white. Here is a fix that matches them to the colour of the start bar.
- In both Windows 8 and 10 you can set the start bar to automatically change colour to match your wallpaper, which is nice if you've set Windows to rotate your wallpaper. I've found that Windows 8 was better at picking an appropriate colour than 10 is.
- By default files are deleted without any dialog to confirm that you really want to delete the file. As someone with a cat that occasionally walks on my keyboard, this is a problem. The setting to reactivate the confirmation box wasn't in the control panel, making the only setting that is easily changed that I had to use Google to find out where it was. Right click the recycle bin, select properties.
- Everything ran slow until the first real reboot. The only reason I bring this up is that the fast boot feature in Windows 8/10 means that telling the computer to shut down doesn't count as rebooting it. If a program wants a reboot, you have to tell Windows to restart. Or you could turn off fast boot and deal with slower boot times when you turn the computer on.

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Re: Windows 10

Post by atg » 2015-09-28 01:21am

Upgraded to Windows 10 on my Surface Pro 3 and gaming PC.

Gaming PC crawled to a halt performance wise after the upgrade - needed to do a fresh install afterward which is fairly painless using the new 'refresh' options.
Surface Pro 3 has issues whenever the auto-updating kicks off, lost display adaptors, start button not working, clock not working...

Aside from the updates issues both machines at the moment are running pretty well with 10 on them.
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Re: Windows 10

Post by Executor32 » 2015-09-28 04:58am

Regarding your Server 2012 machine, I'd suggest installing Classic Shell, or at least the Start Menu portion of it. While it adds a customizable Start Menu that takes over the Start button and Windows key, it also lists Modern apps and has a button to open the Start Screen if you really need to. Best of all, it's free.

Classic Shell has options for Windows Explorer and IE as well, but those I can take or leave.
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Re: Windows 10

Post by TheFeniX » 2015-09-28 11:15am

bilateralrope wrote:- By default files are deleted without any dialog to confirm that you really want to delete the file. As someone with a cat that occasionally walks on my keyboard, this is a problem. The setting to reactivate the confirmation box wasn't in the control panel, making the only setting that is easily changed that I had to use Google to find out where it was. Right click the recycle bin, select properties.
Weird, mine was set to ask by default. Windows 8 had no dialog prompt though. Could be that I tried to install W10 first, realized I had no key and Windows won't take a W8 key. So I fresh installed W8 with no drivers, then upgraded to W10. Wanted to do a fresh install, but I've had no issues doing it this way.

You know, except on my laptop because the hybrid Intel > Nvidia setup has caused users 1000000000 issues and ASUS has no real fix for it. I got mine working, but only by using 1,000 Mjölnirs on it.
- Everything ran slow until the first real reboot. The only reason I bring this up is that the fast boot feature in Windows 8/10 means that telling the computer to shut down doesn't count as rebooting it. If a program wants a reboot, you have to tell Windows to restart. Or you could turn off fast boot and deal with slower boot times when you turn the computer on.
I've had nothing but bad luck with the "Windows doesn't really shut down" bullshit added with W8. There really needs to be a "yes, really shut this piece of shit down" option, but this whole UEFI thing, while great, can be a huge pain in the ass.

I believe it's one of the main problems with the Hybrid Video Card setups on the ASUS laptop I have. Since the battery isn't accessible, you have to disable fast boot and power down without any A/C power to even attempt a full power down.
atg wrote:Gaming PC crawled to a halt performance wise after the upgrade - needed to do a fresh install afterward which is fairly painless using the new 'refresh' options.
Surface Pro 3 has issues whenever the auto-updating kicks off, lost display adaptors, start button not working, clock not working...
How old was your install? I've got another PC I want to upgrade (W7) for a Steam box/media center for my TV (Xbone sucks) and I don't want to format. I figured I'd have to, but as the install is 3+ years old, I wanted to see how a straight upgrade would handle.

I wonder: Can I still use my old Windows keys for other things? I've got some old PCs laying around the office with XP, but more than enough hardware to run W8 and W10, but had XP (HDDs toast). Wonder about just using my old keys. Guess it wouldn't hurt to try.
Executor32 wrote:Regarding your Server 2012 machine, I'd suggest installing Classic Shell, or at least the Start Menu portion of it. While it adds a customizable Start Menu that takes over the Start button and Windows key, it also lists Modern apps and has a button to open the Start Screen if you really need to. Best of all, it's free.
I'm always adverse to loading QoL programs on a Server. Even though this will just be a backup server, I'd rather deal with some annoyances than load even lightweight UI improvements, provided my current UI functions. Server 2012's GUI functions, it's just an annoying step back from 2008. At the least, I can put all my consoles on the taskbar and/or desktop, so not having an actual start menu isn't as terrible as it is on a client desktop when I have 100 different programs I'll be using.

Also, when my W8 install started to get wonky, Classicshell was the first thing to bug out. It's one of the reasons I wanted to upgrade to 10: I shouldn't have to load third-party GUI improvements in 2015 to have a functional UI.

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Re: Windows 10

Post by TheFeniX » 2015-09-28 11:32am

Ghetto edit: What am I on about? I've been elbow deep in computer parts way too much lately. Our 2012 Server is our production server, not the backup. I'm not touching it with anything like ClassicShell. I was adverse to loading Openmanage, but I wanted access to the RAID array information and health (ok, I needed, not "wanted").

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Re: Windows 10

Post by Borgholio » 2015-09-28 01:02pm

Been using Windows 10 on three desktops and one laptop - no major hiccups aside from the occasional driver issue. I find it's faster than Win 7, I too am using the Metro interface more now that it doesn't hijack the whole screen, and the UI actually looks sleek overall. No complaints here.
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Re: Windows 10

Post by Executor32 » 2015-09-29 03:02pm

I've been using it as my daily driver on my home machine since they started testing the in-place upgrade through Windows Update, back in February or so. First as an upgrade from my Windows 7 install, then as a fresh install after I got my SSD in May. In all that time I've actually had very few issues, and most of those were fixed with later builds. Really, the only complaint I have now is that there's still no way to adjust the sort order of the Start Menu, so I'm stuck the new default of 'folders all mixed up with shortcuts alphabetically'. Why they couldn't list folders first like they've done since, oh, Win95 is beyond me.
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Re: Windows 10

Post by bilateralrope » 2015-09-29 07:49pm

TheFeniX wrote:I've had nothing but bad luck with the "Windows doesn't really shut down" bullshit added with W8. There really needs to be a "yes, really shut this piece of shit down" option, but this whole UEFI thing, while great, can be a huge pain in the ass.
How to Do a Full Shutdown in Windows 8 Without Disabling Hybrid Boot. I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work in Windows 10 but, as I don't have any trouble with the fast boot, I'm not planning to try it myself.

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Re: Windows 10

Post by Enigma » 2015-09-30 07:27am

Haven't had any hiccups upgrading to 10. Never had to do a fresh install since I built this computer almost three years ago. Started with 7 then upgraded to 8 then 8.1 then to 10.

The only hiccup afterwards was when I swapped vid cards.

As for privacy issues, I used DoNotSpy10. Checked off what I don't want Windows to do and that was it. :)
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Re: Windows 10

Post by TheFeniX » 2015-09-30 04:00pm

bilateralrope wrote:How to Do a Full Shutdown in Windows 8 Without Disabling Hybrid Boot. I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work in Windows 10 but, as I don't have any trouble with the fast boot, I'm not planning to try it myself.
Hilarious. I've used the shutdown command before to force an actual shutdown. I just never though to put it in a shortcut... because I'm dumb.

Man, I can't get over how this UI scaling should have been a thing since... forever. I'm working from home today and can just throw spreadsheets and word documents across screens, going from 4K to 1080p and back, with zero issue. The only thing they need now is the ability to scale your screens. Like.... both monitors are the same size, I should be able to go from the top of one to the top of the other. Same thing for the bottom. I still have to move my mouse to the center of my 4K to get over to my 1080p. Just a small annoyance, but it shouldn't be rocket science to implement.

Groove music player is pretty garbage though. Sad day when I'm rooting for WMP. The UI just doesn't like to register clicks. Then again, few players let you browser by folder, so they're all mostly garbage.

EDIT: I'm giving it a fair try though. Just clicked to play a song in my playlist..... and it removed the song instead. Quality.

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Re: Windows 10

Post by TheFeniX » 2015-10-01 12:38am

A bit of a ghetto edit, Windows 8, DX11, running FFXIV at 4k with two-slied GTX970s, overclocked by 150Mhz, lead to FFXIV keeping 60FPS most times, but dropping into the mid-40s during large engagements.

Same setup, overclocking off, Windows 10: I haven't dropped below 60FPS in an area yet. I need to do some more testing, but I don't run a whole lot of content right now as I find myself bored with the game lately.

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Re: Windows 10

Post by phongn » 2015-10-01 02:57pm

Runs fine on my old Core 2 Quad; no real issues.
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Re: Windows 10

Post by Bernkastel » 2015-10-02 11:22am

It's good to see that it seems to be generally fine, even if I can't yet install it myself yet for some reason. To be clear, the Get Windows 10 PC check says there are no problems with compatibility.
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Re: Windows 10

Post by Ace Pace » 2015-10-02 11:28am

Bernkastel wrote:It's good to see that it seems to be generally fine, even if I can't yet install it myself yet for some reason. To be clear, the Get Windows 10 PC check says there are no problems with compatibility.
You can manually download the upgrade tool, which is what I did.
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Re: Windows 10

Post by Borgholio » 2015-10-02 01:52pm

Ace Pace wrote:
Bernkastel wrote:It's good to see that it seems to be generally fine, even if I can't yet install it myself yet for some reason. To be clear, the Get Windows 10 PC check says there are no problems with compatibility.
You can manually download the upgrade tool, which is what I did.
Ditto. Only one computer out of 4 gave me the upgrade with no issues. The rest were waiting for "various compatibility issues" to be resolved. After a month of waiting I just downloaded the offline installer and boom.
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Re: Windows 10

Post by Ace Pace » 2015-10-02 02:50pm

Borgholio wrote:
Ace Pace wrote:
Bernkastel wrote:It's good to see that it seems to be generally fine, even if I can't yet install it myself yet for some reason. To be clear, the Get Windows 10 PC check says there are no problems with compatibility.
You can manually download the upgrade tool, which is what I did.
Ditto. Only one computer out of 4 gave me the upgrade with no issues. The rest were waiting for "various compatibility issues" to be resolved. After a month of waiting I just downloaded the offline installer and boom.
To be fair there are compatability issues floating around, esspecially in the upgrade path compared to clean install. Different applications that don't react well to the Windows version being switched right under them.
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Re: Windows 10

Post by bilateralrope » 2015-10-02 03:31pm

One warning about Windows 10:
Go to Start > Settings > Update and Security > Windows Update > Advanced Options > Choose how updates are delivered.

If you have update from more than only place on and set to "PCs on my local network and PCs on the Internet" this will increase how much bandwidth you use because you'll be uploading the update files to other people after you get them. Increasing how much bandwidth consumers use to decrease bandwidth use on MS servers. This was the default setting.
Setting it to PCs on your local network will reduce your bandwidth use.

If you don't have a monthly cap you might not care. Though the FAQ makes it sound like a Peer to Peer file transfer, which might trip something at your ISP.

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Re: Windows 10

Post by Terralthra » 2015-10-02 03:47pm

I wish Scalable Fabric had come along 5-7 years later. It's perfect for tablets and touchpad-driven computers, but at the time it was developed, tablets were stylus-driven devices (like my beloved TC-1100) that never really took off. It'd be interesting to see MS apply Scalable Fabric to the Surface devices.

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Re: Windows 10

Post by Ace Pace » 2015-10-02 04:20pm

bilateralrope wrote:One warning about Windows 10:
Go to Start > Settings > Update and Security > Windows Update > Advanced Options > Choose how updates are delivered.

If you have update from more than only place on and set to "PCs on my local network and PCs on the Internet" this will increase how much bandwidth you use because you'll be uploading the update files to other people after you get them. Increasing how much bandwidth consumers use to decrease bandwidth use on MS servers. This was the default setting.
Setting it to PCs on your local network will reduce your bandwidth use.

If you don't have a monthly cap you might not care. Though the FAQ makes it sound like a Peer to Peer file transfer, which might trip something at your ISP.
Come on, I'll devil advocate this.

1) This is probably using BITS, meaning it won't have any meaningful impact on your internet experience.
2) IF you have a download cap, meaning a metered connection, this is turned off. This is documented.
3) I don't understand your fear from your ISP, this isn't some mega obfuscated traffic, this is a fucking well documented protocol going out to the internet. If you can't upload torrent traffic, this will probably also not work (and then no issues) and if your ISP doesn't block torrent traffic, it won't worry about this.

I don't understand this gigantic fear of everything new a computer does.
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Re: Windows 10

Post by bilateralrope » 2015-10-02 04:44pm

Ace Pace wrote:Come on, I'll devil advocate this.

1) This is probably using BITS, meaning it won't have any meaningful impact on your internet experience.
I'll accept that it won't cause any issues with how you use the internet beyond the bandwidth it uses. Because I never claimed any differently.
2) IF you have a download cap, meaning a metered connection, this is turned off. This is documented.
How exactly is the metered connection detected ?
My ISP offers broadband plans with and without a monthly cap. Can Windows tell the difference between them ?
I'm assuming no until I see proof otherwise.

I also saw this in the FAQ:
Will Delivery Optimization download over metered connections?
Delivery Optimization won’t automatically download or send parts of updates or apps to other PCs on the Internet if it detects that you're using a metered connection.

If you use a Wi‑Fi connection that is metered or capped, make sure you identify it as a metered connection. Here’s how:

Go to Start Start button icon, then Settings > Network & Internet > Wi‑Fi > Advanced options.
Use the toggle under Set as metered connection to set your Wi‑Fi connection as metered.
Which tells me that Windows is assuming that a Wi-Fi connection is unmetered with no way to detect if that is true or not.
3) I don't understand your fear from your ISP, this isn't some mega obfuscated traffic, this is a fucking well documented protocol going out to the internet. If you can't upload torrent traffic, this will probably also not work (and then no issues) and if your ISP doesn't block torrent traffic, it won't worry about this.
My ISP has three levels of priority for traffic:
- First priority is for connections on plans with a monthly cap.
- Second priority is for connections on an unlimited plan.
- Third priority is for connections on unlimited plans that are using peer to peer software at that moment in time.

This means that if I'm using P2P software and my ISP doesn't have enough capacity for everyone, it interferes with everything I'm doing online. Though it's been years since that happened without a hardware fault at the ISP.
I don't understand this gigantic fear of everything new a computer does.
It's not really a fear. Just making sure people are aware of a setting that they should think about.

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Re: Windows 10

Post by TheFeniX » 2015-10-06 04:44pm

Windows 8 (and now 10) are just funky when it comes to multiple monitors. Maybe it has something to do with my 970 (both single and dual setup), but the desktop just has weird "glitches" that were never an issue in Windows 7. In fact, I work with my W7 workstation (dual monitors) all the time and I just never have the issues I have with W8 and now 10. I thought the problem was ClassicShell, but it obviously was not.

My monitors may "wink out" sometimes and shuffle resolutions, then come back with no problems. It may also "shut off" the second monitor long enough to move all my windows back to my main monitor. It is almost guaranteed to do this if my PC goes into sleep mode. The driver isn't crashing and I get no error reports. It's not a major issue, it's just really damned annoying taking a step back like that. I was so spoiled by the rock solid desktop of W7.

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Re: Windows 10

Post by Bernkastel » 2015-10-08 06:30am

I got my computer to download Windows 10 last weekend. However, for three days, I've now had the problem of the start menu and toolbar not working properly.
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Re: Windows 10

Post by Mr Bean » 2015-10-08 10:32am

TheFeniX wrote:Windows 8 (and now 10) are just funky when it comes to multiple monitors. Maybe it has something to do with my 970 (both single and dual setup), but the desktop just has weird "glitches" that were never an issue in Windows 7. In fact, I work with my W7 workstation (dual monitors) all the time and I just never have the issues I have with W8 and now 10. I thought the problem was ClassicShell, but it obviously was not.

My monitors may "wink out" sometimes and shuffle resolutions, then come back with no problems. It may also "shut off" the second monitor long enough to move all my windows back to my main monitor. It is almost guaranteed to do this if my PC goes into sleep mode. The driver isn't crashing and I get no error reports. It's not a major issue, it's just really damned annoying taking a step back like that. I was so spoiled by the rock solid desktop of W7.
What card what driver set, because dealing with about 300 multi-monitor computers of various makes and models the nice way Windows 10 handles multi-monitors was a selling point on the free upgrade.

But that DOES sound like a possible memory corruption issue, in fact it sounds spooky like the behavior of a Geforce 750 that was our test card for awhile then fell six feet onto concrete and suddenly started exhibiting those symptoms (The board pinged floor screw driver and one of the memory chips was remarkably scuffed)

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Re: Windows 10

Post by TheFeniX » 2015-10-08 11:08am

1 MSI GTX970 and now 2 SLIed MSI GTX970s. Current driver revision. Even reinstalled after complete driver removal. Video cards survived an hour long stress test with no issues and I've never had issues with any of the VRAM, but I haven't extensively tested it, only had games eat up all 4GBs, though I haven't tested >4GB memory usage since SLIing it. It's just a random and relatively rare problem. Like, finishing up Undertale last night (need mad horsepower for that, right?) and going to shut down, my Start bar was black and empty except my shutdown box and like 1 or 2 "App boxes." Probably Flowey fucking with my Windows. That said, this is mostly an issue I've noticed after dealing with full-screen games. Borderless Windowed games don't seem to fuck my monitors and/or desktop up.

If I had ANY issues anywhere else, I'd look to hardware. But the only driver fault I've ever had was when I tried overclocking the GPUs too much and Windows (8.1) stopped my card from exploding. But even after that, I've had zero issues actually using the cards. That said, Nvidia has been putting out some cut-rate driver releases lately. Only thing I can figure is that with all the OS updates and new games coming out in 2015, their coding team just can't get their releases as stable as they used to be.

Windows 10 continues to be a bane for VPN users. You can't put IP addresses in trusted locations in Office2010. So, VPNing to my 10.x.x.x\workdrive means I had to enable content on every document. Annoying. So, I'll just map to SERVERNAME\workfolder. Oh wait.... Why can't I:
A. Resolve DNS names?
B. Set a fucking DNS server on my VPN?
C. Manually set a DNS server through powershell AND the rpk file and have it function?

Because Microsoft hates me. I had to manually add our file server to my "hosts" file under System32. I haven't had to do that since...... what, like Windows 98? Was the VPN coding team working next to a gas leak? Amateur shit.

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